NationStates Jolt Archive

Gun Training Requirements
A resolution to tighten or relax gun control laws.


Category: Gun Control
Decision: Relax
Proposed by: Destroyoland

Description: It is statistically known that the majority of deaths by guns are accidental, and that the average person cannot use a sidearm any better than a teacher can use a bulldozer, so in this proposal i state the need for a solution to accidental gun violence. One solution would be to tighten gun laws, but that is the incorrect solution. With the lack of guns in existence the people without guns are at those with guns mercy. I, rather, say that use and safty of firearms should be taught in school, similar to the way math is taught. Over the years of their studies. Beggining with the safty of them and ending with the higher aiming and fully automatic weapon training. For this proposal i lay out an education plan for gun safty.
Ages:
3-5 = Children are taught basic safty with sidearms and have slight bit of introduction with them, to prevent couriosity leading to danger.
6-9 = Children learn basic shooting skills with small rifles and sidearms. In addition they learn gun and ammo upkeep.
10-12 = Youth are taught the use larger sidearms and rifles in addition to some sub-machine guns, in addition to honing previously taught skills.
13-15 = Youth are taught the use of higher caliber fully automatic and high power weapons and begin to learn how to repair guns in the feild.
15-18 = Teens complete their education in firearms and continue to hone their previously learned skills in addition to some self defense techniques with common objects.
With that plan (or a very similar one) i believe that the amount of accidental deaths due to firearms will greatly decrease in addition to the average person being able to defend themselves against terrorists and be more suited for the defense of freedom. In adition to the previously stated this plan would increase the un's military strength if a war, god forbid, were ever to come up.



sounds like a good idea, eh?

Capitalise your 'I's dear. Apart from that we don't think guns mix well with the Black New Worldian society. Too much apathy…

Edit: and considering that the technology of nations are at different levels, not to mention the physical and mental maturity of the citizens, we don't think it would be a good idea.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

So, you are proposing that the UN:


Give three-year-olds access to a potentially fatal piece of equipment, which they do not yet have the mental capacity to understand;
Teach 6-year-olds how to fire such weapons;
Give teenagers access to guns, in a society where we have enough school shootings already;
Instruct psycopaths how better to shoot innocent people, with deadlier weapons;
Give people with other mental disorders, such as bi-polar or anger mismanagement, access to guns;
And turn our entire population into a giant military. :sniper:


I think not. I do not want the whole of the Hersfoldian population running around with guns because my school system says they know how to use them. While my nation does put substantial funding into education, when it comes to guns, I don't trust anyone. Also, why in heaven's name would anyone need to carry a gun with them 24-7? To defend against terrorists: Ok, so every racist bigot starts shooting randomly at Islamic people.* For self-defence - chances are, if someone educated in gun useage is shooting at you, it's too late to worry about that! This plan is, in my eyes, completely ridiculous and entirely dangerous for our world. Should this even be submitted, I will strongly oppose it.

*Edit: I just want to add that I have nothing against the Islamic people - however, due to the recent sweep of Al-Queda terrorist attacks, some people are, and that was the best example I could think of for that. My deepest apologies if anyone was offended by that part of the post.

The nation of Aliana applauds your efforts to educate your public, but we do not feel such intense education is needed. A single class or two to teach children the dangers of gun use may be helpful, but your proposed methods are as likely to cause more shootings as they are likely to stop accidental deaths.

We believe further study is necessary before such a drastic initiative is put forth in the United Nations.

The DRA will not support any initiative teaching children how to use firearms. In addition it also promotes teaching children how to use assualt weapons which the DRA believes should be banned except for military purposes. The DRA is a nation which bans gun ownership and will not support any initiative forcing the government to teach minors who have neither the maturity or the completely knowledge necessary to operate a firearm safely and know the serious dangers and risks they pose. This resolution will not get the DRA's endorsement.

Gun Training Requirements
A resolution to tighten or relax gun control laws.


Category: Gun Control
Decision: Relax
Proposed by: Destroyoland

Description: It is statistically known that the majority of deaths by guns are accidental, and that the average person cannot use a sidearm any better than a teacher can use a bulldozer, so in this proposal i state the need for a solution to accidental gun violence. One solution would be to tighten gun laws, but that is the incorrect solution. With the lack of guns in existence the people without guns are at those with guns mercy. I, rather, say that use and safty of firearms should be taught in school, similar to the way math is taught. Over the years of their studies. Beggining with the safty of them and ending with the higher aiming and fully automatic weapon training. For this proposal i lay out an education plan for gun safty.
Ages:
3-5 = Children are taught basic safty with sidearms and have slight bit of introduction with them, to prevent couriosity leading to danger.
6-9 = Children learn basic shooting skills with small rifles and sidearms. In addition they learn gun and ammo upkeep.
10-12 = Youth are taught the use larger sidearms and rifles in addition to some sub-machine guns, in addition to honing previously taught skills.
13-15 = Youth are taught the use of higher caliber fully automatic and high power weapons and begin to learn how to repair guns in the feild.
15-18 = Teens complete their education in firearms and continue to hone their previously learned skills in addition to some self defense techniques with common objects.
With that plan (or a very similar one) i believe that the amount of accidental deaths due to firearms will greatly decrease in addition to the average person being able to defend themselves against terrorists and be more suited for the defense of freedom. In adition to the previously stated this plan would increase the un's military strength if a war, god forbid, were ever to come up.



sounds like a good idea, eh?

Yes, it does. I advocate education as a primary means of preventing crime of all types, including gun-related crimes. In my own nation, gun education is part of public education, though not on the same timetable as yours. However...

National Sovereignty: It's Like That "Tolerance" Crap on a National Level

sounds like a good idea, eh?

No. My nation is (at the time of posting) gun free, and to introduce this would take us in to a whole world of pain that I am not willing to put my people through.

"Maybe if we taught kids to shoot guns, there'd be less shootings in this country!"

"Maybe if we taught kids to shoot guns, there'd be less shootings in this country!"

Stop oversimplifying a complex issue.

If we teach kids how dangerous guns are by demonstrating their power on a shooting range, and if we teach kids how to use guns appropriately, then yes, there might very well be less shootings. People are always going to have weapons of some kind Kelssek. I'd rather they have knowledge of them and respect for them than have them ignorant and irreverant when they happen upon a weapon. Education saves lives. Role models demonstrating the appropriate uses of weapons while discouraging inappropriate uses of weapons saves lives. Teaching fear and ignorance does not.

Before I started training in martial arts, I was irreverant and ignorant, a danger to myself and others. Now that I have alot of martial arts training, I can kill you with very little effort, but I never would, because learning the use of the human body fosters respect for the fragility of the body, the precious vessel that carries us through the ocean of life.

People are always going to have weapons of some kind Kelssek.

Well, some countries ban them outright. And since most gun crimes in Canada are committed with firearms smuggled from the US thanks to the guys who said, "let's enshrine the right of people to own weapons designed to kill people in our Constitution!", please understand my "fear" and "ignorance".

I'd rather they have knowledge of them and respect for them than have them ignorant and irreverant when they happen upon a weapon.

Yes, I think education is a good idea, but at age 3-5? Child psychologists say that at age, children don't fully understand the idea of death - including its irreversible nature, despite education or occurances (like a parent or someone close to them dying). I think that's WAY too early to be teaching them about guns.

Now that I have alot of martial arts training, I can kill you with very little effort

What, are you trying to scare me off from arguing more?

Well, some countries ban them outright. And since most gun crimes in Canada are committed with firearms smuggled from the US thanks to the guys who said, "let's enshrine the right of people to own weapons designed to kill people in our Constitution!", please understand my "fear" and "ignorance".

He said "weapons", not guns. Or have you banned pocket knives, hunting knives, steak knives, bows, crossbows, spears, javelins, baseball bats, cricket bats, fire hydrant wrenches, ropes, piano wire, shoe laces, leather thongs, keys, fire extinguishers, swords, machetes, scissors, pruning sheers, pillows, bricks, shovels, chainsaws, screwdrivers, hammers, hand saws, hack saws, back saws, drills, cinder blocks, vehicles, bicycles, radios, televisions, glass bottles, glass blocks, staplers...

...fists, feet...

...etc.

The point is, people will always find ways to kill each other, even if they use things that are not normally considered to be weapons. Just watch a slasher flick: someone's always getting killed by a table saw or something like that. Demonizing guns is the easy way out.

I've said this several times on these forums, and I'll say them again: banning guns does not necessarily reduce crime. Chicago, Illinois is a gun-free city. Ordinary civilians are not allowed to own a gun or transport a gun through the city. It's been this way for several years now. In 2002 and 2003, Chicago was the murder capital (per capita) in the entire United States.

I'm not saying that's conclusive, but it's something to at least ponder. Gun control is an exceptionally complex issue; it's not as simple as "ban guns, everyone happy".

Before I started training in martial arts, I was irreverant and ignorant, a danger to myself and others. Now that I have alot of martial arts training, I can kill you with very little effort, but I never would, because learning the use of the human body fosters respect for the fragility of the body, the precious vessel that carries us through the ocean of life.

I disagree. I would say that it has fostered the respect (etc) in you, but if you teach it to someone else they might just use the knowlege to go out and kill people with it.

The whole problems comes down to whether or not you have faith in the average person not to abuse the knowledge they have. You teach a kid to use a gun, they could grow up to be an assassin with the knowlege you gave them. Or they could understand guns are dangerous and should not be used.

I would rather err on the side of caution and assume everyone is in the first group, because it's a safer approach.

We previously pointed out that weapons to citizens are banned (apart from the police and military) in Telidia and therefore this ‘educational program’ will not fit in with our legislation. The fact also that the passing of this ban came with enormous public support I believe our government will be forced with an uphill battle to implement such legislation.

Telidian society seems to slowly be evolving away from a gun culture and since our own educational policies are beginning to do away with crime, I am cautious to place such a radical proposal before our parliament.

Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

Well, some countries ban them outright. And since most gun crimes in Canada are committed with firearms smuggled from the US thanks to the guys who said, "let's enshrine the right of people to own weapons designed to kill people in our Constitution!", please understand my "fear" and "ignorance".

Don't get all defensive and apply a statement about teaching kids to yourself. I won't follow your red herring.

Yes, I think education is a good idea, but at age 3-5? Child psychologists say that at age, children don't fully understand the idea of death - including its irreversible nature, despite education or occurances (like a parent or someone close to them dying). I think that's WAY too early to be teaching them about guns.

Agreed, and I even noted that I disagreed with the timeline the proposal author suggested in an earlier post.

What, are you trying to scare me off from arguing more?

No, don't be a jackass. I was pointing out that even though, due to my education and training, I am much more deadly, I am also much less likely to kill someone.

I disagree. I would say that it has fostered the respect (etc) in you, but if you teach it to someone else they might just use the knowlege to go out and kill people with it.

Perhaps, but extraordinarily unlikely. Limiting the freedoms of all for fear of a very few seems excessive to me, but you seem to approach issues from a very different philosophical perspective....

The whole problems comes down to whether or not you have faith in the average person not to abuse the knowledge they have. You teach a kid to use a gun, they could grow up to be an assassin with the knowlege you gave them. Or they could understand guns are dangerous and should not be used.

I have faith in the average person to accept appropriate conditioning and education.

I would rather err on the side of caution and assume everyone is in the first group, because it's a safer approach.

I err on the side of freedom, and you err on the side of caution. Ah, the primary difference between a conservative and a liberal. Out of curiousity, do you err on the side of caution on every issue or do you pick and choose like most people?

I err on the side of freedom, and you err on the side of caution. Ah, the primary difference between a conservative and a liberal. Out of curiousity, do you err on the side of caution on every issue or do you pick and choose like most people?

I err on the side of caution in everything I would not consider a fundemental right. So even though executing people is erring on the side of caution to ensure they don't kill again, I would never do it because I don't believe it is a suitable punishment. But trusting to the "sensibleness" of everyone who would hold a gun is something I would consider would put more lives in danger than if I don't trust to it.

And I really would consider myself liberal by the way, not a conservative. I just don't think that giving guns to kids and teaching them how to shoot is ever a good idea :}

Sighing, whatever next, nuclear armed foetuses....

Sighing, whatever next, nuclear armed foetuses....

You have spies in my nation!!! Damn you, you'll not get away with leaking state secrets...ahem. I mean, uh...I was just joking. There are no such things as nuclear armed foetuses. How silly of me, eh? *straightens tie*