NationStates Jolt Archive


A proposal concerning animals used in war

Randomea
23-10-2004, 06:37
Category: Moral Decency (I guess-does not really fit in any.)
Strength: Mild or significant?
Rights for Animals used in War
Animals have been an integral part of warfare for many civilisations, from the carrier pigeon, to the trusty warhorse and finally dogs and cats used recently.
It is my belief that many of these animals are mistreated in the time preceeding their deployment, and have detailed some basic rights, which they are due. If an animal can receive a medal it deserves the rights given any other member of the military.

Intelligence
Animals used in this sector include rodents, small lizards and birds.
Any implanted technology, ie. bugs, must be temporary. Any agent deserves retirement towards the end of their working life.

Transport
Any animals deployed in the field of battle deserve armour or some form of protection, including elephants, dragons, chariot and war-horses; oxen, asses and shirehorses to transport heavy weapons and groups of soldiers.
Some form of shelter should be provided for the 'beasts of burden' to protect them from the elements, and a groom should be assigned to no more than two animals. In cold weather hot water bottles or equivalent heating systems should be provided for the less hardy animals, especially elephants.
No animal should be abandoned, it takes only a minute to cut through traces with a sharp knife.

Weapons
Elephants and dragons are reguarly deployed as weapons in their own right. Rhinoceri, wild cats and dogs are also included. When Caesar said "Let slip the dogs of war!" did he consider the fact the dog may not want to attack and kill a human? If the animal appears disinclined to do so, it is not required to complete its task. Many countries have voluntary militaries, but no-one asks the animal. Over use can irreperably damage the beast, a dragon can not endlessly produce flames.

Mascots, Guards and Rescuers
Ships' cats, caged birds and other more unusual pets, such as monkeys, have kept the spirits up of many of the world's youth in times of war. In return they should be given suitable accommodation and food, and, in the event of abandoning camp/ship should not be left behind. Funerals should be carried out in the same manner as for human combatants. Guard dogs are often the last line of defense. They often take wounds, but when was the last time a vetenarian was included in the medical staff? Concerning medical aid, St.Bernards are famous for their deployment as first aid in the mountain rescue service. Do they deserve anything less in return?


Due to a connection curfew of midnight yesterday I have totally lost my thread, but I'll edit later when my brain hasn't been charged with caffeine and robotic engineering...or 'work out why a massive claw will not pick up balls without sticking into the carpet and how to fix it....oh dear now the sci-twine's broken...' when I say balls of course I mean um....grenades to hurl at the enemy in one go.
Vastiva
23-10-2004, 08:48
Uhm.... yeah.

How are animals supposed to vote?
Deutsch - Rheinland
23-10-2004, 12:16
Those are interesting thoughts. However, they go much too far, treating animals as humans. You should narrow it down to the banning of animals as suicide bombers (for example, dolphins can't be equipped with bombs to blow up enemy ships and themselves).
Supersillious
23-10-2004, 13:08
Well in my opinion I believe that the animals should be treated as humanely as possible. I don't know about treating them completely like humans, but I like the idea of not using them as bombers. I really don't agree with that at all. I would hate to send an animal for the sole purpose of dying.


God Bless
Erica
Democratic-Midgar
23-10-2004, 16:44
I do not think that it is right for animals to be used for any military application. Animals do not have the privilege to say whether they wish to be used in these circumstances. Perhaps a proposal should be made making it illegal for any Nation whitin the United Nations power to use any animal that is not of the same species which has caused the war as a weapon, mode of transport, intelligence or guards in a war. However I am unsure how we should treat animals as Mascots or Rescuers.

<BTW first post made by me. :)>
The Black New World
23-10-2004, 16:48
any animal as a weapon, mode of transport, intelligence or guards in a war.


Any animal?

Then what would we* use?

Oh and erm… welcome.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

*well not us but people who fight wars.
Democratic-Midgar
23-10-2004, 17:03
Any animal?

Then what would we* use?
*well not us but people who fight wars.
Very well, any animal excluding Humans.

Edit: Now defined as any animal that is not of the same species which has caused the war
Randomea
23-10-2004, 17:04
Some people rp with a medieval time zone. Horses would be the main mode of transport all the way up until the 20th Century.
I'll add the bomber bit.
Voting is not excatly a high priority in war time as you tend to get a non-changing war cabinet.
The Black New World
23-10-2004, 17:05
Very well, any animal excluding Humans.

Well I'm afraid that's speciesist

Edit: and on a more serious note not all UN countries are populated by humans.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Onion Pirates
23-10-2004, 18:02
Arrr, all our chipmunk grenadiers are volunteers, they signed away thar right wi' a fully legal and binding contract.

Bugger orf.
Randomea
23-10-2004, 18:16
Now ye goddam swab, ah think ye gotta learn yeself some manners, ah dohn gonna write stuff for ye only, take a sweep o' ye glass around ye, there may be no law'pon ye seas but there be law'pon the land. An' ye lubber ye never asked ye parrot did ye? And ah never sais ah gonna ban ye chipmunks, naw just ye gi' them the same rights as ye other brethren, if they gonna be dancin' at yonder yardarm as any other brethren would if he is caught. Ye learned that sir, or shall I show ye what ah mean?
Bahgum
23-10-2004, 22:46
Bahgum would support a suitably reworded proposal, that realises that there are limits on treating animals as humans. Our interests in pigeon and whippet keeping would benefit from this.
Vastiva
24-10-2004, 06:23
.. then there's the dragon riders... and a nation which uses penguins as shock troops... how about centaurs, do they get half protection? Which half?
Randomea
24-10-2004, 07:09
Dragons were already included.
Centuars, well the man part would presumably already be protected, so it's adding protection for its lower half.
For every penguin it would require, within reason everything a footsoldier would: a healthy ration of food, a bed of some description, health care, armour. Black and white is a little obvious in the desert or a grassy field, so camouflage penguin suits would be deemed necessary for the safety of the penguin.
Vastiva
24-10-2004, 10:32
Dragons were already included.
Centuars, well the man part would presumably already be protected, so it's adding protection for its lower half.
For every penguin it would require, within reason everything a footsoldier would: a healthy ration of food, a bed of some description, health care, armour. Black and white is a little obvious in the desert or a grassy field, so camouflage penguin suits would be deemed necessary for the safety of the penguin.

You do realize how beyond ridiculous this proposal has gotten?

Might I suggest you regroup, consider what you're after, and rephrase the proposal accordingly?
The Black New World
24-10-2004, 10:36
Keep in mind that not all nations contain humans.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Onion Pirates
25-10-2004, 02:17
Now ye goddam swab, ah think ye gotta learn yeself some manners, ah dohn gonna write stuff for ye only, take a sweep o' ye glass around ye, there may be no law'pon ye seas but there be law'pon the land. An' ye lubber ye never asked ye parrot did ye? And ah never sais ah gonna ban ye chipmunks, naw just ye gi' them the same rights as ye other brethren, if they gonna be dancin' at yonder yardarm as any other brethren would if he is caught. Ye learned that sir, or shall I show ye what ah mean?

same rights, eh?

suits us, matey.

they's all freely arm-twisted volunteers, even in tha galleys.
("shaddap down thar!")
the wee grenadiers even mutinied when they got no grog, which we had to admit is the right o' every son o' the sea.
Randomea
26-10-2004, 04:22
You do realize how beyond ridiculous this proposal has gotten?

Might I suggest you regroup, consider what you're after, and rephrase the proposal accordingly?

Ask a silly question...

I just thought a slightly tongue in cheek proposal would be good, it's not totally batty it's just um...well Random. There was a reason my nickname in *cough*rl*cough* is often 'Her Royal Randomness.' Unfortunately 'Random' had already gone as a country.
As I said unfinished, and as my parents are visiting me State-side I'm not going to have an opportunity this week. Stay tuned to Randomea Government News Network.
RomeW
26-10-2004, 22:49
If I could make an offhand comment, I think a fair bit of this proposal is redundant. Obviously, if any army wants to make good use of its animals it DOES have to feed them and properly accomodate them, just like humans. It wouldn't make any logical sense for an army (for example) to have penguin foot soldiers then not feed them- they'd all die off and the army would lose a significant part of its attack force. I am for not allowing animals to be used as bombers though.
Vastiva
27-10-2004, 06:33
If I could make an offhand comment, I think a fair bit of this proposal is redundant. Obviously, if any army wants to make good use of its animals it DOES have to feed them and properly accomodate them, just like humans. It wouldn't make any logical sense for an army (for example) to have penguin foot soldiers then not feed them- they'd all die off and the army would lose a significant part of its attack force. I am for not allowing animals to be used as bombers though.

Ever see what a skunk can do to a foxhole?
RomeW
27-10-2004, 09:50
Ever see what a skunk can do to a foxhole?

Oh...

I see. Well, that's just stinky and doesn't really cause any physical harm.
Onion Pirates
27-10-2004, 22:28
Oh...

I see. Well, that's just stinky and doesn't really cause any physical harm.

Kinda like Nation States?
RomeW
28-10-2004, 07:20
Kinda like Nation States?

Heheh...although I don't recall a stench coming from NS...unless there's a place I should know about.