NationStates Jolt Archive

Crime is becoming a bigger and bigger problem every day, and it isn't just daily crime, but international organised crime kills thousands of people each year, and results in the stealing of millions of Posulian Pounds (put that into your own currency) of goods every year. Many criminals of this kind escape being caught by hiding in other countries where they are not known. A way of stopping this would be the creatation of an International Database of Crime. This would involve all UN nations collecting all their files of criminals that they have in one place, so that criminals can be identified and brought to justice if they are hiding in other countries that are UN members.

There would be limits on who can see this data:

1) All people that are on this database will be allowed to see their own file.

2) Employers will not be allowed to check up on their workers by using this database.

3) Only the following may see the files: Government Officals, Police and Immigration departments.

4) Any people that are found using this database when they are not allowed to will be prosecuted.


What do people think about this?

Crime is becoming a bigger and bigger problem every day, and it isn't just daily crime, but international organised crime kills thousands of people each year, and results in the stealing of millions of Posulian Pounds (put that into your own currency) of goods every year. Many criminals of this kind escape being caught by hiding in other countries where they are not known. A way of stopping this would be the creatation of an International Database of Crime. This would involve all UN nations collecting all their files of criminals that they have in one place, so that criminals can be identified and brought to justice if they are hiding in other countries that are UN members.

There would be limits on who can see this data:

1) All people that are on this database will be allowed to see their own file.

2) Employers will not be allowed to check up on their workers by using this database.

3) Only the following may see the files: Government Officals, Police and Immigration departments.

4) Any people that are found using this database when they are not allowed to will be prosecuted.


What do people think about this?

My first thing is with (1) and (3) seem to be contradictory, and (1) would allow the criminals to see their own files, which if it has a list of evidence and witnesses in could lead to bad things happening :}

And I am not sure if I want every government in the world knowing the business of my citizens. How much crime would be covered by this? Bank robbers? Speeding offences? People who shoplifted as kids? (This sounds sarcastic, but it really isn't - I do want to know!)

This would cover international terriorists, organised criminals (ie the mafia and the like), drug pushers and smuggles. Not your shop lifters and petty criminals, you can look after that yourself.

1) Says that yes even criminals can look at their files, but what can they do? Not alot is the answer, all it will have it a picture of them, age etc and their crimes! Big whop.

3) Well obviously police, government officals etc need to look at them, otherwise they will never be looked at except by the criminals and thats no good!

My first thing is with (1) and (3) seem to be contradictory, and (1) would allow the criminals to see their own files, which if it has a list of evidence and witnesses in could lead to bad things happening :}

And I am not sure if I want every government in the world knowing the business of my citizens. How much crime would be covered by this? Bank robbers? Speeding offences? People who shoplifted as kids? (This sounds sarcastic, but it really isn't - I do want to know!)

One looks at their file (singular) the others can look at all files (plural). I'm not as worried about the differences between clause 1 and 3.

My government feels that there should be some sharing of information between governments.

This "fictional" web site is worth looking at briefly:
http://www.interpol.int/

Well I am welcome to any changes that people may like, so if you have any ideas for how to make it better, please just let me know.

Drugs are legal in my state, though. Would my citizens become criminals the second they left my country? Or would it only apply if they broke this law while on foreign soil?

This would only apply if they broke laws on your soil. Otherwise they wouldn't have a criminal record would they?

Interesting stuff, Posul. I've taken the liberty of restructuring this into resolution form, with one minor addition regarding participation, which is in bold :

Let it be NOTED, that crime, on both the domestic and international levels, is becoming a bigger and bigger problem every day.

It is also NOTED that international organised crime kills thousands of people each year, resulting in the theft of large valuable sums of currency and goods annually.

The United Nations is regretfully AWARE that many international criminals are able to escape arrest by hiding in other countries where they are not known.

Therefore, let it be RESOLVED that the member states of the United Nations will join in the creation of an International Database of Crime (IDC). The IDC will be a collection files, containing information about criminals in a member state. The purpose of the IDC is for the identification and extradition of criminals hiding in other UN member states.

Let be further RESOLVED that the IDC would operate under the following rules:

1) It shall be the responsibility to provide the necessary information to the IDC, but the state shall have the discrection to determine what qualifies an individual for the database.

2) All people that are listed on this database will have the right to see their own file, should they request the privilige.

3) Otherwise, the information in the IDC database may only be accessed by the following individuals in participating states: Government Officals, Police and Immigration departments.

4) Any unauthorized persons that illegally access this database shall be prosecuted by their member state.





Hope this helps you with furthering your proposal.

This would cover international terriorists, organised criminals (ie the mafia and the like), drug pushers and smuggles. Not your shop lifters and petty criminals, you can look after that yourself.

1) Says that yes even criminals can look at their files, but what can they do? Not alot is the answer, all it will have it a picture of them, age etc and their crimes! Big whop.

3) Well obviously police, government officals etc need to look at them, otherwise they will never be looked at except by the criminals and thats no good!

So is this is a database of crimes that someone has been convicted for, or crimes that people are suspected of?

And what about witnesses? If someone testifies on a condition of anonymity, would their name be excluded from the file?

I would like a clearer definition of what would be held in this database - the information held against the criminals, if it expires at any point and so forth.

Plus - and this might require someone other than me to weigh in on the debate - but setting up the database would not, in and of itself, allow criminals to be found in another country and brought to justice. Are there any resolutions that relate to extradition in the UN?

Numbered to make response easier:
1)So is this is a database of crimes that someone has been convicted for, or crimes that people are suspected of?

2)And what about witnesses? If someone testifies on a condition of anonymity, would their name be excluded from the file?

3)I would like a clearer definition of what would be held in this database - the information held against the criminals, if it expires at any point and so forth.

4)Plus - and this might require someone other than me to weigh in on the debate - but setting up the database would not, in and of itself, allow criminals to be found in another country and brought to justice. Are there any resolutions that relate to extradition in the UN?

1) I don't know what Posul thinks, but I'd advocate for it to be a mix of convicts, criminals on outstanding warrants, and possibly those with a suspicion of committing a major crime, but fleeing the country before capture. I'd see no reason to remove files, short of acquittal or death, but that's just me.

2&3) According to Posul's earlier response:
Says that yes even criminals can look at their files, but what can they do? Not alot is the answer, all it will have it a picture of them, age etc and their crimes! Big whop

From that, I'd think the file may be like this, with a picture of the subject:
Name
Vitals (Age, Height, Weight, Birthdate)
Notes of any distinguishing marks
Last Known Whereabouts
Criminal Record
Outstanding Warrants Issued
Biographical Notes
Who file was submitted by

Therefore, there's no concern as to crime information, as all witness names would be withheld. That could be obtained between authorities, in collaboration to capture/extradite the criminal.

4) Again, I can't speak for Posul, but I don't see a requirement for extradition in this resoulution, nor do I advocate one. However, having this information may make the extradition process between two nations go much easier. As for anything regarding extradition in past resolutions, I'm not sure if any exist.

This would only apply if they broke laws on your soil. Otherwise they wouldn't have a criminal record would they?

But this is a list of international criminal organizations. So while The Phubar Fighters might be outlawed in your nation, they are legal in mine. So would they appear in the database?

If they were legal in your area, then perhaps some sort of commission could be made up to see what should happen, and until that commission reaches a decision they should be detained in the nation they were found in. I also agree with what Legalese said about my posts earlier, and I accept his recommendations.

But this is a list of international criminal organizations. So while The Phubar Fighters might be outlawed in your nation, they are legal in mine. So would they appear in the database?


I don't see why not. Granted, you'd have no requirement to give information about them, nor to extradite them (under this proposal), but if they are wanted in a different participating nation for a major crime, then starting a file on them is something I'd see acceptable.

If they were legal in your area, then perhaps some sort of commission could be made up to see what should happen, and until that commission reaches a decision they should be detained in the nation they were found in. I also agree with what Legalese said about my posts earlier, and I accept his recommendations.

But now this idea appears to be straying in to the area of jurisdiction (if that is how it is spelt) - which is fine in and of itself, but if the proposal is going to impact on that area then the details need to be spelt out a bit more.

I am all for having an international database of criminals, although my worries over security of the system it is held on will probably come in to this debate at some point, not to mention where the central server would be (and can't you just tell I used to be in system administration before I became President!), but only for use of information. If the proposal intends to get in to the topic of what to do about the criminals, then I would need more information about the wording before I could vote for it.

This is getting well out of what I had in mind, i thought Legalese's proposal was a decent one.

However I would like to remember UN members that there are always going to be gaps in this proposal, as individual incidients will make sure of this. Therefore it is up to the judiciary of each country to make decisions on what is happening.

If we go into the area that TilEnca then I could be writting literally hundreds of pages on the subject, but to be quite honest it would a complete waste of time.

In each country it is up to the legislature and the executive to make laws and enforce them and the judiciary to interpert the constitutions of each country. Now if we wanted to go into boundries that would be impossible as each country has its own boundaries. Therefroe it is not my place or the UN's to make each proposa specfic. It is up to each executive to make such decisions.

Like like the President of TilEnca I worked in other departments. I was Minister of Adminstrative Affairs for 4 years and Minister for Constitutional Affairs and we had many problems involving security, and I found that it is impossible to cover all the bases, and a basic plan should just be laid out, with further amendments being made when the case arises as it would take me and many other people forever to do.

1) Participation is not mandatory, however only participating member states may access the IDC.
Legalese, you can't add this line. Any UN resolution is in fact mandatory, and must be observed by all nation.

It's one thing to create an IRCO with offices in all nations, and the individual nations could respond to international crises when they are able. It's a different breed of cat when you say that UN members can choose to opt out.

Sorry, fails the game mechanics test.

This is getting well out of what I had in mind, i thought Legalese's proposal was a decent one.

However I would like to remember UN members that there are always going to be gaps in this proposal, as individual incidients will make sure of this. Therefore it is up to the judiciary of each country to make decisions on what is happening.

If we go into the area that TilEnca then I could be writting literally hundreds of pages on the subject, but to be quite honest it would a complete waste of time.

In each country it is up to the legislature and the executive to make laws and enforce them and the judiciary to interpert the constitutions of each country. Now if we wanted to go into boundries that would be impossible as each country has its own boundaries. Therefroe it is not my place or the UN's to make each proposa specfic. It is up to each executive to make such decisions.

Like like the President of TilEnca I worked in other departments. I was Minister of Adminstrative Affairs for 4 years and Minister for Constitutional Affairs and we had many problems involving security, and I found that it is impossible to cover all the bases, and a basic plan should just be laid out, with further amendments being made when the case arises as it would take me and many other people forever to do.


Sorry - it was not my intention to torpedo the whole idea. I was just concerned about various things.

Would it be okay if I sent you an example of phrasing for this? Or put it within this thread? Cause I do believe the idea about an international criminal database has it's merits, but that the propsoal for it should not even mention anything that could relate to extradtion - because othewise pages on pages....

Legalese, you can't add this line. Any UN resolution is in fact mandatory, and must be observed by all nation.

It's one thing to create an IRCO with offices in all nations, and the individual nations could respond to international crises when they are able. It's a different breed of cat when you say that UN members can choose to opt out.

Sorry, fails the game mechanics test.

Modified, hopefully in a way that works. Let me know what you think.

I didn't mean to sound to harsh, as I said I welcome all input into this idea.

I didn't mean to sound to harsh, as I said I welcome all input into this idea.

And, if this was aimed at me, I didn't mean to imply you were :}

Posul,

I have sent a telegram to you outlining some random thoughts on the way the proposal could be put forward.

Tori.

I am just going to read it, think about it, and maybe I will use it.

Merridonia is currently waffling on the subject at hand, based on a couple of minor concerns of mine. (They're very nice waffles too. I shall have to recommend the Royal Baker be given a raise.)

1) What will happen should a nation find a foreign criminal hiding in their territory? How will we proceed after they are discovered and captured? Do be detailed.

2) Will our nation be asked to actively keep an eye out for these criminals, or will we simply have the ability to recognize and get ahold of them should they catch our attention? I do not intend to waste the energies of my law enforcement attempting to keep a Big Brother eye on the refuse of other lands once the database is up--I see no reason to punish my people for the inability of foreign nations to control theirs.

The Most Serene Republic of Merridonia does enjoy a relatively crime-free existence and would prefer to keep it that way if at all possible. I note that we are leaning towards supporting.

Recommending you all try the local population's maple syrup,
--Miss C. Merridew

Another proposal - the International Crime Prevention proposal (due to expire on October 12th) might also cover some of the aims of your proposal.