NationStates Jolt Archive

well. not much to say except please. [/shamelesspromoting] :)

well, not much to say except 'what?' [/wherestheproposal?]

Yeah Philo! Where's the proposal?

I'm going to say "No" just because the title already implies a great deal about the resolution itself.

I think that deffending it would only make us aprt of the problem and not the solution which is to. Either come to a compromise or fight untill victory is very clear.

We be in favor o' just war. That be what we're all about: just war, 24/7, nuthuin' else...well, grog, wenches, and an occasional hornypipe dance....

we are indeed a bit curious as to just how anyone WOULD define such a concept as a "just war".

as far as we're concerned the only 'just' use of military force would be to stop or prevent a genuinely independently observed and verified genocide or to accompany aid shipments to insure the're safe arrival into the hands of their actual intended recipients.

we can be pretty accomodating as to what is deffined as a genocide as we're generaly opposed to killing anything you don't plan to put on your dinner plate.

but if someone is going to claim to be causing a small harm to prevent a larger one, we don't swallow that without making damd sure which is the smaller and which is the larger and that they are signifigantly so.

every tyrannt there has ever been has always claimed that their opponents were the tyrannts.

on a personal basis cops and judges hear this kind of thing all the time. and anyone who tries (or succeeds in doing so) to control the media and how it reports a conflict situation certainly casts signiffigant suspicion on themselves by doing so.

=^^=
.../\...

I guess it didn't help that I read this as "just war" meaning "only war" rather than "justified war"

I couldn't find this proposal in the list - could someone post a copy here?

(Copied to help in future debate)

Defining Just War

A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.


Category: The Furtherment of Democracy


Strength: Significant


Proposed by: Philopolis

Description: The Government of the Philo Republic, seeing as how so many wars are initiated carelessly and ignorantly of the chaos and sorrow it inflicts on the participants and victims, defines a set of rules to be obeyed by all UN Member Nations.

*War may only be waged for a just cause, such as self-defense against an armed attack.

*A war may only start under a legitimate authority.

*War may never be waged for material gain by any party

*War may only be waged if there is a reasonable chance of success so that a human life shall never perish in vain

*War may only be waged as a last resort and only if all UN diplomatic actions have been stressed

*A single negative intention shall invalidate all other positive intentions for war

If the criteria for a Just War have been met, this same resolution dictates how it shall be carried out.

*The force used must be proportional to the wrong endured, and to the possible good that may come.

*Acts of war shall only be directed towards the opposing military and never towards civilians
**Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) are thus banned

*Torture is absolutely forbidden

*Prisoners Of War (POWs) are to be treated humanly

*Pre-Emptive strikes are forbidden


Yeah. Now that I have read it I am going to have to vote against it should it come to the floor.

I think my biggest objection is "War may only be waged if there is a reasonable chance of success so that a human life shall never perish in vain" - it doesn't state who decides what the chance of success is, and sometimes you don't fight because you think you have any hope of winning, you fight because you know you have to fight.

well, not much to say except 'what?' [/wherestheproposal?]
I stand behind my original assessment.

This is 'touchy-feely-do-gooder' law. It is too far removed from reality especially game reality to be seriously considered.

The nation of NewarkBeth will vote no for this resolution because it denys the sovereignty of nations. Every nation has the right to a pre-emptive strike if it is to prevent that nation from attacking them. In the way this resolution is written the nation of Newarkbeth will vote Nay.

"War may only be waged if there is a reasonable chance of success so that a human life shall never perish in vain"

To paraphrase Clausewitz: If a state is unwilling to stand up and defend itself no matter what the odds then that state does not deserve to exist.

This section would give larger states the right to bully smaller ones because they do not have a reasonable chance of success.

Yuppers, sorry bud, the best thing to do when it comes down to creating a proposal THAT serious, you should sit down and create one with everyone rather then create it on your own. Then everyone can throw in there 2 cent and youll get a feal for how it should be.

This is a crazy proposal, and Leylsh will not support it.