NationStates Jolt Archive

The Constitutional Monarchy of Desertica has introduced a new resolution entitled: Repeal "The 40 Hour Workweek"

Here is the text of our resolution:

Argument: This resolution is a horrible exercise in socialistic thinking interfering with free enterprise. It is not the job of the UN to "save" people from having to work and hurting business because of it. This resolution only passed by 111 votes, which is by no means a consensus. This resolution ought to be repealed.

Here is the text of the original resolution of which we are attempting to repeal:

Description: 1. The maximum standard full-time workweek shall be set at 40 hours. Nations shall remain free to set their workweeks lower than this.

2. No one may be contractually obligated to work more than 40 hours per week, except for the following exemptions,
a ) military personnel
b ) civil defense forces
c ) civilian emergency response personnel
Excepting military personnel, these exemptions shall only apply during emergency situations.

3. No one may be contractually obligated to remain on the worksite without pay.

4. On call hours shall count against the 40 hour limit.

5. Work exceeding 40 hours per week that is voluntarily undertaken shall not exceed a total of 80 hours per week, and shall be paid at a rate of at least time and a half or an equivalent pro-rata time off in lieu. Nations shall remain free to set their allowable overtime hours lower and their overtime pay rates higher than specified in this proposal.

6. The 40 hour week shall be implemented in a manner that does not reduce the standard of living of the workers. Nations shall enact the laws needed to comply with the 40 hour week within 1 year of the passing of this resolution and they may phase in the changes over the course of up to 4 years. The necessary changes must be fully implemented within 5 years of the passing of this resolution.

7. In time of declared emergencies the national government may suspend this directive to any sector of the workforce it deems essential to the effective running of the country for the duration of that emergency.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Constitutional Monarchy of Desertica asks that the UN Regional Delegates support our mission to end this hindrance to free enterprise.

Thaddeus Larouche,
Prime Minister, The Constitutional Monarchy of Desertica

The Constitutional Monarchy of Desertica has introduced a new resolution entitled: Repeal "The 40 Hour Workweek"

Here is the text of our resolution:

Argument: This resolution is a horrible exercise in socialistic thinking interfering with free enterprise. It is not the job of the UN to "save" people from having to work and hurting business because of it. This resolution only passed by 111 votes, which is by no means a consensus. This resolution ought to be repealed.

Here is the text of the original resolution of which we are attempting to repeal:

Description: 1. The maximum standard full-time workweek shall be set at 40 hours. Nations shall remain free to set their workweeks lower than this.

2. No one may be contractually obligated to work more than 40 hours per week, except for the following exemptions,
a ) military personnel
b ) civil defense forces
c ) civilian emergency response personnel
Excepting military personnel, these exemptions shall only apply during emergency situations.

3. No one may be contractually obligated to remain on the worksite without pay.

4. On call hours shall count against the 40 hour limit.

5. Work exceeding 40 hours per week that is voluntarily undertaken shall not exceed a total of 80 hours per week, and shall be paid at a rate of at least time and a half or an equivalent pro-rata time off in lieu. Nations shall remain free to set their allowable overtime hours lower and their overtime pay rates higher than specified in this proposal.

6. The 40 hour week shall be implemented in a manner that does not reduce the standard of living of the workers. Nations shall enact the laws needed to comply with the 40 hour week within 1 year of the passing of this resolution and they may phase in the changes over the course of up to 4 years. The necessary changes must be fully implemented within 5 years of the passing of this resolution.

7. In time of declared emergencies the national government may suspend this directive to any sector of the workforce it deems essential to the effective running of the country for the duration of that emergency.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Constitutional Monarchy of Desertica asks that the UN Regional Delegates support our mission to end this hindrance to free enterprise.

Thaddeus Larouche,
Prime Minister, The Constitutional Monarchy of Desertica

There is an arguement to be made that free enterprise should not be encouraged off the back off explotion of the citizens of a country. That if the nation truly wants to support free enterprise it should force the companies to all compete at the same level - not force the companies to exploit their staff and drive them to an early grave.

There is also an arguement to be made that if the national laws permit a company to work people for as long as they like, for as little as they like, it is tantamount to re-introducing slavery to the work force.

There is also an arguement to be made that if you remove the limit on the number of hours a person can be forced to work for a company then you are encouraging the destruction of the family (though I admit that is a bit of a stretch. But if you keep someone at their job for all but five hours of the day, they will never get to see their children. This can not be good for the family). And by extention you are discriminating against those who are married, or have children, and as such can not work the hours required.

Article 3 requires people to be paid for their work. And, more to the point, that they can not be forced to work without pay. Again repealing this legislation would allow the reintroduction of slavery.

So, Desertica, you are repealing the entire piece of legislation?

This resolution is a horrible exercise in socialistic thinking interfering with free enterprise. It is not the job of the UN to "save" people from having to work and hurting business because of it. This resolution only passed by 111 votes, which is by no means a consensus. This resolution ought to be repealed

So, you would repeal something on the basis of three arguments:

1) It's socialistic thinking interfering with free enterprise.
2) It's not the UN's job to save people
3) The resolution only passed by 111 votes.

Well, first, leave off the use of socialism as a pejorative. Secondly, I'd like you to expand your arguments as this line of thinking is pretty weak. So, please, expand your argument

The Commonwealth of Sirloinia welcomes the repeal of the 40 hour working week. The state must never compel laziness. Many would work only 40 hours. That is up to them, in negotiations of contracts. Many would work much longer. Let them.

So, Desertica, you are repealing the entire piece of legislation?



So, you would repeal something on the basis of three arguments:

1) It's socialistic thinking interfering with free enterprise.
2) It's not the UN's job to save people
3) The resolution only passed by 111 votes.

Well, first, leave off the use of socialism as a pejorative. Secondly, I'd like you to expand your arguments as this line of thinking is pretty weak. So, please, expand your argument


Reason number one is correct, if someone doesn't want to work that long, they don't have to work at that job. Either that, or their union can get a better deal for them. That's the way it should work, how is the government to know how much time a business needs from its employeees?

Reason number two is taken out of context, the UN can and should save people when needed, but not from paid work. That's what I meant.

Reason number three may not be a legitimate reason to repeal the resolution, but it can be used to illustrate lack of overwhelming support for the original resolution.

I do not, however, object to banning pay without work. I would happily back a resolution doing just that if this resolution were repealed.

Reason number one is correct, if someone doesn't want to work that long, they don't have to work at that job. Either that, or their union can get a better deal for them. That's the way it should work, how is the government to know how much time a business needs from its employeees?

It's not a question of wanting, Desertica. If there is one thing that people have learned in the Capitlaistic model of the industrial age it is that workers have little power in the face of the corporation. It is easy to say it is the employee's choice to work a longer (or shorter) workweek, but in the real world, if your employer tells you that you have to work a 50, 60, 70 hour week, you do it, or you lose your job. Have you not read Dickens, the Jungle or better yet, Adam Smith?

I will never support a repeal of the 40 hour work week. Business has too much power as it is

It's not a question of wanting, Desertica. If there is one thing that people have learned in the Capitlaistic model of the industrial age it is that workers have little power in the face of the corporation. It is easy to say it is the employee's choice to work a longer (or shorter) workweek, but in the real world, if your employer tells you that you have to work a 50, 60, 70 hour week, you do it, or you lose your job. Have you not read Dickens, the Jungle or better yet, Adam Smith?

I will never support a repeal of the 40 hour work week. Business has too much power as it is

The corporations tell workers what to do, and if they don't like it, they can quit the job or start (or join) a union. Why should it be any different?

The corporations tell workers what to do, and if they don't like it, they can quit the job or start (or join) a union. Why should it be any different?

Because the employer has too much power. In reality, do you really think it works that way? That you can easily just walk off your job and get another one? Of course not. And what if employment conditions everywhere are uniformly bad? People have no choice but to work, so there has to be a limit somewhere, or companies can force people to work more for less and suffer few directly adverse effects.

Because the employer has too much power. In reality, do you really think it works that way? That you can easily just walk off your job and get another one? Of course not. And what if employment conditions everywhere are uniformly bad? People have no choice but to work, so there has to be a limit somewhere, or companies can force people to work more for less and suffer few directly adverse effects.

I don't object to the idea of government improving workplace conditions, I object to this one-size-fits-all policy concerning the duration of one's work.

The 40 Hour Work Week proposal merely enforced the principal that no one should be compelled to work for more than 40 hours per week as part of their standard working conditions.

Clause 5 is significant here though:


5. Work exceeding 40 hours per week that is voluntarily undertaken shall not exceed a total of 80 hours per week, and shall be paid at a rate of at least time and a half or an equivalent pro-rata time off in lieu. Nations shall remain free to set their allowable overtime hours lower and their overtime pay rates higher than specified in this proposal.


That's about 11 and a half hours per day, seven days a week - and it's legal if it's voluntary. The only condition imposed is that the employee must be paid for it. Hardly unreasonable is it?

The resolution even includes a get-out for military personnel (who aren't covered at all) and emergency staff who won't have to clock-off the moment their shift finishes and turn their back on a burning building.

Unless you wish to compel employees to work long hours for no extra pay then you should not be objecting to this proposal.

Let's not turn the clock back. Support the 40 Hour Work Week and reject the motion to repeal it.

And count yourself lucky it's 80 hours, because I argued for 60 in the original draft.

That's about 11 and a half hours per day, seven days a week - and it's legal if it's voluntary. The only condition imposed is that the employee must be paid for it. Hardly unreasonable is it?


Hear, hear!

(or possibley here, here. I have only ever heard it before, not seen it written down!)

Because the employer has too much power. In reality, do you really think it works that way? That you can easily just walk off your job and get another one? Of course not. And what if employment conditions everywhere are uniformly bad? People have no choice but to work, so there has to be a limit somewhere, or companies can force people to work more for less and suffer few directly adverse effects.

Well said. If laws like this are not in place, there will always be the desperate man willing to work for that 5 minutes more, who pushes down the standard that the rest are able to demand.

_Myopia_ will fight with all the might we can muster to prevent the repeal of this resolution, should it become a serious threat.