NationStates Jolt Archive

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Joint Komokom-Knootian Press conference
UN General Assembly
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Aram Koopman, Knootian UN representative:

“Welcome Ladies and Gentlemen, members of the press, drunk representative of third world nation there in the back. … yes…. No. This is not where the votes take place. Take the second corridor to the left please… No puking on the carpet!

Anyway… welcome.

As I’m sure you’ve found out by now that there is another resolution up to vote that is supposed to be a resolution to "reduce barriers to free trade and commerce". My government finds it quite unappetising that again such an important issue is being hijacked to push "social justice" and "environmental" issues such as UN fishing quotas, UN zones off-limit to development and UN interference in contractual agreements between workers and employers.

However, in its current format the proposal is blatantly illegal. The United Nations setting laws for international waters that it has just renounced sovereignty over is extraterritorial legislation. It bears the idea that the NSUN is a global organization, while it is only representative of about 30.9% of the NS World. Those who would claim the seas for themselves should know that close to 70% of NationStates exist outside the scope, control and authority of any NSUN resolution.

The Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss announces hereby that it intends to be joining this overwhelming majority of the planet that is not part of the United Nations, which has come to include mostly those nations excessively using the colour red in their flags and military paraphernalia. I want to explain however, that in itself the latest resolution would not be enough to prompt Knootian resignation. There have been more blatant acts of stupidity by this body, and the very fact that this resolution is illegal would be enough to ignore its provisions insofar as they apply to international waters.

Other reasons for our resignation can be found in an increasingly worrying trend wherein the United Nations are being subverted by an active group of highly organised nations who, without taking into account more general interest, are pushing a highly ideological and, in the opinion of my government, dangerous agenda. The representative of Komokom will tell you all more about this - and our other shared concerns - in a moment.

The DDR government encourages all nations to resign from the UN, if they value the principles of self-restraint by the UN, which is to say that the democratic primate of the national polities in internal affairs should be respected. Knootoss also encourages those who want decisions to be taken as close to the citizen as possible to leave. Also, we encourage those non-socialist and communist nations who would like to see the UN as a politically neutral body to leave and not to come back until some balance has been restored.

To encourage this development of rendering the NSUN even more irrelevant then it already is, the DDR ministry of Economic Affairs will be cutting all economic and humanitarian aid to UN member nations with the exception of structural adjustment funding programmes, disaster relief and reciprocating aid.

However, for now I will give the word to the Komokom representative."

http://www.meninhats.com/images/aram.gif
~Aram Koopman, Knootian ex-UN representative

((See Komokoms post for the rest. More Knootian stuff below.))


Press statement by the Knootian government
((OOC: mostly done for myself, really, but useful if you want to know which things will change in the DDR))


Announcement of proposed legislative changes as a result of NSUN resignation
As a part of UN membership, Knootoss has passed laws for the enforcement of NSUN regulations. In the coming period the Knootian government will put several under these laws up for review while maintaining other NSUN directives and regulations. Some of these resolutions have already been incorporated into our system while others will be added to it.

NSUN regulations that shall be put into national law or will remain part of national law
Parliament will receive legislative proposals from the government to put the following UN regulations into law, pending minor adjustments for our local situation and improvements in its wording. The rules as set out in these proposals work directly in all NSUN member states, but with the permission of parliament they shall be made into domestic laws of Knootoss as well:

The continued, standardisation of DVD regions removal, the ban on slavery and the affirmation of assorted human rights associated with it, banning Child Labour within the DDR, the ban on Paedophilia (the government will, however, propose amendments), the continued use of the Metric System, the Universal Bill of Rights insofar as such principles have not already been adopted in our law, the Common Sense Acts, the ban on embargoes on Medicine, the freedom of humour as a sentient right, the affirmation of rights of cloned and genetically engineered persons as being the equal of those of naturally born and unmodified persons, provisions made by the UN on torture and barbaric punishments, provisions made regarding Children in War, the enforcement of the public domain,

The DDR has already satisfactorily implemented into domestic law several NSUN directives and regulations. Local legislation is already in accordance with the main goals of these established UN directives. Government will propose no changes in the laws regarding these directices. Primarily, these are the constitutional sovereignty of our State and the rights and duties of the DDR as a result of withdrawing from the UN. The government will also maintain already established local law on Universal Copyright/Patent Law, free education for children, the democratic basis of our constitution, leglislation regarding euthanasia, abortion, gay rights, privacy, education, equal treatment and prostitution legislation , the ban on trafficking persons, the rules regarding treatment of mentally-ill, the principle of Habeas Corpus and freedom of the press.

NSUN directives that will no longer be upheld
The government will review and propose changes to the following laws which have been implemented as a result of UN directives that we are no longer subject to: the mandatory recycling system. the ban on the development of Biological weapons, the stimulating of hydrogen-powered vehicles (which have already been well-established in the DDR), the changes made to our legislative system due to the ‘due process’ resolution (specifically, getting rid of the jury system in favour of old laws), all economic measures taken to enforce the “Sustainable Energy Sources” and “Reduction of greenhouse gases” resolutions.

Common positions the government still shares with the NSUN, and proposed amendements
The Dutch Democratic Republic still stands with the UN on the common positions on fighting the Axis of Evil, scientific freedom, sexual freedom, keeping the world disease-free, protecting historical sites, promoting religious tolerance, fair trials, the protection of children, increasing access to medicine and protecting refugees. The DDR is willing to work with UN nations to promote the goals as set out in these common positions. The implementation protocols of the SPCC Regulation Act, however, shall be put under review by an Economic Affairs committee. Universal Freedom of Choice will be adopted as a common position of the government, but government will not propose a ban on subliminal advertising to replace the (regulating) ban as set out in the resolution because it does not share the belief in its harmful effects. A proposal to repeal this law shall be sent to parliament.

The DDR will also remain a signatory to the Wolfish Convention on POW.

NSUN Regulations and bans that will no longer be enforced
Effective immediately, the DDR government will no longer enforce the ban on single-hulled tankers, the ban on oceanic waste dumping, the ban on the use of landmines and the ban on whaling. The government will no longer enforce the forced replanting of trees, the standardised 40 Hour Workweek and the Rights of Labour Unions resolution, but it will seek to lift the ban for Labour Unions to operate only at the company level. The government will no longer force companies to spend 1% of their profits on alternative fuels research, nor will it enforce the “Stop dumping - Start Cleaning” regulations but it is willing to listen to parliamentary proposals to replace these resolutions by a more equitable acts.

NSUN organisations and programmes status
The DDR will completely withdraw from the World Heritage List (a list will be created on the Federation level), the UN Space Consortium, the UN Educational Committee (funds previously assigned to this committee will be reallocated nationally) and the World Woodland Protection Team. (Tasks to be reallocated to the Knootian Environmental Control Agency) The DDR will remain part of the International Red Cross Organization, the Global AIDS Initiative, the UNICAT and the World Blood Bank depending on rules of these organisations. If this is needed, an “independent” UN office like the Menelmacari UN office will be created to ensure continued cooperation with these institutions.

NSUN reccomendations
Finally, the UN recommendations on basic healthcare, ballast water, saving the forests, FGM, freedom of the press, tracking near earth objects and needle sharing prevention are noted by the DDR government, but they will be implemented as the government and Knootian parliament deem fit.

My Fellow Nation States United Nations,

In relation to recent N.S.U.N. events and after careful consideration, I have decided that I will be resigning my membership from this organization. I know how we all usually respond to these kinds of posts, so I can only hope you will read a moment longer and hear me out.

The following is a prepared statement by The Rep of Komokom,

I, The Rep of Komokom, officially renounce my member-ship with the Nation States United Nations in relation to the following observations.

In relation to recent events played out on the U.N. Forum, Moderation Forum, Technical Forum, and various mIRC conversations, relating to OOC angst and bickering, bringing differences in extra-organisational affiliation to the table instead of impersonal but helpful commentary, I have been quite disappointed by the behaviour displayed by various members of the organization. I feel these people who I otherwise respect greatly should be above such things. How-ever, despite my usual respect for them in their near daily actions, I feel I cannot support the behaviour other-wise displayed.

Further, and, perhaps more serious, is the growing threat to the organization in its dealings, its machinations of law and its own delegate body.

It has come to my attention that a semi-distributed organization which primarily communicates via off-site means, originating from a large centralised region, and developing shard regions, is planning to splinter off its centralised body of 300 + nations, and use the subsequent regions to elect, eventually, enough delegates to exercise a dangerous voting bloc against the delegate endorsement of proposals process.

Already via regional H.Q. message boards, delegates among this group have revealed wilful intent to destabilise the Nation States United Nations, disrupt its processes, and use the system against itself to present their own material to the general vote.

Some will see this, no doubt, as a potential political coup never before rivalled in size and possibility.
Some will see it as the birth of a new way to influence other nations. Some will herald it as a tool in their war against organised global government.

I see it as the peril of the freely provided basic democracy granted to us all along with that little blue badge.

And, finally, with this new group, and, no doubt with others to be faced in the future, and with individual players too, for any number of motives, innocent or not, is the plethora of utter rubbish to be sent into the proposal que, a matter which I suspect will only escalate as time goes on. No doubt, with the growing popularity of Nation States, it is a problem that will be continued to be faced by Moderation staff, as well as innocent delegates themselves.

Because of all this, I have made the decision that until such a time in the future as I feel it a viable to do so, I will no longer hold membership in this organization. I hope you will at lest take to heart my concerns I have vented here, and I can only hope you will not too greatly spurn me for this.

I will of course remain in Nation States, I will of course be as active as I am now, I will keep my region going, if my friends will stand by me there (as any individual can only hope their friends will), and, I will keep my passed resolution thread up to date, as well as be consistent in any off-site support I may go on to provide.

But for the time being, in so far as being a member of this organization goes, I must step outside, and, I may be a while. Today the bell tolls for me. May it not toll for you all, is my greatest wish as I type this.

I thank the Nation States United Nations and those I know in it for all they have given me, and I sincerely wish, for you and this once august organization, the very best. I hope what I have given in return to you can ever be considered enough.

In closing, I was recently dubbed “ The Man Who Organised The Past “, which I rather took a like to, I am after all as mortal in my ego as the rest of us, so I say to you all, for the time being, I leave the rest of you to carry on and organise the future.

I’d best stop now, lest violins begin, and so, I end my time here. There is thank-fully, always a tomorrow for us here …

Thank you, and good night.

The Knootian nods. "Thank you. I will now be taking questions, should there be any."

"It has come to my attention that a semi-distributed organization which primarily communicates via off-site means, originating from a large centralised region, and developing shard regions, is planning to splinter off its centralised body of 300 + nations, and use the subsequent regions to elect, eventually, enough delegates to exercise a dangerous voting bloc against the delegate endorsement of proposals process."

please be specific, what group? lets get this info out. if they are a rogue group, the UN will take care of it.

I am very sad to see two nations whose intelligence and contributions I greatly respect and appreciate, leaving the UN. This organisation won't be the same without you.

OOC: I really hope you'll be maintaining your presence with puppets? Also, like The Human Beings says, it would be valuable to us to know whatever you know about this group.

I to am saddened by their passing, but sympathetic with their reasoning.

I too have made considerations of leaving and/or handing NSUN duties to a puppet country. Though remain undecided as of yet.

I sincerely hope that the powers that be come to their senses in this matter.

"It has come to my attention that a semi-distributed organization which primarily communicates via off-site means, originating from a large centralised region, and developing shard regions, is planning to splinter off its centralised body of 300 + nations, and use the subsequent regions to elect, eventually, enough delegates to exercise a dangerous voting bloc against the delegate endorsement of proposals process."

please be specific, what group? lets get this info out. if they are a rogue group, the UN will take care of it.

OOC: How exactly would the UN 'take care of it'? If a bunch of people join NS and decide to form a massive voting bloc to do what they want with the UN, that's completely legal under the rules.

(It appears that this is being done mainly for ooc reasons, which is fine. However since Knootoss has posted in-character, i'm doing the same. The 30% is actually higher than i expected as UN members, given the vast number of puppet nations in the game.)

Alvaro Pinto stands. "I've noticed a disturbing trend to flout the norms of international law," the elderly Tanah Burung diplomat says. "I have just finished a posting as Ambassador to SeOCC which came to an untimely end when that regime unilaterally ended the pratice of diplomatic immunity so crucial to civilized discourse among nations.

"Now i hear that another government well known to us has decided to leave the United Nations in a fit of pique, to protest against a resolution that has not even been passed. My own government is also opposed to this resolution, but we are voting against it and seeking improvements rather than denouncing the entire UN, the basis of our hopes for a peaceful world governed by law rather than survival of the strongest.

"It seems to me that Knootoss under its current government is systematically declaring itself a criminal regime that can set all its own laws, even claiming for itself the right to invade other countries. So my question is this: will your government ever return to the ideals of your countryman Grotius, that international law benefits us all, or are you set on this headlong charge into the law of the jungle?"

"The UN has its uses. We just haven't figured out what they are, yet."

~ Junior Ambassador Silenk

I'm particularly sad to see Knootoss leaving just as some Free Trade proposals were getting off the ground and I'll certainly miss ol' Kommers with his frying pan and sharp wit. I hope to see y'all still participating in the debates.

After checking via mIRC with two Moderators and making sure its okay to do so here, the region core to my concern is one " goontopia " which has recently engaged in a " splinter " campaign where by U.N. members, two by two, " splinter " off into a new region.

Examples of these regions include " goontopia ", itself, " goontopia 20 " and " goontopia 21 " at this time, thought at my last check they were not of any particular concern, ( excepting " goontopia ", which at last check had 300 + nations in it. ), there are or have been quite a few more " goontopia " regions, another example is " goontopia prime ".

The two U.N. member nations go to their region, designated by off-site communication with an IM program, and one endorses the other. The plan seems to go that they, with a resultant delegate bloc, and, with reasonably private communication, proceed to endorse what-ever they want to force it through the proposal que. I have in another recent thread already posted a regional H.Q. message board comment of the " goontopia " region delegate in relation to their intent to pretty much endorse every trash proposal they could, in the interest of carrying on the goontopian agenda. Further-more, they can use the resultant power to not only push through every rubbish proposal, but, to mak their own.

At this time the process, though certainly under-hand, seems legal enough.

Despite my leaving the U.N. , my investigations continue, I certainly hope others here will too investigate this concerning matter.

My independant investigation of Goontopia revealed at least 25 Goontopian clone regions (Regional Directory (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=list_regions/start=3675)), each with typically 3 but occasionally more UN nations, and one UN RD. Given that virtually all of the nations in question had between 5 and 18 million population, I find it highly unlikely that this 'movement' spontaneously arose out of the NationStates population just in the last 8 or 9 days.

Of course, I could be wrong.

After checking via mIRC with two Moderators and making sure its okay to do so here, the region core to my concern is one " goontopia " which has recently engaged in a " splinter " campaign where by U.N. members, two by two, " splinter " off into a new region.

Examples of these regions include " goontopia ", itself, " goontopia 20 " and " goontopia 21 " at this time, thought at my last check they were not of any particular concern, ( excepting " goontopia ", which at last check had 300 + nations in it. ), there are or have been quite a few more " goontopia " regions, another example is " goontopia prime ".

The two U.N. member nations go to their region, designated by off-site communication with an IM program, and one endorses the other. The plan seems to go that they, with a resultant delegate bloc, and, with reasonably private communication, proceed to endorse what-ever they want to force it through the proposal que. I have in another recent thread already posted a regional H.Q. message board comment of the " goontopia " region delegate in relation to their intent to pretty much endorse every trash proposal they could, in the interest of carrying on the goontopian agenda. Further-more, they can use the resultant power to not only push through every rubbish proposal, but, to mak their own.

At this time the process, though certainly under-hand, seems legal enough.

Despite my leaving the U.N. , my investigations continue, I certainly hope others here will too investigate this concerning matter.

That's an interesting theory, but don't you think the nations of Goontopia just couldn't decide on one regional delegate and decided to split up instead of fighting about it?

That's an interesting theory, but don't you think the nations of Goontopia just couldn't decide on one regional delegate and decided to split up instead of fighting about it?Well, that too could be an interesting theory but its already been noted by several people, the material presented on the respective regional H.Q. boards by both delegates and inhabitants.

By the by, I'm glad to see the nation whom I assume was once " Shoverbots " and " Shoverbots Prime " has not rejoined the U.N. or engaged in Multi'ing again. Terrible to have a founder do that and get cuaght, risky for the region and such. Have to be so careful to abide by the rules and such.

All I know about shoverbots is that he created goontopia, if he broke the rules that's his own deal. As far as I know everything else has been within the limits of the game, this is still a game, right?

That's an interesting theory, but don't you think the nations of Goontopia just couldn't decide on one regional delegate and decided to split up instead of fighting about it?

I would find this idea easier to swallow if there weren't, as Frisbeeteria points out, at least twenty-five such regions. I find it hard to believe that the major reason for splitting into so many small regions was simply political differences. I find it even harder to accept, given the naming schema they decided on (great amount of originality there). The only reason to have such similar names is to make it easier to keep track of all of them.

My main concern is that this sort of action effectively weakens what usefulness a Delegate has as a check on the normal legislative process in the General Assembly, especially if other regions start following suit.

All I know about shoverbots is that he created goontopia, if he broke the rules that's his own deal. As far as I know everything else has been within the limits of the game, this is still a game, right?Well, I'm sure it is. On both counts. But, in relation to this being a game, yes, of course it most certainly is, though, may-haps it best to remember that there are going to be many other players who will not like what they see developing. And there is most certainly something smelling faintly of cabbage developing out there ...

Oh, and as I just noted :
Goontopia68 is an active trading partner with the Goontopia mainland. If you think the Goontopia's are all working together to overthrow the UN, you need help.My, we are a little touchy all of a sudden. I don't think I'll be taking up that effort of help though, kind as you are in offering it, I suppose.

Still, best of luck with your trading, I'm sure.

this is still a game, right?
You've used this line in every topic you're responded to. Yes, it's a game. A game with rules and standards that players are expected to follow. Apparently, that is a difficult concept for you, so I'll point you once again to the Game FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/53125/page=faq) and the stickies at the top of each of the 11 NationStates forums. That's where the rules and rulings are. Try reading them, please.

As long as all the individual countries are operated by separate people, then they're within the rules. As for proposals, well, that's what we have mods to look at the UN queue for :)

You've used this line in every topic you're responded to. Yes, it's a game. A game with rules and standards that players are expected to follow. Apparently, that is a difficult concept for you, so I'll point you once again to the Game FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/53125/page=faq) and the stickies at the top of each of the 11 NationStates forums. That's where the rules and rulings are. Try reading them, please.
So far the only rule I've broken is the some rule that should invalidate the "High Seas" resolution, except the moderators didn't catch that one in time. The only times I've asked if this was still a game is when people start freaking out over stuff.

This is most definitely a sad day for the NS UN. Tuesday Heights mourns these losses and wishes the best of luck and friendship to both nations.

So far the only rule I've broken is the some rule that should invalidate the "High Seas" resolution, except the moderators didn't catch that one in time. The only times I've asked if this was still a game is when people start freaking out over stuff.

OOC: Yes, this is a game. It is a majorly IC type massive RPG. And to be blunt, "freeking out" by one nation, in the event of occurances is PART of the game. To be blunt, if you have to drop back to 'this IS a game' excuse as a defense as often as you do, you really need to re-evaluate why you are even playing.

LLJK, don't worry. It looks as if, judging from your current activity and your ideas, you'll make a fine and valuable member of the UN forum.

OOC:

Komokom, this seems a very strange reason to leave the UN. Has any harm been done by this subversive group? If they were to make any progress in their nefarious schemes thenI would unserstand your position, but as far as I'm aware... hmm. If you'd like to explain more, feel free to TG me.

IC:

I'm greatly saddened at the loss of arguably one of the UN's historically most ardent advocates. I hope to see conditions in the UN swiftly return to a state that is more welocming to our allies in Komokom.

I'm unsurprised at the decision by the government of Knootoss. They are simply the latest in a long line of governments that will not fight for what they believe, thus undermining the cause of conservatism further. More verbose than most of their ideological allies, more eloquent as well, perhaps. However, the end result is the same. Perhaps they may argue that they did try and fight their corner. However, their pro-business crusade lasted less than a month. I'm disappointed; I expected more.

Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN

Elsewhere...

Mathieu Vergniaud, Ecopoeia's Deputy Speaker to the UN, gazed mournfully at the wilting flowers in the vase on his desk. Despite his best efforts, they seemd doomed. He sighed, pulled them from the vase, dumped them in the bin and made for the Strangers' Bar.

"The Nifty Republic of Tzorslands is extreemely saddened by the resignations of the most distinguished representatives of Komokom and Knootoss. I can only wish you well in your future endeavors, and say 'Don't let the door hit you on the way out.' Of course if you tip the doorman, that tends not to happen."

"You complain that the U.N. is overreaching. You complain that there are conspiracies and revolutions. You forget that the perfect is the enemy of the good. Nothing is perfect. No one is perfect. The NSUN, being a collection of not perfect people must likewise be not perfect. The question is, does the NSUN do more good than harm, because as I said, the UN can't be perfect. I believe the answer is yes."

Peace & Good
The Meddling Monk of the Nifty Republic of Tzorsland

If Komkom and Knootoss wish to leave the UN in protest, then that is their choice, and good luck too them. We, however, will continue to fight for Democracy and justice within the UN, instead of leaving it to it's own devices.

The Experimental Democracy of Grand Teton

I think it a little early to consider resignation from the UN, as large (in relation to previous attempts) this particular effort might be.

But I will make my own investigations, via means of numerous established puppet states.

goontopians members offensive taking. Subversive group my eye rights. THis UN stuff = serious business. Timecube tell me you not take it seriously because you are 1d.

stop fooling. we make you better soonish.

What kind of nation embraces the rules when they want to and leave once the rules no longer appeal to them? Certainly not a good member of the UN. Goontopia is certainly no threat to anyone. That is not its intention, and I must protest quite emphatically that we mean no harm to the United Nations. We wish merely to contribute to the grand system that is the UN.

While we certainly regret the decision of Komokom and Knootoss to leave, we cannot understand their reasoning in the matter. Has our region done anything hostile or aggressive? Most certainly not. It seems they are offended by our very existence, and that is something that our Empire and others cannot change.

We sincerely regret any confusion that may be caused by our existence. We only wish to contribute to the UN.

I hope you improve your grammer first.

The Grand Inquisitor of Spelling is standing over my shoulder muttering something about "grammar" being spelled with 2 A's. I'm not sure, there's a lot of screaming in the background and it's hard to hear him. In any case, I'd ask you not to make ad hominem attacks in a serious discussion.

goontopians members offensive taking. Subversive group my eye rights. THis UN stuff = serious business. Timecube tell me you not take it seriously because you are 1d.

stop fooling. we make you better soonish.
I hope you improve your grammer first.

Now kiddies, settle down.

The departure of Komokom and Knootoss is a fairly intriguing development, an unexpected one. I hope that through UN nations' efforts to investigate the situation we'll be able to shed some light on what the problem is.

I hope you improve your grammer first.

grammar perfect in 4d. 1d mind just can't see it. Best be stop the fooling and heading into compulsary spelling reprogramming.

grammar perfect in 4d. 1d mind just can't see it. Best be stop the fooling and heading into compulsary spelling reprogramming.

:confused:

I don't have any real reason for this reply, I just didn't want the thread to end on that note...*shudders*...as it seems this issue is going to be stretched out over a longer period of time in the future, and there won't be too much activity on this thread during those intermediate periods...just my assumption.

"WELL IF KOMOKOM AND KNOOTOSS LEAVE, THEN SO DO I!" The Representative of UNIverseVERSE shouts, while striking up a dramatic pose. Since he is only four feet tall, this is quite laughable. "However we will send in a puppet."

(It appears that this is being done mainly for ooc reasons, which is fine. However since Knootoss has posted in-character, i'm doing the same. The 30% is actually higher than i expected as UN members, given the vast number of puppet nations in the game.)

Alvaro Pinto stands. "I've noticed a disturbing trend to flout the norms of international law," the elderly Tanah Burung diplomat says. "I have just finished a posting as Ambassador to SeOCC which came to an untimely end when that regime unilaterally ended the pratice of diplomatic immunity so crucial to civilized discourse among nations.

"Now i hear that another government well known to us has decided to leave the United Nations in a fit of pique, to protest against a resolution that has not even been passed. My own government is also opposed to this resolution, but we are voting against it and seeking improvements rather than denouncing the entire UN, the basis of our hopes for a peaceful world governed by law rather than survival of the strongest.

"It seems to me that Knootoss under its current government is systematically declaring itself a criminal regime that can set all its own laws, even claiming for itself the right to invade other countries. So my question is this: will your government ever return to the ideals of your countryman Grotius, that international law benefits us all, or are you set on this headlong charge into the law of the jungle?"

The suggestion that out nation is heading for the law of the jungle is as outrageous as it is libellous. The DDR will still be upholding 90% of UN regulations, and will merely do away with those statutes it has deemed to be incapable to uphold.

Hugo the Groot, (http://www.bartleby.com/65/gr/Grotius.html), the great Knootian that Mr. Pinto recalls, was a lawyer since age 15. If he had seen the formulation and the legal base of some of the proposals that were made and adopted in this house, he would surely shake his head and wonder if this would really be the international law of the future. He would surely ask: what justice is there in this? What legality can be derived from such documents that take not into account the sovereignty of states or the right of the smaller, minority state to assert itself against a greater number of other states? What inequality in the burden that is is placed on one state to accommodate the whims of another.

It is entirely in following the teachings of Huge de Groot that we have left the United Nations, and our actions on the international scene have been following his principles all along. It is those in the United Nations who seek only to push their narrow, ideological agenda and force them on other peoples who should re-read the works of this great man and conclude that self-restraint in the use of raw, theoretical power can be a great thing in international politics.

It is the belief of my government that the credibility, desirability and the economic sustainability of the NSUN are sinking like the Titanic, and we have elected to take the last remaining lifeboat of resignation. Any first-class passengers who wish to come along should do so as soon as possible, while the orchestra is still playing.

http://www.meninhats.com/images/aram.gif
~Aram Koopman, Knootian ex-UN representative

OOC: OOC reasons feature prominently, but the IC rationale and the current political constellation make this a very plausible move. Considering that puppets are nations too, I would think that the numbers still apply. Its not the number of players that counts, after all. The argument remains the same, anyway.

Bits of de Groot (Grotius, as you call him) were required reading in one of my courses last year :) Sheesh that old Dutch is different.

I have no UN puppet at the moment but I may create one in the future.

"WELL IF KOMOKOM AND KNOOTOSS LEAVE, THEN SO DO I!" The Representative of UNIverseVERSE shouts, while striking up a dramatic pose. Since he is only four feet tall, this is quite laughable. "However we will send in a puppet."

*sends the rep a complementary flowerbasket*

*sends the rep a complementary flowerbasket*

"Why thank you sirs" *Sends back a fine Chardonnay*

I, Leader of The Pointing Monkey, UN Delegate of Goontopia (ruling with 90 endorsements), and reader of this thread, have one among many things to say about the grand region of Goontopia. Goontopia is a region which consists of members who wish to restore morals, peace, and basic rights to the UN. In this day in age, the world is a sesspool of hate, violence, and war. In conclusion, I say to you...do you not want that too?

I, Leader of The Pointing Monkey, UN Delegate of Goontopia (ruling with 90 endorsements), and reader of this thread, have one among many things to say about the grand region of Goontopia. Goontopia is a region which consists of members who wish to restore morals, peace, and basic rights to the UN. In this day in age, the world is a sesspool of hate, violence, and war. In conclusion, I say to you...do you not want that too?

As a delegate of such power and with such strong desires for the international well-being, you would be just as wise to consolidate your number of endorsements to maintain as much voting power as possible. Your current effort to destabilize the mechanics of the United Nations by increasing the number of existing delegates is a bit difficult to swallow as an innocent gesture.

A conglomoration of identical Goontopian delegates will ensure that very few proposals pass without first meeting the whims of your policy demands. This is inherently undemocratic, and effectively places your group in control of an otherwise free and open United Nations. Were your intentions indeed noble, you would refrain from exerting this kind of control over the proposal process, and retain your power over legislation by way of votes only.

I, Leader of The Pointing Monkey, UN Delegate of Goontopia (ruling with 90 endorsements), and reader of this thread, have one among many things to say about the grand region of Goontopia. Goontopia is a region which consists of members who wish to restore morals, peace, and basic rights to the UN. In this day in age, the world is a sesspool of hate, violence, and war. In conclusion, I say to you...do you not want that too?...

Mean-while :

22 hours ago
The Oppressed Peoples of PodSix (U.N. Delegate)

Some grandma spewed this out of it's piehole on the forum. Better watch out they'll take us out on the interweb :(

Awesome! Lets harass them. We’ll invade their regions and worship the color green, or Styrofoam cups or something. We’ll show them who the online cult is.Mean-while :
86 minutes ago
The Republic of Enarehea

There's some dissent in the Goontopia world headquarters about the current "No Marriage Under Age of 15" votes. On one hand, restriction of civil rights is positive, but on the other hand, this seems like the sort of bizarre thing we might want to make mandatory some day.Mean-while:Goontopia7 is a small enlightened region, charged by the Goontopia founders with a mission: Ad Abolendam. May our faith guide us and our zeal strengthen us.Mean-while :
9 days ago
The Democratic States of Pineapple Joe-bot

Thanks to the support of all who have endorsed me, I am continuing to vote in the UN for the Goontopian platform of total insanity, and I just submitted a proposal to ban heterosexuality in UN member nations.Finally,
EVERYONE PLEASE IM NetSekretPolice FOR A SPLINTER REGION NUMBER IMMEDIATELY! THE MOMENT OF TRUTH IS SOON TO COME! ...

Geee whizz, I can just feel the love.

Oh, and before I forget, stop spouting the virtures of your region here, its dangerously close to region-pimping, and thats what the game-play thread is for thank you very much.

...
...

Geee whizz, I can just feel the love.

Oh, and before I forget, stop spouting the virtures of your region here, its dangerously close to region-pimping, and thats what the game-play thread is for thank you very much.

Sir, your vitriol is uncalled for.

If you honestly think that is any kind of vitriol, your giving your-selves far too much credit. Suffice to say you can knock it off with trying to slap me about with the bad guy paint, please.

Further-more, if you have a problem with the rules of the forums I was trying to politely explain, ( not that I was obliigated to do so, mind you ), then perhaps you should take it out-side, if you so please.

Thank-you.

Mr. Puppet,

I think he just made some disturbing insights about the way Goontopia operates public. Is posting what your own region members wrote vitrol? I think not.

...

Mean-while :
Mean-while :Mean-while:Mean-while :Finally,
...

Geee whizz, I can just feel the love.

Oh, and before I forget, stop spouting the virtures of your region here, its dangerously close to region-pimping, and thats what the game-play thread is for thank you very much.

As the official delegate of Goontopia7, I can say with absolute certainty that our region's description is a joke that does not violate any international laws. Once again, we present no threat.

Furthermore, region-pimping seems to be a silly charge in a thread discussing the region itself. The Pointing Monkey has full right to defend us from what seems to me to be unfounded attacks and allegations.

Beatus, beatus, beatus.

EDIT:

If you honestly think that is any kind of vitriol, your giving your-selves far too much credit. Suffice to say you can knock it off with trying to slap me about with the bad guy paint, please.

Further-more, if you have a problem with the rules of the forums I was trying to politely explain, ( not that I was obliigated to do so, mind you ), then perhaps you should take it out-side, if you so please.

Thank-you.

I'm constantly amazed at your aggressive stance. You seem to want to create trouble just for the sake of creating trouble. That is the behavior of a child, not of a national leader.

As the official delegate of Goontopia7, I can say with absolute certainty that our region's description is a joke that does not violate any international laws. Once again, we present no threat.Then I am with hope we may go our ways in peace.

Me in my way, you to form up with your splinter number and await further instructions.

No, wait, of course, you already have your " splinter number " and your delegate of one of those regions, so I suppose its just " wait for further instructions " and all that, you know.Furthermore, region-pimping seems to be a silly charge in a thread discussing the region itself. The Pointing Monkey has full right to defend us from what seems to me to be unfounded attacks and allegations.Although, originally the thread was not eaxactly devoted to it, you know. It was asked of me and others to explain our views, and that we did. Further-more, I only pointed out ( ha, this could almost be a pun ... ) to " The Pointing Monkey " that was how I thought it possible to interpret their statement. In future I'm sure it would please you and your ... organisation ... best then if people did nothing to inform you of the rules or expcted behaviour here, and let you go about your merry little ways, yes ?Beatus, beatus, beatus.Say what, exactly ? Oh, and I find this quite interesting ...

EDIT:

I'm constantly amazed at your aggressive stance. You seem to want to create trouble just for the sake of creating trouble. That is the behavior of a child, not of a national leader.Indeed ? Well ...

From some one who has made an edit simply to personally attack me despite my civility, I'd think this a case of the pot making a collect call to inform the kettle of their own dark shade.

While the call is being directed, please hold, and refrain from attempting to insult the person whose not on " something awful " forums taking part in some nefarious scheme to disrupt a part of an online game.

That said, I'd just like to get back to my original intent for posting in this thread today, before the .... interuption ... that it seems even more promising players are leaving the N.S.U.N. in response to the current trends ...

( see here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=360116), please for further information )

Most intrigueing.

Although I need more information on these regions (quotations, stances and references), I feel that this may be one of the ultimate tests of the NSUN and it's democratic process.

It could turn into a nice boxing match.

Can the lathargic, multi-lateral, multi-plicitous, democratic legislature of the UN rise to the task to defeat quicker, nimbler, and more single-minded opposition?

But, as stated, we need more information...

Seated so far back that he could barely see the speakers, and so high up that his head almost touched the ceiling, Brother Timothy struggled to understand what was going on.

Someone was invading and someone was manipulating and, all told, nobody was very happy. He didn't think that would be well received at the Abbey of Findhorn if he sent it as his first report on debate at the glorious United Nations.

One thing he did understand, though, was that the famed Rep of Komokom was leaving. "He was like a father to me," Tim whispered, trying the phrase out for dramatic impact. Unfortunately, it had none; the Rep of Komokom wasn't old enough, no matter how precocious he'd been.

But Brother Timothy remembered how welcoming had been the fire, and the frypans, and the gentle introductions to good drinking companions when he first washed up on the shore of the Strangers' Bar. And, although he couldn't thank the Rep for his good counsel on the matter of certain female delegates (the Rep having been asleep with his head in a custard tart for most of the time), nonetheless he was sure that, had he been awake, his words would have been wise. Besides, was this not The Man Who Organised the Past?

Tears ran unchecked down Tim's face and he reached out blindly for comfort. Unthinkingly he petted the twin fluffy dice that had attached themselves to him; and they, seeking comfort also, snuffled woefully into his robe.

If you honestly think that is any kind of vitriol, your giving your-selves far too much credit. Suffice to say you can knock it off with trying to slap me about with the bad guy paint, please.

Further-more, if you have a problem with the rules of the forums I was trying to politely explain, ( not that I was obliigated to do so, mind you ), then perhaps you should take it out-side, if you so please.

Thank-you.

Sir, respectfully, it certainly sounds like you are doing nothing but attempting to propogate goontopia hate and misdirection. At least it does from the point of view of a nation at whom you are pointing fingers. As to whether or not this is intention, I have no direct knowledge. We, as a nation, see no 'bad guys' in this situation, rather, we see miguided scared individuals dragging their nations into the mud by slinging that mud at us.

We are aware of the rules, as you so blunty state. We are capable of reading, thank you very much. There was nothing 'polite' about anything you've stated past your 'discovery' of the Goontopian Brotherhood. You assume that because there is a sign of organisation and because we permit free speech among our Nations representatives in Regional forums of discussion, that there is some sort of 'evil' or 'bad' intent. One would think you simply have a grudge against Goontopians. Not that we would suggest such a horrible and completely misguided idea, simply reminding you what it looks like from the outside in, sir.

Sir, respectfully, it certainly sounds like you are doing nothing butAnd that is about where the respect for me ends, reading on ...attempting to propogate goontopia hate and misdirection.I'd not dream of doing such a thing myself. It would be contrary to the standards up-held here, and so far it is of note, those whom I have objected to and observed, have done it all so ever well them-selves.At least it does from the point of view of a nation at whom you are pointing fingers.I was not aware you had been singled out ... Unless of course you see yourself in guilt of what I have previously suggested here, but that I am sure is your own business.As to whether or not this is intention, I have no direct knowledge.Oh, then you must be lacking one of those pretty accounts at " something awful " dot com, you know, the forums ? Apparently thats where members of the organised group in question hang out, in fact, from what I've already picked up, its supposed to be where things are mostly directed from. Of course, there is also all the IM'ing going on ...We, as a nation, see no 'bad guys' in this situation,Of course not, and thats completely under-standable.

Considering your in one of these affiliated regions, your not going to see yourselves in the shadows at all. Stands to reason. Very sensible thing you have pointed out there.rather, we see miguided scared individuals dragging their nations into the mud by slinging that mud at us.Really ? Just about to say it myself. Is it the same group having a crack at me ?We are aware of the rules, as you so blunty state.Excellent. Here is to the hope they don't change on you. Might I add I'm so ever glad people are reading the rules so closely. Its a terrible business when people don't can get caught out with that N.S.U.N. multi-member thing. Tragic stuff.We are capable of reading, thank you very much.Wel I'm happy for you. Some where it has all been made worth-while for an education minister.There was nothing 'polite' about anything you've stated past your 'discovery' of the Goontopian Brotherhood.Well, you know, in my time here, I've always done my best to be diplomatic. No walking in over every-ones toes and that with big "All your base and democracy are mine " boots. I'm sure if you hang around you can learn this important skill too. Brother-hood you say ... much chanting ? Is it one of those stone building, brown robe affairs ? Do they have computers there ? Must be bucking some of the traditional trends then ...You assume that because there is a sign of organisationOh I have no problem with the obvious organistion. Its quite remarkable and a sign of genius in its own way ...

Its all the clear as day " coup'de'tat " talk that has been let slip that set a fire under most readers.and because we permit free speech among our Nations representatives in Regional forums of discussionYes, well, for $10 an account I'm sure the free speech is worth it. Oh, since I'm hardly able to do so, say hello to one " Axis Nova " for me, if you please. I've seen them make some good contributions on this forum to the N.S.U.N.that there is some sort of 'evil' or 'bad' intent.I don't think it, I just consider some of what I have observed to be contrary to the interests of the N.S.U.N and a threat to its democratic processes. I say my thing, you say yours, and the people who play here read it and can make their own decisions and investigations. I've certainly no problem with that. Last I checked, information is the currecy of democracy, as some have said, and free and open communication and thought are quite important in that.One would think you simply have a grudge against Goontopians.Oh no, see, I don't think this should get personal, hard as some have tried to make it. A pity that. A great pity.Not that we would suggest such a horrible and completely misguided idea,Oh, of course not,I'm sure.simply reminding you what it looks like from the outside in, sir.Funny thing you know ...

I thought I was doing that.

....I suppose this means you wont need our Flagging Services any further, will you Knootoss. The Order, of course, supports Knootoss and Komokom's decision; it was one we made ourselves some time back. The UN has been declining steadily, becoming something we cannot, will not support. And as we have always said in the past, the Order will stand against anything the UN does to restrict the nations outside it's members.

OOC: Indeed it does, but we will not forget you when handing out future contracts. :)

And that is about where the respect for me ends, reading on ...I'd not dream of doing such a thing myself. It would be contrary to the standards up-held here, and so far it is of note, those whom I have objected to and observed, have done it all so ever well them-selves.I was not aware you had been singled out ... Unless of course you see yourself in guilt of what I have previously suggested here, but that I am sure is your own business.Oh, then you must be lacking one of those pretty accounts at " something awful " dot com, you know, the forums ? Apparently thats where members of the organised group in question hang out, in fact, from what I've already picked up, its supposed to be where things are mostly directed from. Of course, there is also all the IM'ing going on ...Of course not, and thats completely under-standable.

Considering your in one of these affiliated regions, your not going to see yourselves in the shadows at all. Stands to reason. Very sensible thing you have pointed out there.Really ? Just about to say it myself. Is it the same group having a crack at me ?Excellent. Here is to the hope they don't change on you. Might I add I'm so ever glad people are reading the rules so closely. Its a terrible business when people don't can get caught out with that N.S.U.N. multi-member thing. Tragic stuff.Wel I'm happy for you. Some where it has all been made worth-while for an education minister.Well, you know, in my time here, I've always done my best to be diplomatic. No walking in over every-ones toes and that with big "All your base and democracy are mine " boots. I'm sure if you hang around you can learn this important skill too. Brother-hood you say ... much chanting ? Is it one of those stone building, brown robe affairs ? Do they have computers there ? Must be bucking some of the traditional trends then ...Oh I have no problem with the obvious organistion. Its quite remarkable and a sign of genius in its own way ...

Its all the clear as day " coup'de'tat " talk that has been let slip that set a fire under most readers.Yes, well, for $10 an account I'm sure the free speech is worth it. Oh, since I'm hardly able to do so, say hello to one " Axis Nova " for me, if you please. I've seen them make some good contributions on this forum to the N.S.U.N.I don't think it, I just consider some of what I have observed to be contrary to the interests of the N.S.U.N and a threat to its democratic processes. I say my thing, you say yours, and the people who play here read it and can make their own decisions and investigations. I've certainly no problem with that. Last I checked, information is the currecy of democracy, as some have said, and free and open communication and thought are quite important in that.Oh no, see, I don't think this should get personal, hard as some have tried to make it. A pity that. A great pity.Oh, of course not,I'm sure.Funny thing you know ...

I thought I was doing that.

Sir, Our entire reply was worded very carefully to convey respect and if you allow your seeming hate and bigotry towards those of the Goontopian Brotherhood to cloud your judgement, then there is nothing We can do to help you.

As for what you are attempting with your constant mudslinging and accusations, up to this point Munkinskian officials were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and simply assume that out of fear of change, or ignorance of other nations customs, you were insulting us unintentionally. Your continued attacks on our decorum and intentions lead us to beleive you are either ignorant or just blind scared and refuse to see the truth for what it is. Either way, it makes you unreasonable (and considering you are abandoning your duty to the world, by resigning your seat with the UN, I personally am more inclined to label you a coward.) and therefor there is absolutely no reason to further explain ourselves to you. You are going to see conspiricy, plain and simple.

By pointing fingers at any of the Goontopian Brotherhood, you are pointing fingers at all of us. We stand together. Our strength of character and purpose comes from a shared Brotherhood. I am sorry you cannot experiance such things where you come from.

The intention I speak of is your intention to insult the Goontopian Brotherhood. The intention I speak of is to sling mud upon our Nations names and citizens in the eyes of the UN. In the words of my children, sir, You are 'shit talking'. Whether or not your insults and slander were intentional or not was in question. Not the intent of bringing peace, love, unity, and above all Brotherhood the nations of the world through proper legislation supported by the Goontopian Brotherhood. That is no secret. Our intentions are not hidden. As for this 'forums account' you speak of, I don't have the slighest clue as to what you are talking about. Unless of course you mean the regional forums, which are public to any visiting dignitaries, from any nation, be it hostile or friendly. The same is said for IM'ing. I do not know what you are talking about, and cannot provide you with any information regarding this. You might want to try sending a telegram to The Pointing Monkey and inquire with that government however.

The Goontopian Brotherhood does not stand in the shadows. We make ourselves very obviously known. All our regions are named as such, just so that scared governments with old leaders who are too fat and too comfortable in their seats of power can see and hear what we are doing without having to break a sweat. If we wished to hide in the shadows, as you so accuse us of doing, why on earth would we be naming our territories "Goontopia"? I'm afraid your fear is again clouding your reasoning.

In conclusion, The Munkinskian Dictator wishes me to personally convey her disapointment in your nations leaders. They have allowed fear to cloud reason and judgement and with great regret she has decided to cease communication with you, as you have resigned from the UN, and you are openly hostile and angry with Munkinskian officials for no other reasons than our Nations affiliation with the Goontopian Brotherhood. She greives for you personally sir, because it is always sad to see such great leaders sink to such lows as you have. There will be a national day of mourning in Munkinski.

OOC: You might want to stop mixing your out of character comments with your in character comments. It gets a little confusing. And stop taking it so personally. It's just the internet. ;D

Sir, Our entire reply was worded very carefullyYes, that was quite clear.to convey respect and if you allow your seeming hate and bigotry towards those of the Goontopian Brotherhood to cloud your judgementWhich is interesting because, as you have called me a hate filled bigot,

1) I have always done my best to be polite, and,
2) Rational in all my dealings, and further, in most of if not all my posting,
3) Before being some-what bad-mouthed by others here,
4) I backed up most if not all my obervations with precise evidence.

Of which I provided not only in the interests of the player body but also in what I thought the best interests of a game component, even though I have left it for now, still very much care for as any other dedicated player might. And clearly, this is the only kind of response I am to be given by those who would disagree with me.then there is nothing We can do to help you.I think we noticed. So far help, let alone simple civility has been far from the order of the day as I think most readers have noticed by now.As for what you are attempting with your constant mudslinging and accusations, up to this point Munkinskian officials were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and simply assume that out of fear of change, or ignorance of other nations customs,So far, you have openly called me,

1) A hate filled bigot,
2) Now, you claim I'm afriad of change, and to top it all off,
3) Stupid in relation to customs. How nice. But, it gets better, when :you were insulting us unintentionally.You go on to portray me as some kind of bad guy here. I'm just on the edge of my seat now, you know, any moment I guess I'll be presented as the individual who shot JFK I'm sure.Your continued attacks on our decorum and intentions lead us to beleive you are either ignorant or just blind scared and refuse to see the truth for what it is.1) Again, you call me stupid,
2) And now your calling me blind, or even possibly a liar. It just goes on, does it not ?Either way, it makes you unreasonableYes. I'm quite sure by now you think me quite un-reasonable. Its probably quite rude of me to stick to my guns and my values. I'm probably breaking one of those " customs " mentioned earlier ... (and considering you are abandoning your duty to the world, by resigning your seat with the UN, I personally am more inclined to label you a coward.)Oh how very pleasent.

So now your even calling me a coward.
and therefor there is absolutely no reason to further explain ourselves to you.I personally think you forgot to start doing so in the first place.You are going to see conspiricy, plain and simple.Well, actually,

I and many others plainly saw a simple conspiracy.

By pointing fingers at any of the Goontopian Brotherhood, you are pointing fingers at all of us.I had thought I had covered the entire pointing fingers thing earlier. As such I fail to see why I must repeat myself again. After all, you have already made it quite clear you do not wish to explain to me any of these matters. God to see you have a firm grasp of diplomacy.We stand together.Is that not a bit difficult ? If you stand together, do you need to sit together too ? What about stairs ? Or elevators ? Does it not get a bit cramped in there ? Well, how-ever it works best for I'm sure.Our strength of characterAnd your genius tactics at manipluating the game ...and purposeAnd as said previous again,comes from a shared Brotherhood.Hmmm, it seems in this dystopian modern world, even online games, IM and forums are being given religious conotations. A conservative preacher from the U.S.A. bible belt is feeling very made for no apparent reason right now I'm sure ...I am sorry you cannot experiance such things where you come from.Yes ... because after that comment ...

I'm still going to be called the " bigot " am I ?

...

My word, it does go on a bit, I thought that was the end of it.

Oh dear, I think the worst is yet to come ... here we go ... I suppose ...

The intention I speak of is your intention to insult the Goontopian Brotherhood.Hmmm. Your right. I really should stop presenting evidence to my observations. No one likes that. Here-say, as you have made clear, is much more liked.The intention I speak of is to sling mud upon our Nations names and citizens in the eyes of the UN.You seem to be missing my point, I don't have a problem with the nations, or the " citizens " in them. The people running them how-ever are a completely different manner.In the words of my children, sir, You are 'shit talking'.So now,

I am to be openly told I am " talking shit ". Do you people have no limits to deploying this abuse ?

Whether or not your insults and slanderIt seems not.

Now I am most certainly being called a liar.were intentional or not was in question.You seem to misttake my intention with your perception.Not the intent of bringing peace, love, unity, and above all BrotherhoodSorry, I was to busy trying to re-inforce justice, respect, and above all, fair-play with what minor tools any player here might attempt.the nations of the world through proper legislation supported by the Goontopian Brotherhood.Don't make me laugh. This has been covered in previous circumstance where key figures, including delegates amoung the number of this " brother-hood " have proclaimed exactly opposite.That is no secret.After the region H.Q. posts, which I've noticed have suddenly dried up, I certainly agree.Our intentions are not hidden.I'll have to take your world on that. Its not exactly as if you have made your-selves directly available to observations ...As for this 'forums account' you speak of, I don't have the slightest clue as to what you are talking about.Yes, well, it wasn't you who told me, after all.Unless of course you mean the regional forums, which are public to any visiting dignitaries, from any nation, be it hostile or friendly.Of course, once again, details have hardly been forth-coming.The same is said for IM'ing.Though I suspect the information provided through such channels may be some-what ... well ... differing in content and applications ... diplomacy and " splinter numbers " are two different things I would think ...I do not know what you are talking about, and cannot provide you with any information regarding this.See no evil ? Hear no evil ? Post no evil I suppose.You might want to try sending a telegram to The Pointing Monkey and inquire with that government however.Yes, they have shown them-self to be an admirable driving force in all this.The Goontopian Brotherhood does not stand in the shadows.No, they stand together.We make ourselves very obviously known.Really ? We'd not noticed ...All our regions are named as such,Makes it easer to find'em for your own organisation of course. No point been silly about it, even now days in this online environment people need good logistics for ... things ...just so that scared governments with old leaders who are too fat and too comfortable in their seats of powerAnd now I'm supposed to be fat and lazy to. Oh, and greedy, judging by all the seat of power stuff.can see and hear what we are doing without having to break a sweat.Break a sweat ? I'm sure if we are all so fat and lazy we'd much rather be breaking sweetsIf we wished to hide in the shadows, as you so accuse us of doing, why on earth would we be naming our territories "Goontopia"? I'm afraid your fear is again clouding your reasoning.I figured the naming your-selves " goons " thing came from something awful forums ... I'm sure readers here can track that down on their own.

In conclusion,Oh no, and here I was with the hope you could call me something else !The Munkinskian Dictator wishes me to personally convey her disapointment in your nations leaders.Hmmm, wel, I guess this means I " dissapointing " right ? Although, if I'm " diss-a-pointing " may it be I'd not be " pointing " fingers as you your-self have " pointed " said fingers.

* And for all those who know my usual standard of humor, I'm a bit concerned by all the " finger-ing " going on. Should this not thus be general forum ? ;)They have allowed fear to cloud reason and judgement and with great regret she has decided to cease communication with you, as you have resigned from the UN, and you are openly hostile and angry with Munkinskian officials for no other reasons than our Nations affiliation with the Goontopian Brotherhood.So, I suppose that means you will in no circumstance be posting to me again. Further-more, I'm sorry you see me as being hostile and angry with you. I thought I'd done quite well under what I'd been suffered to take.

Still, I suppose that means nothing stops another " goon-topia " from stepping up to the plate, as it were ...She greives for you personally sir, because it is always sad to see such great leaders sink to such lows as you have.Considering I'm not aware I know your leader, or, for that matter, aware I had " sunk " to any such " low " ...

On second thoughts, I had noticed some people trying to drag me in their direction. Maybe that is what you saw.There will be a national day of mourning in Munkinski.Ummm ...

Sorry I made you cry ?

OOC: You might want to stop mixing your out of character comments with your in character comments. It gets a little confusing. And stop taking it so personally. It's just the internet. ;D" OMG " I nearly died in shock then ...

All of a sudden the " help " actually turns yup for real, so it seems. Well, I'd feel bad if I did not try my hand at helping you too.

1) Try mixing conversation with civility and see how you do in response to all your comments.

2) " And stop taking it so personally. It's just the internet. " ?

Hmmm, 3 things I'd like to mention.

A) Sir, do you know where you are ? Are you okay ? Because this is not " the inter-net " . Poor fellow, must have taken a knock to the head ...

B) Don't worry, I've not taken much of it personally. I am after all just a fat, lazy, blind, greedy, stupid, hate filled bigot, oh, and a liar. Good thing there is nothing for me to take personal, is it not.

C) I wonder, if according to whispers that have trickled down to me, if many other forum boards have heard that before they have been stormed in recent times ... I mean, that would be like an illusion of being grand turning into a dellusion of being the ATF ...

OOC: Come on boys, play nice.

Either way, it makes you unreasonable (and considering you are abandoning your duty to the world, by resigning your seat with the UN, I personally am more inclined to label you a coward.)
He isn't the one trying to abuse the democratic system by skewing regional representation.


By pointing fingers at any of the Goontopian Brotherhood, you are pointing fingers at all of us. We stand together.
This much is obvious, though I doubt the efficiency of your systems as it's been about two weeks since you've organized and all you've succeeded in is causing a stir with a marriage proposal.


Whether or not your insults and slander were intentional or not was in question. Not the intent of bringing peace, love, unity, and above all Brotherhood the nations of the world through proper legislation supported by the Goontopian Brotherhood.
I understand lobbying together to gain approving power, but the region/plinter number idea is something akin to gerrymandering, and, as such, inherently immoral even to a group such as the Goontpoian Brotherhood. Or so it is widely recognized in the civilized world. Ends versus means, I guess. Ends versus means.


That is no secret. Our intentions are not hidden. As for this 'forums account' you speak of, I don't have the slighest clue as to what you are talking about. Unless of course you mean the regional forums, which are public to any visiting dignitaries, from any nation, be it hostile or friendly. The same is said for IM'ing. I do not know what you are talking about, and cannot provide you with any information regarding this. You might want to try sending a telegram to The Pointing Monkey and inquire with that government however.


Oh, I definitely agree, there is no secret that the Goontopians wish to overthrow the fragile balance that had developed in the UN through approval-hording. And beleive me I will do everything in my power to inform the UN of which nations are goontopian, and publish the plots from your message boards.


The Goontopian Brotherhood does not stand in the shadows. We make ourselves very obviously known. All our regions are named as such, just so that scared governments with old leaders who are too fat and too comfortable in their seats of power can see and hear what we are doing without having to break a sweat. If we wished to hide in the shadows, as you so accuse us of doing, why on earth would we be naming our territories "Goontopia"? I'm afraid your fear is again clouding your reasoning.

Fear is clouding his reasoning? I wouldn't be talking about reasoning if I were a Goon. Goontopia has over 300 some nations in it and only about 50 actively trying to further the Goontopian way of misreporesenting the regional delegate corps. If you so desired, you could take the 137 approval votes outright, but I feel you lack the organization and leadership to make such a move...I mean you are, after all, goons.


In conclusion, The Munkinskian Dictator wishes me to personally convey her disapointment in your nations leaders. They have allowed fear to cloud reason and judgement and with great regret she has decided to cease communication with you, as you have resigned from the UN, and you are openly hostile and angry with Munkinskian officials for no other reasons than our Nations affiliation with the Goontopian Brotherhood. She greives for you personally sir, because it is always sad to see such great leaders sink to such lows as you have. There will be a national day of mourning in Munkinski.

As there will be a national day of excessive partying and joyous rioting in Powerhungry Chipmunks the day the Goontopians halt their trecherous plans


OOC: You might want to stop mixing your out of character comments with your in character comments. It gets a little confusing. And stop taking it so personally. It's just the internet. ;D

Since this is the UN forum it is assumed that the addresses in this forum are made in the UN building or assembly or in some similar manner. Although RP protocol is nice sometimes it's just easier to speak as though you were the representative from your country, rather than spend the extra time stating about how "my nation" stands or about this or that. I like RP, but sometimes we just have too much ground to cover.

Spoonskia would like it muchly if more UN delgates hit the bricks. You talk too much. talk=fluff. action=serious. Stop stooping to your foolerly, goons.

Goontopia exists as one in 4d but as many in your simple 1d world. Perhaps we multiple goons are the face of one in same manner? :headbang:

Spoonskia blah blah blah blah ad infinitum :headbang:
Would somebody please ring the recess bell and let Spoonskia back into his fourth-grade classroom? This guy is giving Goontopians a bad name.

Please, assembled ambassadors, please!

If the UN wishes to display its displeasure at the Goontopian scheme, then let it do so openly!

Is there not an International Security category of resolution? If the Goontopians really pose such a threat, then let the UN resolve against them.

Sirloinia, for one, will oppose such a motion with all my strength. King Brian of Sirloinia welcomes the Goontopians. The UN appears, from past debates, to be dominated by a liberal clique who are exclusively concerned with human rights issues, to the detriment of international solutions to the problems of immorality. We are proud to call the Goontopian Brotherhood our ally in the cause of moral decency.

If the UN feels that their actions are inappropriate, however, it must pass a resolution. All this mudslinging does the UN as an institution no credit. Without a resolution, its very credibility, indeed its dignity, is at stake.

Sirloinia, for one, will oppose such a motion with all my strength. Without a resolution, its very credibility, indeed its dignity, is at stake.
Frisbeeteria finds it strangely comforting to know that Sirloinia has a steak in this grilling battle.

Spoonskia would like it muchly if more UN delgates hit the bricks. You talk too much. talk=fluff. action=serious. Stop stooping to your foolerly, goons.

Goontopia exists as one in 4d but as many in your simple 1d world. Perhaps we multiple goons are the face of one in same manner? :headbang:

The majority of this is OOC:
I've been wondering about that. Multi-ing in the UN is sort of an under-the-carpet deal: most people just denounce it as unfair and assume no one's doing it, sweep the idea under the rug so they don't have to think about it. But, realistically, I've wondered if Goontopians aren't somehow doing this. At least, if the leaders aren't doing this.

I think, that in order to be safe from detection, a multi-er would need only to make certain that his or her nations are logged onto with different IP addresses. This could mean not logging on to more that one in a setting at the computer. This could also mean access to multiple connections. However, since the absolute least number of times a nation can be logged onto and still be an effective mutli-ing tool is once every 28 days, it is conceivable that one person simply getting on a different nation every day, could operate up to 28 nations...And he also has to have created 28 different email addresses but this is a one-time problem, and not beyond anybody who has several hours, a computer, and yahoo at his disposal. And that’s only getting on one nation a day.

But, after consideration, I doubt that it is very likely that the whole of the
Goontopian infrastructure is one person. First there's the aforementioned weight which would probably be too much for anyone to manage over 200 nations, keeping them alive and trying to use their voting power within the few days that a proposal is in the approval stage (unless, of course, he does absolutely nothing else with his time). Also there's the chatter that has been detected in the Goontopian regions. There is quite a bit of it. If it were one person this would seem too much to do, added upon the hassle of maintaining more than a hundred nations.

Also, much of the Goontopian regions are not as well organized as they should be tobe effective. There are too many regions that have between 3-5 nations for this to be the case. The ideal Goontopian existence is to have the goons out in pairs to maximize the number of regions->regional delegates->approvals->UN power. The fact that this 2 person region isn't always the case denotes a lack of communication. I find it unlikely that one person would have too much trouble communicating with himself.

That it isn’t all one person is trouble for the UN, because I would assume that one person would be easier to control. The propaganda/psychological combat against one person is infinitely easier than with masses of people of like mindsets (the synergy of the mob already is quite prevalent in NS, just look what happened to Piggy!).

I find no reason to believe that any Goontopians are multi-ing, even though this isn't unlikely. Especially with their leaders.

Frisbeeteria finds it strangely comforting to know that Sirloinia has a steak in this grilling battle.

:D

That terrible punning deserves a moral decency resolution in itself. :p

:D! Factorial!

Frisbeeteria finds it strangely comforting to know that Sirloinia has a steak in this grilling battle.
That's a rare thing to see nowadays.
Please, assembled ambassadors, please!

If the UN wishes to display its displeasure at the Goontopian scheme, then let it do so openly!

Is there not an International Security category of resolution? If the Goontopians really pose such a threat, then let the UN resolve against them.

Sirloinia, for one, will oppose such a motion with all my strength. King Brian of Sirloinia welcomes the Goontopians. The UN appears, from past debates, to be dominated by a liberal clique who are exclusively concerned with human rights issues, to the detriment of international solutions to the problems of immorality. We are proud to call the Goontopian Brotherhood our ally in the cause of moral decency.

If the UN feels that their actions are inappropriate, however, it must pass a resolution. All this mudslinging does the UN as an institution no credit. Without a resolution, its very credibility, indeed its dignity, is at stake.

This, I doubt would go over at all. UN resolutions are not allowed to change game mechanics or the way the game treats delegates' approvals. Thus there is nothing that the UN could do except pass a resolution denouncing the Goontopian cause (OOC: all effects of this would have to be RPed).

And as Goontopians own a dispropotionate ammount of real estate when compared to the remainder of the active delegates, it isn't very likely that such a resolution would get onto the floor, though it might surely pass if it got there.

Tears ran unchecked down Tim's face and he reached out blindly for comfort. Unthinkingly he petted the twin fluffy dice that had attached themselves to him; and they, seeking comfort also, snuffled woefully into his robe.

ooc: you crack me up!

ic: After 56 attempts, Felix Jethoscopes (http://www.benovision.co.uk/NS/FJethoscopes.jpg) manages to complete the first level DEMO of Death Ninja III (on easy setting) and looks up from the new game on his Cirdani phone.

Noting the emotion spilling down Brother Timothy's cheeks, he gives the young Priest a friendly chuck on the shoulder.

"There there my boy - I'm sure they'll be back soon"

"....Under some guise or another" The Shiree Professor continues under his breath.

He isn't the one trying to abuse the democratic system by skewing regional representation.
This much is obvious, though I doubt the efficiency of your systems as it's been about two weeks since you've organized and all you've succeeded in is causing a stir with a marriage proposal.
I understand lobbying together to gain approving power, but the region/plinter number idea is something akin to gerrymandering, and, as such, inherently immoral even to a group such as the Goontpoian Brotherhood. Or so it is widely recognized in the civilized world. Ends versus means, I guess. Ends versus means.
Oh, I definitely agree, there is no secret that the Goontopians wish to overthrow the fragile balance that had developed in the UN through approval-hording. And beleive me I will do everything in my power to inform the UN of which nations are goontopian, and publish the plots from your message boards.
Fear is clouding his reasoning? I wouldn't be talking about reasoning if I were a Goon. Goontopia has over 300 some nations in it and only about 50 actively trying to further the Goontopian way of misreporesenting the regional delegate corps. If you so desired, you could take the 137 approval votes outright, but I feel you lack the organization and leadership to make such a move...I mean you are, after all, goons.
As there will be a national day of excessive partying and joyous rioting in Powerhungry Chipmunks the day the Goontopians halt their trecherous plans
Since this is the UN forum it is assumed that the addresses in this forum are made in the UN building or assembly or in some similar manner. Although RP protocol is nice sometimes it's just easier to speak as though you were the representative from your country, rather than spend the extra time stating about how "my nation" stands or about this or that. I like RP, but sometimes we just have too much ground to cover.

I am sorry to understand that you are also allowing your fear and others misdirection cloud your judgement. In order to keep peace in the UN the Munkinskian Government will no longer communicate directly with you. These false accusations against the Goontopian Brotherhood hurt us deeply. We are sorrowful that our vision for world peace and love cannot be shared.

Blah blah drek drek.

The Munkinskian Government has nothing to say to openly hostile and willfully ignorant peoples sir.

OOC: No really kid, stop taking it personal, I'm just playing a game and I thought you were too. I'm not calling you anything. My character is communicating with your character. This is an RP board is it not? Really. Come on. This really honestly is just the internet.

I am sorry to understand that you are also allowing your fear and others misdirection cloud your judgement. In order to keep peace in the UN the Munkinskian Government will no longer communicate directly with you. These false accusations against the Goontopian Brotherhood hurt us deeply. We are sorrowful that our vision for world peace and love cannot be shared.

The UN representative from Powerhungry Chipmunks would like to understand which "accusations" he made which were false and refers the representative from Munkinski to the Powerhungry Chipmunks official statement on this thread (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=360832)


OOC: No really kid, stop taking it personal, I'm just playing a game and I thought you were too. I'm not calling you anything. My character is communicating with your character. This is an RP board is it not? Really. Come on. This really honestly is just the internet.

OOC: I realize that the Goontopians are new and everything, but you've said this already. Repeating it makes it look as though you are forcing your internet protocol upon him and isn't helpful. Plus, I'm not as sure as you seem that Komokom is a "kid"...

The UN representative from Powerhungry Chipmunks would like to understand which "accusations" he made which were false and refers the representative from Munkinski to the Powerhungry Chipmunks official statement on this thread (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=360832)

A small envelope delivered to your desk. Sealed with wax with an imprint of a smiling monkey. The paper inside is thick and the note handwritten.

"Accusing we of the Goontopian Brotherhood of attempting to 'abuse' democratic power is one such accusation. Your nations officials continue to speak out and speculate on our intentions and you purposefully present The Goontopian Brotherhood in a negative manner. You havn't bothered to even have tea with a Goontopian have you?

Sincerely,
Antionio Gillobresia,
Undersecretary to the Munkinskian Consolate of The Goontopian Brotherhood,
Charge of her Honor and our leader,
The Dictator."


OOC: I realize that the Goontopians are new and everything, but you've said this already. Repeating it makes it look as though you are forcing your internet protocol upon him and isn't helpful. Plus, I'm not as sure as you seem that Komokom is a "kid"...

I know I said it once, and while 'goontopia' is a new thing, some of us aren't exactly new to the game, nor new to RP'ing. I use the word kid when someone needs to [i]stop taking things so seriously. I'm not attempting to force anything, I'm just reminding someone (as they seem to be mixing their out of character opinions about me, and other goontopian members and supporters with their in character dialouge) that this is a game. We are playing the game right along with you.

Jeez, have some fun.

The Munkinskian Government has nothing to say to openly hostile and willfully ignorant peoples sir.1) The usual and less insulting method to indicate your talking about a particular block of text is along the lines of " <snip> ... </snip> " just so you know.

2) This was of course redundant, as you have already stated in the previous post regarding imyself, that you would not communicate with me again. Yet, you carry out this kind of provocative grand-standing. And you seem to think it reflects badly on me.

OOC: No really kid, stop taking it personal, I'm just playing a game and I thought you were too.Sorry, no point.I'm not calling you anything. My character is communicating with your character. This is an RP board is it not?Yes and no.

1) Yes, people RP, but :
2) No, they do not always RP.

In fact, many people have an IC character which is used to post their own OOC views on this particular forum. And, often they speak OOC here simply to allow for more rapid debate. Basically, this forum is kind of a hybrid, ergo we tend to try to be a bit more nice when we say things to one another. You know, civility and all that. Further-more, with-out regard to being IC or OOC when posting, there are still standards here of being polite to each other.Really. Come on. This really honestly is just the internet.Actually, this is Nation States, an online game created by an Australian, hosted by a company in the United Kingdom, and accessed by people all around the world by the internet. The internet is just a communication medium. But, with-out regard to who you are, or where you are, or how you got here, you have to abide by some basic rules and hopefully take note of a few more less basic ones. There, now, I think I have shown that I know where I am to an adequate extent. Happy now ?

Jethoscopes lowered his shades and continued to pop lo-budget UN corn-based snacks into his mouth and inadvertantly down the front of his robe, there appeared to be some kind of ruckus going on at the front. ...yep...oof! quite a little ding-dong. Pausing the game on his fone, the Professor tried to edge forward through the crowd, wondering vaguely if the proclamation he thought he was attending had finished or not - or perhaps continued elsewhere. In any case, the Billing of 'Munkinski Vs. Komokom Kid - The man who laid the smackdown on the past' had a nice ring to it, and looked like it was going the distance.