NationStates Jolt Archive

President Maffret..................

I am currently searching for someone who is a member of the UN, who has at least two endorsements, and someone who is willing to submit proposals on my behalf. My nation at this time disagrees with how the UN is operating but realizing that the UN has the only way to effect nations on a global scale we cannot afford to just let things as they are. I would like to give ideas for proposals and if someone can write them for me or i could write them myself then pass them on to you. I have very good ideas that would pass i am sure. I only ask that in the end my nation could be mentioned as having a part in the creation. If anyone is interested please let me know here or by T-gram. Thank you all.

I don't think I can help you, but I wish you good luck with your search.

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to assist a nation that isn't a member of the UN, and I hope nobody else will either.

If you wish input into this body, you should join this body. I don't care how good your ideas might be - if you're not willing to sign up, you should have no voice in the process. This is a democratic organization of members, and you're not a member.

Please go away until such time as you have a blue UN placard on your nationpage.

Please go away until such time as you have a blue UN placard on your nationpage.

Or a U.N. puppet like myself.

Or a U.N. puppet like myself.
[ooc]
I considered adding that, but decided against it. Any non-UN member is welcome to come in here and give their two cents worth about any proposal, but if they want to propose new law, it should be debated under the name of the UN nation. I have no objection to a player having multiple personas manifesting as different nations, but the cynical manipulation of using another player to propose changes by someone unwilling to pay the price irritates me no end.

[IC]
Lacomb has made it abundantly clear, in prior, vitriol-filled speeches, that it does not consider the current UN suitable to its needs. Now they wish to change it from outside in order to make the UN more suitable to their needs. I'm sorry, but Frisbeeteria doesn't accept that. Only members may vote, only members may select UN delegates, and only members may make proposals. If Lacomb isn't willing to abide by the same rules as those of us who WOULD accept those limitations as the price for the benefits, then as far as Frisbeeteria is concerned, they can stay the hell out.

Foreign Minister................

Yes. We are trying to change the UN to better suit ourselves. But, really isnt that what everyone in the Un is trying to do, to make the world better for themselves? Your on mark with the fact that our nation does not like certain UN ideas. What we are trying to do is simple yet politicaly speaking could do everyone a bit of good. The fact is if we (Lacomb) can get someone to propose one of our ideas in the UN then in time perhaps the UN will be better suited for our nation. I can see that this angers you a bit, but dont be angry, this is strictly a politcal move (quit Brilliant i may add) from our President. If in time some change comes around in the UN, i cannot say for sure, but we could reconsider our application. We can see th benifits the UN has but it is plagued (in our leaders opinion) by too much ignorance and closed mindedness. Our goal is to better th world and thats what we are trying to do, one resolution at a time. Our supporters will not include our nations name until the proposal has passed and is a resolution. We know that this may hurt some nations reputation, however we are sure that there are nations who support our ideas and are therefor ready to fight the good fight, so to speak. All of the support will be held in the utmost confidence. We would never ask anything illegal from the nation just thier support.

To the Governing Members of the nation of Lacomb:

We have received your communication and at this time can offer no such alliance for the proposal of ideas within the UN. Our own UN council has suggested the following measures which may or may not assist you.

1. If you have not already done so, you should join the UN. Nothing can be accomplished from outside these hallowed walls.
2. Write proposals and seek ideas on changes to be made. My own nation produced a proposal before ever becoming an endorsed member. You do not need endorsements to draft proposals and list them here for others to see.
3. Thoroughly familiarize yourself with proposals that have passed, and the proposal writing guide. Attacking an issue that has already been settled tends to upset the longer standing members.

After you have a proposal drafter and revised, then it would be wise to seek someone to submit the proposal, or to get the endorsements needed to do so yourself. But point one is the most important. If you do not join the UN, your nation has no bearing on the direction of our politics and your ideas are mostly meaningless. Those of us who are long standing members have taken the good with the bad, and stay so that our causes may continue to be heard.

--Kestral Lei
President, PEWF
Founder, NSSRC

President Maffret............

Thank you President Lei. However the whole objective is to see if a nation can influence the UN from the outside. There are alot of good nations and even great nations that do not belong to the UN and these nations may have some seriously good proposal ideas. Non-UN member states are still apart of the world and if i could change it for the better then i will try. My nation and i agree that participation in the UN is just not for us right now. We are waiting for our application with NATO and beleive that alot of good can be accomplished thre but on a global scale we must change the UN. I am sorry that you do not wish to assist us in this matter but hope that our current endeavor does not hinder our peaceful situation. Please feel free to communicate with us on any subject anytime. We are still going to search for some assistance from a UN delagate or member. We beleive we can do th world some good, from the outside.

Or a U.N. puppet like myself.

Have you considered the possibility that his nation might already have a UN puppet here amongst us?

My nation agrees with Frisbeeteria. It is fine to come here and observe and even add your nation's voice into the mix, but it really is unfair to "pick" and "choose" laws by asking other nations to pass laws upon our nations with no intention of joining.

I'm more than a bit troubled by this request.

I am sorry that you do not wish to assist us in this matter but hope that our current endeavor does not hinder our peaceful situation. We are still going to search for some assistance from a UN delagate or member. We beleive we can do th world some good, from the outside.
"No sir. I say again, NO. Not only will we not assist you, we will actively oppose you."

"President Maffret, would you walk into a restaurant, eat a fine meal, and then wave your arms at the other patrons and demand that they pay for your dinner? If you are in any way a Man of Honor, you most certainly would not. Even though you have never traded with any Frisbeeterian Corporation, would you walk into one of our manufacturing facilites, and demand that we stop making sewing machines and start making fighter jets? I would hope that you have sense enough not to do something that foolish. But then, I assume that most Ambassadors are Men of Honor. Perhaps I am mistaken."

"This is in no way different. You want us to change to suit you, but you refuse to pay the price for your choice. I say thee Nay, and NAY again. You've got a lot of nerve showing up at all, after the way you last left. You get what you pay for, and Lacomb pays for nothing. And nothing is all you'll get in return."

Donovan turns his back on the speaker from Lacomb and strides quickly away from the podium. The hall falls silent for just a moment at this extreme breach of protocol, but the murmurs pick up rapidly as soon as he steps out of sight.

Have you considered the possibility that his nation might already have a UN puppet here amongst us?

Of course. I always consider the possibilities.

Honestly, I just don't want to be incovenienced by having to propose the kid's stuff. It's not that it would really be any trouble for me, what with my U.N. puppet having well over the required number of endorsements and the ease with which proposals are submitted, but I'm lazy.

T-gram Farflorin (my U.N. puppet and also delegate). We'll help. But, we reserve the right ro reject a proposal IF it is counterproductive if presented to the UN.

ooc: I really don't give a damn; I don't take the NS UN seriously.

From the desk of Her Totally Awesome Highness, Princess Britney:

Like, um, no. If I have to put up with their crap, so do you. 'Cause I thought about this (which means that I have to go in for new wrinkle treatment now, and I'm sending you the bill), and realized there's only two things that could be going on.

Either you're not in the U.N. and don't have a puppet, in which case you should make one, right? 'Cause it's totally unfair to have someone else doing your work for you unless you pay them lots and lots of money like I do.

Or you've got a puppet, in which case you're just doing some weird thing where you're trying to get other people to take the fire on your proposals if they go down. And, like, that's not fair either.

I am so totally smart.

I am unable to make a complete decision without seeing what your ideas are, however my first impression is to decline your request.

Either you're not in the U.N. and don't have a puppet, in which case you should make one, right? 'Cause it's totally unfair to have someone else doing your work for you unless you pay them lots and lots of money like I do.

Or you've got a puppet, in which case you're just doing some weird thing where you're trying to get other people to take the fire on your proposals if they go down. And, like, that's not fair either.

I am so totally smart.

I'd say this is a pretty logical analysis.

It is possible that he can't have a UN puppet too ... I'm not sure what the penalty for multi-UNing, but it would make sense that the mods would then simply take away that IP addresses right to create new UN nations. But actually in this case, my hunch is that your second theory applies here. He'd like a patsy to test the waters on this one.

My advise to anybody submitting other people's proposals ... the moderators do delete proposals. While they can be patient, they can also be equally swift to act. Before you submit anybody else's proposal, consider inviting them to your region and endorsing them. Allow them to take the risk of moderator wrath.

It is possible that he can't have a UN puppet too ... I'm not sure what the penalty for multi-UNing...
[in this context, a UN puppet is generally a throwaway nation that is a member of the UN ... while the primary nation is NOT. Thus, their main nation doesn't have the negative effects of UN membership, but they still have all the benefits. There is no multi aspect involved, hence no penalty.]

OOC: I dislike the idea of subbing in a puppet to spare your main nation the ill effects of the UN's loopier moments. How do you justify roleplaying the effects when they haven't actually taken place? Either your nation is willing to take the UN, warts and all, or it's not, in which case it should resign its membership. Were the UN to pass anything irrevocably damaging to Ecopoeia, I would resign its membership. I have other nations (I hesitate to describe them as puppets) and may have one of them join in order to continue participation in debates; however, IC contributions would change accordingly (for example, one nation is a Moralistic Democracy, which ain't exactly in keeping with Ecopoeia's philosophy as a Civil Rights Lovefest).

I'll help you out if I agree on the proposal. Telegram me and well talk about it.

To the Leaders of Frisbeeteria,

I would normally agree with you about the whole honor issue. However this is politics my friend and in politics we do whatever we must for the betterment of who we serve. It is your right to activley seek opposision against me and i do not and will not hinder that. But, nevertheless Lacomb will continue to seek improvement where ever possible. I do hope that the events here would not keep you from ever seeking assistance from Lacomb. We do not hold grudges or the like and if the nation of Frisbeeteria would ever call on us for assistance outside the UN we would be most happy to assist. To other nations, I only seek a betterment of the world we all live in. People are right Lacomb does not want the ill effects of the UN and we do wish to change it if we can. I am sure other nations have done the same thing, allthough i accuse noone, but they did so in secret. I beleive that by being honest and forthright Lacomb will gain a larger pool of nations to assist. thank you for the time to speak.

OOC------
I do not have a UN puppet. I know i can have one, but somehow that would take all the fun out of it for me. I would rather do it this way, it creates debate and thought for everyone.

People are right Lacomb does not want the ill effects of the UN and we do wish to change it if we can. I am sure other nations have done the same thing, allthough i accuse noone, but they did so in secret.

FACT: UN members and non members enter into bi-lateral agreements. I'll be happy to provide you the text and treaty of some of the East Pacific, West Pacific, and North Pacific treaties. Even the IDU has a small written "resolution" that we, IDU members, all agree to.

QUESTION: What makes your idea so much better that you must force it upon us, without your nation having to be held to that idea, but all of these other NationStates treaties not good enough?

If your "Convention", "Accord", or "Treaty" is good, our nations will join it without the UN being involved, but the fact that you are "picking" and "choosing" what you personally (your nation of course) dislikes, sounds to me like you wish to make our nations follow your rule without allowing us the same sovereignty you claim to enjoy.

What your nation is suggesting is manipulative and selfish. Pure and simple. Your nation's idea doesn't deserve a UN mandate if it isn't willing to abide by the same rules it wishes to force upon the rest of us.

President Maffret--

To the Nation of Mikitivity,

In response to your valid questions i would say first that anything i purpose to the UN via an Aid is already in effect in our nation of Lacomb. As for why my ideas are better, well in fact purhaps they are not better than everyone elses but in our nation they work and i do beleive that they could work in th world. My ideas on proposals generaly do not involve law making in the harsh sense rather purposing a change to nations that could possibly improve our (the worlds) way of life or just make it a little easier. As for forcing my ideas on you...all i wish to do is bring some of my ideas to vote, if the majority votes for then i do not force anything but your UN would force it. I do not wish to force anything on anyone nation, i simply wish to offer my ideas up to the UN for vote, via an Aid. As i have said to The Nation of frisbeeteria, this is a political move and it involves the politics of th UN. I do not wish this to effect our nations beyond the UN. should ever the Nation of Mikitivity need something from Lacomb please ask, we are always looking to help the world and our nation neighbors. Thank you for your input, i encourage solid opinions for or against my national ideas.

I do not wish to force anything on anyone nation, i simply wish to offer my ideas up to the UN for vote, via an Aid.

Why should we follow your nation's resolution, but your nation shouldn't be expected to follow other UN laws?

Basically why are you above UN law (i.e. international law is optional for your nation), but feel the UN is still OK to force the rest of us to follow your wishes?

What you are suggesting is called a Double-Standard!

President Maffret----

I only intend to offer up the proposal, if enough nations vote for it, then it is the UN who forces you to abide by it. I am offering betterment to the world and all you are concered about is why am i better than the rest of you. I am not better, as i have said any proposal that i offer Lacomb will or already follows. It is not a double standard, simply just one nation trying to help out from the outside. Alot of good can come from this. I f any nation can or would like to assist me in this effeort to better the world please t-gram me and i will talk to you. My ideas are sound and they do follow with my political party. Instead of worrying what my nation follows or does not follow, give the proposal a chance, you may actually like what you read and vote for the idea. But please continue to voice your opinions, all constructive ideas are valid.

Your homework:
"You can't eat your pudding, if you don't eat your meat."

Think about it for a week. Until then .. *fssst hzzzt* ... it seems your messages *pop ctzkt* up.

To the governing members of Lacomb:

We, the PEWF, feel that the UN member nations have made their opinions clear with regard to your supposed proposal. We have not seen any proposal offered by your nation, even in a draft form, so that the issue may be debated. We, the PEWF, feel you are approaching this from the wrong direction completely, and do not believe any member of the UN will blindly offer to submit any proposal on your behalf.

Firstly, your proposal should be drafted, posted, and debated.
Secondly, ANY proposal you wish to see passed would have a great deal more weight (in debate and defence) should your country decide to join the UN, and take the good with the bad.

We, the PEWF (and presumably many older members of the NS UN) feel that any nation who would seek to submit a proposal, but not participate in the UN, is attempting to impose their own standards without accepting the true consequences of submittal to international law.
We are subjected to the changes of our political freedoms, economy, and civil rights by passed UN proposals. As an outsider, you are not subjected to any international laws established by this governing body.

Therefore; we say again, your nation will not receive any assistance in this matter, and quite possibly, your proposal will be vehemently rejected and rallied against for GP. The voices who have spoken here should surely show you that we do not take kindly to an outsider's opinion, when we know your nation does not share the possible impositions of international law. Until such time as it does, keep you opinions kindly to yourself.

Kestral Lei
President, PEWF
Founder, NSSRC
RD, NSSRC

President Maffret,

Thank you all for your opinions. I am still going through with my idea, sorry. I did think about what you had to say regarding the post of one of my ideas. So here goes, I'm going to post an example idea and would hope this would be ok. If you like what it has to say by all means let me know or even help me put it to the UN. If you do not like it please explain why and offer some help to make it something you would vote for.
------------------------------------
Cat:Social Justice
Strength:Mild

International Literacy Day and Literacy Month

Holy Republic of Lacomb Office of the President

Proclamation

Whereas,The nation of Lacomb recognizes the importance of an educated literate society for the overall health and well being of our world; and

Whereas,Reading and comprehension skills provide a foundation of literacy and life long learning that is critical to the future success of all citizens and all nations; and

Whereas,The nation of Lacomb, commends public library's and the many dedicated volunteers and staff members of literacy organizations, each of whom have helped millions of children and adults in thier communities to improve thier literacy skills; and

Whereas, Encourage all citizens to join in efforts to spread the gift of literacy and learning to all people, and to experience for themselves the wonderful enrichment books and reading bring into our lives.

Now therefore, I, Albert J. Maffret, President of the Holy Republic of Lacomb, do hereby proclaim September 29, 2004 and the month of September to be International Literacy Day and Literacy Month.

I call upon all nations, to recognize the need in the world for Literate and Educated people's. For all nations to recognize this day and month and during this time and always encourage our citizens to read. I would "encourage" all nations to improve thier Public library's and literacy organizations through government funding. To create and fund new literacy programs that would benefit people of all ages. To note that not all citizens are capable to read without assistance from automated devices and to encourage these devices to be available to the public. Also for all nations to work together to improve foreign language reading.

Thank you,
President Maffret
--------------------------------------------------------
Now this is just an example of some of my ideas. If someone wishes to use this they may alter it slightly if they feel the need. I am just trying to better the world, one resolution at a time. Please as i have said before feel free to give some constructive opinions.

President Maffret-----

I would like to use this proposal so if someone in the UN can help me that would be great. Also please if you some opinions or ideas on how to make it better tell me. This is of course my first proposal.

I would like to use this proposal so if someone in the UN can help me that would be great. Also please if you some opinions or ideas on how to make it better tell me. This is of course my first proposal.
THIS is the sort of world-changing proposal you want to offer? For this you won't join the UN? You waste our time with this twaddle. "Literacy Day"? Bah.
Now this is just an example of some of my ideas.Oh by all means, bring 'em on. The UN Diplomatic Suite doesn't get Comedy Central, so we could use a good giggle.

Thank you for your opinion, Frisbeeteria. Ill note that you dont want literate folks in your nation.

Thank you for your opinion, Frisbeeteria. Ill note that you dont want literate folks in your nation.
And what, pray tell, does this proposal of yours actually DO to promote literacy? You have no mechanism, no purpose. All you're doing is designating a Day and a Month to celebrate the concept. You want to add this to the calendars sold in Lacomb? Go right ahead, nobody's stopping you.

We don't need a UN resolution for this. This is a serious organization, attempting to address serious problems. This does nothing whatsoever to address any of them.

Go away.

Proclomation
By the way, shouldn't a proposal calling for literacy awareness at least be spelled correctly?

*applauds*

Here, here Frisbeeteria.

To the governing ignorants of Lacomb:

You wish to promote literacy, yet can not invest in a simple mechanism, or intelligent person to proof your proposals?
You want to spread literacy, but make no actual plans for ways to increase it? All I see are vague ambiguities, but nothing substantial.

All this for a proposal you feel so confident in, but can not be bothered with the process that it would take to see it to fruition?

YOU sir (or madame, as the case may be) have no reason for darkening our hallways except to sell your own liberal *censors self*. Worse than that, you can not be bothered to truly support this within the UN, because you do not wish to soil yourself with our suppresive governing filth. That alone speaks volumes regarding your proposal, and your condemnation of the UN, without participation, sicken us.

Perpetrators, collaborators, bystanders, victims: we can be clear about three of these categories. The bystander, however, is the fulcrum. If there are enough notable exceptions, then protest reaches a critical mass. We don’t usually think of history as being shaped by silence, but, as English philosopher Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

You are nothing more than a bystander; and we are, quite frankly, tire of listening to your damnation preachings on our street corners.

After careful consideration, I have decided not to help you. If you want to submit this drivel to the UN you need to join and do it yourself.

President Maffret,

Again thank you all for your input. As i have said this is only an example. Of course i am not going to reveil my true proposals, because then you would not vote for them should they make it to vote. Look, we are all adults here, the Literacy thing (is a good idea, that needs some work) was just to show people that i can provide a nicely, well written proposal. Now i dont get to spend all day working on this thing, i do have other duties(OOC: i work alot so i only get an hour and a half at most to be here) in the Government. I have pre-written some proposals and all i have to do is type them up and add them for someone. I do have some takers, i wont mention who, but in time my allies may be reveiled. I would ask that noone take this personal.
Thank you again for everyone's input.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OOC:Just to let everyone know that this literacy day and month thing has a real world model. The RL UN doesapoint special days and months for things like Cancer awareness and literacy just to name a couple. So you may think that all the UN does is really important stuff like creating laws, just to create them but the RL UN does alot more....now i know that this is NOT RL and this is NOT RL UN, i myself have made it clear. However ive seen that the treand is for proposals to be closley related to RL issues, as some have argued. Plus i thought this would provide us with something else, something fresh. I will continue to recruit assistance from the UN until i have a few allies to chose from. Lastly, if some one could give me an idea of what you would like to see improved with the current proposal on this thread so that it would be worthy of your vote, please help me, instead of just beating it with a stick because you dont like how im going about proposing it, that would be nice.

OOC:The RL UN doesapoint special days and months for things like Cancer awareness and literacy just to name a couple. So you may think that all the UN does is really important stuff like creating laws, just to create them but the RL UN does alot more
[also OOC]
Yes, they do. As does the US Congress. In both cases, the proposals are quietly added to the official record and are generally not debated in legislative session. This sort of practice is typically done to throw a political bone to whatever group is being courted at the moment, and has no real impact whatsoever. As such, I for one have no objection to someone starting a role-play topic to promote their cause-of-the-moment. I just don't want to EVER see such proposals showing up on the Passed list.

You should also be aware that the entirety of this discussion has been IC, and that OOC you're probably a fine fella, as am I. IC, however, you're an annoying gadfly interfering in a working session of the UN General Assembly, and will most like continue to be treated as such.
[/OOC]

OOc: Frisbeeteria, you quite right, i can be very present when im not wanted, IC of course. But alas, i am RP'ing after all. I thought this would be a good idea on how to stir things up in the forum, it just seemed to be going flat a little. So i have come to the rescue, DA..da..daaa!!! Anyway, i am going to continue, but not because i want people to hate me rather, just to do something different. I think in the long run this may work out....for me that is!! OKay, but to IC now.............


IC: President Maffret,
I have appointed a new leader for our newly aquired territory, Devil's Island. His name is "Buy". Buy, is going to take my place here in the UN for debate purpose since i am going back to our nation. It seems we have a very disturbing problem that i must attend to. Please, buy has my authority here, thank you.

Leader of Devils Island, Mr. Buy------

Thank you members of the UN for your time. Submission of our first proposal is coming soon.