NationStates Jolt Archive

(Extracts from a speech given by Cardinal Poobar, Temporary Executive Officer of the Theocracy of the Holy Word earlier today)

Friends,

Recently there has been much talk about some kind of organisation as an alternative to the liberal UN. Well, I say to you, stop being such cowardly defeatists. Yes, the liberal policies being currently passed by the UN are an affront to our beliefs as well. But look deep inside your hearts and ask yourselfs this, who's fault is it really? No, not the liberal nations. Not the humanists. Not even the forces of godless communism. The fault lies with you and us and every conservative nation.

Too many conservative nations decide, on realising that reform of the UN will not happen overnight, take the cowards way out and resign. And I say to you that is not acceptable.

What can we do? Simple. Develop our arguments so we can beat the liberals at their own game. We will win this by presenting the best motions. Recruit the UN. If there is a conservative nation in your region which is not a UN member ask them how they expect to win the war if they don't enter the battlefield in the first place.

With courage and moral strengh we can win. But it will take a lot more backbone then being shown by certain nations recently. Right is on our side. May the Shining One bless you all with his light.

(Speech ends to raptorus applause from assembled crowd)

I'll oppose you every step of the way with my godless liberal socialism, but from another perspective - good speech, good move, and well said. I'm all far a more inclusive United Nations; surely that's the point?

Markodonia we will beat you and your ideology, enjoy your reign while it last.

I applaud any nation that is willing to enter the United Nations intending to discuss proposals and resolutions in a calm manner. Welcome, and I hope you have fun during your stay here.

Markodonia we will beat you and your ideology, enjoy your reign while it last.If the right wing is to prevail in the UN, it will have to do so by persuasion and diplomacy, by reasoned arguments and sensible compromises. Coming in with this attitude will just make your opponents dig in their heels harder...and then, you'll lose.

Well stated The Holy Word I’m with you a 100% I’ll mention one outstanding regions name Gatesville.

Well stated The Holy Word I’m with you a 100% I’ll mention one outstanding regions name Gatesville.
Absolutely, Gatesville are a region of courageous and morally upstanding nations.











You do realise I'm a member?

hm......Why is everything a war? A battle? Sure, my beliefs are more on the liberal side, but that doesn't mean I hate all conservatives! and boy does it sound cliche, but "Can't we all just get along??" anyway, that's what I think. So there! heh...
:confused:

Curiously, the reason we haven't considered UN membership is that we've found their policymaking conservative and reactionary. Following their directives would make life difficult to many of or citizens.

For anyone who is unaware of previous "Damn Liberal bastards run the UN and are wrecking it for us conservatives!" topics, here's your chance to educate yourselves. I just took a short walk through the older topics in this forum (started at the beginning, made it up to March 04) and gathered some of the longer threads with titles and responses that reflected that attitude.

Here now, for your reading pleasure:
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=278070
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=281309
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=280507
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=284488
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=285240
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=292613
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=294347
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=292456
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=294815
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=303471
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=308427

Well, we're in it for the long-run. Not that I like losing, but if there's no conservative voice then the libs win by default. No sense making it easy...

(Extracts from a speech given by Cardinal Poobar, Temporary Executive Officer of the Theocracy of the Holy Word earlier today)

Friends,

Recently there has been much talk about some kind of organisation as an alternative to the liberal UN. Well, I say to you, stop being such cowardly defeatists. Yes, the liberal policies being currently passed by the UN are an affront to our beliefs as well. But look deep inside your hearts and ask yourselfs this, who's fault is it really? No, not the liberal nations. Not the humanists. Not even the forces of godless communism. The fault lies with you and us and every conservative nation.

Too many conservative nations decide, on realising that reform of the UN will not happen overnight, take the cowards way out and resign. And I say to you that is not acceptable.

What can we do? Simple. Develop our arguments so we can beat the liberals at their own game. We will win this by presenting the best motions. Recruit the UN. If there is a conservative nation in your region which is not a UN member ask them how they expect to win the war if they don't enter the battlefield in the first place.

With courage and moral strengh we can win. But it will take a lot more backbone then being shown by certain nations recently. Right is on our side. May the Shining One bless you all with his light.

(Speech ends to raptorus applause from assembled crowd)

Interesting idea,... but simply being in the UN violates my sovereignty and my culture, therefore I must respectfully decline your suggestion that I resubmit my nation to the nationstate of the UN and it's provincial governments, such as your own.

The ruling cliques within the UN can not be swayed by "reason" or "argument".

They truly believe that their UN, a world nation, a world legislative body with police power to enforce it's collective will on it's member provinces, is a just and good thing.

That basic difference makes the UN unworthy of my nation's membership.

Even if you, and your ilk, were to gain power and mold the UN in your image, you would still be unworthy of our membership, because you would still violate my nation and sovereignty were we to join.

The UN as constituted is simply an illegitimate body to my nation.

Your "control" of it would be just as bad, and quite possibly worse.

May you and your sibling provinces of the UN fair well in your endeavors, and may you tie yourselves in knots with your perverse thinking, as is your habit.

Sitting in the centre, I applaud your efforts. However, a simple speech is not going to solve the problems.
What are the problems? That many nations feel that joining the UN violates their sovreignty; that some groups (such as the Conservatives) feel that a Liberal agenda is being pushed.
The second problem is almost inevitable, given the way that the UN is set up. A temporary majority can use the UN to accelerate their goals; this discourages membership by any nation with different political goals and so turns a temporary majority into a permanent majority. Note that fixing the symptom (liberal domination) won't solve the problem - liberals would merely be replaced by a different group.
However, a possible solution would be to begin crafting resolutions specifically to encourage membership by Conservative nations. What you need to do is to think of issues on which Liberal and Conservative nations will be in broad agreement, and begin submitting resolutions on these issues. They can be passed by the liberal majority, but provide conservatives with the motivation to join.
The sovreignty issue is more serious, but can I believe be addressed (if not solved) in a similar fashion. If the UN resolves to foreswear involvement in various internal concerns, this should benefit everyone.

Sitting in the centre, I applaud your efforts. However, a simple speech is not going to solve the problems.
What are the problems? That many nations feel that joining the UN violates their sovreignty; that some groups (such as the Conservatives) feel that a Liberal agenda is being pushed.
The second problem is almost inevitable, given the way that the UN is set up. A temporary majority can use the UN to accelerate their goals; this discourages membership by any nation with different political goals and so turns a temporary majority into a permanent majority. Note that fixing the symptom (liberal domination) won't solve the problem - liberals would merely be replaced by a different group.
However, a possible solution would be to begin crafting resolutions specifically to encourage membership by Conservative nations. What you need to do is to think of issues on which Liberal and Conservative nations will be in broad agreement, and begin submitting resolutions on these issues. They can be passed by the liberal majority, but provide conservatives with the motivation to join.
The sovreignty issue is more serious, but can I believe be addressed (if not solved) in a similar fashion. If the UN resolves to foreswear involvement in various internal concerns, this should benefit everyone.

One simple resolution would do the trick:

"The UN resolves that it has no enforcement power to act as a body of governance or legislation upon any member nation or non-member nation, and leaves free all nations to enforce their will as they see fit as individual nationstates or associations of nationstates."

Comments..?

One simple resolution would do the trick:

"The UN resolves that it has no enforcement power to act as a body of governance or legislation upon any member nation or non-member nation, and leaves free all nations to enforce their will as they see fit as individual nationstates or associations of nationstates."

Comments..?
That ability is as close as the "Resign from the UN" button. As for making it compulsary ... again, and for the umpteenth time, Iakeokeo ... anti-UN national sovereignty arguments violate game mechanics. The UN DOES have enforcement powers, they're hard-coded into the game, and you can't repeal them.

Apart from that, the language is real purty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
One simple resolution would do the trick:

"The UN resolves that it has no enforcement power to act as a body of governance or legislation upon any member nation or non-member nation, and leaves free all nations to enforce their will as they see fit as individual nationstates or associations of nationstates."

Comments..?


That ability is as close as the "Resign from the UN" button. As for making it compulsary ... again, and for the umpteenth time, Iakeokeo ... anti-UN national sovereignty arguments violate game mechanics. The UN DOES have enforcement powers, they're hard-coded into the game, and you can't repeal them.

Apart from that, the language is real purty.

You, great one (Fris), may call me Iake..!

We have erected a tiki statue to you in several of our villages, by the way.

You have actually achieved the status of mythical hero, and all around nifty word-warrior, within my nation and culture.

And I'm not ARGUING anything, great one. I merely state my opinion as permitted within this august (illegitimate) body. :)

I do not argue with anyone, by the way. I do not seek to change anyone's mind.

I merely state my opinions. My culture considers it the height of rudeness to even consider to try to change other people's minds.

If my opinion gives you something to think on,... then I've done my work.

If my opinion pisses you off,... then you need to do some work.

I said the language was purty, didn't I?

I said the language was purty, didn't I?

Love you too..! :D

The moderate-social-liberal nation of JRV will continue to counter fundamentalist-religious-conservatism every minute of every hour of every day, of every week!

On saying that, JRV respects the views of conservatives and feels no hatred or dislike of any kind towards them. After all, the right to free speech is held dear by us!

----
Rt. Hon. Hunt,
JRV Ambassador to the United Nations

The moderate-social-liberal nation of JRV will continue to counter fundamentalist-religious-conservatism every minute of every hour of every day, of every week!

On saying that, JRV respects the views of conservatives and feels no hatred or dislike of any kind towards them. After all, the right to free speech is held dear by us!

----
Rt. Hon. Hunt,
JRV Ambassador to the United Nations

You are a great one, Great One..! My people respect you as well.

Though,.. my nation is more of a simplistico-universalist-sarcastism oriented political culture....

So, you may not be refering to me...

Still Love 'Ya Fris....! :D

Originally Posted by Iakeokeo
One simple resolution would do the trick:

"The UN resolves that it has no enforcement power to act as a body of governance or legislation upon any member nation or non-member nation, and leaves free all nations to enforce their will as they see fit as individual nationstates or associations of nationstates."

Comments..?

That ability is as close as the "Resign from the UN" button. As for making it compulsary ... again, and for the umpteenth time, Iakeokeo ... anti-UN national sovereignty arguments violate game mechanics. The UN DOES have enforcement powers, they're hard-coded into the game, and you can't repeal them.

Yes - but there is a way around this. The UN cannot override an earlier resolution, so a resolution stating that "issue X" must be handled internally prevents future UN resolutions on the issue.

Of course, this means that sovreignty cannot be returned on any issue which has already been voted on, as that would violate the rule regarding no overturning previous resolutions. However, perhaps the Conservatives would care to list a few issues which they consider should be protected?

Of course, this means that sovreignty cannot be returned on any issue which has already been voted on, as that would violate the rule regarding no overturning previous resolutions. However, perhaps the Conservatives would care to list a few issues which they consider should be protected?

This is entirely OOC

While overturning resolutions is a no, that doesen't stop loopholes being exploited. So it would be impossible to overturn the legalisation of gay marriage. However there is nothing stopping a motion being proposed allowing goverments to issue "marriage licences" at their discretion.

Equally the easiest way to overturn the whaling ban (if there was the support there which there currently isn't) would be to propose a motion clarifying the legal defination of whales as being applicable to humpback whales only.

Holy Word:

Though I shy away from using the word conservative in describing ourselves (since it often conotates classical liberals who are to us one in the same as run of the mill liberals) I do agree with your remarks. Perhaps because we too are Theocrats.

We're also traditionally minded and alarmed by what we see as undue United Nations meddling in our internal affairs. Whether the arena is political, economic, legal, or moral. Not every nation wants to transform themselves into a godless liberal liberty-loving pluralistic democracy.

Yet like you we agree the United Nations is worth fighting for. We're a peaceful pacific nation that strongly believes in a body where nations can forge common bonds to create harmony. Promotion of peace and understanding, economic trade, and cultural exchanges can be valuable. This can be done without interfering in a nations internal affairs.

The Maximum Leader of the Theocracy of Rajaria gives his fraternal greetings and his appreciation for the wise remarks of your nation.