NationStates Jolt Archive

i hope this is the right forum

The Inuit Free State of Kalaallit Nunaat wants to apply for an exemption to the resolution against whaling which just passed. The Free State is not a UN Member but tries to live by UN resolutons anyway. But this one is a problem for us. We are an indigenous people and whaling is central to our way of life. It is sustainable whaling but the whales are still killed for meat, oil, bone and spiritual reasons. Please put us on the exempt list, thank you for your support.
- Susan Aglukark
President of Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland)

The Free State [of Kalaallit Nunaat] is not a UN Member but tries to live by UN resolutons anyway.

Since the Free State is following UN resolutions on its own accord, we believe that it is up to the Free State's discretion whether or not it is exempted from this resolution.

We're sure the other UN members will be fine with this.

We agree with the aforementioned opinion. The law of the United Nations is only binding if you're a member. In exchange for voting rights, you make yourself accountable to the decisions of the General Assembly. Since your nation is not a UN member, all UN resolutions are optional recommendations from a supra-national organization.

We agree with the aforementioned opinion. The law of the United Nations is only binding if you're a member. In exchange for voting rights, you make yourself accountable to the decisions of the General Assembly. Since your nation is not a UN member, all UN resolutions are optional recommendations from a supra-national organization.

The Inuit Free State of Kalaallit Nunaat have also stated that they make a point to follow in spirit all UN resolutions. This is very admirable indeed. It sounds as if what they are asking is that their nation be included on the register established here:


* Indigenous peoples who engage in 'aboriginal whaling' using traditional non-industrial methods and taking only a small number of whales each year, to be exempt from the ban. A register of such peoples to be set up by the UN.


My government applauds the Kalallit Nunaat for both following the spirit of UN resolutions and taking an interest in the UN register of aboriginal whaling nations.

As a people (Knootians) indigenous to Knootoss we are also applying for an exemption. We have a fine, longstanding tradition of hunting whales, and have done so since 1612.

http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/zappengine/objects/walvis.jpg
A plate depicting
Knootian whalehunting in the 17th century

Given our rich cultural tradition of exploiting the seas, it would seem only natural that this business, that fathers have taught their sons and occasionally also uneducated immigrants continues.

http://www.planet.nl/upload_mm/0/9/5/1957887636_1999995909_whaling.jpg
A rich cultural tradition continued today.

As a people (Knootians) indigenous to Knootoss we are also applying for an exemption. We have a fine, longstanding tradition of hunting whales, and have done so since 1612.
This appears to be a photograph of commercial whaling. Per the UN resolution, "Unlicenced scientific and all commercial whaling are outlawed in international law." Or do you contend that you qualify for an exemption as an aboriginal whaler? * Indigenous peoples who engage in 'aboriginal whaling' using traditional non-industrial methods and taking only a small number of whales each year, to be exempt from the ban. A register of such peoples to be set up by the UN.A tradititon of commercial whaling doesn't qualify you for the exemption.

We have a fine, longstanding tradition of hunting whales, and have done so since 1612.

A plate depicting
Knootian whalehunting in the 16th century


1612 is 17th century.

A plate depicting whaling made in the 16th century might imply a tradition that began prior to 1612. Unless of course "time" is labeled differently in NationStates.

::rollseyes::

Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Negolonjo
Official Letter No. 508


Dear representatives of the United Nations,

on behalf of the Chengars, a minority people living along the sea coast of the Free Land of Smagganuk, we do hereby apply for exemption from the Whaling resolution. The Chengar are one of the 5 ancient tribes that live within Smagganuk. Since they are a people of the sea, their traditional main source of food is fish, seals and whales. Their tradition of whaling is beleived to stretch all the way back to the Ice Age. The total number of whales caught by the Chengar is estimated to 60 to 100, dominated by the quite common Spreckled Dolphin but also including less than 10 Humpback whales due to religious reasons. Catches of other whale species are not unheard of but occur infrequently. Please help us honour the traditions of our minorities.


Best regards,

Olvar Lenungar,
Principal Secretary,
Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
Negolonjo,
The Free Land of Smagganuk

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The big ol' pond
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Keptin' Blacktoe stared out over the vast ocean "Yarrrr," he randomly gurgled. "There she goes." He had spotted a whale. Actually, a large part of 'vast ocean' scenery that ought to be visible from the bridge was obscured by the huge processing complex built on top of his newest ship in front of the command centre. Blacktoe was really just looking at the readout on his computer that had greatly helped to make the ol' hunt more efficient. The 'Terminator III' was an on-site Whale Processing Factory which was designed to "swipe the seas clean". Incidently, this was also the motto on the side of the gigantic vessel.

The ship had left from Rotterdam in the DDR three days earlier, and most of the senior crew were Knootians. (The grunts hired to clean the belly of the whale and cut the gut into pieces where of more ambigious nationality, but who cared really as long as they did their job.)

Small weapons to fend off pirates and nature loonies were mounted on port and starboard, side by side with the giant hooks used to shoot at the whales. The flag of the Grand Mercenaries of The BlackWolf Order was proudly waving in the breeze at the back of the ship. (Near the canal where the excess blood was dumped.)The ship was also legally registered with the Ordera Commercial Marina of the BlackWolf Order. (a non-UN nation not subject to UN resolutions.)

"Yarrr... its a fine day and no UN pussy whaler in sight", Blacktoe commented as his crew prepared to shoot at one of the unsuspecting whales that was passing by on a parralell course.

*Press Release from The Order*

The Order does license whaling ships, and will not cease to do so. It is our view that the UN should not dictate to the world how it should operate, and we will not submit to laws we had no say in the creation of, and have imposed upon us. We furthermore state that we WILL defend those who are under our registry from agression, and will not tolerate attacks upon them in any sense.

(apolgies for the shortness/non-good-articulation of it..I'm running out of time to post, cause the shop's closing. Yay, TDY to a base without room 'net access)

The Most Serene Republic of Jovianica stays so serene by ensuring that its submarine crews get plenty of target practice. Nothing says peace of mind like a gigantic water-spout and a reverberating boom....

Accordingly, the Jovianic Republic encourages all commercial whaling vessels to stray into that stretch of water near the western edge of their charts marked "Here be Dragons."

The dragon is, of course, Jovianica's national animal.

((
OOC:
So basically, if I enter your national waters with my uberexpensive thingy you'll sink it? *fails to be intimidated*

This a) will never happen and b) would be a fairly stupid thing to do from a military point of view. But I take it that this is all in good fun, so I will stay away from the dragons and other peoples lawns. ;) The whales can technically hide there too, but I bet that they are too stupid to realise that. ))

That is to say, your uber-expensive single-purpose thingy....

Pause as the Ambassador is handed a telegram, which causes him to stammer and sputter a moment.

Well, I suppose we can give you a warning or two first.... :rolleyes:

I can live with warnings from very small nations. There there. Want economic development for your cute Information Technology, Furniture Restoration, and Trout Farming industries? Lets be friends and be nice.

*Hands the Jovianican rep a few toy factories and hotels*

There ya go... civilisation. You are now developing. When you get bigger we'll get you toy guns too. ;)

It is the belief of the goverment of the Commonwealth of Trimley that the notion of aboriginal whaling and scientific whaling are insufficently covered by current legislation. Which is why Trimley voted against the motion.

The Commonwealth would like to propose a new resolution to the effect of,

1) The establishment of a UN Whaling Commision (UNWC).

a) To be headed by a Chair, most lilkly an expert in marine life.
b) To consists of representatives of whaling nations, and those nations which have whales in their waters, and other intrested parties (NGOs).
c) To meet quarterly to disscuss whale populations, and decide upon a number which may be hunted. As a principal the UNWC will accept as fact the lowest number for a given whale population.
d) To meet at the descretion of the chair, to address specific issues or situations. Such meetings may suspend or adjust quotas with imediate effect, or issue imediate and full 'cease and desist' orders, ether for a specific area or species.

2) Pettions for whaling permints (aborginal/cultural).

a) States may present written submission and send emissaries to the UNWC to apply for permints to hunt whales. If succesful a quota will be given for that quarter.
b) A state or NGO may present written submission on whale populations should it wish to 'prove' and increase or decrease of whale hunting quotas to be judged by the UNWC.

3) Scientific Whaling.

a) Any nation wishing to hunt whales for scientific reason will be required to present a written submission to the UNWC. The UNWC will decide upon the validity and issue a permint if it accepts the arguments.
b) No whale caught for scientific reasons shall be permitted to enter the food chain, or be used for commercial reasons. Whilst wasteful this caveat is necessary to prevent nations using scientific whalign as a front for commercial whaling.

4) Quotas (aborginal/scientific).
a) Any quota issued by the UNWC shall be considered binding, unless a cease and desist order, or an adjustment has been issued by the UNWC.
b) Quotas shall not be 'carried over' from one quarter to the next without the specific permission of the UNWC.

5) Whale species.

a) The UNWC may decide that a given species is so endangered as to make any form of hunting a serious threat to that species. In such cases the UNWC may impose an indefinate ban on the hunting of such a species, without exception.
b) Hunt free zones to be establised in breeding grounds to minimise the risk of dependent infants loosing a parent. Or to safeguard a given species.

6) Enforcment.

a) All UN nations are required to assist with the policing of quotas. As such any military/police vessel may in its own or international waters board a whaling vessel to check permits.
b) That any nation found to be in violation of its quota or to not have a permit shall forfeit future quotas for a period of time. Such a 'ban' will be at the descretion of the UNWC.
c) At the request of the UNWC member nations shall without unnecessary delay place economic sanctions against a nation for violation of UNWC mandates.
d) Any member nations who's forces board a whaling vessel found to be in violation of UNWC mandates shall without delay make a written report to the chair of the UNWC.

7)Enviromental Protection.

a) The UNWC shall be permitted to impose bans on the hunting/fishing of a species that whales rely on for food in international waters should it deem that there are not sufficent numbers to sustain the whale population.
b) The UNWC shall make advisory notes to nations within whoms waters whales live should it feel that fish or other animals upon which whales depend are below acceptable levels. Whilst such advisories are not mandatory or enforcable the UNWC expects the full cooperation of all member nations. Especialy those allplying for permits.

The Commonwealth feels that such a draft outlines allows for a cointinueation of whaling whilst safeguarding the whale population. The Commonwealth recognises that many species of whales are in need of the protection offerec by the previous resolution. The Commonwealth also understands that some nations are reliant on whales for food or other resources, or that whaling is a long established traditon. However the Commonwealth feels that the argument of 'this was my fathers job, and his father before him...' holds no weight if hunting means that future generations will not be able to witness the majesty of these animals.

Your comments please,

Secretary Katan
The Office of Forighn Affairs, The Commonwealth of Trimley.

It is the belief of the goverment of the Commonwealth of Trimley that the notion of aboriginal whaling and scientific whaling are insufficently covered by current legislation. Which is why Trimley voted against the motion.

The Commonwealth would like to propose a new resolution to the effect of,
Your comments please,


WOW!

It is a bit long, but I'm very impressed! There is a lot more thought put into this than most responses pro and con after the passage of a resolution, and for that your nation has my nation's respect.

You'll want to run your proposal through a spell checker as I caught one very minor typo, which should I believe read:

6) Enforcement

I'll print out a copy of your draft and review it tonight on my bus ride home. (That means you are beating out the latest Dune novel.)

Actually had you posted this before the vote ended, you may have been able to buy many more abstentions or no votes. In any event, this is the type of thing that I'd like to also run by the moderators to make sure we aren't violating the "amendment" / "repeal" spectre. But on a first glance this looks great and I'd say is certainly within the spirit of the resolution (just my opinion).

10kMichael
UN Ambassador
Confederated City States of Mikitivity

I can live with warnings from very small nations. There there. Want economic development for your cute Information Technology, Furniture Restoration, and Trout Farming industries? Lets be friends and be nice.We're already doing quite well, thank you. Especially since our IT specialists hacked into the Knootian Federal Res--

Ahem.

But thanks for the offer. :cool:

Federal reserves... hmmm... odd. I did not even know we had them?

Oh, well, maybe your hackers have l33tly deleted every reference to it ever having existed. Yeah... that must be it.

Please feel free to e-mail any complaints to dept1337@jovianica.gov ;)

OK, again, I'm happy to see a nation that has already responded in a positive way.

Here is my suggested edits for the first Article:


1) The establishment of a UN Whaling Commission (UNWC).

a) To be headed by a Chair, most likely an expert in marine life.
b) To consist of representatives of whaling nations, and nations which have whales in their waters, and other interested parties (NGOs).
c) To meet quarterly to discuss whale populations, and decide upon a number which may be hunted.
d) To meet at the discretion of the chair, to address specific issues or situations. Such meetings may suspend or adjust quotas with immediate effect, or issue immediate and full 'cease and desist' orders, ether for a specific area or species.


The most important thing I deleted (just my suggestion) was the part that said that the least number of whales should be considered a fact. Since the commission will vote upon these issues and have experts in marine life, I'm assuming they will be well informed as to what "realistic" numbers for NationStates are.

The people of East Whittier wish to be exempted from this whaling ban cause our people find whale meat and fat to make good tasting snacks.
And we have much people to feed.

The Nomadic Peoples of Gaupe greet you all!

We will follow this rule:
"Indigenous peoples who engage in 'aboriginal whaling' using traditional non-industrial methods and taking only a small number of whales each year, to be exempt from the ban. A register of such peoples to be set up by the UN."

Note that in line with the rule, we do not apply for an exemption,nor to we register. However we inform UN that we will continue our whaling acitivities.

Inspired by the US execution methods, we will also experiment with humane killing methods, such as electrical chairs for whales.

In addition - our government has vegetarianism as a long term goal, and we will encourage that thru taxation on all industrial meat production.

Also, meat-eaters who oppose whaling in public will be fined, and forced to eat vegetables for a month.

Vegetarians who oppose whaling will get free carrots, pommes frites and grilled aubergine.

By order

Lynx - Chieftain of the nomadic Gaupe

OK, again, I'm happy to see a nation that has already responded in a positive way.

Here is my suggested edits for the first Article:

The most important thing I deleted (just my suggestion) was the part that said that the least number of whales should be considered a fact. Since the commission will vote upon these issues and have experts in marine life, I'm assuming they will be well informed as to what "realistic" numbers for NationStates are.

We believe that due to the nomadic nature of whales it may be hard to give a good estimate. We also believe that some whaling nations will inevitable put pressure on experts to give higher figures to increase quotas. As such we feel that there will be dissagreement on the actual numbers of whales. For example I believe that some experts put [Real World] the number of Mink whale at 1million, others 2million. Quite a difference.

We believe that due to the nomadic nature of whales it may be hard to give a good estimate. We also believe that some whaling nations will inevitable put pressure on experts to give higher figures to increase quotas. As such we feel that there will be dissagreement on the actual numbers of whales. For example I believe that some experts put [Real World] the number of Mink whale at 1million, others 2million. Quite a difference.

First, my government completely agrees with you. There are plenty of dishonest governments.

But just as a pro whaling nation might claim that there are trillions of whales (some have), an anti-whaling nation might want to claim that figure is lower.

Ultimately I think the UNWC should put the science to a vote on a case-by-case basis.

Again, you'll have my nation's support in either case. :)

On the structure of the resolution, I was thinking about this some more, it could be written more along the following lines:


United Nations Whaling Commission (UNWC)

Article 1: Membership & Composition

§ To be headed by a Chair, most likely an expert in marine life.
§ To consist of representatives of whaling nations, and nations which have whales in their waters, and other interested parties (NGOs).

Article 2: Purpose

§ To meet quarterly to discuss whale populations, and decide upon a number which may be hunted.
§ To meet at the discretion of the chair, to address specific issues or situations. Such meetings may suspend or adjust quotas with immediate effect, or issue immediate and full 'cease and desist' orders, ether for a specific area or species.

Article 3: Petitions for Aboriginal and Cultural Whaling Permits

§ Any nation may present a written submission to the UNWC to apply for permits to hunt whales.
§ The UNWC will review the petition for aboriginal / cultural hunting rights and establish a quarterly quota based on cultural needs and the sensitivity of the species in question.
§ A permit applicant my appeal to the UNWC to amend its quarterly quota.
§ Aboriginal / Cultural permits are not transferable to other nations / vessels.


etc.

OOC: This is just a suggestion of where we can go with this. :) It is a different style of proposal, but I think it would be fun to construct and continue to roleplay this. Notice how many anti-UN nations are actually having fun talking about their whale clones or 2000% increase in their quotas. While I find this numbers incredibly ... "fantasy" based, they must be having fun.

10kMichael

((Actually, considering how many NS nations there are and further considering that thousands of nations just stopped hunting whales, a 2000% increase for one nation is really not that illogical. :p ))

((Actually, considering how many NS nations there are and further considering that thousands of nations just stopped hunting whales, a 2000% increase for one nation is really not that illogical. :p ))

You are right; it could be worse. He could have quoted a 200-fold (20,000%) increase or a 2,000-fold (200,000%) increase instead!!! Fortunately he was talking about a quota, and not reporting kills.


1)
You are assuming that most nations *were* commerically hunting whales. Why is that? I don't think we can make that assumption.

2)
You are assuming that nations that were practicing commerical whaling, actually stopped. Based on what I've seen here: nations have resorted to reflagging their vessels and trying to intimidate younger players by telling them not to start a war "or else", if I were a whale, I would not be thinking that my pollution filled bubbler is safe yet!

3)
You are assuming that other nations aren't going to do the exact same thing as the Hack and increase their quotas. Again, we've seen the opposite being roleplayed in the UN (why this stuff isn't in International Incidents is beyond me -- well actually it isn't ... no troll wants his posts to go unnoticed!)

These may or may not be valid assumptions. I'd be interested to hear why you think your assumptions are valid. Perhaps you have some "trends" to defend your position. ;)


A twenty fold increase in even a "regulatory quota" is a pretty big deal for a nation that hinted that it already has a commerical whaling industry (these are made up numbers ... feel free to make up your own):

Event | Whale Quota | % Change
CASE 1 -- Tribal Only
Before | 1,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 39900%
CASE 2a -- Small Commerical
Before | 10,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 3900%
CASE 2b -- Small Commerical
Before | 20,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 1900%
CASE 3 -- Medium Commerical
Before | 40,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 900%
CASE 4a -- Large Commerical
Before | 100,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 300%
CASE 4b -- Large Commerical
Before | 200,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 100%

[NOTE: If somebody would help me with the formatting codes, I could clean up this table and future ones.]

[NOTE: If somebody would help me with the formatting codes, I could clean up this table and future ones.]Event | Whale Quota | % Change
--------------------------------
CASE 1 -- Tribal Only
Before | 1,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 39900%
--------------------------------
CASE 2a -- Small Commerical
Before | 10,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 3900%
--------------------------------
CASE 2b -- Small Commerical
Before | 20,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 1900%
--------------------------------
CASE 3 -- Medium Commerical
Before | 40,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 900%
--------------------------------
CASE 4a -- Large Commerical
Before | 100,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 300%
--------------------------------
CASE 4b -- Large Commerical
Before | 200,000 | -
After | 400,000 | 100%
using Notepad (courier text) to set the spacing, and the [ code] [ /code] commands, btw ...

using Notepad (courier text) to set the spacing, and the [ code] [ /code] commands, btw ...

Danke!

Now I wonder if I should edit it to make it look nice. ;)

Indeed. Kalaallit Nunaat wishes to be placed on the register of indigenous whaling nations exempt from the ban.

Some definitons seem in order:

An indigenous people is one that has lived in its homeland since time immemorial. Recent immigrants and nations of settlement are not indigenous.

An indigenous nation is one that attempts to live in keeping with its traditional way of life, with such adjustment to modern technology as enhance that way of life. An indigenous nation does not practice colonial rule over others nor attempt to enforce tis way of life on other nations.

Indigenous whaling is relatively small-scale, sustainable, and based on traditonal conservation practices. Indigenous peoples shall not start whaling merely to take advantage of the register. They shall be nations that have practiced whaling since time immemorial. Indigenous whaling has a cultural and spiritual purpose. Economic purposes are merely a byproduct. Profit is not the purpose.

It follows that European nations carrying out commercial whaling since the 16th century do not qualify to be placed on the register.

Thank you for your time.

Call me Susan Aglukark
President of the non-member but compliant Inuit Free State of Kalaallit Nunaat

Indeed. Kalaallit Nunaat wishes to be placed on the register of indigenous whaling nations exempt from the ban.

Indigenous whaling is relatively small-scale, sustainable, and based on traditonal conservation practices.

It follows that European nations carrying out commercial whaling since the 16th century do not qualify to be placed on the register.


My nation completely agrees with the Kalaallit Nunaat's points, and in particular wishes to highly the above points.

Of course, what are you going to do regarding nations who just register their ships under a different flag, of a nation that refuses to submit to the UN?

Of course, what are you going to do regarding nations who just register their ships under a different flag, of a nation that refuses to submit to the UN?
"Gosh, Wally, no one would do such a thing, would they?"

"Of course not, Beav. That'd be against the law, wouldn't it."

Of course, what are you going to do regarding nations who just register their ships under a different flag, of a nation that refuses to submit to the UN?

Two things:

- Other nations can boycot them -- and penalties / disincentives sometimes are effective, other times are not,

- The nations allowing other nations to run their flags in order to hunt whales aren't going to do this for free ... so if there really is a "market" for doing this, the rogue nations will probably make this idea expensive enough that former UN whaling nations are still going to be less productive.

*Points Mikitivity to his very small RP above*

I do not think so. The BlackWolf Order does not really ask for charges (very minor ones excluded perhaps) but that is no problem for us. It is perfectly legal, after all, and such flag fees would have to be paid to Knootian officials otherwise. :)

If the Order is becoming too demanding and expensive the DDR whalers can simply switch to another provider who will do it for less. (ie. virtually nothing). Compared to huge whaling ships and personell costs it is really insignificant in terms of productivity loss, especially if some other UN governments do not allow changing flags and increase our share. :)

*Points Mikitivity to his very small RP above*

I do not think so. The BlackWolf Order does not really ask for charges (very minor ones excluded perhaps) but that is no problem for us. It is perfectly legal, after all, and such flag fees would have to be paid to Knootian officials otherwise. :)

If the Order is becoming too demanding and expensive the DDR whalers can simply switch to another provider who will do it for less. (ie. virtually nothing). Compared to huge whaling ships and personell costs it is really insignificant in terms of productivity loss, especially if some other UN governments do not allow changing flags and increase our share. :)

Do you even realize you are advocating the existence of a "free lunch"?

Frankly I think your nation is deluding itself if it feels that nations will simply allow you to use their flags without expecting something of value in return.

Economics and trade in general exist when two parties have something the other values. It could be a present value exchanged for a future service or a present value exchanged for present service. But without both parties benefiting transactions simply do not occur.

Talk to the delegate from Frisbeeteria, as I think your nation's economists will be more likely to be open to their explaination of the basic role of economics in international relations. (This isn't to suggest that my nation's bankers aren't equally as well versed as the Frisbeeterian corporations, but frankly they don't see any present or future political or economic benefit in doing so. Perhaps the Frisbeeterians will see benefit where my nation does not.)

OOC: And to think the "Great Socialist Ring Leader" is advocating capitalism and economics to one of the self acknowledged capitalist nations. ::sigh::

No free lunch. (Though The BlackWolf order could simply refuse to care and charge nothing. It would be consistent with their attitude of being piraty. :P)

IRL, places like The Marshall Islands (http://www.register-iri.com/content/press/minews-9.cfm) and Malta even advertise registering ships under their flag and they give discounts and do it for free and such. I think it would not be unreasonable for good little neoliberal nations such as the DDR to do likewise. In fact, the DDR does it because I say it does. (And really, just one nation doing it is sufficient for ALL whalers in NS because everyone could simply go and register with them. This would certainly spark a bit of competition from governments who want part of the cash that is to be made. A Market for taxes, like with the corporate tax moves in the EU block.) The BlackWolf Order even offers their vessels protection as part of registering so what more do you want?

Sure, they might get some minor fees (he did not really speak of that on IRC but I suppose it is reasonable considering their offer of protection) but the whaling industry would also have to pay those fees when they would register in the DDR so when you look at the alternative costs they really are not losing any money. In fact, with the Order making this offer after the whaling business it may actually be cheaper. (And if it is hidiously expensive the whalers simply register with another non-UN nation. The Hack was doing it, and I am sure that a quick investigation would reveal more nations. Go and shop for lower taxes, I´d say. Since processing whale-related products is not banned by the resolution, this can still take place in the DDR.

Talk to the delegate from Frisbeeteria, as I think your nation's economists will be more likely to be open to their explaination of the basic role of economics in international relations.
Frisbeeterian Parity Partners, LLC have in fact participated in the financing and reflagging of Single Hull Tankers for non-UN nations. While we don't endorse the use of SHTs in our territorial waters, nor do we permit such ships to anchor at our ports, we'd be foolish to turn down the commissions for providing such a basic commodity service. Frisbeeteria doesn't flag those tankers, as that would clearly be in violation of the UN Resolution Ban Single-Hulled Tankers. Is it relevant that some of those flagged nations are heavily in our debt? Perhaps you would see it that way, perhaps not.

Frisbeeteria didn't become a major financial center by turning away customers. I'm sure we could help nations who wished to find legal ways to whale.

*ponders putting "reflagging services" as a search option on the Virtual Market. :) *

No free lunch. (Though The BlackWolf order could simply refuse to care and charge nothing. It would be consistent with their attitude of being piraty. :P)

IRL, places like The Marshall Islands (http://www.register-iri.com/content/press/minews-9.cfm) and Malta even advertise registering ships under their flag and they give discounts and do it for free and such.

Here is the issue though ... for this "imaginary" places (BTW, I think it is nice that you've started using real-world links to prove your point ... I can see you finally see the value in such) do to this, there has to be some benefit to this tiny island nations.

And that is my point, for a society to claim that they'll be able to acquire their whale meat with no economic or political cost by a simple magical changing of the ship's registery is completely ignorant of the very real life NationStates political and economic costs associated with trading favours.

Here is the issue though ... for this "imaginary" places (BTW, I think it is nice that you've started using real-world links to prove your point ... I can see you finally see the value in such) do to this, there has to be some benefit to this tiny island nations.

And that is my point, for a society to claim that they'll be able to acquire their whale meat with no economic or political cost by a simple magical changing of the ship's registery is completely ignorant of the very real life NationStates political and economic costs associated with trading favours.
OOC:
Uhhh... I used the RW link to explain the practice I am using myself along with (so far) the BlackWolf Order, FrisBeetaria and Hack. Sentient Peoples also made me an offer to the effect of reflagging my whalers but he had more environmental regs and such so I preferred the mercs. I did not post that link to prove that there is a trend.

There are good reasons for these nations to do it. Getting ships to flag under your nation gets you some fees and such. Can be a nice earner. However, this does not make such fees very expensive nor is there any reason to assume that these fees would be more expensive then in UN nations. Frankly, these non-UN nations would be quite silly if they would ask so much fees that the ships potentially registering under their flag would actually have to pay so much to make whaling uneconomical.

But excuse me, as you are obviously an expert of NationStates interdimensional economics (minoring in shipping fees?) and have done extensive research into the matter I apologise for my ignorance about the deal I struck myself with the BlackWolf Order.

But excuse me, as you are obviously an expert of NationStates interdimensional economics (minoring in shipping fees?) and have done extensive research into the matter I apologise for my ignorance about the deal I struck myself with the BlackWolf Order.
BlackWolf? Have you looked at their liability shield? Porous as a sponge!

Pay a visit to FPP Corporate HQ in our Jurisprudence Megaplex and we'll be happy to show you what they left out of the package.

Amateurs.

OOC:
Uhhh... I used the RW link to explain the practice I am using myself along with (so far) the BlackWolf Order, FrisBeetaria and Hack. Sentient Peoples also made me an offer to the effect of reflagging my whalers but he had more environmental regs and such so I preferred the mercs. I did not post that link to prove that there is a trend.


OOC: Like it or not, that *is* displaying the "realism" of a trend and justifying a policy. Call it what you like, but turning to the real world when it suits your argument is the same type of thing I did not long ago only to get you whining, "Dude, this is like a game. Use your imagination." I just find it incredibly entertaining how your position can change when it suits your own needs. ;)

Of course I have a word for people who are quick to employ things when it suits them and denounce them at other times ... and naturally my opinion of these players and desire to acknowledge them (via roelplaying) corresponds with that behavior. Have fun!

BlackWolf? Have you looked at their liability shield? Porous as a sponge!

Pay a visit to FPP Corporate HQ in our Jurisprudence Megaplex and we'll be happy to show you what they left out of the package.

Amateurs.

Sure, we will send a representative for negotiations provided your offer is good enough. Does Frisbeeteria offer favourable fees comparable to the BlackWolf Order? And can we expect the same amount of military protection for our whalers? Security is an issue with these left-wing loonies trying to destroy our economic activity
~Evil Capitalist Whalekilling Incorporated
Phone: 0900 X-TERMINATE

OOC:
Mik, whatever. I explained the difference between using a RW example and comparing it to your deal, and implying NS is entirely like that. You simply refuse to listen. I made a deal with someone and, really, how you can imply that it is not possible for two consenting parties to agree on something is beyond me.

Sure, we will send a representative for negotiations provided your offer is good enough. Does Frisbeeteria offer favourable fees comparable to the BlackWolf Order? And can we expect the same amount of military protection for our whalers? Security is an issue with these left-wing loonies trying to destroy our economic activity
~Evil Capitalist Whalekilling Incorporated
Phone: 0900 X-TERMINATE.
Our battlefield is the courtroom and the patent office. Military? Heh. That's what mercs are for.

Seriously, if you want a total financial package with excellent legal protection, pay us a visit. If you're looking for escort vessels and such, maybe you're better off with the Blackwolf Order. Just remember this offer when you rip open a hull or two and try to collect on your insurance ... we might just be representing the other side.

OOC:
Mik, whatever. I explained the difference between using a RW example and comparing it to your deal, and implying NS is entirely like that. You simply refuse to listen. I made a deal with someone and, really, how you can imply that it is not possible for two consenting parties to agree on something is beyond me.

OOC: I think it is time for you to review my posts.

I never said you can't make a deal. I suggested time and time again, that despite making the deals, that there is a "cost" involved in the transaction and this cost in my opinion will save some whales (I'm of course discounting players claiming to simply improve their technology and ability to hunt whales), which at first you very much sounded like you thought you were getting a free lunch. (Actually I still think you've convinced yourself you've found a nearly free lunch, but ask yourself this ... why hasn't Norway and Japan simply reflagged their whale hunting ships? You say it is easy. Is this really happening on a large scale? And if so, what has been the international response.) <--- I say this, because I'd like to challenge the sour grapes people into thinking a few more steps. I'd like them to experience some of the troubles that real world nations experience. And while you've repeatedly accused me of spoiling your game experience, I've noticed that multiple players not only have made me to be the BOGGIEMAN of NationStates, but do actually take an interest in reading my posts. I'm *hoping* that they are reading them and thinking (even if they are burning black-white-blue flags).



Frankly I'm surprised that somebody just hasn't said, "None of my nation's ships whale. Though strangely enough a bunch of pirate ships off my nation's coast seem to." Though interestingly enough an anti-whaling nation has already seen this as an issue, and is working to sneak a stop gap in place. ;)

As an aside, I wonder how many players really seriously considered their nations "whaling" nations before this resolution hit the UN. On a hunch, I'd guess very few. With that in mind, I actually think the author of this resolution did a sneaky thing. He / she may have managed to change the NS in a much more significant way than he / she is probably being given credit.

To be completely honest, that is why I like the UN aspect of this game. By getting a resolution to the floor, you can actually get players to shape an aspect of their nations about your topic of choice. They will usually be for or against your goal, but none-the-less you do force the topic at hand.

I seriously doubt many players last month thought that much about needle sharing. I certainly learned a lot more about IDUs and HIV last month. I also certainly learned a hell of a lot more about marine mammals in the past few weeks. Though I've not been posting on the current resolution, I have been reading about biomass and geothermal energy this week. :)

While there are infinite dimensions to the game, the educational issues I think are cool.

Our battlefield is the courtroom and the patent office. Military? Heh. That's what mercs are for.


You rang? Thats right, The Order IS a bunch of Mercs. And the fees are QUITE reasonable, in our opinion, considering we're also offering special ship services to the Whalers as well as protections. On top of that, our economy gets a nice little boost for trade thanks to the whole deal, which we're more than happy to take. As for the cost of sending a few ships out to escort? We dont even really need to do that-Thanks to our progression in SeARMOR technology (Once again, a special thanks to Lavenrunz for aiding us in the original design for the first, construction-use-versions), we can just send a group of troopers to escort and guard the whaler. No extra costs, since the troopers would get paid for sitting on the beach or on the ship (Save for the extra 'Hazardous Duty' pay), and then maintence on the SeARMOR is simple enough! Best part is, whaler permitting, they can even bunk aboard ship when they're not on duty, which helps sustain the suit endurance! An excellent deal, if I might say so.
And if we have to sink a ship or two to ensure the safety of our customers...well, thats what we train for.
I'd like to see the Marshall Islands or Malta do THAT!

(By the way Knootoss, I've not been on IRC lately due to Esper STILL not being able to get that accidental (on their part) A-Kill off me.)

I <3 My EMP Generator

(Bumper sticker on the stern of the Merritt ap Fiona, Caine-class nuclear submarine, JRN-017)

So do lots of other people. Doesnt mean they always do the trick. (Established Tech Capability, January 03) But now we're hijacking the topic : P

what a shame. It seemed like a good idea to explore the concept of aboriginal whaling some more. I guess it was harpooned by people who like to talk about what fun it is to kill whales. thanks for trying, Mikivitty.