NationStates Jolt Archive

Storage of nuclear waste has become a major problem in the world (OOC: Real-world example: United States). Therefore, I have made a proposal to create a nation (I will create it) for the purpose of nuclear waste storage. Please approve it as the storage of nuclear waste is a very important subject.

Storage of nuclear waste has become a major problem in the world (OOC: Real-world example: United States). Therefore, I have made a proposal to create a nation (I will create it) for the purpose of nuclear waste storage. Please approve it as the storage of nuclear waste is a very important subject.

Please ,where have you been all of my LIFE? You can deposit all the nuclear waste right here on the sunny beaches of La puttana con Il Cane. Provided you ship it here at your expense, we'll take care of the rest and this goes for any other country that has a little problem.

Storage of nuclear waste has become a major problem in the world (OOC: Real-world example: United States). Therefore, I have made a proposal to create a nation (I will create it) for the purpose of nuclear waste storage. Please approve it as the storage of nuclear waste is a very important subject.
And what will happen to those poor people living in a country created to be used as a nuclear waste dump? Sure, you'll only have 5 million at first, but nuclear waste lasts for a very great deal of time. Given that you get approx 1 million people a day, you'll end up with billions of people living in a radioactive zone.

Didn't know that you get 1 million people a day. That means I have to wait about 500 days before I can get my own title? Outrageous! Why can't you make your own initially?

Didn't know that you get 1 million people a day. That means I have to wait about 500 days before I can get my own title? Outrageous! Why can't you make your own initially?

Nah, it's rather less than that, if I recall correctly. I think you'll hit 500mil within about 3-4 months.

The people living there will be outfitted with treatments daily to prevent the effects of nuclear radiation. However, we can obviously not administer this protection to animals, so the country will be formed in an arid, lifeless desert, and all oxygen-providing plants will be sprayed. Cooling systems, too will be provided.

What about the countries neighboring yours?
Even though you are offering storage on your lands, it does not preclude the idea that some of that waste could manage to leak into other countries. It can also affect weather patterns over large areas that will move towards other nations.

Then there is the combustability and volatility of storing all manners of nuclear waste in one area.

Your proposal offers nothing more than problems and can not be taken seriously until you outline all of the issues stemming from your solution in the terms of the proposal.

While I appreciate nations wanting to solve the problem of nuclear waste, how is storing it in the Earth in another nation - where the nuclear waste will eventually eat away and the soil and pollute the rest of the world - help the world in the long run?

Oh wait here is a better idea for a real life solution to the nuclear waste problem. Why don't we build a space elevator, at the current estimated cost of 6-8 billion dollars and then we can safely send the waste to a relay station up in space where it can be cheeply rocketed into the sun. The cost of the space elevator would make shipping things in to space extreamly cheap and it could also be used for regular cargo besides the waste.

As IF the pollution of our planet wasnt bad enough...
Now someone wants to pollute space with our waste.

The main problem I have with the dumping of nuclear waste in one country is the security issue. Imagine a security force trying to protect such a large area, a near impossible task. Terrorists could have all the depleted Uranium they want for dirty bombs.

As for the space elevator idea: The space elevator its self is a good idea, Arthur C. Clarke who I believe first proposed this idea in his books estimated that with a space elevator the cost of travelling into space become as little as £100 if not even less on no-frill flights that were designed to be more energy efficient etc. The great is that this is perfectly possible! Carbon 60 that has been produced, huge diamonds made in space, or new special carbon-based fibres will make suitable material for the long “rope” needed to stretch out into the space. The problem with this though is once more terrorism. I hate to think what might happen is somehow the space elevators “thread” was broken. The affects could be devastating to surrounding areas.

Also I’m no expert in this subject but how safe is firing large quantities of nuclear waste into the sun, which produces its power by nuclear fusion?

Fly all of the waste to the moon and be done with it. you know mabye after it gets to the moon you can fire it even further from there. That way it won't bother anybody.Then you have to figure out how it will get there,fly it there,launch it there, it won't matter as long as it joes goes into space. Now there is the subject of,if we tried to fly it there and the rocket explodes for some reason or the other, it would be a disaster!!!

I'll put this proposal in tomorrow (space thing). Great idea(s), all!

Don't fly it to the Moon.

Fly it directly at the sun. That'll obliterate alpha particles.

As IF the pollution of our planet wasnt bad enough...
Now someone wants to pollute space with our waste.

Radioactive waste is not poluution in space. In fact, space is one big radioactive mass. The sun is radioactive. The earth itself is even radioactive.

But I would like to trigger another discussion:

What would happen if we dumped our radioactive waste into a star?

BUH-HUMP. I'm just waiting to be regional delegate again until I can create the prop'. Keep discussing, I'll factor it all in.

A star is too distant... we cannot to ensure continual acceleration towards a distant star. The closest is the sun, which we can ensure continual acceleration, and the sun will pretty much obliterate everything we send at it without a question.

We can even send some on Venus since they have an acidic atmosphere.

Burn away! We got 9 planets to dump on!

As IF the pollution of our planet wasnt bad enough...
Now someone wants to pollute space with our waste.

It would only be in space for a short period of time before it is rocketed to the sun. Which is safer, cleaner, and more secure than keeping it here on earth. And kudos to the other person who already mentioned that spaces is full of radioactivity and the nuclear waste (for the short time it is floating in its container) would not affect anything.

Don't fly it to the Moon.

Fly it directly at the sun. That'll obliterate alpha particles.

Good idea but don't fly it from earth a lauchpad or mid flight accident could kill billions with all the radioactivity released into the atmosphere. Instead do as I sugested and us a space elevator which is cheeper and safer.

Okay, so here's the basic ideals to be outlined in the proposal:

(1) All countries shall be mandated to ship their nuclear waste to a single country (which I will create).

(2) This country's economic spending shall be mostly based on creating platforms with the capability of launching said waste to outer space.

(3) The waste shall be launched directly into the sun, so as to completely and cleanly obliterate said waste.

(4) To transport this waste, secure (checked an rechecked nearly incessantly) vehicles shall be encased in large, airtight containers, which will have thrusters and then launched. The vehicles shall dump this case in-transit slightly past Mercury (if the case hasn't melted yet), and jettison its waste so it will be pulled in by the Sun's gravity. Then, the vehiclee shall use its own thrusters to make the return trip home.

(5) Once back on Earth, it will be cleaned and serviced by protected and certified workers.

(6) The vehicles shall be unmanned and controlled remotely so as to prevent "Space Odyssey"- and "Apollo 13"-like disasters.

(7) If the waste and/or case fail(s) to jettison, then the vehicle shall be abandoned and steered into the Sun, taking its waste with it.

So...what do you think?

Sounds to me like these vehicals are going to cost us more than the waste problem.

Good idea but don't fly it from earth a lauchpad or mid flight accident could kill billions with all the radioactivity released into the atmosphere. Instead do as I sugested and us a space elevator which is cheeper and safer.

Good observation, however...

A space elevator would make it feasible, but current technology allows only a 12 ton load to be carried up.

America alone produces much more then 12 tons of waste per day.

We'd need like 1000+ space elevators just to keep up and with the mentality that we'll just dump it into the Sun and the pointlessness of landfills and waste disposal restrictions, even more will be needed since more waste will be expected to be generated.

Instead of an elevator... we would need a space 'pulley' (the cabel doesn't pull since each carrier is self-propelled) in which multiple carriers can ride the cable in a circular fashion like 0

But this creates a logistical nightmare as every country in the world uses this pulley system which would be in the middle of the ocean, you would have hundreds of miles of cargo ships carrying standardized containers to be unloaded to the carriers. With all of that waste being mobile in such a focused location, the potential for accident becomes MUCH higher and potentially more devestating then an accidental shuttle explosion in transit.

People flip out when an oil tanker spills. Imagine 100,000,000 gallons of potassium cyanide ending up in our oceans.

Ghetalion is right transporting the whole of the world’s nuclear waste to one place presents a huge logistical, financial and security nightmare.

The space idea without an efficient space elevator would see costs skyrocket and also what happens if one of those spacecraft malfunctions in the Earth’s atmosphere? Lets remember an explosion high up in the atmosphere would scatter the waste miles. This space idea presents too many new and even more potentially disastrous problems than those we already have in the current method of disposing nuclear waste.

The economic aspect will be carried out by the created country and allied countries. Remember that the equipment will be tested, re-tested, checked, and re-checked. Also, remember, it will be encased by a case that has mostly no functions to malfunction except for thrust and steer, just in case the vehichle inside explodes, the case outside will contain this explosion.

There is no physical container in the history of man capable of containing the explosion of ignited hundreds of thousands of gallons of rocket fuel.

Good point. Anyone have suggestions?

What about a process where separating atoms or molecules and changing the waste into an unharmful product and dumping it in the ocean. Or...storing it in a, like plastic chamber miles below the surface...the location of which is secret.

Why not recreate a sun like environment here on earth? It may be impossible, or at the very least improbable, but if possible, it could be easier then having to bother with the logistical nightmare of shipping thousands of millions of tons of waste per day to a sun.

I dont see the problem. All we need is a large area. Say a few thousand square miles. With no real amounts of water. (Little or no water table).

Set up a UN security force to protect the area. And you can dump as much waste as you want on it.

The area itself will be unlivable.... So don't live there. If there is no water table then the waste will not spread. And before talking about airborn radiation... even simple storage vaults would stop that.

As for the ideas on sending it into space. At some point we (Earth) will be able to use the waste of today to make power and products tomorow. So dont fire it into the sun.
If your going to send it into space. Dump it into a crater on the moon.

I dont see the problem. All we need is a large area. Say a few thousand square miles. With no real amounts of water. (Little or no water table).

Set up a UN security force to protect the area. And you can dump as much waste as you want on it.

The area itself will be unlivable.... So don't live there. If there is no water table then the waste will not spread. And before talking about airborn radiation... even simple storage vaults would stop that.

As for the ideas on sending it into space. At some point we (Earth) will be able to use the waste of today to make power and products tomorow. So dont fire it into the sun.
If your going to send it into space. Dump it into a crater on the moon.

See...we've covered this. The problem with storing it here on Earth is that it will, invariably, leak or be broken into using some kind of hare-brained, "Ocean's Eleven"-type scheme. The problem with the space thing is that there is always a chance of disaster.

Fortunately, I have a solution. My friend, Josh, leader of the Holy Empire of Neo-Malignity, has created a method (like, years ago) to convert normal water molecules (or something) into pure energy, or create a sun-like environment, or something (I'll have him explain it to you later). Did you see "Spider-Man 2"? It's something like that little energy thing that that octopus-guy had. However, this method, like, actually...works, without...disastrous mutations. Or something. Therefore, using Chilan Kahn's idea, we could create a sun-like environment, and the cost will be one-time-only, since the energy source is theoretically unlimited, and just, effectively, "zap" the waste.

See...we've covered this. The problem with storing it here on Earth is that it will, invariably, leak or be broken into using some kind of hare-brained, "Ocean's Eleven"-type scheme. The problem with the space thing is that there is always a chance of disaster.

The point of my idea is that it does not matter if it leaks.
The area around the dump site is huge preventing any real leakage by blown dust.

No ground water means that no matter how far down the radiation goes it will not spread much.

Using basic vaults keeps the air from getting much radiation.

The only kind of leak that could cause a problem is a broken vault... And that would only leak into the air, something that can be contained with no trouble.

As for someone breaking in and doing bad and nasty things..... How is that worse then what nations do now?
At least this way the UN will have direct control making sure that it is as secure as can be.

As for your spiderman idea..... Never mind no point in going into that.

peccavi does not support such an act, as there is the matter of where this nation would be, and how many people would have to move from their homes and lands to accomodate this. instead, i suggest a UN budget put towards the further developement of renuable energy scources, and a budget for research into the disposal (destruction) of nuclear waste.

Development of new energy sources is a great idea as always.
However there is no way of knowing how long it will take to find something that can take the place of nuiclear power.

I would place that in another law. Prehaps one that would come out before this one.

Until then, I'm sure we can find a nation with a poor people who could be paid a great price for their lands. After all.... It has no water on or near it. Not a great place to live to start with.

Add to that the income such a project would generate for the country. It would be a huge boost for them. Storage fees from all the countrys of the world, and the income from having a large and well paid security and maintance crew living there.

Why not recreate a sun like environment here on earth? It may be impossible, or at the very least improbable, but if possible, it could be easier then having to bother with the logistical nightmare of shipping thousands of millions of tons of waste per day to a sun.

Tomaks may work, but we have a dilemna with them.

There is no earthly material capable of making contact with heated plasma and retaining it's properties, thus, plasma containers are non-existant.

However, plasma is magnetic, so sphere of electromagets are applied to literally 'float' plasma away touching anything.

The tomak itself is heavily sealed and any system that adds matter to the environment, no matter how much of it is obliterated, there will still be a need dispose of the broken down molecules.

If anyone can get a functional I/O Tomak that can handle tons of material daily, then we have solved our issues.

If anyone can get a functional I/O Tomak that can handle tons of material daily, then we have solved our issues.

i'll just check my pockets aaaaand...yep, got one

but seriously, that is a good idea, albeit a very complicated one.

Here's the idea I described earlier:

"Hydrogen-Plasma Electo Hydrolysis Transfusion Cannon/Generator. A.K.A. Snail Cannon. Using a proccess called hydrolysis, the oxygen and the hydrogen in water is seperated, while the oxygen is expelled through a pipe, the hydrogen is carried by negative electrical charges into a sealed chamber where it waits to be filtered into a chamber coated in super conductive materials, and electrified by 50,000 volts of electricity forming a miniture uncontainable sun. due to its unstable nature the plasma (sun) must be contained and acceleraed by air pressure. Within .75 seconds of the plasmas' creation a hatch must be opened and pressure aplied leaving the hydrogen 1 escape route, the hatch. The overall cost of creation 2.96mil. The whole cannon has the following measurements: W-10FT L-30FT H-20FT. The materials are titanium, copper, Lawrencium, Battery(rechargable) with generators. Over all electricity used 1,000,000 volts cost's $2,300 for the first shot. The cannon then uses the plasma to recharge the batteries costing a meer 100 dollers a round. the other ammo.....water, is usually free...usually."

All credit should go to Josh, the Holy Emperor of the Holy Empire of Neo-Malignity.

I still support the shipments to the sun, only in a different matter.

To send a ship all the way from earth to the sun requires rediculous amounts on fuel for a fairly small payload, wich would create a very high price/kilo ratio.

Instead do it in steps, use a specified vehicle for each step you make:

1) Create 3 gathering facilities on the world located on the equator.

2) From these facilities, and airplane would lift a fairly small space vehicle to a very high altitude

3) From here, the space vehicle (filled with radioactive waste and unmanned) makes it's final ascend into orbit

4) The Airplane returns to earth, the space vehicle docks to a space station

5) The space station transfers the radioacive waste into a spacecraft

6) The space vehicle returns to earth and lands at the gathering facility

7) The spacecraft travels to the sun, dumps it's cargo, and return to the space station.

It will safe a lot of energy to launch a plane to a high altitude, and the short the ride for the space vehicle from earth to space station is, the better. In space itself, the spacecraft needs very little energy to travel to the sun. The spacecraft also needs no thorough cleaning, because it will not land on the earth and will not come into contact with humans again.

Nuclear waste is only a problem because the hippies keep screaming about it.

It's no more dangerous or difficult to handle than any other industrial waste you wouldn't want to touch with your bare hands.

Just cast that crap in concrete and toss it in a chunk of desert somewhere.

Build fence around that area with warning signs, put guards around to patrol the area.

Repeat as neccesary until your nation develops fusion power.

Problem solved.

I still support the shipments to the sun, only in a different matter.

To send a ship all the way from earth to the sun requires rediculous amounts on fuel for a fairly small payload, wich would create a very high price/kilo ratio.

Instead do it in steps, use a specified vehicle for each step you make:

1) Create 3 gathering facilities on the world located on the equator.

2) From these facilities, and airplane would lift a fairly small space vehicle to a very high altitude

3) From here, the space vehicle (filled with radioactive waste and unmanned) makes it's final ascend into orbit

4) The Airplane returns to earth, the space vehicle docks to a space station

5) The space station transfers the radioacive waste into a spacecraft

6) The space vehicle returns to earth and lands at the gathering facility

7) The spacecraft travels to the sun, dumps it's cargo, and return to the space station.

It will safe a lot of energy to launch a plane to a high altitude, and the short the ride for the space vehicle from earth to space station is, the better. In space itself, the spacecraft needs very little energy to travel to the sun. The spacecraft also needs no thorough cleaning, because it will not land on the earth and will not come into contact with humans again.

That's great, but there's still a chance for disaster.

Nuclear waste is only a problem because the hippies keep screaming about it.

It's no more dangerous or difficult to handle than any other industrial waste you wouldn't want to touch with your bare hands.

Just cast that crap in concrete and toss it in a chunk of desert somewhere.

Build fence around that area with warning signs, put guards around to patrol the area.

Repeat as neccesary until your nation develops fusion power.

Problem solved.

That's fine, but the amount of waste produced daily would be too large to keep people out of, there's the chance of break-in, and it could leak.

And why doesn't anyone comment on the hydro-plasma whatever thing I just posted?