NationStates Jolt Archive

I recently submitted a proposal that declared that all national and privately owned rail networks need to be upgraded to all electric locomotives, rather than continue with traditional steam or diesel locomotives. I am interested in what the UN members and delegates think of this proposal, and if I should edit the original and resubmit it.

Can't find it in the list.

In any case, what's wrong with steam locomotives?

Can't find it in the list.

In any case, what's wrong with steam locomotives?
The Proposal currently isn't up for a vote. The proposal doesn't outlaw steam or diesel locos but it recommends and gives incentives to Nations who revamp their networks to clean electric locos. I personnally am a huge train fan and I like all of the styles of locos, this proposal is in the intrest of the game Nation States.

The Proposal currently isn't up for a vote. The proposal doesn't outlaw steam or diesel locos but it recommends and gives incentives to Nations who revamp their networks to clean electric locos. I personnally am a huge train fan and I like all of the styles of locos, this proposal is in the intrest of the game Nation States.

If you give us the text we can tell you what we think. The devil (and God, according to Einstein) is in the details. We need to know the specifics.

Here is the old proposal

It is known that many nation's rail networks need to be updated to clean standards in the intrest of conserving energy and cutting down on pollution.
This proposal hopes to offer incentives to nations that heed the following suggestions

1. Electrify all major rail lines within said nation.
2. Replace all steam and or diesel locomotives with clean effecient ALL-Electric locomotives.

This proposal also hopes to create a UN council of Railway Effecincy, Saftey, and Construction. This council will oversee all improvements to the rail infastructure in nations that request UN aid to improve. Representatives from the ten nation council will also make recommendations to the nation in question on how the best way to improve their network.

Based on completion, nations who meet the standard set by the UNRESC, will be compensated with incentives to be determined by the UNRESC.

This proposal hopes to offer incentives to nations that heed the following suggestions

1. Electrify all major rail lines within said nation.
2. Replace all steam and or diesel locomotives with clean effecient ALL-Electric locomotives.


I guess the next question is about what kind of "incentives" will be offered. the UN is quite limited in what it can offer in the way of incentives, except the incentive of being legal. Or a nice pat on the back.

Plus, just a reminder, make sure the actual proposal text has the word proposal nowhere in it. It makes it really hard to invision as a resolution, which is what we're aiming for here.

First, while a UN resolution like this would be a financial windfall to my government (after Spice Melange processing) our second largest export is in fact diesel and electric engines and rail cars. Of course our largest customers are many of the North Pacific nations, the most notable Mikitivity Bahn.

But as one rail fan to another, there is a reason my government produces and uses diesel road switching engines, like the Stark GP-9. Electric engines require electric lines in what are often harsh environments, and the slopes of Mount Delenn are completely unsuited to electrified rail.

I'd ask that you make allowances for diesel engines at governments decressions.

The real point you should be driving home is that rail shouldn't be focused on one type of engine over another, but that rail is vastily superior to automotive traffice *when* you have a dense population and a good network. A simple resolution focusing on this might be the way to go, because if you force large nationalized rail companies like Mikitivity Bahn to do away with its wonderful GP-9s and other road switchers, MB would probably consider moving to diesel based semis and buses to move people to and fro.

Furthermore, MB will not submit to any international rail standards if they are *less* protective than those currently in practice by MB. I'd suggest that a clause to this effect be made, though perhaps this can be already assumed.

Sophista has little use for a rail system, as the expenses involved with building and maintaining bridges from each island to the next would be astronomical. However, for nations that don't face the same geographic hurdles, choosing a well-maintained and designed rail network instead of endless miles of highways would be quite beneficial.

I concur that approaching this topic not from the regulation standpoint, but from that of encouragement would be a better route. Some nations don't have basic rail service to begin with, and I feel reaching out to their needs as well would increase the viability of a resolution. The Sophistan government has yet to take a position on diesel versus electric rail, and recommends further study be put into the matter. On long stretches of isolated rail, it might be net-beneficial in terms of energy expended to use diesel engines instead of pumping that much juice through such a long expanse.

New Virgina would possibly be interested in this proposition if the "incentives" were explained in detail. If these incentives were monetary the question of WHERE the funds would be acquired is a HUGE issue.
As a national issue, our nuclear plants give us and overabundance of power and the use of electric trains in surrounding nations could increase our exports.
What we would not support is a U.N. Council that has any power beyond making recommendations and the possible small incentive.

So basically, the representative from New Virginia is saying that so long as his country can make money off of the resolution, he supports it, but only if it can't manifest actual power or challenge his government. You'll have to pardon me if I find that a wholly offensive perversion of the goals of the United Nations.

The government of Sophista has clarified it's position, and stands by the idea of using diesel locomotives in areas where electrifying the rails would be inefficient. This would include certain industrial lines where diesel power holds an advantage in pulling power over electric engines as well as areas where the electrification of would be unfeasible due to hostile terrain or distance from power stations.

Furthermore, I have been asked to inquire to the possibility of including something about mag-lev trains, and similar advanced rail technology. Installing such an infrastructure would no doubt cover the disadvantages of both diesel and electric rail.

We're against this one. Although our public transport runs on renewables a number of historical railways exist in our country that still run on coal.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

The People's Repubic of Bravakia is very interested in supporting this idea. With all the money the government is going to have laying around the office after the Ban on the Trafficing of Humans, we're interested in spending this money on infrastructure improvement projects.

When Sudaea proposes to electrify rail networks, it means the principle lines that interconnect the major cities and populations centres of the nations in questions. It is not manditory to upgrade any nations rail networks THAT would be a overstatement of the UN's power. I know that the incentives are not clearly defined and it will be addressed in a possible future resolution.

When Sudaea proposes to electrify rail networks, it means the principle lines that interconnect the major cities and populations centres of the nations in questions. It is not manditory to upgrade any nations rail networks THAT would be a overstatement of the UN's power. I know that the incentives are not clearly defined and it will be addressed in a possible future resolution.

Perhaps the proposal (if it fails to reach quorum) can be modified to make this point clear. Though UN resolutions are recommendations, the Confederated City States of Mikitivity is a mountain country, and thus many of Mikitivity Bahn's service areas are what most nations would consider "rural" and not well suited for electric service.

That said, MB would be more than happen to work with other nations in the North Pacific to build a high speed network connecting to Miervatia (the least difficult of the city states to reach by rail, as the region serves as the MB hub). MB certainly would be eager for standard gauges to be developed.

It also may be advisable to make allowances for historic lines that wish to continue to use steam powered locomotives. Being that these lines are often tourist based, I would think that if the resolution were to focus on say ... transitioning from the massive global "Automobile" industrial to a rail based industry for things like heavy freight and passenger traffice, that a few other green states would look favourably upon this proposal.

[OOC: You could make the resolution an "Environmental" proposal and target the Autmotive industry. What we'd want to do, is collect data on urban non-point air pollution loading and see if things like light rails are proven to be cost effective. They are the hook, but the "international" justification would be exactly what you've suggested above: connecting various cities together to promote the movement of people and frieght.]