NationStates Jolt Archive

Edit: All gone.

The two parts of this proposal can be found here:

Human Rights: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=345932
Social Justice: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=345910

Not bad, not bad.

However, I think that you're going have to stick in an exemption in for religious jobs- Islam and Roman Catholicism don't allow female priests. Then again, that could go in the 2nd one.

As for females in the military, I'm in favour, some may not be.

And also jobs that require playing a role such as acting.

I'll work the idea into the second draft

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

I'm encouraged by this early draft. However, I would note that the article beginning "Deplores..." has the word 'weather', when I believe you want 'whether'.

Kind regards
Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN

Corrected in second draft. Thanks.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

The Federation of Jessicia will consider supporting this proposal as is. But not if it's only optional to equalize military. Unless of course a nation does not consider it to be a job.

Priests and such would not be effeted as they are parts of a religion, dictated by beliefs, and count under religious freedom.

The Federation of Jessicia, Foreign Affairs Minister, Braxton Conrad.

Ill say exactly what I did with the women's rights proposal; Women need special attention to raise them to a level of equality for men; but they should not get access to privilidges specifically for men. Women and men are equal, women don't deserve more.

As for the rest of the document it is only suggesting what is already suggested and/or is common law in most countries, and suggestions will not change the others.

This proposal is not worthy of the time of Voroziniya. Assuming this actually did give men and women equality, not giving women advantages, there are simply too many other crisises in the world.

The United Socialist States of Voroziniya

Concerning the issue of a gender's role in society, each individual nation retains the right to administer and adhere to their own social structure within their own borders. It is society, not the world government, who has the right to dictate what is acceptable activity for any gender.

Thesselonius will not support this proposition. Each nation has a right to dictate their own society, it is not the place for a majority to say what is right.

You must understand, Comrade, prejudice is stupidity and arrogance, and while you may be too weak to take a stand and trade off certain national freedoms for civil and social equality, prejudice will not be so meek. If you are not willing to take a stand for something I believe you think is right, you are not worthy of active UN nations' concerns.

If your argument was true, the UN would crumble. You would claim that everything is up to the nation, right? The UN is meant to enforce what most people agree to, to bring about a closer equality between nations. It is called democracy. And The United Socialist States of Voroziniya understands that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

The United Socialist States of Voroziniya

You also must consider the right of the nation to retain it's social and ethnic identity. If the pure goal of the United Nations was merely to make all nations like one another, the need for individual nations would be negated.

You presented a valid point, however I believe that the issues of divorce and military service are not aspects that the UN should handle, seeing as these are not issues of human rights, but issues of social structure. Thesselonius will support this proposal in spirit, but consideration for the rights of sovereignty of a nation must be taken into consideration.

Do as you will, Comrade

There are certain situations when a nation must give up its practices in the name of global progress. Soveriegnty is no excuse to deny what is held by most nations as a basic civil right, as all human beings are born as equals, regardless of where that birth happens.

There are certain situations when a nation must give up its practices in the name of global progress. Soveriegnty is no excuse to deny what is held by most nations as a basic civil right, as all human beings are born as equals, regardless of where that birth happens.

Indeed.

Too little do people think the cause of Equality > Soveriegnty.

Now, as to :

Ill say exactly what I did with the women's rights proposal; Women need special attention to raise them to a level of equality for men; but they should not get access to privilidges specifically for men. Women and men are equal, women don't deserve more.
I would hope the pre-amble part below would have resolved such concern.
The United Nations notes with sorrow the precedent in history and contemporary times where male dominated cultures infringe upon the rights of women.The following document is intended to both relieve and resolve much of these discriminative actions, not for one sex, but for all.
This should prtotect all sexes, male, female, and/or other or future ones. Its important to note there is also a national issue relating to trans-gender people, so I might suggest the The Black New World add that they be applicable to the center of their choice. In fact, we may need to broaden this to protect hemaphrodites too, as myself and The Black New World talked over in MSN. Things to consider ... But any-way, I hope that bolded part helps with your concerns some what. Its should do, in effect.

And, as to the following concen :
As for the rest of the document it is only suggesting what is already suggested and/or is common law in most countries, and suggestions will not change the others.
The entire point of "suggesting", "calling upon", "encourage", etc, etc, etc, is to help placate the nations crying "Hands off my Soveriegnty" while still demonstrating this is the will of the N.S.U.N. and we will some-where, some-how make life better for people. And, to add further, there is always the 1st Codifying Act clause, which while not strictly allowing any kind of repeal, certainly leaves room for change, to adapt to future conditions.

The Federation of Jessicia will consider supporting this proposal as is. But not if it's only optional to equalize military. Unless of course a nation does not consider it to be a job.

Priests and such would not be effeted as they are parts of a religion, dictated by beliefs, and count under religious freedom.

Agreed. That should be about right regarding religion, when I get a moment I'll read up on it more and see if I can assimilate it or work around it.

I'm encouraged by this early draft. However, I would note that the article beginning "Deplores..." has the word 'weather', when I believe you want 'whether'.

I claim contemporary " un-sanity " . ;)

( I write better late at night, but proportionally lose the ability to spell ... )

...

I must say, I'm oddly pleased at all this, what started as trying to help Javala with their own proposal has grown into an entirely different organism. I must thank the fertile minds involved, namely The Black New World, and the pedantic wonders who stalk these halls, of course ... ;)

This should prtotect all sexes, male, female, and/or other or future ones. Its important to note there is also a national issue relating to trans-gender people, so I might suggest the The Black New World add that they be applicable to the center of their choice. In fact, we may need to broaden this to protect hemaphrodites too, as myself and The Black New World talked over in MSN. Things to consider ... But any-way, I hope that bolded part helps with your concerns some what. Its should do, in effect.

Broadening…

I claim contemporary " un-sanity " . ;)

( I write better late at night, but proportionally lose the ability to spell ... )

My fault. I blame the dyslexia.

I must say, I'm oddly pleased at all this, what started as trying to help Javala with their own proposal has grown into an entirely different organism. I must thank the fertile minds involved, namely The Black New World, and the pedantic wonders who stalk these halls, of course ... ;)

Three cheers for the NSUN!

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

I don't understand the purpose/reasoning for clause 5... Doesn't quite make sense to me. May be a misreading or misunderstanding.

5. The Nation States United Nations does suggest that all illustrations of genitalia for educational and instruction purposes includes both internal and external sexual organs and all parts of said organs, including those that are deemed 'unnecessary' for reproduction and/or offensive.

In other words, in the interests of the expansion of knowledge and better education, all educational or instructive material / media relating to genitalia, must clearly demonstrate the location and presence of all structures found in said genitalia, including and parts deemed no required for reproduction or which may for some reason be thought of as offensive.

This it is hoped will suggest to nations that regardless of personal morality or considerations of delicate sensibilities, education must always win over those two mentioned factors, in the interests of reducing ignorance and benefitting the universal cause of equality.

Or something like that ... ;)

I don't understand the purpose/reasoning for clause 5... Doesn't quite make sense to me. May be a misreading or misunderstanding.

It was Lady Des's idea, when I asked her for an explanation she said 'Have you ever seen a tampon packet?' And then she threw a book at me. A hard back. She isn't verry happy with me right now…

Apparently some places have a tendency of representing the vulva as two holes and some flaps of skin, leaving off the clitoris, representing the vagina as a big open space, and other things. This leads to women having a negative image of there genitals and/or thinking themselves deformed.

Also our sex educators like to mock the education of some other countries with the phrase 'Prostate, what prostate?'

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

It seems like a good resolution, and everyone else seems to be doing a great job of making accurate points and editing considerations. So, I really have nothing to add in those regards.

HOWEVER, I want to warn you about something VERY IMPORTANT so you don't learn the hard way like I did. When I submitted a proposal recently, I kept getting 'Too Many Characters' error messages. The good part was, it told me how many over I was. So I whittled and whittled and reworded and took out, until it was of acceptable size.

What I learned was:

You are limited by the NSUN proposal queue to what appears to be approximately 3,460 characters (with spaces)... only. You better use a word processing program with a 'character count' function, because right now you're at about 3,960 characters (with spaces).

I took the liberty of checking for you because it seemed rather lengthy. Line breaks don't matter. You probably want to do a spell check too ;)


...

Your concerns have already been expressed and I am working on trimming down. As my spellchecker doesn’t come up with anything would you please point out my mistakes and, if you have the time, give me a hand with correcting them?

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

ahem

EDIT :

Well, sratch that, I did read wrong after all, does not quite fit.

But since we have had Cogitation check for us, it turns out it covers two catagories but can only be classed as one, yet ... so it needs to be split some, at the end of which will mean it should be good to go in two seperate halves, both complementing each other in deed, if not in word.

Oh, and clause 8 needs dropping any-way, turns out I've not managed to pull off my little burst of legalese as I would like, and it could be classed as allowing repeals, which was not exactly my intent at all, but I accept the arguments of Cogitation on this one.

So I think myself and The Black New World will get cracking on this soon enough, and maybe even start a new thread for these two babies. All depends, I will consult The Black New World on this via MSN next chance I get.

Oh, and just for Enn :

PLUG ! PLUG ! http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=341787 PLUG ! PLUG !

Oh, and just for Enn :

PLUG ! PLUG ! http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=341787 PLUG ! PLUG !
Thanks, Komokom. Every little bit helps.

Update : After an MSN meeting, The Black New World will handle the social justice and such, and I'll do up the human rights side of things, with a combined effort telegram campaign. I will get cracking on my half in about 12 hours or so, I'll be hitting the bed soon.

* Not too sure about the pre-amble, clause seperating is easy, but pre-amble will need a near total re-write for one ... once again, I'll look into this when I arise from slumber ... ;)

Update : After an MSN meeting, The Black New World will handle the social justice and such, and I'll do up the human rights side of things,

Eh?
04/08/2004 12:27:24 Thats nice of him ! ... He is been sarcastic, isn't he ...: Which one if either do you want to re-write / organise ?
04/08/2004 12:27:46 Thats nice of him ! ... He is been sarcastic, isn't he ...: * In the interests of equality in the work place, splitting the work, ;)
04/08/2004 12:28:19 carrots are very very complex vegetables (red): :P
04/08/2004 12:28:25 carrots are very very complex vegetables (red): power mad...
04/08/2004 12:28:32 carrots are very very complex vegetables (red): I'll do HR
04/08/2004 12:28:44 Thats nice of him ! ... He is been sarcastic, isn't he ...: Alrighty, social justice for me it is then , :)


Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

Oh, right. In my defence, I should stop posting after 11 pm ... :)

Ah well, Social Justice for ME then ... :rolleyes:

* Fine, ( pokes out tongue ) its easier any-way, ;)