NationStates Jolt Archive

The old hands will remember this one. Yes, it's back, and yes, I still want to get this through. I'm just putting it on the forums for the next few days, won't submit it for a little while.

Habeas Corpus

Category: Human Rights Strength: Significant

Habeas Corpus; by the passing of this resolution instituting the legal principle of Habeas Corpus by the voting members, Habeas Corpus will thus be affirmed by the United Nations as a set and irrefutable legal principle to which all member nations and all associated internal agencies are subject.

Recognising that Habeas Corpus is a founding principle of law in many nations, the UN formally adopts Habeas Corpus across all member states.

To clearly define Habeas Corpus:

Habeas Corpus is the legal principle that gives a person the right to not be held without charge. A charge must be filed with the judicial authorities of the country in which the suspected crime is committed within 48 hours of the person being held by police, or any other body charged with the upholding of the nation's laws. This period does not apply to any time when the judicial authorities are not active, such as weekends or national holidays. Habeas Corpus also declares accordingly that once a charge is filed, then the person should be treated as per the Definition of Fair Trial resolution.

Further noting,

If the captured or detained person is a prisoner of war or is captured or detained in an area of military conflict by forces of whom may be recognised as the opposition, then he or she must be held as per the previously recognised and enforced Wolfish Convention on PoWs.

So, what do you all think? Any changes need to be made?

Yay it's back. You have my support. At least, you have me nagging at my delegate :D

The Confederacy of South Puyallup fully supports this proposal.

The promotion of justice and due process in all nations is among the forefront of the United Nations' duties. Kudos are in order for the nation of Enn for furthering this agenda.

* Insert big rubber stamp of approval marking here. :D

I'll poke the delegate next I see her on MSN to make sure. ;)

Cave Canem supports the principle of Habeas Corpus and will back this proposal without reservation.

Psh. I wish I could poke my delegate. Anymore he's too busy ranting to himself in leetspeak about nuking newbs and playing online games to pay attention to the politics of the region. I really should shuffle off into a new region, if only I had the time, motivation, or a suitable destination.

Yet again, you have our unqualified support.

Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN

Meatopiaa gladly offers it's enthusiastc support of this proposal, with one suggestion of some significance:

A charge must be filed with the judicial authorities of the country in which the suspected crime is committed within 24 hours of the person being held by police, or any other body charged with the upholding of the nation's laws.

I have some background in law, so please bare with me here. I'll try to be brief, but it's not a brief subject. While it seems appropriate, 24 hours is far too short a time for "charges" to be brought. In these modern times, the accused are always arrested based on "probable cause" to make that arrest, and formal charges are brought by a prosecuting attorney in front of a judicial officer or judge after reports are written and evidence is officially logged. Many times, an arrest must be made quickly to deaden the propensity for crimes to continue at the hands of or by the actions of the accused. Also, sometimes it may take more than 24 hours just to process a large crime scene. Gathering and processing evidence is very time consuming. You know the guy did it, he's got blood on his hands, but the blood, evidence, and victims are spread over blocks, or miles, or even over state lines. It also takes considerable time to place all the pieces and evidence together in a tidy package for the judicial officer, or judge, presiding over arraignment of official charges. Additionally, it also takes even more time to gather all the evidence that is known, if there are multiple sources, as in a "crime spree".

If an accused is given a scant 24 hours to be officially arraigned on charges, and there is "Probable Cause" to make an immediate arrest, but while the 24 hours elapses it takes 25 hours to get everything in order for the actual arraignment, they'd have to be released. They're out raping, molesting, murdering, and whatever you can imagine again. They may also be a flight risk and flee across borders. With the heavy burden on the courts with the exceedingly high number of accused criminals that require arraignment on charges, it would be impossible to make the 24 hour deadline... especially if your nation has 2.92 Billion people ;) Plus, most, if not all courts, operate on a "9 to 5" basis during the day and are closed on weekends. If a person is arrested at 8:00 am on Saturday and courts aren't open until Monday.. uh oh.

The time for official charges to be lodged before a judicial officer, or judge, is usually a minimum of 48 hours, and that's 48 hours work day time, weekends are not inluded because courts are closed on weekends and the court prosecutors as well as the public defenders are on their days off. Most often, nations and local governments allow for 72 hours. It is a protection for the citizens. With 72 hours, it is far more likely charges and evidence will be ready, and far less likely the community will be victimized by the violent criminal who was released too soon by a law that does not take the over-burdening of our courts into consideration.

72-hours is not unreasonable. If you would reconsider your 24-hour time limit and make it 72-hours, you'd go a long way to actually helping the innocent victims of the community as well as the wrongly held or accused. Don't forget, if this passes as a resolution, it can never be changed. Let's not take a chance on sacrificing our women and children unnecessarily.

...

Let's not take a chance on sacrificing our women and children unnecessarily.

No, do it right, with a big knife and a stone altar. Sale Starts Sunday !

;)

* I'll leave the time reason / argument to Enn, as its their proposal and I remember them having some experiance dealing with this particular " problem " as some see it.

No, do it right, with a big knife and a stone altar.

ROFLMAO! Damn Jolt, there's no maniacally laughing smiley.

No, I don't have anything relevant or sensible to contribute right now.

Meatopia: This has been a bone of contention throughout the entire life-time of this proposal (and that's several months in RL). You, however, are the first person to make a sound, reasoned argument over this for extending the amount of time to officially file charges.

I still don't really like 72 hours, and that's just about my own political beliefs. However, 48 working hours seems like a reasonable amount of time.

:goes off to edit proposal:

I haven't submitted yet, and probably won't for a bit of time, so if anyone else has suggestions, please make them!

Meatopia: This has been a bone of contention throughout the entire life-time of this proposal (and that's several months in RL). You, however, are the first person to make a sound, reasoned argument over this for extending the amount of time to officially file charges.

I still don't really like 72 hours, and that's just about my own political beliefs. However, 48 working hours seems like a reasonable amount of time.

:goes off to edit proposal:

I haven't submitted yet, and probably won't for a bit of time, so if anyone else has suggestions, please make them!

Very good sir, 48 hours is an equitable compromise, which I think will help you get it passed this time around, if you also include an amendment in your draft to include the time exception for weekends... for the reasons I've already stated. If you were to incorporate the "weekends not included" in your 48-hours time table, your Habeas Corpus proposal has Meatopiaa's enthusiastic support. It's not really a political consideration, it's just a realistic consideration.

...

I think 48 hours in this case is reasonable. As is the weekend non-inclusion point. I think this is all quite acceptable. I'm glad those individuals who were pushing the special exclusions provisions have not re-awakened. I am certainly looking forward to this getting onto the open floor, and being passed, naturally.

;)

Don't forget to drop a notice on the regional H.Q. when you eventually put it forward.

48 hours is reasonable. Add something about getting permission from a judge if longer is needed.

While you're at it, add some stuff about the right to a lawyer, to be read your rights and a telephone call, unless the last one would compromise an active investigation.

You have my support as the delegate of the nazi region of nose pickers.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

The People's Republic of Monhegan approves of this measure as revised.

48 hours is reasonable. Add something about getting permission from a judge if longer is needed.
Well, you would assume that after 48 hours the law enforcement bodies involved would have sufficient evidence to present to a judge or magistrate or respective individual handling such matters to make the formal charges. Thats the point.

While you're at it, add some stuff about the right to a lawyer, to be read your rights and a telephone call, unless the last one would compromise an active investigation.
Oh my, I've fallen into Law & Order, don't know yet which one ... ;)

See, problem is, it depends on how the legal system of the country works. If you start dictating how member states handle local level policing all your going to hear from them is the loud cry of " Hands Off My Soverignty, You Bad Person, You ! ", cause then it stops being a human rights concern, but more of a piss off the nationalists move.

Also, some countries may use the Inquisitorial system : The System of trial used in civil law countries where the magistrate or judge collects the evidence for both sides in cooperation with the prosecution after inquiries are made. ( Excel HSC Legal Studies Definition ) or some variant of such a system in which a defence may not be required, although before I could go on with this line of argument, I would require to re-read the fair trial and such past resolution/s. Hmmm. Something to think about.

It may be best to leave it as-is and allow it to be interpretted by individual countries. Meh, who knows.

* Throws back the talking-stick ... :)

You have my support as the delegate of the nazi region of nose pickers.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

* Coughs in a polite fashion, and hands Lady Des a tissue. ;)

I have to say that most of my concerns were noted in the previous post. However, I agree in principle with this resolution, but I'm not exactly sure it is appropriate for the UN to dabble in it. I question the validity of the UN to invoke such upon the soveriegnty of a nation. As long as there are no human rights violations, why can't a nation use another system of criminal justice? To me, this starts to pave the path to the development of a world-wide civil code.

" U.N. Article # 123456789, we resolve that it is illegal to remove the little tag from a matress ... " :D

Well, I agree 100 % with resolving Habeus Corpus, but I do find the idea of reading you your rights, allowing under conditions a telephone call, a lawyer, and a hot burito a bit too much ;). Best I would think to remain glued to the solidity of Habeas Corpus, and not deviate from the well marked path it provides.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg <- My new flag I made ! :D

This resolution if submitted will have this nation's support as a Delegate.

Psh. I wish I could poke my delegate. Anymore he's too busy ranting to himself in leetspeak about nuking newbs and playing online games to pay attention to the politics of the region. I really should shuffle off into a new region, if only I had the time, motivation, or a suitable destination.

If you have a slightly liberal viewpoint, our small region of 15 nations would love to have you. We mostly know each other but would be happy for you to come along if you share a similar viewpoint. :D Drop me a telegram and view region Ceasarea.

If you have a slightly liberal viewpoint, our small region of 15 nations would love to have you. We mostly know each other but would be happy for you to come along if you share a similar viewpoint. :D Drop me a telegram and view region Ceasarea.

Too late, I got to Sophista first ...

Mine, Mine I Say ! ! ! ( Shows sharp teeth, growls )

:D

Although their new delegate still does do all those things.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

Will be submitting soon, if my region decides to give me another endorsement.

:glares at fellow region members:

Also have made the change to extend the period over weekends.

Will be submitting soon, if my region decides to give me another endorsement.

:glares at fellow region members:

Also have made the change to extend the period over weekends.

Yup, looks great. Good job. My full support is guaranteed, or your money back ;)

Too late, I got to Sophista first ...

Mine, Mine I Say ! ! ! ( Shows sharp teeth, growls )

:D

You may have caught him this time, but there are yet others who can be taken yet! *waving fist* ;)

You may have caught him this time, but there are yet others who can be taken yet! *waving fist* ;)
* Stuffs Mikitivity in a bag and drags them away to my region !

...

* Failing that, sends - another - telegram asking if they'd like to join the region ...

;)
Will be submitting soon, if my region decides to give me another endorsement.

:glares at fellow region members:

Also have made the change to extend the period over weekends.
* Goes red in face.

...

Hey, I've already ... hmmm ...

* I will poke the region H.Q. about this. Sorry Enn !

We would support it if we find the proposal in the the proposal list.

The exceptions for weekends is unnecessary due to the fact that the so-called Investigation judges have a permanent service. They are a presence of at least one of them day and night and on every day of the week. That doesn´t depend on the opening hours of the courts. As a matter of fact. In some countries courts are closed up till one month in the summer. I hope that this resolution wouldn´t mean that arrested people would wait for that time????
48 hours is appropiate and justifiable.
If there is a state of emergency there should however be exceptions - like prolonging that for a week or even more.
I would suggest a clause that allows nations to suspend this in the case of a state of emergency.
However: other safeguards may be included - like ordering another maximum time (one or two weeks).

Will be submitting as soon as I'm done looking over the forum. Thank you for all your suggestions!

Kybernetia: I'm going to keep the weekend exception clause there, as I know that at least in some parts of the real world, there may not be anyone around, even in the case of national defense warnings.

Has been submitted. Any help with gaining approvals would definitely be appreciated.

You have my full support and will continue to have it until this proposal reaches quorum, no matter how many tries it takes.

Runs to inform delegate via civil H.Q. , ;)

The Democratic Republic of Xerxes855, regional Delegate to SMEYC, voices its approvel of this proposal.

I also support this proposal...I'll tell my delegate about this one :-)

Has 51, needs 85. Thankyou everyone who has helped so far.

If it doesn't get through this time (and there's still some time to go) I will definitely put this forward again.

Nice to know that there are still some decent proposal writers still hanging around. While our region has dwindled from a mighty 40+ votes to a mere two, we've still the power to Approve well-thought-out proposals. (As long as these two lads in white jackets don't sedate me again, that is.)


Feels good to be back, even if only for a short visit.

M.J. Donovan, CEO Emeritus, Frisbeeteria.

Has 79, needs 55. Will submit again on Friday (unless some delegates decide to support while it's still up, of course).

Thankyou again, everybody.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

I have gone on the proposal list twice to endorse it but I kept getting distracted by imaginary life…

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

Unfortunatly, it didn't reach quorum this time, but I will re-submit on Friday and do personal campaigning then.

Still, 80-odd is pretty good without any personal campaigning. Thankyou for those who aided this time around.

Habeas Corpus has just been re-submitted, and campaigning has begun.

Approved.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

I have submitted my approval of this proposal, as it is clearly a proper extention to the two previously passed and listed proposals.

I look forward to voting on this issue in quorum.

The Confederacy of South Puyallup stills endorses this excellent proposal.

I will re-submit on Friday and do personal campaigning then.
Poor strategy, Enn. It's going to be up for the weekend, but not the week. It's busier here during the week, probably moreso when school is in session. IMHO the best time to submit is Wednesday or Thursday morning, right after update. (Edit: I don't actually know when update occurs anymore, so my timing may be off) That gives you the week to get rolling and the weekend to clinch the deal.

Luck. Oh, approved as well.

Poor strategy, Enn. It's going to be up for the weekend, but not the week. It's busier here during the week, probably moreso when school is in session. IMHO the best time to submit is Wednesday or Thursday morning, right after update. (Edit: I don't actually know when update occurs anymore, so my timing may be off) That gives you the week to get rolling and the weekend to clinch the deal.

Luck. Oh, approved as well.
Unfortunatly, I have very little chance to access the game during the week, this week being an exception. Hence my choosing of this submission time. However, I will keep submitting this for some time, as I want it through before I go on camp in a week's time.

Currently, it is on 49, needs 86. Any more support would definitely be appreciated.

Currently on 75, needs 60. Expires on Monday, so still plenty of time for more support.

Hmm... meant to expire today, and it has gone, but others slated to expire today are still there. Hmm...

Last time I got to see it, there were 79 in support. I will submit again tomorrow afternoon.