NationStates Jolt Archive

Tell me what you think:

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The United Nations,

AWARE that international scientists are observing large asteroids, comets, etc. that could potentially, at some point in time, strike the planet Earth,

RECOGNIZING that such a catastrophic event could destroy all life on Earth,

RECOGNIZING that Earth and its inhabitants are powerless to stop large-scale celestial bodies or other extraterrestrial objects,

RECALLING its responsibilities to the U.N. Resolution "Tracking Near Earth Objects,"

RECALLING its responsibility to preserve life, humanity, and international security,

ACTING under the Charter of the United Nations,


1. RESOLVES to construct a network of planetary defense cannons --- the Grand Cannons --- capable of guarding Earth from any space-born threat, and for NO OTHER PURPOSE,

2. RESOLVES to build the Grand Cannons in AGREED-UPON, safe, isolated locations --- either on the Earth's surface or in near-Earth orbit,

3. DECIDES to bring together the scientists, engineers, and diplomatic observers of the world in a to-be-announced location to pool resources, ideas, innovations, opinions,

4. DECIDES to construct the Grand Cannons under the strict supervision of all Member Nations and the U.N.-designated scientific/engineering team,

5. RESOLVES to have every Member Nation help in funding this project, with more-developed nations contributing a moderately increased amount, to ensure the less-developed nations can also gain GLOBAL SECURITY,

6. STRONGLY AFFIRMS that the Grand Cannons will be used for international defense purposes ONLY, and used only when a significant majority AGREES its usage is appropriate,

7. DECIDES to have to-be-agreed-upon Task Forces, with representatives from all Member Nations, to safeguard the Grand Cannon defense network sites,

8. AFFIRMS that the Grand Cannons are the direct property of the United Nations and the collective whole of the Member Nations.

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and why was this proposal deleted?

OOC: What was the category?

Frankly, it is actually better written than most proposals ... and while I think you'll have a hard time selling it (trust me, I had plenty of hostile telegrams with Tracking Near Earth Objects), if I were a mod I'd let it run its natural course.

If the justification is that the Space Defense Initiative was defeated, the mods are wrong ... its defeat doesn't perclude looking at *differently* constructed proposals. If it is the SciFi Fantasy thing at work, well, they've doomed us to a life time of "Save Trees, Bunny Rabbits, and Little 3rd Grader" resolutions ... that and the continunal obsession players have with gay marriage, prostitutes, and gun control. But the mods could have figured this was akin to Arm Bears.

Cog has been including in the sticky threads justifications for some proposal deletions. I'd telegram him / her and be polite about it.

I think you have a fair shot at showing that this isn't a joke to you.

Good Luck!

p.s. so you're a fan of Robotech as well, huh? ;)

Sorry, good point.

CATEGORY: International Security
STRENGTH: Strong

Yeah, I was being serious about this one, I think it'd be a good idea. It's not like I didn't put a single practical thing in it.

The thing is that Cog doesn't let anyone directly telegram him, I thought. I want to though.

Thanks, and thanks also for getting Tracking Near Earth Objects passed.

P.S. Oh yeah, nice man. Mile-deep cannons. But the Grand Cannon was just one giant mf in Alaska - this is Grand Cannons scattered throughout the world. ;)

OOC:
First thank you very much! :) This has been a cr@ppy week for me, and it is nice to see silver linings.

I *know* you were serious ... but I've been there ...

Months ago we talked about crab people, dancing penguins, clone armies, vampires, elves, and killer robots in resolutions and proposals all the time. People actually did incorporate elements of fantasy and scifi into proposals -- non of which made it to the UN floor. The forum was a BLAST then.

The truth is, as much as I love the heavy handed, referenced, and real-tech / real-world resolutions and treaties, I think that the game itself *needs* to have things that aren't so c.2000 included in order to reach out to other players.
This game has so many faces, it is a shame when one face dominates, be it:

Invaders and their griefing (supported the game code)
-vs-
UN Political Roleplayers (hitting people with massive telegram campaigns and long resolutions).

There should be proposals like yours and many others in the queue. What reaches the floor of course should be a reflection of the will of the UN Delegates. And the category and strength are completely correct. You are essentially building a SDI system. Kinda at least. It isn't that completely fantasy either. The very fact that the US government is talking about the idea, means that the government has already considered it.

In Japan (I was a guest of Shimizu Corp. in 1995) they are already planning to the construction of Sea Colonies. Entire cities in the ocean! It isn't published, but I have *seen* some pretty amazing things ... so yeah, I think you need to find a reason why. (I'm having a Blade Runner "Tears In Rain" moment here folks.)

Cog probably scans through many so many proposals, that he / she can't take the time to answer or preview proposals. I've flagged *one* that was clearly out of context: "Ban the UN" to the mods. I'm sure other Delegates do the same.

So don't give up, and don't take offense. But if you can find out why it was bumped, we can work around that no problem.

Now for survivability of your resolution ... .

One option is to find a real world example.

Another option is to approach this from a "study" POV. Don't build the project, but comission the study for it. (I'm an engineer ... we do this all the time in state government.)


They typically look like this:

- No Action Current Baseline
- No Action Future Conditions
- Alternative 1 Future Conditions
- Alternative 2 Future Conditions
- Alternative 3 Future Conditions
- Alternative 4 Future Conditions

Government agencies don't really look at much more than a few alternatives, and consultants are always trying to keep the list to 3 or so.

Anyways, that is one thought in a possible way to *move* your proposal such that the mods will be less likely to bump it.

A completely new direction: an idea I was hoping to run with, but you are certainly welcome to it:

An Earth Observing System. (EOS). You can run with this two directions. One is to look skyward and find funds and places to drop NEO hunting telescopes. The UK is working on this now in the real world. "Where do we want these telescopes?"

And that leads to another idea: The EOS is also the real world name of a NASA program that climatologists, etc. are using to collect scientific info on the Earth.

http://eospso.gsfc.nasa.gov/

Pay attention to the air quality links below. My other pet project (actually I've got a lot of ideas where to SHOVE and PULL NationStates) is to develop some resolutions about air quality (transboundary pollution is a big international problem) and climate change (again global in focus).

I'm not saying you should abandon your idea. I like it to a degree ... but I also think selling a defense system will break the liberal coalition that is currently running the UN. (Note when I say running, this liberal coalition does not formally exist, but it most certainly is starting to form into a cohesive body and it most certainly is what determines what the next resolution in the queue is.)

There are tons of good ideas ... but we are now at a point in the game when the ideas that are left are HARDer to work through. Here is my "to research list":

Air Quality
Transboundary Pollution
Climate Change
Water Quality
Desertification
HIV/AIDS part II: sexual transmission
Convention on Genocide
Convention on Torture
Biological Diversity
Cultural Diversity
Diplomatic Immunity / Embassy Rights <--- in progress
Convention on Weapons of Mass Destruction
Women's Rights <--- in progress
Electronic Voting -- Election Monitoring (easy and fun)! :)

Bear in mind that Tracking Near Earth Objects was based on an idea that SCOS OJ brought to the UN. I watched and defended his resolution like you wouldn't believe ... in part because I believe it is a great idea, and in part because my *second* Model UN resolution was NEO based. Though I was 17 at the time and called it "Totally Awesome Action Jammin Asteroid Resolution" (TAAJAR). Yes, I originally wrote a resolution to create a new UN committee - TAAJAR, that would sit around in UN Observatories and watch the skies, but also tried to inject some fun into it at the same time and was handing my rump! :(

But I cheated this time. I watched the debate and vote on SCOS OJ's resolution and then basically addressed what I felt were the only *real* negative complaints and created a new resolution.

With that in mind, gee, you can learn a lot by watching the debates on and off-site. See what the *calm* people say when they vote no and change that. Failed resolutions are perhaps the best kept secret in NationStates -- people just throw them away! A mistake.

Creating a new idea is hard. Crafting and turning an existing idea into a workable document ... easier than you think.

1. State problem.
2. Show international standing.
3. Cite Proof of Trial Solution that Works.
4. Recognize & Complement Trial Solution. <-- this is the clap your hands part, it builds coalitions and brings on support (important)
5. Nudge International Community in that Direction.

Michael

I know what you're saying, and I appreciate all of your advice. It does take a pretty good effort to break through some of the "coalitions" out there that really control what goes into UN queue. I have to really lobby.

But I also have to alter some things on my proposal and such. I like your idea of making a proposal that would propose (sorry for the redundancy, i'm writing at like 1 AM here) making a commission to investigate the matter. That definitely sounds much more reasonable.

But the more I think about it, the more I feel that no matter what, those left-leaning people out there who almost control UN happenings won't even bother to look at anything that has to do with internat'l security, moral decency, etc.

But of course they whole heartedly support a fricking resolution on AIDS needles.

I mean, what about protecting Earth from cataclysmic Extinction-Level Events???

I know it's all about a different set of values. I can't change that. BUt you know, I mainly want to be able to get something passed in the UN that'll stand out - not so much I want my name on it and immortalized, but something that's different from all the other things thats being passed ( and in real life, the UN is really more concerned with helping underdeveloped nations ruled by dictators and giving them massive aid even though the damn dictators just keep it themselves).

I'm beginning to feel that my efforts would just be futile. Maybe it's just too much work to get something I enjoy and support passed in this UN. But thanks for hearing me out.

Ephraim

Actually I'm the guy who wrote Tracking Near Earth Objects and the HIV/AIDS Needle Sharing Prevention resolutions.

I wrote them both for similar reasons. I believe in both. I have hard facts that support both. I could *not* find any hard facts that would counter either. They are global issues. And most importantly, they both would shift the NationStates debate in new directions.

The liberals did *not* like the NEO proposal, but they did support it once they realized it was about science and not weapons.

They'll support the HIV/AIDS proposal, but not in the numbers that they are flocking to the Illegal Logging resolution. No way nearly as many.

Next week when my AIDS proposal hits the floor, the mods are gonna hate me. Last time I only had about 1 obscene telegram per day ... this time I'm guessing there will be easily 3 per day. :(

Gigatron was getting nasty threats. Xtraordinary Gentlemen was. And Hersfold got some back in the day. (Others probably have as well ...)

You may be able to still make a proposal that stands out ... just give it time. Also, it Hersfold cared so much about his United Nations Education Committee proposal that he submitted it several times ... and later came back with a second one, but life pulled him away before we could deal with that resolution.

Anyways, there are conservatives out there as well, and they'll endorse International Security and Moral Dec. props. I even know of a proposal in the works (topic only) to allow Capital Punishment. I don't like the idea ... but there are conservatives around as well.
Just keep trying!

A sensible proposal! And this coming from one of Mikitivity's "liberals". I supported SDI, NEO, and would support Needle Sharing Prevention if and when it comes to resolution.

I mainly go for well thought out proposals, that also follow my own political beliefs. While I'm not so sure about putting giant cannon in space (a broken up asteroid would do as much, if not more, damage than a single one)* I think that you are on the right track.

*This information is based upon reading in A Short History of Almost Everything by Bill Bryson, an excellent read.

Oops. Sorry man, I didn't want to insult you or anything. I didn't know you wrote the HIV/AIDS proposal too. Wow you get a lot of stuff through to these left-wing crazed players. I wish I could be as persuasive as you.

But then again I'm stuck in my crazed world of Robotech, B5, SG-1 and such.

OOC: I wasn't offended at all ... though I hope you'll reconsider your opinion on the Needle Sharing Prevention resolution. I assure you that I have *links* to references that will probably stagger the mind (if not blow up this server -- well OK, not that many). :)

As for getting stuff through left-wingers ... look at my country profile, it *is* a left-winger state. Of course, most liberal nations will also tend vote conservatively on many issues. Think about JMS (the writer / creator) for Babylon 5 ... his political views are actually what I'd say most of what I call the liberal coalition tend to fall in line with. Enn is a perfect example: liberals aren't anti-science. Not in the least bit. Some of the most liberal minds on the planet are mathematicians and physists. (They also include in their ranks some of the most conservative.)

It was a few months ago that somebody (was it you Hirotia?) posted the link to a dual axis political description. Twas cool, and divided us up more than just on a right-left sort of basis.

And yes, I'm watching the Robotech: Macross remastered series, reading the Wildstorm Robotech comics as they hit the stands, and I just finished B5 Season 4 on DVD two weeks ago. I'll start my Season 5 after I finish Macross.

Of course, I'm so looking forward to the TV show Millennium coming out on DVD next week. *woot*

I would *not* recommend the show to anybody but suspense fans. If you like old Hitchcock films, good, good series. If you an action fan, you may not like it as much. (Interestingly I was a fan back in the day of the first few X-Files seasons, but around Season 3 the show really began to no longer entertain me.)

As for SciFi: if you've never watched "The Day the Earth Stood Still" go buy the DVD or rent it. It is a classic and won the Golden Globe in 1951 for "Best Film Promoting International Understanding".

It is from 1951 obviously, but I think anybody who is a regular UN player in NationStates will find it interesting.

I won't spoil the film, except to say that three of the four cities in Mikitivity are named: Klatuu, Barada, Nitko. (George Lucas tipped his hat towards the film in 1983 with Return of the Jedi ... three of Jabbas goons are named the same. You'll also find that from time to time in other Scifi literature *and* in Nation States that these three names keep popping up. And naturally these words pop into industrial music lyrics from time to time as well -- more rare, but I may in fact be preaching to the choir.)

Hmm, I've heard of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" but never saw it. I think I will. And I'm actually a big fan of Hitchcock's but some of them I just can't take like "Psycho" I don't know why it's considered his masterpiece - it does have some amazing suspense but the plot was just really disheartening to the individual human soul, lol. On the other hand I loved "Rear Window," "The Man Who Knew Too Much," and "North by Northwest." I liked those kinds a lot of better, but I don't know.

I'm glad to hear you like a lot of the series that I like too. I actually never went past Season 5 of B5 and "Sleeping in Light" --that just clinched it, I didn't want to see Crusade or anything, I thought it was over and it should be over since everyone's gone.

Oh and by the way, I totally don't believe in just a one-plane political classification system. You can't just be called 'left' or 'right' sometimes because there are different aspects. For example, Stalin was a committed communist and was all the way on the left economically - an economic authoritarian. But he was all the way on the right on the political freedom and civil rights scales - authoritarian on both, unlike many socialists today who also want more civil rights. So I think it's even a three dimensional way of classifying a person as left, right, centrist.

This link provides the basis of NationStates classifications and many real-world beliefs too. Maybe you've seen it already.

http://alces.sel.uaf.edu/gregg/ns/nsmap.html

This link provides the basis of NationStates classifications and many real-world beliefs too. Maybe you've seen it already.

http://alces.sel.uaf.edu/gregg/ns/nsmap.html

That was not the link I was thinking of, but damn if that isn't *better*!

FYI: I've book marked this and will encourage others to look at the page. It is extremely well done and I feel communicates the idea in a very easy to understand way! :)