NationStates Jolt Archive

It seems to me that most people are relatively leftist in the UN.... so I wanted to check out my theory...

Only vote if you are in the UN please.

It seems to me that most people are relatively leftist in the UN.... so I wanted to check out my theory....

Though I would consider my "government" to be only moderate left-wing, I think the fact that my government is prepared to back its committment to civil and political freedoms using economic sanctions (which hurts its own economy as well) -- that such an uncompromising committement to these ideals probably means many of your nations might consider my nation to be something of a "Civil Rights Fest" or at times total and complete "Anarchy".

The truth is, my government seeks to allow private citizens the freedoms to make many of their own choices. And naturally since the UN is a collection of sovereign nations, only when there is a clear international danger or potential for conflict does my nation feel that the UN should intervene -- this again is a true left-wing position, however my government considers abuse of the UN to be nothing more than political aggression, and its response to this sort of disrespect likely is considered more extreme by many nations.

But I challenge nations to think of the following ... if you believe in giving your citizens the Freedom of Choice in most of your daily issues, why should you not extend this same behavior to other nations when it comes to domestic issues?

10kMichael

I think I am a moderate liberal.

I have no word as to what that would make me in this context.

* ... :wink:

- T.R. Kom
Le Représentant de Komokom.
Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=komokom)
<- Not A Moderator, Just A Know It All.
" Clowns To The Left of Me ... Jokers To The Right, Here I am ... "

I consider myself a Socialist usually. Although sometimes for fun I go to being a social libretarian.

I consider my self fairly centerist, but that's partially because I can never remember which wing is which.

Bob Flibble
UN Rep. Rogue Nation of Flibbleites
Regional Delegate of Final Fantasy

extreme left.

Depends on the issues. I have to agree the esteemed representative from Mikitivity -- the UN is not the BIg Brother of nations. Let us keep national issues national, the personal issues personal, and the international issues international. Daryn joined the UN because we couldn't allow ourselves to stick our heads in the sand and pretend the rest of the world beyond our region didn't exist.

I don't know where that puts me on the poticial spectrum. Honestly, I liek to think I don't fit nicely into a left-wing or right-wing box. Will centerist do?

Minister Mar Darenka
Ambassador to the UN
The Most Serene Republic of Daryn

It depends on the issues. I like to look at what will be good and bad for my country not what is right and left.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588) ~ What can the UN do and what can it do for me?
(http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

I would consider myself center-left, except on defence issues where I agree primarily with those on the right.

It depends on the issues. I like to look at what will be good and bad for my country not what is right and left.


Well the thing that makes you decide what you think would be good for your country or not would probably be based on where you stand on the political spectrum....

For example, generally speaking, left wing people would think it'd be better for a country to raise taxes and spend the money on a gun registry program, whereas a right wing view would think it'd be better for a country to lower taxes and remove said gun registry program...

I personally am extreme right on almost all issues. Of course there are a few minor issues I might lean in towards moderate for, but in general I'm extremist right. There's one exception to this, that being the environment. I'm somewhere betweeen moderate and extremist left on environmental issues....

Which can really suck if faced with a choice between economy/military against environment.

Liberalism is the root of all evils,
Go Far Rightists!

Me and my government are centrists but we commit ourselves to securing maximum political and civil freedoms

Liberalism is the root of all evils,
Go Far Rightists!

No.
Ignorance is the root of all evil.


A worthy quote:

Fear leads to anger,
Anger leads to hatred,
Hatred leads to suffering.

The problem of course is that most people (and nations) already live in fear if not worse. Using political beliefs as a scapegoat for evil is a perfect example of fear, if not irrational hatred.

10kMichael

For example, generally speaking, left wing people would think it'd be better for a country to raise taxes and spend the money on a gun registry program, whereas a right wing view would think it'd be better for a country to lower taxes and remove said gun registry program...

gun control does not make one left - right wing dictators implement it all the time and revolutionary leftists tend to want easier access to guns.

Well my government is an 'Innofensive Centrist Democracy' so I'm going to say a centrist, however that's not really true. I am far right, as it were, on many issues and far left on other issues...

Our government is a corporate bordello which we are still trying to figure out(we do not trust corporations just look at Enron). It must have been some U.N. resolution that passed and gave us a flat income tax rate. We are moderate right ever so slightly. yay on death penalty yay to abortion rights, education spending, and gay marriage but we do also believe in having a good defence budget as well.

You can go to issues2000.org to find out.

I haven't voted yet.

I'm not a moderate left, in that I strongly dislike private business, but I'm not extreme left, in that I don't think that we should all be in communes, share and share alike.

Ummm... You're forgetting a whole range of political ideologies... The spectrum doesn't just run from right to left... You've gotta make room for libertarians, populists, greens, theocrats, etc... There's so much more to it than just left or right.

try http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Much better than the left/right spectrum -

incidentally I am

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03

which puts me close to Ghandi, Mandela and the Dalai Lama

try http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Much better than the left/right spectrum -

incidentally I am

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03

which puts me close to Ghandi, Mandela and the Dalai Lama

First, that is an excellent find. I encourage others to take the test.

I ended up scoring as:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.23

Which makes sense, as I typically mistrust *everyone*, though the test did not have a question about grass roots movements nor small family run businesses, both of which I consider myself very supportative. (I guess these perferences can be determined as high negative scores on the corporate tests.)

Which probably should tell people that the site goes about measuring you on 2 different axes: one is left vs. right (negative scores meaning left) and the other is libertarian vs. authoritarian (negative scores meaning libertarian).

What would be interesting is for real-world *living* politicians to take this or a similar test so we could gauge where they fall in comparison.

10kMichael

Which makes sense, as I typically mistrust *everyone*


OOC:
Though it be lame, I figured that this point in my own post requires further explaining ...

I mistrust mobs and large groups of people, no matter who those people are.

But my trust of the human individual is great. A person who doesn't hear the clutter of others, I like to think will tend to treat others with the same respect that they themselves would like to receive.

Michael

Extreme left. extreme right and then centrist to moderate right, moderate left and back to centrist

^_^;; thats ME

I'm down as:
Economic: -7.98
Social: -5.59

Around Mandela, Dalai Lama and Gandhi. Good company.

I hit a :

Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.54

Me and The Lama are going to go share a coffee, lol :wink:

- T.R. Kom
Le Représentant de Komokom.
Ministre Régional de Substance.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=komokom)
<- Not A Moderator, Just A Know It All.
" Clowns To The Left of Me ... Jokers To The Right, Here I am ... "
" Don't you have a life ? " ( pause ) " Silly question I suppose ... "

it's interesting how all of the more regular posters who have taken the poll have universally been left wing libertarian

Economic LEFT: -8.38
Social LIBERTARIAN: -9.08

I've taken this before and I think I was even more extreme. Guess I'm mellowing...

Oh, oh, oh. There are many left-wingers over here. :twisted: :wink:

"Economic Left/Right: 3.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.10"

I´m centre-right with liberal tendency, especially economic liberal.
So I´m actually close to Blair or Berlusconi, however a bit more liberal than the two.
While I´m personally not liking Berlusconi I admitt that I like Blair and his policies (as far as I know them - I´m not British).

Sincerely yours

Marc Smith, president of the repbublik of Kybernetia, regional delegate and founder of the region Futura

It's difficult to compare political positions, when you're in different political systems. A left-wing position in e.g. the USA has a different meaning than a left-wing position in e.g. the Netherlands. Dutch right-wing parties would be considered VERY liberal in the USA, American right-wing parties are inconceivable in the Netherlands....

So when I'm stating that I'm a Dutch left-wing liberal, can you understand what my political views are?

Better indeed to have everybody take some poll (like the compass in the post above) and compare the results.

Just my two cents...

@Redwyn

So you are a supporter of the D 66 and not the right-liberal VVD?

Well: I would consider myself centre-right with liberal (economic liberal tendencies). In the german political system I see myself between the conservative CDU and the economic-liberal FDP.

Sincerely yours

Marc Smith, president of Kybernetia

@Redwyn

"So when I'm stating that I'm a Dutch left-wing liberal, can you understand what my political views are?"
Well: I think that means: yes to the legalisation of drugs, yes to euthanasia and very likely yes to gay marriage.
That are all things I disagree with.
The german greens are actually agreeing to them (except the euthanasia)

@Kybernetia

Indeed I would favour D'66 (left-wing liberal party founded in 1966, D stands for democrats). Indeed I am a proponent of euthanasia and gay marriage, as I strongly believe in equal rights for everyone, and freedom, for every individual, to live and die the way they want. About drugs: I'm not so much interested in legalisation as in de-criminalization. I feel forceful repression of drug use has more disadvantages than advantages. So far so good about knowing my political views.
But then I think you prove my point, when you make your comparison with the German Greens. My views on enomic policy, social welfare, globalization of economy, anti-trust legislation etc. are liberal. Left-sided liberal, but liberal nonetheless. Are the Greens liberal in nature? I would rather view them as socialist... Of course there are items that overlap the different parties, but there are as many, or more, items that separate them

@Redwyn

"Left-sided liberal, but liberal nonetheless. Are the Greens liberal in nature?" - no, I wouldn´t think so.

"I would rather view them as socialist... Of course there are items that overlap the different parties, but there are as many, or more, items that separate them"
They Greens were a movement which was founded in 1980 by different groups: From the K-Groups (communists, socialsits) to environment movements. It was a mixture of many things. There were in the begining also a little conservative element in it (preservation of the creation) but soon the left took over. The conservatives environmentalists are now in the ÖDP (a party which hardly gets 0,5% and is only in a view local city parlaments).
Todays Greens have been able to attract some left-liberal voters. Their economic views are today more to liberal than the ones of the Social democrats. However: especially in the area of environment they push for high subsidies and regulations and higher taxes for energy. There are some politicians within the party who can be - in my view - really called left-liberals because they really stand for a liberal economy. But that are not the dominating figures. They are rather a minority.
In the german political system you would very likely be parth of the so-called New middle: that of course means: all parties want you: conservatives, social democrats, liberals, greens.
Regarding your views: you would very likely stand between the Greens and the FDP, but probably more close to the FDP.

Economic LEFT: -8.38
Social LIBERTARIAN: -9.08

I've taken this before and I think I was even more extreme. Guess I'm mellowing...

heh, sellout.

and one day i am really going to find out if it is just sample error that leads to the majority of people i see taking this test being in the libertarian left, or if most people really are there and don't quite realize it. i've seen enough right -wingers wind up in the proper spot for me to assume that the test itself isn't at fault. but there must be some explanation for the wealth of libertarian left individuals and the utter lack of libertarian left politicians.

it's interesting how all of the more regular posters who have taken the poll have universally been left wing libertarian

It is, but its not surprising.

First, it fits with the original author's hypothesis. Second, this doesn't mean our opposite numbers aren't in NationStates. They just aren't as likely to join a global organization like the United Nations.

I suspect there are some first quadrant types floating around the international incidents forum.

10kMichael

It's difficult to compare political positions, when you're in different political systems. A left-wing position in e.g. the USA has a different meaning than a left-wing position in e.g. the Netherlands. Dutch right-wing parties would be considered VERY liberal in the USA, American right-wing parties are inconceivable in the Netherlands....

So when I'm stating that I'm a Dutch left-wing liberal, can you understand what my political views are?

Better indeed to have everybody take some poll (like the compass in the post above) and compare the results.

Just my two cents...

OOC:
Your generalization isn't fair, but your point is valid.

A right-wing Dutch is still going to be a hell of a lot more to the right than even a centrist American who lives in Northern California, Oregon, coastal Washington state, or British Columbia (Canadian of course, but the same liberal streak runs up and down the Pacific Ocean). And then there is Hawaii, which is liberal, but in a totally different way! In fact, there are issues where a West Coast American or Canadian is going to be even more liberal than even a Dutch left-winger. Issues ... not all the time. Case in point: the US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals recently challenged the US govt's Pledge cause is says, "One Nation Under God". (NOTE: The case was overturned by the US Supreme Court, but the Supreme Court is packed full of Americans from east of the Rockies.)

I promise you that in the next 50-years you will continue to see a growing divide between the two sides of the United States and the 9th Circuit Court is going to grow in its case load as more Western Americans discover that the court is populist based. I can even see this trend growing beyond the voting public and actually being embraced by the American Entertainment industry.
All that said, there is a reason why primaries in mid-west states are important: they represent a sort of balance of ideas between US political extremes like California vs. Texas.

10kMichael

The UN here is generally more "left" or "liberal", because these nations tend to be those more interested in civil or human rights.

Those that care more about the nation caring for itself by making money, tend to be "right" or "conservative" and thus have less need or want to join the UN.

As a result the UN is more left than right. Thus the UN is not "left wing" by nature, it is left wing because those are the types of nations that wish to join.

Economic LEFT: -8.38
Social LIBERTARIAN: -9.08

I've taken this before and I think I was even more extreme. Guess I'm mellowing...

heh, sellout.

and one day i am really going to find out if it is just sample error that leads to the majority of people i see taking this test being in the libertarian left, or if most people really are there and don't quite realize it. i've seen enough right -wingers wind up in the proper spot for me to assume that the test itself isn't at fault. but there must be some explanation for the wealth of libertarian left individuals and the utter lack of libertarian left politicians.

I think I'm too cynical about human nature to go all the way on the libertarian scale. It amuses me that I'm the most skewed in terms of left/liberal to have shown their results (so far). I wasn't aware that I was such an 'extremist'. About the test itself, it's actually quite simplistic and does throw up some odd results. However, it can't be a million miles away.

Re the UN's 'left-bias' - the problem is that the right has never really got its arse in gear and successfully pushed their agenda. If they had, I suspect we'd have seen a decrease in the left's UN membership and some very different resolutions.