NationStates Jolt Archive

I believe it is. Maybe when it was created it was intended to be a serious organization devoted to making the world a "better place" but now it has clearly deteriorated into a circus which is maintained only by region crashers.

Seriously people, let me see some hands, who here actually joined the U.N. for the resolutions and not the region-crashing/defending abilities?

Anyone?

Not to mention that the resolutions that are put up for vote are clearly a joke in themselves to the point that it makes it impossible to take the U.N. seriously anymore. Really it's only a matter of time before the resolutions force all of NationStates into conforming to 1 single way of running a nation.

I personally, am thinking of resigning, and just putting my membership on one of my puppet nations.

Since the rise of civilization (November 13, 2002), the members of the United Nations have been working tirelessly to improve the standard of the world. That, or trying to force other nations to be more like them. But that's just semantics.


Always was, always is. I like it this way.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

Yeah for regional crashers!!! I have no complains with them ruling the UN.

Crazy Goats

It seems that the UN is getting more than it's fair share of lunacy lately.
One could argue that the Real UN has it's fair share of lunacy.
Isn't that what politics and diplomacy is about?
I won't resign from the UN. Can't try to help fix it from the outside.

Yeah for regional crashers!!! I have no complains with them ruling the UN.

Crazy Goats

but I do have complaints with region-crashers period, especially ruling the UN. I'm a defender, I'm in E-Army(Equilism Army).

Yeah for defenders!!!

I have no complains with defenders ruling the UN. AND THE WORLD! :P j/k

The UN is only a joke because of the quality of nations within it.

The UN is only a joke because of the quality of nations within it.

Namely, the conservatives who tried to overturn the 40 hour work week.

The UN is only a joke because of the quality of nations within it.

Exactly. If you feel the UN is a joke, you should do what I did: step out. Once the UN looses too many members, it's influence on individual nations will deminish.

Good luck

This mock U.N. is a sad sad joke, and has grossly overstepped it's bounds, actually becoming a world government. After reading a mod's comments that the 40 hour work week resolution does not violate freedom of choice because extra work causes stress, I stared blankly at the screen, thinking to myself, "oh hell no!", and then quickly resigned from this hollow, corrupted, and debunked community, realizing that the cause of personal freedom is a cause long hanged upon the gallows of the United Nation's killing fields.

The one good thing about this mock U.N. though is that it is a wonderful case study into blue-blooded liberals true colors. World Government is something they crave, they yearn for... and the more control they gain over other people the better. It's really quite frightening.

This mock U.N. is a sad sad joke, and has grossly overstepped it's bounds, actually becoming a world government. After reading a mod's comments that the 40 hour work week resolution does not violate freedom of choice because extra work causes stress, I stared blankly at the screen, thinking to myself, "oh hell no!", and then quickly resigned from this hollow, corrupted, and debunked community, realizing that the cause of personal freedom is a cause long hanged upon the gallows of the United Nation's killing fields.

The one good thing about this mock U.N. though is that it is a wonderful case study into blue-blooded liberals true colors. World Government is something they crave, they yearn for... and the more control they gain over other people the better. It's really quite frightening.

:)

Very well said.
It is freedom of choice to work more or less than 40 hours a week. Should not be mandatory. If you want to work 50 hours a week and your boss says "Sure, go to it, I'll pay you", then who has the right to tell you that you can't? The single mother who is trying to support her kids isn't going to appreciate it much. The single mother is going to be ALOT more stressed out that she doesn't have enough money to get by than by working some extra hours to feed her kids.

Sure, you shouldn't be forced to work hours, but then Mr. Boss can find someone who will work those hours. Then you find another job. That's the business world for you.

I use the UN to push through evil resolutions, under the guise of benign ones, that ultimately lead to the destruction of my enemy's econmy but the stablization of mine.

I would have to concur.

The quality and deliberation given to most of the resolutions passed through is an indication of the intelligence, capability and succesfullness of the general membership of the U.N..... which of course is summed up in the single word... ZILCH For myself, at least for the present, Tekania is remaining a UN member, so hopefully we can use our expertise in lawmaking, to create some "damage-control" type addendums that rely on the lack-of-foresite Resolutions vagueness to pass abit more rights back to the people/nations...

Some of them have been blantantly ignorant of case law, or practicable control....

From 40hr. Work Week


2. No one may be contractually obligated to work more than 40 hours per week


Huh? Since when did the government have a right to dictate what people can be put into a contract?
Signing of the contract is non-obligatory.... so by definition, untill signing, they are not obligated to, but
once signed they are. I'm sorry, Tekania does not do anything with this since it's a blatant violation of people's civil rights.

From Legalize Prostitution...

As you are aware, there are citizens who get by in desperate times by selling their bodies in order to pay their bills and feed their children. Both men and women partake in this profession. If we legalized prostitution, people would be able to sell themselves to get by. In return, the government could use the money collected from taxes on prostitution income to support programs that help the poor. Prostitution is the oldest profession. Why must we make it a priority for law enforcement to monitor and arrest prostitutes when there are greater crimes out there?


Umm, this isn't even a resolution, it's a question...

We do this because our people think it's ethically wrong....ok, answered your question... now let's pass more laws against it.

The same goes with "Legalize Euthanasia" it's also a question, not a resolution do do anything in particular

From "Free Education"


To give every person under the age of 18 the right to a free education


Except, once again, immpossible, there's no such thing as free education. If you believe so, tell me how you manage to educate people without charging them, I.E. without enrollment frees, TAX funding or contributions?


We also resolve that gay marriages be protected and endorsed by law in the member nations.


Um, no. I won't. The Republic of Tekania has no marriage laws anyway, that is what the Common Law is for.


I'm sorry, but all this liberalistic approach to law that the UN drifts more and more to, is slowly and steadily turning it into an organization that is about as usefull and functional as a left-handed Nerf football bat.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/tekania.jpg

"Qui Desiderant Pacem Preparate Bellum"
("Those who desire peace, prepare for war.")

Some of them have been blantantly ignorant of case law, or practicable control....

From 40hr. Work Week


2. No one may be contractually obligated to work more than 40 hours per week


Huh? Since when did the government have a right to dictate what people can be put into a contract?
Signing of the contract is non-obligatory.... so by definition, untill signing, they are not obligated to, but
once signed they are. I'm sorry, Tekania does not do anything with this since it's a blatant violation of people's civil rights.

There are always rules about what can and cannot be made part of a contract. Or are you under the impression that people can legitimately sign a contract selling themselves into hereditary slavery?

Not hereditary slavery, but it would be within reason for their own life-span.... signing a contract is not obligatory, but under Common Law contract is only enforceable on the signing parties. Under Common Law, the government has no position but to mediate disputes between signing parties, Common Law has existed long before government, it protects the rights to people and their institutions that have existed since before government has. Common Law is reiterated and codified into the constitution of the Republic of Tekania. If we were to reinterate the U.N. resolutions position of "40hr Work Week" into law, said law would be overturned by the judiciary as unconstitutional, so therefore, it isn't enforceable.

The government of the Republic of Tekania passes laws within the realm and scope of the power granted us (the government), by the people of Tekania. To reinterate many of the U.N.'s laws in our own law, would be a blatant violation of both our (The government of the Republic of Tekania's) position and power. Unlike most of the United Nation's member states, the Republic of Tekania recognizes the people (as a whole ) as the sovereign, and the government as a servant to the people. Which is simply why we have laws on the books that are contrary to U.N. Resolutions, or in some cases no laws where the U.N. says we should.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/tekania.jpg

"Qui Desiderant Pacem Preparate Bellum"
("Those who desire peace, prepare for war.")

I know that this post goes against the flow of the debate right now in this topic but...

I'd have to vote Yes. Many of these UN resolutions are ones that are really meant to be issues for your own nation to decide on its own.

I mean on the Abortion topic- What if there's conservative nations who disapprove of abortion (not me because I'm pro-choice but that's not the point)? It's really meant to be something each nation can decide.

What about the one before that? "Public Domain"- that one should also be an issue- that way there could be other choices. For example, instead of implementing it fully, there could be ways to "half" implement it.

I'm still going to stay in the UN though. NS is a place for nations to simulate a real world government. It's not like we can actually create another NS faction that acts like the UN but doesn't go by its rules.

Once again, look in real life how our over driven economy has caused a "de-evolution" of societies behaiviors. It is all noticable in the everyday happenings of life. For instance: how many are curtious when driving? (for you teachers out there)How many children exibit excellent behaivior and respect for anything? How many selfless people do you see doing selfless things a day? Be observant and you will know why the 40hr work week is a great idea. That coffee company from Washington is a prime example of this working in our economy already. Fortune 500 anyone?

Very good points :)

Let me put it this way: In Tueber our laws (sparse as they may be ;)) come from the PEOPLE. They never will, or can come from the will of the United (Communo-Collectivist) Nations or the "International Community". Our country will fight until the capture of our last speck of land is stolen from us before we allow that to happen.

Not hereditary slavery, but it would be within reason for their own life-span.... signing a contract is not obligatory, but under Common Law contract is only enforceable on the signing parties. Under Common Law, the government has no position but to mediate disputes between signing parties, Common Law has existed long before government, it protects the rights to people and their institutions that have existed since before government has. Common Law is reiterated and codified into the constitution of the Republic of Tekania. If we were to reinterate the U.N. resolutions position of "40hr Work Week" into law, said law would be overturned by the judiciary as unconstitutional, so therefore, it isn't enforceable.

Common law is just the moral intuitions of dead guys . It is inherently mutable - it will change as jurists' moral intuitions change. And by entering into the UN your nation has subjected itself to the whims of people with vastly different intuitions and nations with radically different precedents.

Besides, common law already contains the notion that some contracts are void. So just like a contract to rob a bank is void, so is a contract obligating someone to work more than 40 hours a week.

Once again, look in real life how our over driven economy has caused a "de-evolution" of societies behaiviors. It is all noticable in the everyday happenings of life. For instance: how many are curtious when driving? (for you teachers out there)How many children exibit excellent behaivior and respect for anything? How many selfless people do you see doing selfless things a day? Be observant and you will know why the 40hr work week is a great idea. That coffee company from Washington is a prime example of this working in our economy already. Fortune 500 anyone?

Good idea in some places, but the United Nations does not have the right to dictate our form of government which is in the form of a democratic Republic (sic. a Commonwealth) and passing laws in the U.N. that supposedly mandates us go contrary to our constitution, is simply, and blantantly against the U.N.'s own rules. Now suppose there was a U.N. resolution that prayer was banned from member nation's public school systems... Now let's suppose a nation had a clause that prohibited it from passing ANY law prohibiting the people's free exercize... said nation's legislature can pass the law, fine, but it would get overturned by the judiciary. What the U.N. (as a majority ) wants is a whole bunch of socialist dictatorships.... And I hate to tell them, but it's not going to happen.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/tekania.jpg

"Qui Desiderant Pacem Preparate Bellum"
("Those who desire peace, prepare for war.")

Bah, the UN is only good for purposes of regional politics.

The major problem that the UN has had recently is the inability of member nations to come up with an intelligently done resolution. The current resolution and the most recent are a combined 10 lines at the most. They have hardly any substance to them, and they barely outline, not define, outline the point of their resolution. This is why I stepped out of the UN. I am going to agree that if enough nations were to step out of the UN in a form of protest to the incompetence of the "ruling" body, we might be able to actually pass some resolutions that will help the global community.

I did join the UN for the issues originally. It still is interesting to see what resolutions people put up.

The United States of America the American, Mighty Capitalist Superpower™ joined the UN for the issues.

The UN has for a long while been run by meddling communist liberals who want to make every member nation in the UN identical, erase national sovereignty in the name of a false, homogenous "pluralism," make the game infinitely more boring, ruin the economies of UN member nations, and regulate every UN member nation within an inch of their lives.

There are structural, game mechanics reasons for this and cultural reasons for this.

The only way to turn this around is t fight the trend of reasonable and conservative UN nations leaving the UN to be run by communist, environmentalist, feminazi, liberal wakos. If all good nations leave the UN, it will be run by these evil nations that have been forcing our people not to work as much as they want, and are now trying to force our nations to legalize abortion.

The UN right now is worse than a joke, it is an atrocity.

It is up us to turn this around.

Cordially,
Richard Held
Secretary of Homeland Counter-Insurgency
The United States of America the American
Mighty Capitalist Superpower™

Like I said, I'll merely meander my way through their vague undefined resolution, I'll make abortion legal, but only where they are not currently, nor have been within our armed forces, as they are then "soldiers" not men and women......... Oh, did I fail to mention military service was compulsory? opps... :twisted:

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/tekania.jpg

"Qui Desiderant Pacem Preparate Bellum"
("Those who desire peace, prepare for war.")

The UN is an idealist organization in a realist world. As such, they will always submit to real issues such as money and power when push comes to shove. If they do not, then they will have no authority. Either case the power does not reside with them, it resides with the people and nations that give it the power.

Recently they have deviated from reality (not backing the US in Iraq, of which the US provides both a large chunk of the monitary and military force backing UN resolutions). This has caused them to lose face politically, thus making them worth much less in both the eyes of both the coalition forces and those opposing the war in Iraq.

I've helped a friend write a 20 page discertation on this very topic, and let's just say that Machiavellianism wins out time and time again. :twisted:

Edit: Sorry, thought you were refering to the real UN. My bad. I really don't care what the NS UN does...

Yupp there a joke. Cuz I mean now if you don't like some thing you can just leave so members don't take anything searsly ( spelled wrong ). And becuse of that they don't really vote that well. I mean I have been a member for about 6 months and so far only 1 proposile did not pass. Is that weird?? I mean there not all that good

Yupp there a joke. Cuz I mean now if you don't like some thing you can just leave so members don't take anything searsly ( spelled wrong ). And becuse of that they don't really vote that well. I mean I have been a member for about 6 months and so far only 1 proposile did not pass. Is that weird?? I mean there not all that good

The reason for this is the voting system. 60% controls 40%, so the minority (conservatives and fence sitters) are discriminated against. Only leftist resolutions pass.

The UN is a democracy.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

The UN is a democracy.



That discriminates against a minority. And forces it's laws on nations. *cough* Glorified dictatorship *cough*.

Let the weaklings have the UN. They don't even what it's there for.

Is it 'to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest.'?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Alarmist New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

Yes, the UN is a joke. I stepped out after that ridiculous 40-hour workweek was passed. Heck, I worked almost 40 hours this week, Memorial Day and all, and I'm just a kid with a summer job.

Monday: 0 hours
Tuesday: 8.5 hours
Wednesday: 9.5 hours
Thursday: 9 hours
Friday: 7.5 hours

That comes out to 34.5 hours in a 4-day week. If it had been any other week, I would've been over. And yet, somehow I still had plenty of free time after I got home from work. Lazy idiots who spend all day watching the clock at work, never really "working" anyway, and demanding that the government hand them everything on a silver platter are really just parasites to society. If you want something, I say work for it and work hard. These days, people think can just get the government to give them whatever they want if they just whine loud enough. Then it becomes the responsibility of the productive half of society to support the whiners and complainers through taxes.

Anyway, back to imaginary life. I stepped out of the UN because I was tired of being told how I was to run my country by a bunch of whiners. Look at the numbers on the 40-hour workweek: it passed by a margin of only about 100 or so, iirc. Is it even fair that 51% of the UN nations who like to whine and have some aversion to work have the right to impose on the 49% who believe in merit and freedom? I propose that every resolution should require a 2/3 majority to pass. That way it would be fair. And unless that happens, I have no intentions of rejoining any international body here in NationStates. No offense.

In real life, if it weren't for the UN, Saddam would still be in power.
In Nationstates, it is a joke. The whole point of Nationstates is to see what happens when an evil dictator comes into power. The UN in Nationstateswants to make everything "better for the people." Well, if it's just a game, and no real people, who cares? It's more fun to be a dictator anyway. The only reason I'm trying to join the UN is to Reigon-crash.

(( I'm going to make this post as myself rather than my nation. Out of character, if you'd like. I also know that my views echo those of a number of players and ex-players in my region, and I'd like to say to you what they've been saying to me, so all flaming to be directed to me personally by telegram, please.

The United Nations portion of this game at the minute is in an appalling state. People have, for a long time, been voting and making proposals based on the points their country will receive from the system for a successfully passed resolution, thus completely ignoring the very thing that the resolutions are supposed to do. The Description is unimportant for what is evidently a majority of countries, and the system in place only aggravates that. I personally wouldn't mind it so much if a resolution that was submitted was wholeheartedly backed or vigorously denounced because of radical thinking and the desire to change things; at least then we'd get a decent discussion out of it. However, people go in, see that the resolution is a strong human rights one and Ping! You have another nation to the tally.

As a result of this, the system is being pulled down by those who aren't even playing the game. Because come on; what is Nationstates if not a politically-minded roleplaying community? To be perfectly honest, there's no point even discussing this here, since those who really need to see it are the ones who aren't going to touch these forums with a forty-foot barge pole. The only way to get the point across is where they'll see it.

So that's what I tried. An attempt to reach out to those players of the nations of the world that see little beyond the resolution page in one of those resolutions to let them know that they needed to use the UN setup in the way in which it was intended and designed. It was even begininng to attract support. And guess what; I was told I was violating the game mechanics rule. I didn't want anything other than peoples' attitudes to change, but I guess even that was too much to let through.

Maybe the players aren't the only ones who can't see the issue. But as it stands, NationStates are driving away their target audience by allowing the point-grabbing Min/maxers to control the honest efforts of the debating community. And if that keeps up, the UN won't be the only thing I'll be leaving.

My suggestion? Change the UN application criteria. Make sure that a user has posted once in the forums, anywhere at all, before they can join. Don't let the passive destroy the active.

</whining> ))

The Nation of Kamsaki, though somewhat disappointed with the rulings of the United Nations in recent times, still wishes to remain with the organisation with the intent of reviving its initial purpose in the world today.

Like I said, I'll merely meander my way through their vague undefined resolution, I'll make abortion legal, but only where they are not currently, nor have been within our armed forces, as they are then "soldiers" not men and women......... Oh, did I fail to mention military service was compulsory? opps... :twisted:

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/tekania.jpg

"Qui Desiderant Pacem Preparate Bellum"
("Those who desire peace, prepare for war.")
I hadn't thought of that one but nice loophole. If this resolution passes, which seems likely it is going to come in conflict with clan law that states that no one may be deprived of life, limb, freedom or property without a trial.

Unless someone can argue that the baby is deserving of death because it is committing high crimes the point is moot. Their lives are protected by code and family line.

Actually I have never seen a UN resolution yet that would survive a challenge from a first year law student. They are so full of holes that you could use them as fishing nets. For that, if for no other reason, the UN is a joke.

I wish that they would consider that the UN is suppose to be a body that helps resolve disputes between nations and not a world government.

the Un is a bad joke, that´s why we are never going to join it. We recommend all conservative nations leaving the UN and opening a conservative international organisation.

Sincerely yours

King Friedrich of Preuszen

I wish that they would consider that the UN is suppose to be a body that helps resolve disputes between nations and not a world government.
But it isn't.

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The 'Drinking Man's FAQ' New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

The uN should be detsroyed :roll:

As a result of this, the system is being pulled down by those who aren't even playing the game. Because come on; what is Nationstates if not a politically-minded roleplaying community? To be perfectly honest, there's no point even discussing this here, since those who really need to see it are the ones who aren't going to touch these forums with a forty-foot barge pole. The only way to get the point across is where they'll see it. What you fail to recognize is the large community that joins the UN for purposes of Gameplay and couldn't care less about the resolutions or your RP aspect of it. UN status is necessary for invading, defending, and controlling certain regions, and if we have to join it to participate in that major aspect of the game, we don't care about the resolutions and proposals. Those resolutions are stupid; we accept it; we move on. It would take a major change in the nature of the UN to change this, which isn't going to happen.

And guess what; I was told I was violating the game mechanics rule. I didn't want anything other than peoples' attitudes to change, but I guess even that was too much to let through. Um, it's called reading the rules before writing a resolution. Game mechanics changes are against the rules and there are plenty of stickies explaining what a game mechanics change is. There are other avenues with which you can express your feelings on the nature of the UN... like this thread.

My suggestion? Change the UN application criteria. Make sure that a user has posted once in the forums, anywhere at all, before they can join. Don't let the passive destroy the active. Oh please - the vast majority of the people who join the UN hate the forums and wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. Not to mention that you can barely access them half the time, and even when you can, there's little of interest in this forum for the regional politicking aspect of the UN.

the Un is a bad joke, that´s why we are never going to join it. We recommend all conservative nations leaving the UN and opening a conservative international organisation.
Only problem is that there is none. I wish that there was. If I had my way, the UN would be one of many, UN multies would be allowed, and instead another multi-block thingie would be forced to be used for region crashing/defending.

Only problem is that there is none. I wish that there was. If I had my way, the UN would be one of many, UN multies would be allowed, and instead another multi-block thingie would be forced to be used for region crashing/defending. Seperating those two aspects of the UN wouldn't be a bad idea; but it is one that's extremely unlikely to happen.

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision

The world being the operative word here. Not individual nationstates.

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision

The world being the operative word here. Not individual nationstates.

i don't see why not. go look at the things you can do to every nation in the world by submitting a un proposal from a purely game mechanics standpoint. drugs, guns, gambling - these things have options built into the very fabric of the game that allows the un to make them all illegal in every un nation.

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision

The world being the operative word here. Not individual nationstates.


Since the rise of civilization (November 13, 2002), the members of the United Nations have been working tirelessly to improve the standard of the world. That, or trying to force other nations to be more like them

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision

The world being the operative word here. Not individual nationstates.


Since the rise of civilization (November 13, 2002), the members of the United Nations have been working tirelessly to improve the standard of the world. That, or trying to force other nations to be more like them

"Trying" being the operative word. Some of us actually work to improve the world through the UN, namely by trying to stop the nations that are "trying to force other nations to be more like them."

Cordially,
Richard Held
Secretary of Homeland Counter-Insurgency
The United States of America the American
Mighty Capitalist Superpower™

You bet your brass balls it has! I mean come on, no wars, no violence?! What is this, the freakin' hippie house?! It doesn't represent me or my country, and my people are starving yet the UN does nothing about it! I'm sick of this happy, safe, non-violent crap; down with the UN! :evil: