NationStates Jolt Archive

It would guarantee all citizens the freedom to defend themselves with reasonable means, and without the intrusion of governmental authorities.

Thank You!

And yet "reasonable" leaves much up for debate. Can you tear someone up with a machine gun loaded with 5000 rounds of ammunition just because they spat in your face? :| You've gotta try to be more specific here.

I agree, you can't take a clever and cut somebody's fingers off for giving you the bird, you have to define reasonable. "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth"
God Bless
-Newton2

Allowing the populace to carry handguns has been statistically demonstrated to make them less safe from the very incidents you seek to give them protection from.

Allowing the populace to carry handguns has been statistically demonstrated to make them less safe from the very incidents you seek to give them protection from.

Thats leftist baloney and you know it. You look at states that have concealed carry laws, and crime goes way down, and still, to this day, no person that has a concealed carry permit, has ever used a firearm in the commission of a crime.

Think of it this way, imagine if you were a criminal. Let's say you are going to rob someone.

Now, you have 2 choices here, are you going to rob the guy who has a Sig Sauer P226 in his pocket (sorry my favorite pistol) or rob the guy with nothing but a nice big fat wallet?

Hmmmm easy choice, no?

Oh, and don't argue about how easy it is or isn't to get a gun. If you're going to commit murder or theft or something anyways, I doubt you're going to care too much about whether your gun is legally registered. Hell I live in Canada which definitely has anti-gun laws and I could easily get a gun....

Thats leftist baloney and you know it. You look at states that have concealed carry laws, and crime goes way down, and still, to this day, no person that has a concealed carry permit, has ever used a firearm in the commission of a crime.

The UK, which has strict anti-gun laws, and where there is, I think, a total ban on private ownership of handguns, has a much lower rate of violent crime than does the US.

And don't give me crap about armed citizens stopping government tyranny - the rightwing in the USA fervently protects gun "rights" but actively endorses such things as the Patriot Act.

Thats leftist baloney and you know it. You look at states that have concealed carry laws, and crime goes way down, and still, to this day, no person that has a concealed carry permit, has ever used a firearm in the commission of a crime.

The UK, which has strict anti-gun laws, and where there is, I think, a total ban on private ownership of handguns, has a much lower rate of violent crime than does the US.

And don't give me crap about armed citizens stopping government tyranny - the rightwing in the USA fervently protects gun "rights" but actively endorses such things as the Patriot Act.

You also have about 1/2 our population (if that). You also fail to mention that since the restricted gun laws in the UK went into effect, crime increased, same with Australia.

Also, dont give ME the crap about the only people caring about gun rights being the far right. I am a Libertarian, and probably alot more Liberal than most on social issues, BUT, the important part is the fact that it is our right (thank goodness) and something that I care deeply about as a law abiding gun owner, and sportsman. I certainly am not right wing, dont endorse the patriot act, and wouldnt give you a plug nickel for Bush and Kerry. I care as much about the 1st Amendment as I do the 2nd, so please, next time, dont throw the labels around when you know nothing about the issue, or the person you are speaking with.

After reading your reply, I think that Myopia is a very appropriate name for you.

Thats leftist baloney and you know it. You look at states that have concealed carry laws, and crime goes way down, and still, to this day, no person that has a concealed carry permit, has ever used a firearm in the commission of a crime.

The UK, which has strict anti-gun laws, and where there is, I think, a total ban on private ownership of handguns, has a much lower rate of violent crime than does the US.

And don't give me crap about armed citizens stopping government tyranny - the rightwing in the USA fervently protects gun "rights" but actively endorses such things as the Patriot Act.

Violent crime statistics in the US are overwhelmingly slanted by figures in urban areas where firearms are almost completely banned. In places like New York and California, you still have the right to own a gun, but you can't use it to prevent a violent crime because:

1) You can't have it with you in public, save for shooting ranges or hunting grounds.
2) You can't use it in defense of yourself or others unless the other person has equal or greater weaponry.

Therefore, comparing UK and US violent crime statistics is the equivalent of apples and orangutangs.

It *is* meaningful to compare US to US crime statistics, such as the state of Florida, where they granted liberal concealed-carry permissions and saw a stunning drop in crimes of all types (with the exception of Miami-Dade County, where local restrictions supercede state permissions and the crime rate remained relatively unchanged). It's likewise meaningful to compare UK to UK statistics, such as the rise of violent crime since the enactment of the full gun ban.

The muddled gun laws in the US produce an unworkable model, in which the law-abiding citizens are disarmed and the lawbreakers have easy access. The alternatives are:

1) Follow the UK model and ban guns altogether, which empowers the criminal elements (2 or 3 guys with cricket bats have little to fear).

2) Go with the full liberalization model and issue concealed-carry permits to law-abiding citizens, and strike terror deep in the hearts of all wrongdoers.

Of the two options, only option 2 is proven effective. But wishy-washy leftists are scared by sensationalist Wild West movies (the West was actually quite mild) and images of Columbine (armed teachers would have put an immediate halt to that) and their fear overrides their reason.

Citizens have, and have always had, the moral obligation to contribute to the security and safety of their environment. Leftists avoid their obligation by passing it on to the state... but the simple fact is that no police force in the world can guarantee the safety of you, your family, or your property. In fact, until the criminal acts, police forces the world over are almost completely powerless. By the time they can take action, the crime is already in progress or has been completed. It's usually too late to do anything but try to find the perpetrator and hold him accountable. For the victim, that's too little, too late.

The people of Cabinia have accepted their responsibility to protect themselves and their neighborhoods, and we urge the world to step up and join them.