NationStates Jolt Archive

Located in a new and small region, it will be a while until we are able to make proposals and the like, lacking the nations for endorsements. Small regions should meet and discuss possibilities.

For example, we could author a proposal to allow groups of small regions to put forward proposals, but we would need a sponsor nation to take that forward.

Thoughts?

Located in a new and small region, it will be a while until we are able to make proposals and the like, lacking the nations for endorsements. Small regions should meet and discuss possibilities.

Hence telegram system + U.N. / General / Int. In. Forum + Others.

For example, we could author a proposal to allow groups of small regions to put forward proposals, but we would need a sponsor nation to take that forward.

Eh ? Clarify, I don't know if I should be stomping on something to do with game mechanics, explaining how the system works, or looking confused.

...

" :? "

* Settles on looking confused.

Thoughts?

1) Eh ? Small region proposal for small regions, eh ?

2) Me sleepy.

3) Going to get coffee laced with baileys irish cream.

* ZOOM.

:wink:

- Le Représentant de Komokom.

Ministre Régional de Substance.
L'Ordre de Vaillant États.
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/komokom.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/24401/page=display_nation)
Aspirez a la legalite avec l'egalite

<--- Not a Moderator, just a Know It All.

Telegrams are more one-on-one. This thread is a good place to discuss working possibilities, which is all I had in mind.

I’m aware of the game rules, which is why I was saying that even if small regions did author a proposal, someone else would need to take it forward to the General Assembly.

To clarify: I was suggesting that a proposal be written to allow several small regions to submit a proposal together, effectively making up for not having enough nations to gather endorsements. Moreover, I think it might be a good way for newer players to meet.

It sounds like a pretty decent idea to me. Besides simply coordinating proposal ideas, we could also look to help expand the vote on UN resolutions we can come to agreement on (must be unanimous, no majority rules), and thus go back and get our member nations to vote in line with the wishes of the organization.

There are certainly parallels to this in the real world--the Arabian and African nations have long recognized that they are far more powerful working as a group than as singular nations, and when they DO act in unison they occasionally obtain tangible results.

I will keep my region (Dragon) informed of the progress, but our regional delegate will have final say on joining such an organization.

Fang Aldersoot
Minister of Foreign Relations
Allied States of DragonIV

Not a bad idea, I think. Glad you're aware of game mechanics and trying to work within them until something's worked out. It sounds like you're looking for some sort of forum-based meeting, either here or on some freely hosted service like EZBoards.

If nothing else, a large group of "weak" delegates actually carries more impact than the sum of the Pacifics when it comes to proposals; the Pacific delegates can offer five proposal endorsements, whereas an alliance like the one you describe may be able to unleash more than twenty.

If nothing else, a large group of "weak" delegates actually carries more impact than the sum of the Pacifics when it comes to proposals; the Pacific delegates can offer five proposal endorsements, whereas an alliance like the one you describe may be able to unleash more than twenty.

As the Lux et Pax Delagate, I strongly support an Allience of Small, Liberal regions and nations like my own.

Perhaps we could form a group with a title like "Small Region Social Democrats". And perhaps a website (e.g. NSSRSD.org) or just a part of this forum. The Point however remains that the Small Liberal Regions must stand strong together and we must act swiftly.

How about a group of capitalizt, anti-UN regions?

Wait... that already exists. Never mind.

We are interested in discussions with all free market regions, regardless whether they are liberal, conservative or have another form of government.

Especially we are interested in discussion proposals which are inshuring the freedom of the economy and avoid further intrusion in the social, labour and tax policy of the sovereign nation states. We are shocked by the vote in favour of the 40-hour week. Even such overregulated nations like Germany do not have such a stupid law. It is outrageous, outrageous, outrageous.

We must act and discuss options how further resolutions in that respect can be band.
Proposals in favour of free trade, of freedom for self-employed workers to chose how long they want to work would be options at least to minimise the negativ aspects of the resolution which was just passed.
We welcome this forum.

To get 150 votes for the proposal in order to get it into a resolution is very difficult. Requiring 150 votes of regional delegates many small regions (with regional delegates) are MORE IMPORTANT than a few very big regions. We must come together and working jointly on proposals acceptable to all to achieve reaching the quorum of 150 regional delegates and only getting the opportunity to get such resolutions passed.

Especially in the effort of getting a proposal reaching the status of a resolution small regions play a key role and we should consult each other on this issue and support each other mutually.

Sincerely yours

Marc Smith, president of Kybernetia, regional delegate of Futura.

P.S. I´m having 3 endorsements. I can make proposals. Anyone who can´t shall make their suggestions. I´ll consider them and decide whether I suggest them on your behalf.

As with all alliances, understand that creating such a thing via UN resolution really isn't necessary. If you'd like to organize a voting bloc of like-minded small nations, go for it. You don't need our permission or even our encouragement.

If you do feel that you need an official resolution to bring about this cause, I would encourage you to be extremely careful with the wording. This isn't the kind of thing you want to see felled because a moderator didn't agree with your definition of game mechanics. Otherwise, you have the full support of Sophisa and her allies.

Sincerely yours,
Daniel M. Hillaker
Minister of Foreign Affairs

* Thinks for a moment,

" Would not an increase in delegates numbers raise the 6 % of total delegate number needed for quorum, making it in fact harder to get a proposal onto the floor ? "

* ...

" That aside, on the whole, with good writing,such a proposal could with some work come to pass, and would probably have some positive rejuvenational effect on the U.N. as a whole as well. Lots of new interested players and so on and so forth. "

- The Rep of Komokom, RMoS.

Who just realised he left his sig. stuff at home, stupid college computer and me forgetting my flash thumb nail drive !

How about a group of capitalizt, anti-UN regions?

Wait... that already exists. Never mind.

Several exist they just never agree on anything…

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

We are shocked by the vote in favour of the 40-hour week. Even such overregulated nations like Germany do not have such a stupid law.

Yes it does. Your wails that the work week resolution is "outrageous" just overlook how many real-world nations have such a law and how beneficial it tends to be.

Thoughts?All or many small regions could, of course, join eachother to become big themselves, too :) All nations are free to join Terra Nostra (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/44937/page=display_region/region=terra_nostra), or "Our World".

@East Hackney,

your arguments are just COMPLETLY FALSE.



Kybernetia wrote:
We are shocked by the vote in favour of the 40-hour week. Even such overregulated nations like Germany do not have such a stupid law."

East Hackney wrote:
"Yes it does. Your wails that the work week resolution is "outrageous" just overlook how many real-world nations have such a law and how beneficial it tends to be."

What you are saying is NOT TRUE: Even most of the notorious welfare nations DON´T HAVE such laws. They may be bilateral agreements between unions and employers but NOT A LAW. We do not oppose that employer and employee agree that there should be a 40-hour-week for the work contract. But they should be free to do so and free to set any time as regular time periode. Except France even the EU-countries DON´T have laws that say everything over 40 weeks is overtime and they must be a higher payment. That is even true in Germany. If the work contract doesn´t say anything the worker has the right to get for overtime the amount he/she gets for a normal hour. There is no law which says everything above a certain amount of hours is overtime.

There is a law which limits work for employed people to 10 hours a day. We would not oppose such a resolution. We do not oppose minimum standards. But this is not a minimum standard. It is a intrusion in national sovereignity and in the sovereignity of individuals (employee and employer) to make their contracts according to their will and their desires.


Sincerely yours

Marc Smith, president of Kybernetia

Hmm. Have you heard of the EU Working Time Directive, by any chance? It doesn't specify overtime - we never said it did. But it is a law and it does specify a 48-hour work week... which, in our view, is too high.

@distinguish East Hackney,


I have informed me in short about it. Firstly I want to state the following.
A directive of the EU is binding for the nation but it is not valid until it is implemented in national law. There are two legally binding instruments. I apologize but due to the fact that English is NOT my native tongue I don´t no the names in English and I´m not shure about the translation.
Both are legally binding. But one needs to be implemented into national law. The countries usually get an amount of time to do so and have some disgreacion how they implement it. This bill needs implementation, so it is one of those laws which are obviously called Directive in English.
The other way is direct EU-law which is binding too all countries and immidately (it doesn´t need implementation into national law).

Although of the differences both forms of EU-law have one thing in common. They are legally binding. The advantage of a directive is that it is giving nations some amount of disgreacion. Due to the different legal systems in Europe (mainly Roman law, but in Britain and Ireland Common law) it allows the nation to include the laws in their national legal tradition.

And now back to the point.
The directive allows working hours of up to 48 hours a week and grants many exceptions. This is much more than this resolution grants. From my knowledge of national german law it says that the work should not exceed 8 hours in a day and is not allowed to exceed 10 hours.
That would mean a maximum of 50 hours in five days or 60 hours in six days. However there ought to be somewhere a law that implements that EU-maximum of 48 hours. But I admitt that I´m unaware where they are written down (and they ought to be written down because Roman law is written law). I just no the 10 hour maximum per day.
And I have to add that people in many sectors work longer: from Police to doctors.

Also new laws have been passed to increase the work time of public servants from 40 hours to 42 hours without any payrise - more work - same pay. Well: socialism ends even in Germany, my right honourable friend. We don´t have a Maggy Thatcher but slowly we are having a tendency in the same direction. It is a historic irony that this is the case while we are having a red-green government, the first government since 1918 which consist ONLY by left-wing parties.

Sincerely yours

Marc Smith, president of Kybernetia

Distinguish colleagues,

there is one new proposal I would like to draw your attention to.
The honourable representativ Gemfish from the region Sout East Asia made the proposa:

"Lingustic Diversity"

"Description: This bill promotes the tolerance of languages other than a country’s official language/s and its citizens’ right to use languages other than this language/s, as well as the acceptance of all native languages in the communication of the world community.

RECOGNISING that language is intrinsic to the culture and ideology of a individuals and communities.

REALISING that in the mass usage of particular languages, minority languages are prone to die out, whereby a vital aspect of the culture and identity of the people is irrevocably lost.

This bill carries the following recommendations:

1. An appropriate percentage of each nation's budget to be directed to the preservation and stimulation of endangered languages.

2. Where a nation possesses indigenous language/s, opportunity is to be provided for these to be taught in appropriate educational institutions.

3. An interpreting service to be provided for United Nations correspondence with member nations in their native language/s. The United Nations and the nation requiring the service will jointly fund this.

A language tells a thousand words."

We are welcoming this proposal. Since the UN should represent all nations not only the English-speaking nations we especially welcome the recognition of other leagues which paragraph 3 points out.

Even if that only leads to a more symbolic recognition of other languages we consider this highly important as a message to all nations and their leaders that the UN wants to be really inclusive and wants to adress the concerns of all countries, regardless of what they language are and how good the English is which their leaders speak.
I´m calling on all nations to support this proposal to show their will and determination to build an inclusive UN for all.

Sincerely yours


Marc Smith, president of Kybernetia

The directive allows working hours of up to 48 hours a week and grants many exceptions. This is much more than this resolution grants. From my knowledge of national german law it says that the work should not exceed 8 hours in a day and is not allowed to exceed 10 hours.
That would mean a maximum of 50 hours in five days or 60 hours in six days. However there ought to be somewhere a law that implements that EU-maximum of 48 hours. But I admitt that I´m unaware where they are written down (and they ought to be written down because Roman law is written law). I just no the 10 hour maximum per day.

So far as I could gather, German law specifies a maximum of 10 hours which must average out at 8 a day over a set time - I think a year. So, if you work six hours a day, that gives you an average 48-hour week.

It also seems - though you may be more familiar with this than me - that Germany's strong unions mean that it doesn't need such strict working-time regulation. So far as I could gather, most work agreements have a 40-hour limit anyway because workers have a lot of freedom to negotiate this collectively, so there's no need for national law. But if Germany had less enlightened employers, the unions would no doubt start pushing for such a law.

@honourable representative of East Hackney,

"So far as I could gather, German law specifies a maximum of 10 hours which must average out at 8 a day over a set time - I think a year. So, if you work six hours a day, that gives you an average 48-hour week." - are you from Germany??
I looked it up to tell you exactly the wording of the legislation:
§ 3 ArbZG (working-time law) limits the time to a maximum of 10 hours per weekday (Monday-Saturday). It can exceed 48 hours but is not alowed to exceed an average of 48 hours within 6 months.
I don´t know the exact wording of the EU directive. But assuming that it is setting a maximum for the AVERAGE working week and allowing exceptions in certain sectors and furthermore if the average maintains, this law seems to be in compliance with the EU directive.

However I now that many doctors in hospitals (who are employees) are in fact working longer (the time is just not counted because of an legal interpretation the Eurepean Court declared as illegal a few months ago - however this verdict has not been implemented yet and the hospitals don´t want to implement it because it would make the health sector much more expansive (and the health insurance premium is already high and its going up).



"It also seems - though you may be more familiar with this than me - that Germany's strong unions mean that it doesn't need such strict working-time regulation. So far as I could gather, most work agreements have a 40-hour limit anyway because workers have a lot of freedom to negotiate this collectively, so there's no need for national law. But if Germany had less enlightened employers, the unions would no doubt start pushing for such a law."
Well: the unions would think otherwise.
By the way: it is just one year ago the unions went on strike in East Germany to push for the 35-hour-week. The strike fails because almost noone participated. The PEOPLE didn´t want a reduction of work (and payment). There is a big difference between the people and the unions.
Secondly: the regional states just agreed to increase the labour time of public servants from 40 hours to 42 hours without a payrise (more work - same pay). The union are very strong in the public sector but they are not able to change that.


Germany has NO MINIMUM WAGE LAWS. And that´s in principal good: because if the minimum wage is to high there is going to be a black market, it it is too low it has no effect and makes no sense to impose a minimum wage.
However due to the high social welfare and high taxes many jobs are only done under the hand - welfare and black work.

Sincerely yours

Marc Smith, president of Kybernetia


P.S. We do not consider the overregulating rules and regulations of Germany as an example for the UN. But they are even less restrictive than this STUPID 40-hour-resolution.

@ distinguish representative of Komokom


" Would not an increase in delegates numbers raise the 6 % of total delegate number needed for quorum, making it in fact harder to get a proposal onto the floor ? "

Continue to think. If there are 16 new regions, there are 16 new regional delegates and 16 more votes for a proposal. In contrast to that the quorum for the proposal would just rise by one delegate vote.

16 more region are making 16 new delegate votes - the price is just one more vote for the quorum. Therefore the advantage is 15 votes gained.
Small regions and alliances between many small region do make sense.

Sincerely yours

Marc Smith, president of Kybernetia