NationStates Jolt Archive

The following is about to be submitted to the proposal system and we are looking for constructive additions and revisions from anyone that has them.

Title: Reduce Black Market Arms Sales
Category: International Security, A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets
Strength: Significant

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

CONSIDERING that the illicit traffic in small arms impedes development, constitutes a threat to populations and security, and contributes to the destabilization of States;

RECOGNIZING the suffering caused by illicit trafficking in small arms and that States bear the obligation to bolster their efforts in developing practical ways of addressing the problem;

REAFFIRMING the right to individual or collective self-defense recognized within United Nations implying that States have the right to acquire arms for defense;

REITERATING the importance of the right of self-determination of all peoples, especially under alien domination or foreign occupation;

CONVINCED of the need for a thorough approach to control and reduce small arms and light weapons in a balanced manner to ensure international peace and security;

1. ADOPTS the following recommendations for the curbing of illicit traffic in small arms and light weapons with respect to the definitions of this weaponry articulated in the annex of this resolution;

2. REQUESTS an independent council be formed to continue to consider the matter and report to it at its subsequent sessions on the implementation of this resolution and to seek and consider the views of all Member States on the objective, scope, agenda, dates and venue of an international conference on the illicit arms trade;

3. DECIDES to convene an international conference on all aspects of the illicit arms trade no later than 2005;

4. WELCOMES the offer by the Government of Mikitivity to host in Miervatia, no later than 2005, an international conference on all aspects of the illicit arms trade;

5. ENCOURAGES the establishment of national programmes to combat the illicit transfer of small arms and ensure the collection thereof within the suggested parameters of paragraph 6 and invites the international community to render technical and financial support to strengthen the ability of States to take these actions;

6. RECOMMENDS that participating States should implement programmes of action which would:

a) employ regulations to control the production of small arms and light weapons within their jurisdiction, and over the export, import, transit or retransfer of such weapons;

b) generate agencies responsible for policy guidance of efforts to prevent illicit trade, including aspects of illicit manufacture, control, trafficking, circulation, brokering, trade, as well as tracing, finance, collection and destruction of small arms;

c) ensure responsibility for all small arms held and issued by the state and create measures for tracing such weapons;

d) and enact, where possible, effective disarmament, demobilization and reintegration programmes, including effective collection, control, storage and destruction of small arms, particularly in post-conflict zones, as well as address the special needs of children affected by armed conflict.

ANNEX

DEFINITIONS
In the present resolution and its aspects:

a) “Small arms” means man-portable firearms and their ammunition primarily designed for individual use by military forces as lethal weapons; the term shall be used interchangeably to also denote the aggregate of small arms and light weapons;

b) “Light weapons” means some man-portable firearms and their ammunition, light artillery guns and rockets, and guided missiles for use against armored vehicles, aircraft, or fortifications.



Just to clear up the basics of the proposal...

Here are its aims:

- Targeting black market trade of small arms and light weaponry

- Forming an independent council to sort out the agenda and scope of a summit on the black market trade of small arms and light weaponry

- Holding an international summit to discuss methods of dealing with black market trade of small arms and light weaponry

- Offer a framework for networking participating nations together in order to provide exchange of resources and support in order to help all participants execute their individual initiatives to the fullest extent possible

- Encourage nations willing to participate in a networked international programme to:

• Monitor and regulate arms production, transfer, and sales within their borders
• Generate organs and policies to deal with illegal production of weaponry
• Create methods to track all arms issued by the nation
• Collect and destroy arms caches in post-conflict zones
• Tend to the special needs of children caught in the crossfire in post-conflict zones

The resolution does not:

- Force nations to participate in the regulatory programme

- Make any suggestion about curtailing private citizen ownership of handguns, etc, or even implementing personal gun ownership registration measures.

- Suggest nations disarm their conventional forces

- Regulate a nation's arms trading, only its black market elements

i fully agree and would be glad to help

*gentle bump* This thing's going to propsal tomorrow and we're always appreciative of any input.

BUMP ahoy!

Since this draft's been stagnating here, it's been moved to the proposal docket. If you are a delegate and think it worthwhile, search the proposal system for "Reduce Black Market Arms Sales" and please be so kind as to endorse it. Many thanks, and we will continue to take suggestions for a possible revision in the future.

In my nation, I will NEVER restrict my citizens' right to bare arms in any way. PERIOD.

Read the damn proposal. This is not a restriction on bearing arms. It's a restriction on illegally trading them. If all weapons are legal in your nation, there's no illegal arms trade and this doesn't affect you.

In my nation, I will NEVER restrict my citizens' right to bare arms in any way. PERIOD.

BLACK MARKET sale. It doesn't take a lot of mental dexterity to understand what that means.

Firstly, the resolution makes no mention of private gun ownership or gun registration. It makes no effort to address whether the right of a nation's citizens to bear arms should be granted or not. It reaffirms nations' right to raise an army in self-defense and also for oppressed peoples to resist foreign domination. Private gun ownership is in no fashion mentioned or discouraged.

Secondly, what it does intend to address is the illegal manufacture, purchase, or sale of small arms and light weaponry. Private citizens do not have a right to purchase a gun from an unlicensed dealer. Private citizens have no need of most small arms and light weaponry, as there cannot be a practical use for private possession of a bazooka or mortar.


The resolution does not:

- Make any suggestion about curtailing private citizen ownership of handguns, etc, or even implementing personal gun ownership registration measures.

Please evaluate before you speak.

As long as my citizens are allowed to carry their government issued chainguns, I see no reason why black market arms sales should be stomped out of existance.
Emperor TAJ

As long as my citizens are allowed to carry their government issued chainguns, I see no reason why black market arms sales should be stomped out of existance.
Emperor TAJ
Nothing can be noted within the proposal that would suggest otherwise.

2. REQUESTS an independent council be formed to continue to consider the matter and report to it at its subsequent sessions on the implementation of this resolution and to seek and consider the views of all Member States on the objective, scope, agenda, dates and venue of an international conference on the illicit arms trade;

3. DECIDES to convene an international conference on all aspects of the illicit arms trade no later than 2005;


Point of clarifcation:
The independent council reads as though it will help organize the international conference, particularly with things like the agenda, but I'd like to know if the delegations sent to the conference will be large enough to include experts on arms legal and illegal?

I ask this, because it seems that in this case, a larger delegation may offer more than small delegations.

10kMichael

Point of clarifcation:
The independent council reads as though it will help organize the international conference, particularly with things like the agenda, but I'd like to know if the delegations sent to the conference will be large enough to include experts on arms legal and illegal?

I ask this, because it seems that in this case, a larger delegation may offer more than small delegations.

10kMichael

As far as I can gather, much of that ultimately ends up being determined by the council, as they are to be setting both the scope and agenda of the summit. One could only hope that significant delegations would be able to attend this meeting, most especially including arms experts who would be able to address the issues of the availability and leathiality of such weapons.

As far as I can gather, much of that ultimately ends up being determined by the council, as they are to be setting both the scope and agenda of the summit. One could only hope that significant delegations would be able to attend this meeting, most especially including arms experts who would be able to address the issues of the availability and leathiality of such weapons.

I would have a suggestion: arms manufactors should attend as well, perhaps as non-governmental representatives. Naturally the UN grants votes to member nations, but the companies (when not controlled by governments) that make weapons will be able to address the costs associated with tracking them.

If enough nations are going to agree upon tracking, it certainly is in the economic interest of the manufactors to at the very least observe the conference.

10kMichael

Our delegation would like to support this proposal, we hope that this would lead to the gradual dismantling of the black market arms sales.

Our delegation would like to support this proposal, we hope that this would lead to the gradual dismantling of the black market arms sales.

You have been sent a telegram regarding details on how you may lend your support. Thanks kindly.

We urge UN delegates to endorse this proposal. It has 72 approvals and requires a further 81. Type 'black market' in the 'Find a proposal' box to find it.

Many thanks.

This proposal has my support.

I wonder who our delegate is today. :wink:

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

Bump... eight more approvals required.

excellent proposal, and I will be urging my delegate to endorse anon.

At 12:09 CST, quorum was reached on this proposal and it will be the next up for debate by the UN. I do hope the conservatives realize this isn't gun control but policing black market activities.

My sincerest gratitude is extended to the nations of Magicality, Sekisetsu, Longbourn, N8ive America, Pavliker, Spurland, Aanmericaa, Moodgies, Biotopia, Deltasy, Colonial Poland, Drawnel, Checkers McDog, The Wise Dragon, Park Slope-estan, C1ndy, NewTexas, Sinn Feins Ireland, Lethania, Imperial Gods, Amory, Bhagavan, Thrace-Tailteann, Faustitausia, Jewipitania, Atlantic Quays, Benestad-Garelliana, Hovin, Quareat, Chertu, Calientia, Senja, Juice Bag, Blamgolia, Franopia, Hersfold, Chroneosia, America the American, Marturia, The Rainbow Tribe, Luftjagger, Kierig, Jamovia, Erin Cecelia, ShamrockMan, Kiyai, Melmond, Brogona, Macago, BritestKrayon, Landris, N-SIGN, Lliam, Enripta, Deigo, Some Hole, Grointium, Dannytropolis, Seocc, Madsenavia, Dolphinarium, Borgonzolia, Vostros, Thermidore, Llarrion, Baudrillard, Caryopteris, Bursledon, Eelopia, Corneil, Kordo, Layhnar-Deleney, Watfordshire, Gobbo Power, Arcon Imperium, Lamancusodom, Dunnlovia, Millitant Yankee Fans, Concerted Socialists, Liversausage, Elvandair, Quirn, Prasq, Meerkatea, Hell inc, Bakrak, Civfanatica, Mainland pride, Ritsa, Binzer, Rakiec, Moooooistan, Guania, Monopolosis, Governance, Althainia II, Beaumontia, Camp Carpenter, The Talisman, Gombo De Poulet, Cleansing Flame, Lodgeden, Coolet, Baribeau, Serengarve, Todovostok, NikuSerano, Ranhoth, Nok-Nok, Gables, Inner Happiness, Computopia, UssExcelsior, Corinos, European Union Spain, ChicoDog, Brisering, Buffalo-Niagara, Schwinland, Samstonia, Zlovenia, Rumdumdum, Nor Anglan, Kzagblech, Shurtugal, Comberthe, LadyRebels, Frisbeeteria, Twilight Selene, Manschavunism, The Vorlon Empire, Alneida, Littlekitty, The Logarchy, The Ramstad, The Bureau, Boring Rocks, Leochness, Lornopolis, Rondebosch, Twinkville, Mandralique, Falang, Splynn, _Myopia_, The Papalcy, White Lotus Eaters, EcoVille, Jambea, Neo Bretania, Bristo, and Khanrad. These were the instrumental approvals responsible for bringing the proposal to resolution, and I think it worthy of consideration and a vote [in favor of course].

I think this proposal is a sham. The reason black market arms exist is because of governments like yours. You used these weapons to take power and now you want to eradicate them from use so noone poses a threat to your weak unoriginal ideas of human oppression. The Radishes of the Discordian Rogue State. Will now be opening trade with any NON UN nation that wishes to purchase surplus weapons from our war of secession. This includes the sale of experimental weapons systems using atomic and magnetic energies.


Foreign Object of Discord (F.O.D.) Malignus the Malignant

I think this proposal is a sham. The reason black market arms exist is because of governments like yours. You used these weapons to take power and now you want to eradicate them from use so noone poses a threat to your weak unoriginal ideas of human oppression. The Radishes of the Discordian Rogue State. Will now be opening trade with any NON UN nation that wishes to purchase surplus weapons from our war of secession. This includes the sale of experimental weapons systems using atomic and magnetic energies.


Foreign Object of Discord (F.O.D.) Malignus the Malignant

I'm amazed how fast these new folks get all full of adrenaline and testosterone and make with the defiance just for the sole purpose of doing so. I've been around NS for too long to have my government indicted for that kind of crap. :roll:

I think this proposal is a sham. The reason black market arms exist is because of governments like yours. You used these weapons to take power and now you want to eradicate them from use so noone poses a threat to your weak unoriginal ideas of human oppression. The Radishes of the Discordian Rogue State. Will now be opening trade with any NON UN nation that wishes to purchase surplus weapons from our war of secession. This includes the sale of experimental weapons systems using atomic and magnetic energies.


Foreign Object of Discord (F.O.D.) Malignus the Malignant

I think this proposal is a sham. The reason black market arms exist is because of governments like yours. You used these weapons to take power and now you want to eradicate them from use so noone poses a threat to your weak unoriginal ideas of human oppression. The Radishes of the Discordian Rogue State. Will now be opening trade with any NON UN nation that wishes to purchase surplus weapons from our war of secession. This includes the sale of experimental weapons systems using atomic and magnetic energies.


Foreign Object of Discord (F.O.D.) Malignus the Malignant

OK, I wasn't expecting dissent to take this form... full marks for originality though.

I'm amazed how fast these new folks get all full of adrenaline and testosterone and make with the defiance just for the sole purpose of doing so. I've been around NS for too long to have my government indicted for that kind of crap. :roll:

Someone has to stand up for the logical people who understand that making resolutions or laws against an infamous black market only creates another one with even more insidious characters. Obviously you've learned nothing from real life. Im only playing the character that wants total freedom for his people because of the belief in responsibility. You dont wanna sell arms DONT! Dont start crappin on me because you think its right to make laws concerning people who could give two rat turds about your peoples false sense of security you provide.


PS sorry about the multi post. this forum crashes alot

Hardly what I'd deem a reasonable justification for standing idly by. I seriously doubt the completely accuracy of that statement. The resolution is highly unlikely to make the threat more insidious or pronounced; I've learned a lot from real life, including that the UN found it also feasible and effective to launch arms reintegration programmes like this to combat black market sales.

This has nothing to do with whether or not my nation wants to sell arms and everything to do with criminal forces who are peddling them outside of the lawful systems of governments internationally. It's never had to do with regulation of arms trading by States. Very eloquent use of the phrase "two rat turds" by the way.

Will now be opening trade with any NON UN nation that wishes to purchase surplus weapons from our war of secession. This includes the sale of experimental weapons systems using atomic and magnetic energies.


Black market sales are usually considered illegal, covert weapons sales, not publically advertisted sales to any [fill-in blank] nation. Your above threat isn't the point of this pending resolution.


10kMichael

Quorum has been reached (and then some), so I think this deserves a bump.

Exactly how do you plan on regulating a black market which is by definition unregulated. If you are able to regulate it, it is legal.

Exactly how do you plan on regulating a black market which is by definition unregulated. If you are able to regulate it, it is legal.

Courtesy of Merriam-Webster.com (http://www.merriam-webster.com/)

Main Entry: crack down
Function: intransitive verb
: to take positive regulatory or disciplinary action


Policing illegal activity isn't a new concept, and the "regulation" assumes creating legal standards for arms manufacture within a country. A black market would necessarily ignore those standards, operate outside the law, and would thusly need to be "cracked down."

Replace markets with anarcho-communism. Problem solved.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Replace markets with anarcho-communism. Problem solved.

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/eddy_the_great/steatopygia.jpg

Yes, the Commonwealth of the Island of Rose supports you fully. We are proud to see steps against the Black Market. It is just another step into full disarmenment of conventional forces. Of course a man dream. We the people would love to support it. And if you have a sliver of morality in you, you would support this resolution. Also, I would want to thank the United Nations for letting our Commonwealth join. We promise to uphold their rules and vote on any new resolutions. Thank you and good bye.







President Sergei Ilyanov of the Commonwealth of Rose.

Congrats on making it to the floor!

The Empire of Mosstania will vote against the proposal by Galdago, as at the moment, Mosstanian illicit arms trade is a gigantic problem, and thus that resolution would do little to help our situation, we need smaller steps and thus do not find this resolution useful to our cause.

Another reason for our veto is because our government, somewhat economically troubled and technologically backward, routinely uses the black market to buy weapons with which to provide armed officers and guards. This problem is currently being ammended, as we have just increased military spending in order to conduct research and to create official weapons.

Another reason for our veto is because our government, somewhat economically troubled and technologically backward, routinely uses the black market to buy weapons with which to provide armed officers and guards. This problem is currently being ammended, as we have just increased military spending in order to conduct research and to create official weapons.

Actually your nation does *not* have a veto. If the resolution passes, your government is still subject to the provisions of this resolution.

What my government doesn't understand, is why your nation would pay more for black market weapons if it claims to be in economic troubles? The reason black markets exist, is they bypassing existing regulations. Since they are illegal, the risk to black market dealers is high, and costs rise.

If your nation wants to save a buck, find one of the miriad of nations that legally sell small arms to provide your officers and guards.

My own nation's small arms come through legal contracts with other North Pacific nations. Unfortunately one of the previous nations my country bought small arms from ceased to exist not too long ago.

10kMichael

Dunlend has no objection to this resolution and will, in fact, vote in the affirmative. We would like to not with great pleasure the defining of terms evident in the resolution.

Dunlend

Somebody must be patriatic, because this is the type of thing that allows the US to go to war. That's sick. I will not support something that doesn't allow the soveregnty of other nations.

So let me get this straight, this proposal doesn't actualy force specific nations to do anything? It just forces the UN to create a council, correct? Since my nation is opposed to laws in general, I will support this proposal if I have interpereted it correctly.

Indeed - most of the stuff in there is just recommendations, which establish the attitude of the UN towards this issue but don't force anything on anybody. Most of this is about establishing cooperation between willing nations - which, after all, is what the UN is meant to be about.

Somebody must be patriatic, because this is the type of thing that allows the US to go to war. That's sick. I will not support something that doesn't allow the soveregnty of other nations.

I will first read to you since you seem incapable of reading for yourself.


REAFFIRMING the right to individual or collective self-defense recognized within United Nations implying that States have the right to acquire arms for defense;

REITERATING the importance of the right of self-determination of all peoples, especially under alien domination or foreign occupation;

It would seem your superior reasoning ability falls at the hands of your short attention span. This resolution just aims to crack down on illegal dealing of small/light weaponry. Quit being so bullheaded as to pretend US big-brother mentality has any correlation to this proposal.

I've got a question; you're crazy.

Isn´t the black market selling of any weapon already a crime? Why are you re-inventing the wheel again. Anyone caught stealing or selling AK´s from Rubberduckistan´s small arms factories usually find themselves in wrong end of AK.

Will someone who's read the proposal please raise an objection, please?

Isn´t the black market selling of any weapon already a crime? Why are you re-inventing the wheel again. Anyone caught stealing or selling AK´s from Rubberduckistan´s small arms factories usually find themselves in wrong end of AK.

But that isn't the point.

The resolution is about working together to fing better ways to close down the weapons black market.

You see, wouldn't it be easier for Rubberduckistan to clap down on anyone caught stealing or seeling AKs from your small arms factoris if we had ways to indentify the buyers of these weapons? This is just one of many of the ideas the conference will talk about.

Well, my Duckche-Party informer network makes it pretty sure that everyone doing that is caught, sooner than later. My Bureau of Internal Security has many innovative "questioning" methods. There is always room in execution line, like the local saying goes. Or maybe healthy vacation in remote GULAG? :wink:

I hate to bring it up, but there may be a small paradox you've accidentally written into the proposal.

The proposal mentions the right of individuals to obtain arms while faced with foreign invasion and occupation. Yet one method, and certainly one with considerably less complication and less risk than attacking an armory or supply convoy, is through the black market. By attempting to crack down on it, it would appear that you're defeating or contradicting one of your own purported reasons for the bill in the first place. While the black market as a whole and in general is not particularly desireable, it nevertheless has its uses during unusual or extreme circumstances. You may wish to think about rephrasing or rewording things to take this into account.

Well, my Duckche-Party informer network makes it pretty sure that everyone doing that is caught, sooner than later. My Bureau of Internal Security has many innovative "questioning" methods. There is always room in execution line, like the local saying goes. Or maybe healthy vacation in remote GULAG? :wink:

With that in mind, then maybe you would consider supporting this resolution and sharing some of the secrets of the success of your program with the rest of us, because working together we can curb the flow of illegal small arms sales that your informer doesn't not catch -- like sales in countries that don't involve Rubberduckistan.

:)

10kMichael

I hate to bring it up, but there may be a small paradox you've accidentally written into the proposal.

The proposal mentions the right of individuals to obtain arms while faced with foreign invasion and occupation. Yet one method, and certainly one with considerably less complication and less risk than attacking an armory or supply convoy, is through the black market. By attempting to crack down on it, it would appear that you're defeating or contradicting one of your own purported reasons for the bill in the first place. While the black market as a whole and in general is not particularly desireable, it nevertheless has its uses during unusual or extreme circumstances. You may wish to think about rephrasing or rewording things to take this into account.

We recognize this inherent seeming paradox, but we feel the right to resist the oppression of a government that defeats self-determination supercedes the aims of this resolution. Moreover, I would still say the resolution is a worthy ideal worth lending your support to and I hope you will agree.

Well, every military depot commander is personally responsible for exact number of guns in storage. If any of are found missing in suprise inspection conducted by Bureau of Internal Security, whole unit guarding is transferred to Punitive Service Battalion, labouring in one of our numerous bunker projects. Commanding officers usually meet....less pleasant end of their careers. Any informant found taking bribes are promoted to Security Services Academy, as target practice, or "creative information extraction methods" targets. 8)

And, of course, Rubberduckistan is happy to help any nation in need to curb the illegal arms dealing.

Premiere Rubberduck

The proposal mentions the right of individuals to obtain arms while faced with foreign invasion and occupation. Yet one method, and certainly one with considerably less complication and less risk than attacking an armory or supply convoy, is through the black market. By attempting to crack down on it, it would appear that you're defeating or contradicting one of your own purported reasons for the bill in the first place. While the black market as a whole and in general is not particularly desireable, it nevertheless has its uses during unusual or extreme circumstances. You may wish to think about rephrasing or rewording things to take this into account.
Which is why, instead of making sweeping legislation that everyone has to obey, this proposal merely makes recommendations and sets up a committee to find ways of addressing the problem without impinging on this right.

Unless I am missing a key point in this resolution, I fail to see why it is necessary. However, I can quite clearly see that this is a threat to my nation's sovereignty.

My understanding is that illicit trade of arms is by its very definition illegal. Nothing whatsover is accomplished by calling the Assembled Nations to vote on a resolution that seems only to identify a problem that is already apparent. What we need is a resolution that proscribes definite embargos, sanctions, and military reprisals for failure on the part of sovereign nations to comply with existing laws governing the trade, manufacture, and sale of arms across national borders.

The illicit trade of small arms and light arms is already illegal. It is unneccesary therefor to create agencies governing the enforcement of already existing laws. This function is already performed by law enforcement and where necessary, the armed forces of my nation.

I fail to see where this resolution actually accomplishes anything that it is not already the responsibility of sovereign nations to do. Aside from a considerably powerful council that will soon have the power to apparently decide what constitutes illicit arms trafficing, what else have we accomplished in passing this resolution?

Just overturn it, not difficult. You have the evidence in this forum. Do the sane thing and get rid of this monstrosity.

Regards,

TNE

Unless I am missing a key point in this resolution, I fail to see why it is necessary. However, I can quite clearly see that this is a threat to my nation's sovereignty.

My understanding is that illicit trade of arms is by its very definition illegal. Nothing whatsover is accomplished by calling the Assembled Nations to vote on a resolution that seems only to identify a problem that is already apparent. What we need is a resolution that proscribes definite embargos, sanctions, and military reprisals for failure on the part of sovereign nations to comply with existing laws governing the trade, manufacture, and sale of arms across national borders.

The illicit trade of small arms and light arms is already illegal. It is unneccesary therefor to create agencies governing the enforcement of already existing laws. This function is already performed by law enforcement and where necessary, the armed forces of my nation.

I fail to see where this resolution actually accomplishes anything that it is not already the responsibility of sovereign nations to do. Aside from a considerably powerful council that will soon have the power to apparently decide what constitutes illicit arms trafficing, what else have we accomplished in passing this resolution?

It's been repeated throughout the thread... it calls an international summit to find more effective ways of dealing with the specifically targeted problem of small arms/light weapons trafficking and also provides an international framework to assist [usually developing] countries with monetary and substantial needs to better take these police actions. That's why it's necessary. It's a united international front against the largest sector of the arms black market.

Vote cast in favor of the bill.
Illegal weapons should not be put into the arms of criminals, expecially the "light" classification, (the portable missiles, etc.)

THE NOMADIC PEOPLES OF NINTU OPPOSE SAID RESOLUTION BECAUSE IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE OF A STATE AND IT'S PEOPLE.

THE NOMADIC PEOPLES OF NINTU ARE THE WORLD BENCHMARK FOR POLITICAL FREEDOMS.

Of course selling arms on the Black Market is illegal, but these criminals still do it. Crime is a problem to all and all whom would like crime to be lighter should vote for this.

We need to stop them at the source and this is the way to do it.

the problem i have with the proposal is that although its intentions are good, it treats small nations as myself unfairly. eg, if black market trade is destroyed, the large countries with large munitions exports will easily squeeze out any smaller competitors. as a result, the black market is necessary for there to be any economic viability for developing countries. i know it is unethical, but while a country is developing, there just aren't any other options. respectfully submitted, cask of amontillado

COMBAT WEAPONRY FOR ALL! MORTAL COMBAT! VIOLENCE IN THE STREETS! That's my nation's motto. Actually its not. But that would be a good one. Maybe that's what it'll change to next week. Or maybe it'll be "Shut up you whinie hippie! You're annoying!" Anyway, the black market's cool- it sells things like arms...AND GUNS! The point is we can't REDUCE the sale of arms in the black market, WE'VE GOT TO PROMOTE IT! We have to make black markets legal and safe...like the right to jump up and down and scream "HOLLA!" If the black market isn't legal, what's next? Illegalization of screaming fire in the movie theatre???

(Please don't take anything I say seriously.)

(Please don't take anything I say seriously.)

Given the amount of work I've actually done on this proposal, I have no intention of doing so.

In Fredonia and Commerce, the issue is whether a government body has the right to determine what a private citizen feels he or she needs in the way of weapons ownership. We do not see ownership of weaponry as a matter of hunters' rights, or even one of personal self-defense. The fact that your proposal does not limit these concerns is immaterial to us. The issue for us is that an armed population is harder to oppress that an unarmed one. We do not believe that government is inherently virtuous, and we trust it no further than we can throw one of our giant argent wombats. To the sponsor of this proposal, the Incorporated States of Fredonia and Commerce send our compliments, and request that you keep your well-intentioned, liberal, abnormally large nose out of our internal affairs.

Rufus T. Firefly, hipster Prez of Fredonia and Commerce.

Reduce Black Market Arms Sales
“A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets.”

Category: International Security
Strength: Significant

*************************


It is our understanding of the NationStates United Nations system that the passage of this resolution – by means of its category and strength alone – will result in the “significant increase” of the police and military budgets of all NationStates UN nations.

And this in return for only an increase in the (imaginary) UN bureaucracy, good intentioned as its motivation may be.

At first, notwithstanding its length and vagueness, we thought we would support those apparent good intentions.

However, realizing that its actual NationStates effect will be only to “significantly increase the police and military budget,” of our nation (and of ALL the world’s UN nations) we have determined not support it, and encourage all UN nations to consider THE ACTUAL NATIONSTATES EFFECT of the passage of this resolution.


Ulaghchi
Obek of The Dog God
UN Delegate for the BUDDHIST REGION OF JAMBUDVIPA


*************************

When a nation follows the Way,
Horses bear manure through its fields;
When a nation ignores the Way,
Horses bear soldiers through its streets.

There is no greater mistake than following desire;
There is no greater disaster than forgetting contentment;
There is no greater sickness than seeking attainment;
But one who is content to satisfy his needs
Finds that contentment endures.

...

The People of the USSYP concur with Obek Ulaghchi and the People of The Dog God. There is no reason that such a well-intentioned resolution could not achieve similar results without the need of increasing our military and police budgets. Being a crimeless society, we find this insulting and demeaning, and urge all other states believing in freedom and justice to vote down this particular form of the resolution, in hopes that one which does not infringe upon our domestic budget and civil rights will emerge from its ashes.

Naruwan,
The People
Revolutionary Party of Respect Community and Justice
United Socialist States of Yellow Peril
Paradigm

It is our understanding of the NationStates United Nations system that the passage of this resolution – by means of its category and strength alone – will result in the “significant increase” of the police and military budgets of all NationStates UN nations.

However, realizing that its actual NationStates effect will be only to “significantly increase the police and military budget,” of our nation (and of ALL the world’s UN nations) we have determined not support it, and encourage all UN nations to consider THE ACTUAL NATIONSTATES EFFECT of the passage of this resolution.

Both of you get off your nation stats cloud and RP your way through this game. Cripes, make your own blessed reality. Any decent RPer uses the actual stats page for his/her nation as a rough guideline, not a hard and fast rule.

I truely hate excessivly wordy proposals so therefore rather than read it i have merely voted against it.

Both of you get off your nation stats cloud and RP your way through this game. Cripes, make your own blessed reality. Any decent RPer uses the actual stats page for his/her nation as a rough guideline, not a hard and fast rule.

There is a category called "Global Disarmament" whose effect is "to slash worldwide military spending."

The fact is that your resolution will “significantly increase the police and military budget,” of our nation and of ALL the world’s UN nations.

A good resolution (like any action) balances its negative and positive results, and is, in the end (we hope), a positive net addition to the world.

The imaginary benefit of "Reduce Black Market Arms Sales" does not seem to us to outweigh its undeniable negative effects on the entire NationStates world, especially considering that it could have done both rhetorical AND practical good.


Peace to all sentient beings,
Ulaghchi
Obek of The Dog God
UN Delegate for the BUDDHIST REGION OF JAMBUDVIPA

Both of you get off your nation stats cloud and RP your way through this game. Cripes, make your own blessed reality. Any decent RPer uses the actual stats page for his/her nation as a rough guideline, not a hard and fast rule.

There is a category called "Global Disarmament" whose effect is "to slash worldwide military spending."

The fact is that your resolution will “significantly increase the police and military budget,” of our nation and of ALL the world’s UN nations.

A good resolution (like any action) balances its negative and positive results, and is, in the end (we hope), a positive net addition to the world.

The imaginary benefit of "Reduce Black Market Arms Sales" does not seem to us to outweigh its undeniable negative effects on the entire NationStates world, especially considering that it could have done both rhetorical AND practical good.


Peace to all sentient beings,
Ulaghchi
Obek of The Dog God
UN Delegate for the BUDDHIST REGION OF JAMBUDVIPA


We agree with the Buddhist delegate.

And Galdago, where do you get off telling other nations "how to play the game"?

Inherent Amelioration
"The United Nations can work."

The effect of global disarmament is to cut national military budgets. This is nothing to do with cutting national military budgets; it would require an increase, since it's really an international-policing and anti-smuggling resolution. If you're only playing the game for the stats, there's little point of being in the UN.

Also, what's a Buddhist doing quoting Daoist texts?

The effect of global disarmament is to cut national military budgets. This is nothing to do with cutting national military budgets; it would require an increase, since it's really an international-policing and anti-smuggling resolution. If you're only playing the game for the stats, there's little point of being in the UN.

Also, what's a Buddhist doing quoting Daoist texts?
This seems a little silly.

The effect of global disarmament is to cut national military budgets. This is nothing to do with cutting national military budgets; it would require an increase, since it's really an international-policing and anti-smuggling resolution.
The resolution calls largely for: a UN conference, agencies responsible for policy guidance, establishment of national programmes, an independent council, etc..

Admittedly Point 6, part d would require some increase in local police funding, but that's hardly the same as a "significant" increase in military budgets worldwide.


If you're only playing the game for the stats, there's little point of being in the UN.

This "playing for stats" line is a canard. UN resolutions have two aspects: one is the rhetorical, the other the actual game effect -- which does indeed effect the character, the actual identity (not merely the "stats"), of every UN nation.

A good proposal matches the two. This proposal, if one does not credit its good intentions, is almost "bait and switch." Sounds like it means to reduce the amount of armaments in the world, but actually increases them.


Also, what's a Buddhist doing quoting Daoist texts?

Not my business to speak for them, but making a very Buddhist point apparently, I'd say.


Inherent Amelioration
"The United Nations can work"

Thank you, Inherent Amelioration.

(I believe the lines referred to are indeed from the Tao Te Ching. They were suggested for our postings in the Pacifics by one of the nations of the region, The Dominion of the Impermanent.

The BUDDHIST REGION OF JAMBUDVIPA welcomes all nations regardless of their religious beliefs.)

Ulaghchi
Obek of The Dog God

The People of the USSYP concur with Obek Ulaghchi and the People of The Dog God. There is no reason that such a well-intentioned resolution could not achieve similar results without the need of increasing our military and police budgets. Being a crimeless society, we find this insulting and demeaning, and urge all other states believing in freedom and justice to vote down this particular form of the resolution, in hopes that one which does not infringe upon our domestic budget and civil rights will emerge from its ashes.

Naruwan,
The People
Revolutionary Party of Respect Community and Justice
United Socialist States of Yellow Peril
Paradigm

OK, how would you rate this resolution then? Obviously you find the resolution well-intentioned and your primary (if not only) objection is to its "classification".

So since you have the answers, how should we fix it?

Anyone?

If you don't know or just want to say, "This is not the way?" Please go to the proposal submital form and spend 10-minutes using the form. Then come back and share what you've found.

I think you'll find the experience valuable and that the experience will quiet your arguments.

10kMichael

The People of the USSYP concur with Obek Ulaghchi and the People of The Dog God. There is no reason that such a well-intentioned resolution could not achieve similar results without the need of increasing our military and police budgets. Being a crimeless society, we find this insulting and demeaning, and urge all other states believing in freedom and justice to vote down this particular form of the resolution, in hopes that one which does not infringe upon our domestic budget and civil rights will emerge from its ashes.

Naruwan,
The People
Revolutionary Party of Respect Community and Justice
United Socialist States of Yellow Peril
Paradigm

OK, how would you rate this resolution then? Obviously you find the resolution well-intentioned and your primary (if not only) objection is to its "classification".

So since you have the answers, how should we fix it?

Anyone?

If you don't know or just want to say, "This is not the way?" Please go to the proposal submital form and spend 10-minutes using the form. Then come back and share what you've found.

I think you'll find the experience valuable and that the experience will quiet your arguments.

10kMichael

Dearie,
Did you read the posts following that one?


There is a category called "Global Disarmament" whose effect is "to slash worldwide military spending."

It takes less than 10 minutes to find that.


PS: It is a very nicely written resolution. It must have taken a lot of work. But its in a category that runs in the opposite direction of what it claims to be trying to do -- the one category that increases spending on weapons in every country in the UN!


Love and kisses,
The Queen

The Allied States of Neuropica, after much internal dicussion of this issue, must regretfully withdraw its support of this resolution due to the fact that it is miscategorized. We would be more than happy to vote for a new version of this resolution that fixed this problem of categories.

Ahem, may I draw your attention to this from Enodia?


Category and Description not matching
Some proposals which get deleted for this reason are exceedingly Orwellian, most are just disturbing. Simply put, pay attention to your proposal's category and prevent it from being different to the description. A classic example here is the "Human Rights" category. Proposals here are automatically "A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights" - with the key word being "worldwide".
As a result, a proposal saying "we should kill all the gays" (yes, it comes up) listed under "Human Rights" is going to be deleted. If you have to ask why, I'm rather worried, but I'll explain briefly: To quote Brooke Shields, "If you're dead, you've lost a very important part of your life". In other words, a proposal to improve worldwide human rights will not do that if it involves killing off a section of the worldwide humans.

If it was miscategorized, wouldn't the mods have removed it?

Indeed. The category was checked out by a mod. The important thing to realise is that this proposal wouldn't cut government spending on weapons, but would require military spending to implement.

I feel that the wording of the document is very loose since the operative clauses are only voluntary. I understand that this allows countries that are not applicable to be immune from the document, but it allows EVERY SINGLE OTHER COUNTRY to be immune as well. There is no teeth to this paper and I see it as another piece of unnecessary legislation that adds to the costly bureaucracy of the UN.

Compulsory, make things compulsary! Don't be afraid to offend! Live by those words!

At least this doesn't effect the sale of warships and subs which I rely on.

My nation already has strict gun regulations. Well not for everybody that is...

Blah blah blah...I'm not even a U.N. member but, you know what- I'm actually for this legislation now...Why? BECAUSE MY NATION WANTS TO FIGHT WITH KNIVES...AND SPOOOOOONS!!!

VIVA LA SPOON ASSAULT TACTIC 28: GET 'EM IN THE EYES!

Come to this site and yell at me:
http://s2.invisionfree.com/The_North_Pacific/index.php?s=5f7274a18a8f7c3c7d40ac7c41f7c782&showtopic=1398&view=getnewpost

I would like to fight with knives and spoons. I think my nation would be good at it.

Indeed. The category was checked out by a mod. The important thing to realise is that this proposal wouldn't cut government spending on weapons, but would require military spending to implement.
This is a dead horse (moot) by now but I'm not convinced by this claim, or the argument that "The category was checked out by a mod."


In the resolution the only portions that might need possible increases in police and/or military funding are:

“…ENCOURAGES the establishment of national programmes to combat the illicit transfer of small arms and ensure the collection thereof…”

“…ensure responsibility for all small arms held and issued by the state and create measures for tracing such weapons…”

“…and enact, where possible, effective disarmament, demobilization and reintegration programmes, including effective collection, control, storage and destruction of small arms, particularly in post-conflict zones, as well as address the special needs of children affected by armed conflict.”


Does this level of activity really justify the significant "boosting [of] police and military budgets" worldwide?


Just because the mods didn't think there was some egregious contradiction involved in the category choice doesn't mean there couldn't be serious disagreement about which category is the best fit.

And it certainly doesn't mean that the opinions of nations who object on principle to such "significant worldwide increases in military budgets " are to be discounted out of hand.


Inherent Amelioration

*hears the final whinnies* Hmmm, too late for your stats. My appologies. However, the draft was posted here for several days before submission and you never had anything to say about it at that point. Snooze... lose... synonymous much? I love how no one ever has constructive criticism until it's actually at vote. At any rate, nominations are now being taken for the committee articulated in paragraph 2.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3156330

If you really think it's a good idea despite whatever it does to your stats, then get on board with the summit RP and try to live a little outside your stats consideration box.

The illustrious minister from Galdago has been quite successful in getting his resolution passed, despite some dissension regarding the category near the end of discussion. When I withdrew my vote, it was with full knowledge that this resolution would pass anyway. The votes were already in. RP-wise, however, and due to the fact that stats are a part of the character of a nation and therefore of RP, I had to vote against the resolution.

What bothers me is that while the esteemed representative from Galdago argues about nations being overly concerned with stats and seems to preach for taking a more RP stance, it seems that he can not allow himself to RP diplomacy. Tut tut to your "final whinnies" comments which come off as sore losing and childish playground antics.

I applaud the writing of this resolution and Galdago's work on the part of this distinguished union of nations, but I come here today to implore an end to such a lack of diplomacy and rudeness.

To continue a diplomatic discourse, it is sometimes required to be brutally honest and so I brutally and honestly request a good, hard look at what it means to be a good winner, a diplomatic winner. I will not respond to any flame directed my way for speaking the truth. To sum up: good job on writing this resolution, bad job on being undiplomatic and rude, and now that I have said my peace, I shall close my mouth and guard my borders.

Edit: Also, I don't want to take away from Galdago's message about the committee created by this resolution, so if you wish to be considered for that committee, remember to visit this link:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3156330

Neuropica: The whinnies comment was re: "this is a dead horse." My pompousness didn't start until later, namely with "Hmmmmm." I just have little patience for people that would pooh pooh a resolution after it's far too late when there was ample opportunity to look to correcting some of this by taking an active interest in the threads entitled "Draft:." Some people are kind enough to post the proposals in order to be certain that they are agreeable to all. After certain individuals manage to not only avoid doing this as well as continue to diminish the aims of the resolution after it has been dually passed by insiting on its "overzealous effects on our nation's statistics," my ability to parse myself diplomactically at 3:13 AM becomes increasingly diminished.

There's very little in the way of diplomatic discourse here (re: di meaning two) and more of a series of monologues by ideologues, I on my RP cloud raining down bolts of "get over your stats" and others minding the business of their national ratings store. However, if people are honestly concerned about their national stats, the last, worst place to put a nation is in the throes of the UN proposal system. That's just asking for it. The best way to keep tabs on that sort of thing is to leave it up to decisions on issues, not leave it at the mercy of UN diplomats like Mr. Isaac Saerens, the Galdagan Consul to the UN.

At any rate, I apologize for coming off haughty but I don't see any of this ex-post-facto complaining to be useful. If it's desired to prevent this sort of thing before it happens, one would do well to pay more attention to the "Draft" threads. It'll save a lot of arguing about resolution effects on stats.