NationStates Jolt Archive

The Republic of servakia proposes a stiffer penalty for crimes where it is evident that it was commited as an act of pregidous or hate against another's race or ethnicity. This includes but is not limited to:
Hate killings
Cross burning
Swastica grafiti
the wearing of white pointed hoods and white suits in public
Etc.

Well?? would you vote for it??

Of course not.

Aside from the fact that it is impossible for a third party to objectively prove one's motives for committing a certain act, one should be punished solely for what he does, not why he does it.

It is my understanding that crimes that happen within a nations internationally recognized borders is an issue for that nation to legislate on. It is also my understanding that international crimes of this nature fall under the term 'war crimes' and are dealt with as such. I do not believe it is the responsibility of the international community to legislate the definition of crimes for individual nations, anymore then it is the responsibility of the international community to provide for the law-enforcement community which would be required to enforce those laws.

Our crimes are treated the same way no matter what the motive simply because we can't prove it.

Also swastikas don't just represent Nazis and pointy hoods can keep the rain out of your eyes.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

This is a very selective choice of Hate Crimes.

The Republic of servakia proposes a stiffer penalty for crimes where it is evident that it was commited as an act of pregidous or hate against another's race or ethnicity. This includes but is not limited to:
Hate killings
Cross burning
Swastica grafiti
the wearing of white pointed hoods and white suits in public
Etc.

Well?? would you vote for it??

And i think it is very discernable as to motive for any given crime

The Republic of servakia proposes a stiffer penalty for crimes where it is evident that it was commited as an act of pregidous or hate against another's race or ethnicity. This includes but is not limited to:
Hate killings
Cross burning
Swastica grafiti
the wearing of white pointed hoods and white suits in public
Etc.

Well?? would you vote for it??

And i think it is very discernable as to motive for any given crime

South Park did a good critique of hate crime legislation. "If you're gonna hurt someone, you'd better make damn sure they're the same color as you!" And as for cross burning and swastica grafiti, that's freedom of speech brotha.

It has been my brief but very clear understanding that crimes are not typically commited because you like the person. I'm sorry, but I can't vote for that.

I don't think I can vote for it either. It just don't seem typical.

It is the position of Nutballistan that "Hate Crimes" must be clearly defined, before any vote can take place in favor or against legislation with respect to "Hate Crimes."

Marxinapolis, the episode of South Park did an excellend job of explaining the weakness of trying to legislate hate-crime penalties.

For those who didn't see this fantastic episode, ANY crime is a hate crime. If a man defaces government property, it is because he dislikes the government. It is lamentable that somebody would use something so arbitrary as race as what determines against whom he or she commits a crime, but all a crime is is a physical manifestation of hate. I'm sure there are opposing examples, but I can't think of any at the moment...

I would like to voice my agreement with the 'South Park' episode.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

Catholic Europe already has very strict hate crime punishments and so we would vote yes in order for this to be repeated in other countries.

If you're going to commit first degree murder, that is, a premeditated murder commited with malice and aforethought, it seems obvious to me that you hate them already. After all, you killed them.

However, it is indeed impossible to prove exactly why you killed someone, or what process your brain chemistry went through during the act. The same stands for all crimes, really. As for your examples, we agree with the sentiments expressed by Marxinapolis. Just because you don't like the message doesn't mean you're allowed to silence it.

Sincerely yours,
Daniel M. Hillaker
Minister of Foreign Affairs

all niggers should burn in hell :o

all niggers should burn in hell :o

We strongly support free speech in my country. When it comes to crimes of violence, we could support legislation of this type, but not when it would address clothing and symbols, especially ones that have religious and cultural significance like the swastika does to Buddhism, Hinduism, and certain Native American groups.

Unlike a murder for revenge, a hate crime murder does not remove the stimulus. Hate criminals remain a danger to society, and their victims aren’t likely to have foreknowledge to protect themselves. The scenario is different from straightforward violent crimes, which usually result from passion of the moment or careful planning — these should be treated as a different crime, if just so that the treatment aspect of sentencing be different.

We strongly support free speech in my country. When it comes to crimes of violence, we could support legislation of this type, but not when it would address clothing and symbols, especially ones that have religious and cultural significance like the swastika does to Buddhism, Hinduism, and certain Native American groups.

All of the above is true, but in our observation, these groups are disinclined to spray-paint swastikas on Jewish gravestones, nor are they generally inclined to set a cross on fire and lynch someone because of the color of their skin.

Unlike a murder for revenge, a hate crime murder does not remove the stimulus. Hate criminals remain a danger to society, and their victims aren’t likely to have foreknowledge to protect themselves. The scenario is different from straightforward violent crimes, which usually result from passion of the moment or careful planning — these should be treated as a different crime, if just so that the treatment aspect of sentencing be different.

This description appears to fit the description of "Hate Crimes" exactly. Murder, or other crimes commited simply as a message of the rejection of diversity of the ethnicity of a given nation, a given city, and so on.

Nutballistan will vote in favor of legislation that increases the level of prosecution of crimes of this type.

We here at Baschhum feel that anything to discorage the small but noisily vocal Hatemongers out there is a step in the right direction.

Flogging in Public Square is preferable.

Aren't all cases of murder based on hate?

-----------------------------------------
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Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
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Aren't all cases of murder based on hate?

No, if they are the same colour as you are only trying to get them into heaven so it is more of a love crime.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Sarcastic New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

All of the above is true, but in our observation, these groups are disinclined to spray-paint swastikas on Jewish gravestones,
This is vandalism.
nor are they generally inclined to set a cross on fire and lynch someone because of the color of their skin.
This is abuse.

Why is it more of a crime if it has a different motivation?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?
Meet The Reps (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132588)

Aren't all cases of murder based on hate?

What about accidental murder?

Aren't all cases of murder based on hate?

What about accidental murder?

Isn´t that manslaughter or something then? Or death by guilt (pardon my Dutch)

Anyway, people can murder out of fear, desperation, (indeed) compassion, greed, lust and probably several other emotions too.

If an individual has a previous history of "hate speech" and "targets" people of a certain ethnicity to commit a crime against them, I see that as clear evidence of a "hate crime" :x . The problem of motive in that sort of case is rather clear, however, no one can truly read another mind. Asking a jury to be "mind readers" is impossible :? . btw, american indians hated germany for what they believed was stealing the symbol of their bird of peace and using it for war, refering to the swastika. Just something to mentaly chew on :wink: .