NationStates Jolt Archive

In order to improve living conditions in member nations, the PRoGG has seen it fit to re-submit the minimum wage proposal, with a few minor modifications.

Minimum Wage

A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Groot Gouda

Description:
The United Nations,

NOTING WITH REGRET that many people in the world suffer from malnutrition and poor living conditions,

AFFIRMING that every person should be able to live in humane conditions,

NOTING FURTHER that employers have absolute control over wages in many corporate controlled nations,

RECOGNIZING the work of unions to provide fairer pay and working conditions,

EMPHASIZING that there are situations where a person is unable to earn a full wage to sustain themself and their family, which may be beyond their control,

HAVING CONSIDERED that the standard of living varies accross countries,

RESOLVES to do the following:

1. URGES all member states to implement a minimum wage for all citizens, whether employed or unemployed
2. DECLARES that a minimum wage shall enable a person to afford, OR consists of: food, shelter, healthcare and education for the person earning the wage, and all supported members of that person's household unable to support themselves.
3. EMPHASIZES that the minimum wage should be a minimum to survive, but shall contain no luxury beyond the minimum subsistence level.
4. REQUESTS but does not oblige that member nations take action to ensure that any corporation that is traded with from outside the UN pays their labourers a minimum wage.

No moral, correctly-run nation would ever THINK about interfering in what is a private agreement between employee and employer.

This idea of yours is absolutely despicable.

No moral, correctly-run nation would ever THINK about interfering in what is a private agreement between employee and employer.

Don't you ever get sick of that line?

i'm afraid it'll be used as an excuse to limit wage to minimum, or to set the minimum wage at a ridiculous level.

good intention. bad idea.

No moral, correctly-run nation would ever THINK about interfering in what is a private agreement between employee and employer.

Don't you ever get sick of that line?

No, because it's true.

No reason to get sick of the truth.

good intention. bad idea.
Bad intention, bad idea.

As the CEO of Psychotropican Unarium Industries has said "Keep the bloody UN out of our company!"

Why should unemployed people get wage?

Why should unemployed people get wage?

They shouldn't... it makes atlas shrug :P

Why should unemployed people get wage?

well, they must have money to pay some beer and cigs!
seriously, they should have a serious restriction on what they do with money that governement give to unemployes people

Why should unemployed people get wage?

well, they must have money to pay some beer and cigs!
seriously, they should have a serious restriction on what they do with money that governement give to unemployes people

Or stop using tax money to give to people.

We should call this proposal the "right to live act".

-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
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Why should unemployed people get wage?

To prevent them from starving, which is not a good condition in which they could find another job - if they are fit to work anyway.

As it is stated in the resolution text, a minimum wage is a *minimum*. It is not meant as a luxury, because you want people to work. And, because of the wording of this resolution, a government or company can also decide to offer shelter, food, healthcare and education directly, instead of money.

No moral, correctly-run nation would ever THINK about interfering in what is a private agreement between employee and employer.

This idea of yours is absolutely despicable.

No moral, correctly-run nation would let its citizens starve. *That* is despicable.

This proposal furthemore stops companies from offering an absolute minimum wage, because nobody would want to work for them. So it will also improve conditions for labourers. By offering better circumstances and/or higher wages, you get happy workers and so higher productivity. And, by earning more, they can spend more - which will be on luxury goods, which have a higher profit margin than basic goods.

But of course, I won't have to explain this to a capitalist nation, because they will have understood from the beginning that this proposal will either do very little (if circumstances are already good), or only positive things, so it's a win-win situation.

Regards,

UN Ambassador of the PRoGG.

We should call this proposal the "right to live act".

I had considered that, but in the end I decided on 'Minimum Wage' because that was more clear and directly about what it was about.

No moral, correctly-run nation would let its citizens starve. *That* is despicable.

It is not a state "letting" a man starve per se, it is a state allowing it's citizens to decide their own destiny. Think of 2 men, the first man works hard his entire life... good grades in school, studies intensly for university, lands a good job, and never asks for a handout. The second man goofed off, had fun through school and did not apply himself, decides not to work and becomes a bum and a parasite on society. Why should any state take money from a decent, hard working citizen (first man example) and give it to the bum (second man example) ? That IS unjust.

Allow people to suffer or benefit from their own decisions. To rob from the productive and give to the parasites is entirely unjustified.

Unless of course you enjoy punishing success and rewarding failure....

No moral, correctly-run nation would let its citizens starve. *That* is despicable.

It is not a state "letting" a man starve per se, it is a state allowing it's citizens to decide their own destiny. Think of 2 men, the first man works hard his entire life... good grades in school, studies intensly for university, lands a good job, and never asks for a handout. The second man goofed off, had fun through school and did not apply himself, decides not to work and becomes a bum and a parasite on society. Why should any state take money from a decent, hard working citizen (first man example) and give it to the bum (second man example) ? That IS unjust.

Now think of a third man (or woman). Born in a poor neighbourhood. Parents not too bright, working in a factory all their life. Tried education, but didn't have the brains. Factory closed. Out of a job for a few years. No company wants him (or her). Should we let that person starve?

Think of all the people who get unemployed, and there are no jobs for them because the economy is going bad. Perhaps they could find another job, but to be able to do so, they'll have to follow education, they need money for food and shelter. Which nobody, except the government, will give them.

Now think of another person, who works hard, has a family to support, but the factory where he works doesn't pay him enough to support that family.

People should make their own decisions, yes, and benefit or suffer from them. But no to the extent where there lives are in jeopardy. And they should certainly not suffer from decisions of *other* people.

By calling people who are unable to support themselves through circumstances beyond their control "parasites" is generalising in a despicable way. Believing that every person can make their own destiny is a dream that only the upper classes can make come true. For all the other people, being born in the wrong street is enough to turn that dream into a nightmare.

And *that* is why we need a minimum wage. Not because we want people to parasite (as if they would - it's a *minimum* wage, for deity's sake!), but because sometimes, some people, are unable to *be* that "honest, hard-working person".

Regards,

UN Ambassador of the PRoGG

It is not the responsibility of the state to provide for the lives of its citizens--to claim that is is to profess a belief in the moral propriety of slavery.

The responsibility of the state is simply to enforce contracts and protect its citizens from fraud and violence. Beyond that, nada.

It is not the responsibility of the state to provide for the lives of its citizens--to claim that is is to profess a belief in the moral propriety of slavery.

The responsibility of the state is simply to enforce contracts and protect its citizens from fraud and violence. Beyond that, nada.

RESOLVES to do the following:

1. URGES all member states to implement a minimum wage for all citizens, whether employed or unemployed
2. DECLARES that a minimum wage shall enable a person to afford, OR consists of: food, shelter, healthcare and education for the person earning the wage, and all supported members of that person's household unable to support themselves.
3. EMPHASIZES that the minimum wage should be a minimum to survive, but shall contain no luxury beyond the minimum subsistence level.
4. REQUESTS but does not oblige that member nations take action to ensure that any corporation that is traded with from outside the UN pays their labourers a minimum wage.


1. Sets up a situation where as the living conditions in various nations will cause resentment in other individual nations. Such a situation could cause mass immigration and civil disorder in said nations. This will not increase anyones standard of living.

Secondly, the first clause of this proposal advocates a minimum wage "whether employed or unemployed ". Volintary unemployment would soar as national infrastructures crumble to dust.

2. This clause opens up the possibilities for a national involuntary social security when combined with the first clause. Such a situation would quickly drain and bankrupt even the most wealthy nation, poorer nation would fall over-night. The end result is a world in chaos.

3. Clause three effectively dooms all industries of luxury to oblivion. The number of industrious individuals willing to earn more then the national minimum wage would not be enough to off set the loss of profit these industries would experience.

As stated before this proposal sets the stage for nations and corporations to standardize all wages to the mandated minimum wage, irregardless of an individual employees training, experience, or position.

For these reasons The Confederacy of Alphared could never and will never support this proposal.

His Holiness the Governor-General is dismayed by the poor wording and improper atitudes expressed in this proposed resolution.

His Holiness expresses objection at the term `wage' in the first article. A `wage', by common reckoning, is `payment for labour performed'. The unemployed - by definition! - are not eligible for any type of `wage'.

The Dominion of North East Cathanistan, a free enterprise state, is known for her complete lack of social welfare programs and a complete lack of social inequity. His Holiness, and The Triumviri of Industry of The Dominion of North East Cathanistan assert the latter is implied by the former. The only unemployed in The Dominion of North East Cathanistan are also unemployable, yet even the invalid do not starve despite The Dominion's complete lack of social welfare programs. His Holiness the Governor-General suggests nations composed only of the lazy should solve their problems rather than impose their problems on other nations.

His Holiness considers the above proposal as a thinly veiled insult to all honourable free-enterprise nations, implying they are incapable of supporting the needs of her citizens, and thus exporting and inciting revolutions to United Nations members under the protections of `Rights and Duties of UN States', violating the spirit of Section II but remaining within the letter. Such duplicitous acts should be considered despicable by all nations with honour.

His Holiness asserts no nation is above her own laws. The Dominion of North East Cathanistan considers lawful agreements reached between her citizens sacred and therefore shall not interfere. Adopting such a policy would subvert the common trust held sacred by both the people and His Holiness, disenfranchising the working majority which have made The Dominion of North East Cathanistan the liberators of all Cathanistani peoples.

His Holiness closes with a dire warning. No privately held corporation or proprietorship is as capable of as much wrong-doing as even the smallest of governments. If this resolution is adopted an aristocratic minority will form within the agencies of the sponsoring government, and oppress and extort the very same peoples they are charged to protect.

[signed]
Alderman-Major Thomas Abaizad of The Triumviri of Industry of The Dominion of North East Cathanistan

[signed]
Mayor-Captain Walid Stevens of The Maximum Veracity Directorate of The Dominion of North East Cathanistan, Consul of Law & Order to His Holiness the Governor-General of The Dominion of North East Cathanistan

[signed]
The Bishop Khalid O'Brien, Consul of Religion & Spirituality to His Holiness the Governor-General of The Dominion of North East Cathanistan