NationStates Jolt Archive

International Scientific Expo (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/03473/page=display_nation/page=UN_proposal1)

A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.
*
Category: Free Trade
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Heshlon

Description: REAFFIRMING the standardization of systems as laid out in UN Proposals “DVD Region Removal”, “Metric System”, and “UCPL”,

NOTING FURTHER that goals of Scientific Freedoms have been adopted by this august body,

TAKING INTO ACCOUNT the recognized need for the citizens of NationStates to protect their environment,

1. CALLS UPON constituent nations to select, in a manner befitting their form of government, a panel of representative scientists,

2. RECOMMENDS that said scientists come together at an International Scientific Exposition held annually,

3. DESIGNATES said Exposition to focus upon solving global environmental concerns,

4. FURTHER INVITES said scientists to share knowledge, compete, or boast about other scientific advances,

5. TRUSTING that many nations will want to sponsor said Exposition; no UN funding being expected nor required,

6. AUTHORIZES regional delegates to vote upon the region to host said Exposition, and representatives from winning region to vote/select specific hosting nation

7. FURTHER TRUSTING winning nation to provide sufficient accommodations, appropriate security, and utmost respect for selected scientists and accompanying supporters

7.1. NOTING that while winning nation provides amenities stated in clause 7, they are to be paid for by attending nations as befitting their social and/or economic comfort level

7.2. FURTHER AUTHORIZES the organizing of a council of security inspectors, consisting of regional delegates or appointed proxies, to study and evaluate the security precautions set up by the winning nation

7.3. FURTHER NOTING that said security council authorized in clause 7.2 is jointly responsible, along with winning nation, for the actions and conduct of the winning nation in relation to the safety of the scientists and public attending the Exposition

8. SOLEMNLY AFFIRMS the founding of NationStates International Scientific Exposition.


Heshloni Ambassador

We thought this sounded good before.

We think this still sounds good.

Of course, we intend to be among the winners!

I dont see how does an expo serve to reduce the barriers in free commerce since no legitimate transfer of knowledge or information will occur, nor why should state money be involved in this. As projects such as these tend to be more efficient in private hands, I say leave this to companies.

Vacant Planets, the category has, previously, caused a great deal of debate already... Do you have a better category to place it in?

And secondly, what do you mean by "legitimate transfer of knowledge or information"?

Third, why do you assume that private enterprise is better at solving global environmental concerns than a representative panel of scientists?

Fourth, state money is involved on a voluntary basis; some governments value knowledge and are already spending an extraordinary amount of money on scientific progress.

Fifth, as participation is voluntary (unless I'm misreading somewhere along the line), why not allow those of us who have no private enterprise the ability to participate in a Science Expo?

Excuse the abrasiveness, but if you have no objection to the resolution, then why oppose it? If you choose to not participate, then it has no affect on your nation.

By the way, if it wasn't obvious, Gethamane is behind this proposal.
And the panel from Collaboration shouldn't be so sure of victory ;)

The Council of Enn heartily supports this concept, and know that they will be among the winners.

After a hearty discussion on the topic of deja-vu, the Sophistan delegation has decided to voice its support again. Woosh, the sound of support flying at your proposal.

Sincerely yours,
Daniel M. Hillaker
Minister of Foreign Affairs

Vacant Planets, the category has, previously, caused a great deal of debate already... Do you have a better category to place it in?

Sorry I am not familiar with all the categories, I haven't read up to that part in the UN FAQ. isn't there something for technology or social development or something?

And secondly, what do you mean by "legitimate transfer of knowledge or information"?

Considering intellectual property, a legitimate transfer of scientific knowledge and information that serves an economic porpouse occurs only when the person holding those rights release them in favor of third parties through contract or donation or any other form of property transder.

So anything that shown in the expo cannot be reproduced, copyed, sold, etc etc without the consent of the relevant parties. So in reality you are not gaining much.

Third, why do you assume that private enterprise is better at solving global environmental concerns than a representative panel of scientists?

Because they MUST make a profit out of it and find the most eficient ways to recieve an economic return from it. While a panel of scientist under goverment financing will never have enough incentive to work because they wont face serious personal economic difficulties (they get their money for free) nor they'll be able to be objective enough for the priority projects.

Fourth, state money is involved on a voluntary basis; some governments value knowledge and are already spending an extraordinary amount of money on scientific progress.

Goverments dont have enough incentive to invest in such programs, and when they do invest there are no incentives to properly use that money, and so it leads to corruption, and since the resolution doesn't talk about any finance protection and guarantees it can be thought that the money will go to waste.

Fifth, as participation is voluntary (unless I'm misreading somewhere along the line), why not allow those of us who have no private enterprise the ability to participate in a Science Expo?

I guess that if in your nation the only allowed company is the state itself (like Communist or some right-winged dictatorships and such), there should be no problem on them investing in such project.

Excuse the abrasiveness, but if you have no objection to the resolution, then why oppose it? If you choose to not participate, then it has no affect on your nation.

For the most part, I never 100% oppose a resolution, but I always try to give suggestions to make the resolution as flawless as it should be and ask for more details in it's functioning.

Considering intellectual property, a legitimate transfer of scientific knowledge and information that serves an economic porpouse occurs only when the person holding those rights release them in favor of third parties through contract or donation or any other form of property transder.

Well - and correct us if we've got this wrong - we were under the impression that discoveries in nature, which is what most scientific advances are, can't be the subject of intellectual property. [OOC: In the real world, anyway. In NS, we have a universal UN copyright law which hasn't actually been defined, so who knows what can and can't be copyrighted?]

So pure scientific knowledge can be shared freely at this expo [OOC: which is what scientists tend to do in the real world anyway].

What can be protected by IP laws are inventions or processes - you can't patent a drug, for instance, as it's a discovery in nature, only the process by which the drug is made. And scientists can feel free to bring along their newest inventions, just to boast about them.

Fifth, as participation is voluntary (unless I'm misreading somewhere along the line), why not allow those of us who have no private enterprise the ability to participate in a Science Expo?

I guess that if in your nation the only allowed company is the state itself (like Communist or some right-winged dictatorships and such), there should be no problem on them investing in such project.

Gethamane's point was that your first post seemed to suggest that you didn't think state-run scientific concerns should be present at the expo:
As projects such as these tend to be more efficient in private hands, I say leave this to companies.

EDIT: If you want to see all the possible proposal categories, go to the Submitting a Proposal screen and look on the drop-down menu:
http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/99555/page=UN_new_proposal
Free Trade seems the nearest, since the effect of a Free Trade proposal is to improve your nation's economy and pooling scientific knowledge should have all kinds of spin-off economic benefits for all.

Considering intellectual property, a legitimate transfer of scientific knowledge and information that serves an economic porpouse occurs only when the person holding those rights release them in favor of third parties through contract or donation or any other form of property transder.

Well - and correct us if we've got this wrong - we were under the impression that discoveries in nature, which is what most scientific advances are, can't be the subject of intellectual property. [OOC: In the real world, anyway. In NS, we have a universal UN copyright law which hasn't actually been defined, so who knows what can and can't be copyrighted?]

So pure scientific knowledge can be shared freely at this expo [OOC: which is what scientists tend to do in the real world anyway].

What can be protected by IP laws are inventions or processes - you can't patent a drug, for instance, as it's a discovery in nature, only the process by which the drug is made. And scientists can feel free to bring along their newest inventions, just to boast about them.

Exactly... and if you if you think about it, you'd realize the larger majority of scientific advances come under inventions and processes, rarely because of discoveries, and sometimes even the discoveries involve must have inventions or processes. So legally, it would be a nightmare.

And, I think that if a state is willing to place it's money, by all means it should, but I dont think it should be a state-funded project, at all.

We maintain our support for this proposal.

Sax Russell
Speaker for Science

Exactly... and if you if you think about it, you'd realize the larger majority of scientific advances come under inventions and processes, rarely because of discoveries, and sometimes even the discoveries involve must have inventions or processes. So legally, it would be a nightmare.

Again, a participating nation is not required to show anything other than what they choose. No one will force any nation to reveal any secrets of inventions, processes, etc. The Expo would simply be a forum for exchanging any knowledge the participating governments wishes to share. There would be no legality issues involved - "Here is a bit of technology/information/whatever that we are willing to share with you."

Or it could be something like: "Look we just made a rat from the genetic material from two female rats! Betcha you can't do that!"

And, I think that if a state is willing to place it's money, by all means it should, but I dont think it should be a state-funded project, at all.

Okay...so you don't agree that the state should fund scientific endeavors, or they shouldn't fund the Expo?

If it's the first, well individual governments can spend their money how they like no matter what we of other nations may think. If it's the second case, no nation would be forced to host the Expo and nations are perfectly in their right to spend no money on the Expo by not sending anyone.

Heshloni Ambassador