NationStates Jolt Archive

This proposal is currently up for approval:
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Sanctions Against Usury

Usury is defined as the practice of lending money and charging the borrower interest, especially at an exorbitant or illegally high rate. It has been condemned by all major religions, and has been shown to be a root cause of income disparity and oppression.

Therefore, the Utopian Vision of the Rainbow Tribe, representing the Region of Albia, proposes economic sanctions on nations practising usury. The sanctions shall take the form of tariffs on exports to UN member nations in the proportion of the highest interest rate charged within that nation. The tariffs shall also apply to services performed in one nation for any commercial or economic entity in another; this tariff amount shall be determined by applying the vendor country's highest interest rate to the value of the goods or services if performed in the customer nation, by citizens of that nation compensated at a fair wage.
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Please give it your consideration. Thank you.

Hmmm, I have to stand against this proposal (At this time) for several reasons. Listed below in my usual "parrot" fashion.

Usury is defined as the practice of lending money and charging the borrower interest, especially at an exorbitant or illegally high rate. It has been condemned by all major religions, and has been shown to be a root cause of income disparity and oppression.

Sounds like my bank, first off, :wink:

Hmmm, me-thinks "condemned by all major religions" is not the best argument, religions are very subjective things, and in that regard are no more then a specific, usually very specific, rules to living life. I find it strange, we all seem to live in societies involving an economy, yet it seems to me to keep an economy running for all, we need such evils as money-lenders. And these reliions more often then not exist in these economies. Feels like chopping off the left hand with the right, when you need the lefft hand to help the right hand lift and lower the axe, so to speak, errr ...

But hell, I'm atheist, so I won't pretend to understand them anyway, :wink:

Therefore, the Utopian Vision of the Rainbow Tribe, representing the Region of Albia, proposes economic sanctions on nations practising usury.

Hmmm, I sense looming difficulties. Might I say, you seem to be planning to punish the nation for the act of the citizen. Or do you only argue against that of the nation practicing rather then a citizen or group of?

The sanctions shall take the form of tariffs on exports to UN member nations in the proportion of the highest interest rate charged within that nation.

Past Law Contradiction Alert ! :wink:

You see, tariffs I've always thought of as ... taxes? And the U.N. is not allowed to lay down taxes on nations. Its done and done. But this hinges on said tariffs being taxes I know. I should get up and find a dictionary. Might I add it sounds llike you could be suggesting ...

The tariffs shall also apply to services performed in one nation for any commercial or economic entity in another; this tariff amount shall be determined by applying the vendor country's highest interest rate to the value of the goods or services if performed in the customer nation, by citizens of that nation compensated at a fair wage.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is setting of bells in my head now. This is like saying, if a national bank charge'th so much, we all charge them that on top of the price of goods & services. For the good of the nations own citizenry right?

Economics I claim most honestly are never to have been nor maybe never will be, my forte, but this, even to me, smells a trifle fishy. Could the author maybe make some detail on the vague bits, you know, whats a high rate? Specifics regarding also the entities you claim against, are you only targeting nations... Just asking for detail really.

Any-hoo,

- The Rep of Komokom, Region Minister of Stuff.

I like your method, and, get ready for it Komokom... I totally agree with you on this.

What's to high? Too low and people will be tempted to borrow so much they won't beable to pay it back, Too high and the lender won't get the business.

Well... it seems that the damned are now ice skating on the river styx.... as I also must agree with the representative of Komkom :)

Sounds like my Bank as well.

What ever happened to the good old "If they charge too much, go somewhere else," method? I really hope you don't intend to ban the charging of interest completely -- doing that is an excellent way to permanently destroy the lending industry, which will in turn prevent quite a few large incidental purchases like houses or facilities for small businesses, which in turn will deal a staggering blow to the groups it would seem that you're trying to aid.

This proposal is absolutely despicable. The fact that your government can hold such beliefs is indicative of its (dis)regard for individual rights in general.

The nation of Kutzicopia will not tolerate usary. Anyone condoning this oppression of the impoverished, should be condemned and dealt with swiftly. I will support any other nation in its effort to rid the world of this evil. Until we abolish currency humanity cannot progress to a stage of social evolution, where all humanity focuses on the betterment of each other rather than the incessent need to be better than our fellow man. :evil:

Until we abolish currency humanity cannot progress to a stage of social evolution, where all humanity focuses on the betterment of each other rather than the incessent need to be better than our fellow man.

Not really. The profit motive has existed far longer than currency has. Currency is actually quite beneficial to society; it allows for more precise quantification and trade and also allows for people to "store" their labor. What do I mean? Well, without currency, the only method of trade is bartering -- say, I'll give you a sack of potatoes in exchange for that nice jacket you're selling. But bartering in that sense has several problems; not all potatoes are the same and potatoes (and plants in general) are not always in season. Since the potatoes will spoil in a given amount of time, their worth drops with time, and so the farmer is, quite probably, forced to accept poor deals rather than losing the value of his potatoes; with currency, he can sell the potatoes for money and spend the money at will.

Not really. The profit motive has existed far longer than currency has. Currency is actually quite beneficial to society; it allows for more precise quantification and trade and also allows for people to "store" their labor. What do I mean? Well, without currency, the only method of trade is bartering -- say, I'll give you a sack of potatoes in exchange for that nice jacket you're selling. But bartering in that sense has several problems; not all potatoes are the same and potatoes (and plants in general) are not always in season. Since the potatoes will spoil in a given amount of time, their worth drops with time, and so the farmer is, quite probably, forced to accept poor deals rather than losing the value of his potatoes; with currency, he can sell the potatoes for money and spend the money at will.

E.g. And since virtually every culture liked gold, gold became a staple currency to act as money, and later on, when financial deals involving great wealth, were required, an no one wants to walk down the street with 5 kilograms of gold ingot on them, they started using bank-notes, England was first at this if I remember. Notes were more like IOU's at first though, the gold existed in vaults of banks or others, and the note was issued by the bank or a respectable (Proper term escapes me) : "gold holder", and signed by the last person to hold the note to show it had been willingly passed on in exchange of some sort, and thus not forged or stolen. Also back in those times, it was far easier to do as gold had a pretty set value, as we all should know, these days the value alters quite easily depending on world events, same as oil, and we tend to rely more on what our government and the stock exchange tells us regarding the value of our money.

Just a little bit of informative. :)

- The Rep of Komokom, MoS.

People are agree-ing with me ? Uh-oh, if hell really has frozen over, then maybe I am in trouble ...

:wink: