NationStates Jolt Archive

Might be a good idea to get a healthy debate going on this one I think.....
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A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.

Category: Human Rights Strength: Strong Proposed by: Hersfold
Description: NOTICING, that the condition of many educational facilities worldwide lack the ability to properly teach thier children, in that:

Classrooms are falling into disrepair;
Teachers are unable to properly educate their students due to poor training:
And, schools do not have sufficent funds to purchase better equipment to replace old, broken and/or out-of-date materials;

SEEING that a student's mental welfare and self-esteem can be greatly improved through extra-curricular activities, which many schools can not afford or do not fund sufficently;

FINDING that the food served in many school cafeterias is not healthy, and tastes revolting besides;

SHOCKED by the fact that many school systems lack sufficent security systems to keep their students safe from dangerous trespassers and, in some cases, themselves;

HEARING that many countries cut the budget for education before anything else to aid funding for other programs;

HAVING PASSED the resolution "Free Education" on August 19th of the year 2003;

AND REALIZING that today's children are tommorrow's future, and without proper education of these children, our future will fail;

THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.

Voting Ends: Fri Apr 9 2004
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Anyway, I'll open the batting on this one....
My primary concern is this:
shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems

Just HOW is this funding going to be obtained? The DSH has always had a long history of providing high standards of education for free at considerable expense to the tax payer, and we are not keen at that being further increased....

We're opposed to this one too. We have a very high standard of free public education which suffers from none of the problems outlined in the resolution.

Like Hirota, we're deeply concerned at where this money is to come from. We don't see why socialist nations should have to pay the cost of capitalizt nations' reckless cost-cutting and short-sighted economic policies.

And we're also unimpressed by the general "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children" tone...

Dunlend would offer that this is another of those standard "feel good" resolutions that hide a darker and more disturbing side. While funding for education is certainly a good thing, we cannot endorse a system by which national, state and local budgetary processes are influenced, if not outright circumvented, by international actors. How can the government enact policy if schools can say, basically, "we don't need your money any more--the UN is funding us. Oh, and by the way, you can shove your curriculum and standards too." The education of the children of Dunlend is the responsibility of Dunlend, not an assortment of other nations. Enacting this sort of resolution unduly undercuts the ability of the state to effectively administer its own society.

On a lighter, but still true, note: who determines whether a student is being taught effectively? what sufficient funds amounts to? at what point a student's wellbeing has been improved? what is tastey and what is not? the actual definition of secure? and lastly what a better learning environment is?

Vote against this resolution not only on the federalism issue, but also on the dangerously vague terminology in it.

I think I'm going to pull this proposal apart a little now:
SHOCKED by the fact that many school systems lack sufficent security systems to keep their students safe from dangerous trespassers and, in some cases, themselves

This for a start is complete rubbish. First of all, having had a look at the Child protection Act, it says States Parties shall take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the minor from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent(s), legal guardian(s)d or any other person(s)

This includes schools. So no, schools are actually safe already, they have protection and are very safe already thank you!

FINDING that the food served in many school cafeterias is not healthy, and tastes revolting besides

So WHO decided that? :roll: Plus, I would argue that poor quality food would go against the child protection act, so is already covered.

Given that a multitude of non profit organizations and individual government entities already exist with the sole purpose of fulfilling the functions outlined in this resolution (OOC-see RW example http://www.fundsnetservices.com/internat.htm ) and given that this independent humanitarian infrastructure allows individual nations in need to choose whether or not to allow themselves to be influenced by the ideologies of the contributing organization, the Republic of Boogidyloo makes known their intention to vote no on this resolution.

Henrietta Chapman
Minister of Frogs
Boogidyloo

DP

DP

Not only is this resolution needlessly invasive - there's only so much UN interference in national affairs that should be tolerated - it also adds nothing of substance to past resolutions. The world of "classrooms...falling into disrepair" that it describes bears no resemblance to the Ecopoeian education system. The language is unnecessarily sensationalist.

Ecopoeia votes 'no'.

Michel Duval
Speaker for Education

i disagree with this proposal on several grounds, namely

1.
why should countries pay for other countries underspending in education (money that may well have been diverted to their military)
2.
why should i be forced to provide hard earned tax monies when I will have no say in ensuring that the money is well spent and not squandered?
3.
what will the teachers be trained in .... what political slant will the world authority train our teachers ... could this be a ploy for the UN teaching to be used to undermine a country's political and social system

This is not a nation states proposal ... it is a nanny-state proposal.

i implore everyone to vote against this proposal that interferes in a countries right to educate its own people the way their citizens want to be educated.

this resolution would impede on the soverignty of all nations. no one would be able to say no to this education committee entering their country and messing with the education system. it might be decent to receive a little extra money for our education system, we do not need much. my nation is not going to willingly poor out our pockets for the 3rd world nations with little to no public education. this resolution will only cause problems and does not need to be passed.

Someone needs to pass a Limited UN Authority type of resolution that would put a strict limit on the intrusive powers of the NationStates United Nations into the domestic affairs of individual nations.

I am glad that there are others who also oppose this needless bill. If someone has a problem with their current education system, they should fix it within their own nation and stay out of the affairs of mine. The Republic of Luciferius can take care of it's own education system. We don't need some UN Nanny Police State forcing us into compliance with a resolution that is none of the UN's business in the first place.

The UN should be used primarily for disfussing international disputes between nations or even discusisons on efforts to combat global terrorism and other things that affect the international community. Let the NationStates make their own policies pertaining issues like education.

While it's another noble goal, there are some problems that causes me to vote no.

the last paragraph reads...

"THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one. "

Interesting that the phrase "Problems in our NATION'S educational sytem..." is present. So you're having problems with your education system and want the UN to fix it? That's your nation's problem.

funding is also a problem. the UNEC will provice funding... where is the funding coming from?

How a nation budgets and handles it's education is their problem and their responsibility. If you want to assist in improving education, perhaps a UN Scholarship? but to tell a nation how to teach their youngsters is akin to dictatorship... or at the least UN sticking our collective noses into a nation's business.

Fortuitously the UN will merely be 'provicing' rather than 'providing' the funding - I can only assume that this is why the proposal looks set to become a resolution - 'Provicing' means nothing and we shall have to 'fork out' exactly that. Our noble comrade from Ichi Ni's suggestion of a UN Scholarship is exactly the sort of idea for a resolution which is weakened by the failings of the current proposal.

In America, Federal Funding has destroyed our education system. States become dependent on Federal funds and are forced to accept the strings that come attached to the funds. Mandates, mass beauracracy, and waste on an unimaginable level have immobolized the system. I'm afraid that while this resolution may sound good, it will do the same thing in the NS world. Leave education to a national if not local level. Parents know best what their children should learn. Fund education yes, but do not mandate from the top down what kids will learn. Let the parents and local systems decide what shall be taught.

Unashamed Christians

Locally elected school boards should run local education. They should be responsible for an area not greater than half a county.

Support services, training and necessary policy-making, inclusing cerification of teachers, regulation of intervarsity sports, and academic standards for garduation, should be administered at a state or provincial level.

It is not even a national issue, but a sub-national one.

Sorry. We must vote against this proposal. It's mostly a good idea.... but schools are not responsible for feeding children, parents are!

Locally elected school boards should run local education. They should be responsible for an area not greater than half a county.

Support services, training and necessary policy-making, inclusing cerification of teachers, regulation of intervarsity sports, and academic standards for garduation, should be administered at a state or provincial level.

It is not even a national issue, but a sub-national one.

Also ... we agree 100% with Collaboration :)

No, no, no. We will fight this as hard as we can. It will do nothing whatsoever to improve our already shiny-kickass education system, while introducing sovereignty-breaching UN control.

Most significantly, however, is the mandated introduction of security systems into our schools, funded and controlled by the UN. Personally, our nation has never had security problems in schools. If other nations with awful crime rates and laissez-faire gun laws need to turn their schools into fortresses, let them do it at a national level. We refuse to accept this - and look with scorn on such nations who are going 'ooh! education!' and voting for this proposal without reading the fine print.

Education is among our nation's strongest priorities, which is why we don't want the UN running it.

Is it just me, or is the UN only a few resolutions away from becoming a One World Government?

I agree education is the backcone of our future. I also agree that it is an area that is in need of much attention. I can see where many nations need support and help in these areas. Mainly monetary support. But OI fell that tihis does not belong in the UN and agrre that their are many other organization that can be regional and in the private sector to get involv3ed in this.
Ok so to break it down.

Classrooms are falling into disrepair;
Teachers are unable to properly educate their students due to poor training:
And, schools do not have sufficent funds to purchase better equipment to replace old, broken and/or out-of-date materials;

This is a world wide crisis, even the wealthier nation have problems in this area. For many I think money is not an issue, instead it is a lack of education fo what is needed or the lack of desire of change. REgardless of the outcry from students teachers and parents this is an area that the mass populace and politicians hear the cries yet take very little action on.

SEEING that a student's mental welfare and self-esteem can be greatly improved through extra-curricular activities, which many schools can not afford or do not fund sufficently;
OK I understand the lack of and concern here, yet I feel that this needs to be handled by more than the schools and that their effects in this area are often ineffective. This is an issue that needs to be handled by society and families. The pareants of children need to take more responsibility in their belief system and mental wellness. In this age we can not place the whole burdeen of this on the schools. Also I do not want the schools to further corrupt the mental awareness of children while neglecting their heritige and ways of there ancestors by putting them into cookie cutter molds of what they feel is a helathy frame of mind. I feel the school system could benefit in this area but much care must be made to keep it diverse and non condemning to peoples beliefs.



FINDING that the food served in many school cafeterias is not healthy, and tastes revolting besides;
Well this should be a issue that gets attention. But I feel it should be seperate from the rest of these and put into its own propsal to have a better effect on a good outcome.

SHOCKED by the fact that many school systems lack sufficent security systems to keep their students safe from dangerous trespassers and, in some cases, themselves;

HEARING that many countries cut the budget for education before anything else to aid funding for other programs;

I put these to together for they both are fund related. Security is an issue for more than just our schools. And education budgets seem to get funds depleted and reassigned into security in these times. Both are touch issues and emotional ones that need to have greater attention. But keep in mind to what extent.... Do we want armed guards in our schools to insure the saftey of the students.

THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.
First of all usually commitees are just more governmental redtape. and I feel the statement "which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems" does not state where the funds will come from or how they will be allocated and ther use monitored. There are several things lacking....getting the parents back into involvement in the opperations of their childrens education. THere should be a group of representative students allowed to participate int the commitees actions.
How will the commitee members be chosen and to what diversity. I see this leaning towards the public school system, what about the private schools and the mass populace that now home schools? Also are we talking just your elementaries here are would this also include higher education and adult education?

Over all I feel that this is an area that is in great need of a total revamp! And yes this is a step in the right direction of thinking, yet I feel that as with most proposals it lacks meat and would be a hard one as written to really get anything accomplished. This is an area that is a big undertaking to take on globally. It needs great change on a regional and nation level before the UN and its appointd commitee will have any real effect i feel.

So I guess with the good intentions it had although it has a lot of holes, that at this time I will not support it. I feel this is the fluff and is missing the meat although I still fell this is something that does not belong in the UN, I agree with those above anout the UN becoming a world government, the UN has passed many a proposals that should not have a place in the UN realm and this is anotherone.

I echo the concerns of my fellow delegates and declare that I too have deep reservations about this proposal.

That having been said, it's troubling for me to notice that despite the consistent objections and issues that have been raised on this thread, the resolution is very much up in the votes.

Does anyone even read these posts?

I too was puzzled by that trend. My answer would have to be..."apparently not".

Henrietta Chapman
Minister of Frogs
Boogidyloo

DP

I also agree that changes need to be made in Education and money definitely can help, however there is one issue with this that never seems to get mentioned. Other than a child's parent(s), the two individuals that impact a child's life the most are the child's doctor and teacher. Our society views and values these two differently and I put forth that neither is more or less important. Yet, monetarily educators are not only paid less then doctors, they are paid less then almost all professional and trade workers. This is the injustice that we show our children through all the years they see these "heros" battle to help our children grow. How can we expect better or even more teachers? I don't think so and without changing this perception, more money is just Band-Aide. Doing something about this will make an education career livable and those that have the motivation, won't lose it trying to survive economically. If we are going to expect better teaching, we should show them that their teaching is valued and not do the opposite.

Sincerely,
IT security professional "with an Elem. Ed. Degree"

:!: THE SPONSOR HAS ARRIVED TO ANSWER ALL! :!:

All right - I just found this debate Monday afternoon, and already it had recieved about 20 posts. I am posting this to answer the (many) concerns I have read about. The post directly before this one, from Magicality, had most of the reccurring concerns in it, so I will quote from there. To make it a little easier to read, I have edited out the typos (sorry, magic...). I know this will be long, but bear with me here.

To begin with...



Classrooms are falling into disrepair;
Teachers are unable to properly educate their students due to poor training:
And, schools do not have sufficent funds to purchase better equipment to replace old, broken and/or out-of-date materials;


This is a world wide crisis, even the wealthier nation have problems in this area. For many I think money is not an issue, instead it is a lack of education for what is needed or the lack of desire of change. Regardless of the outcry from students, teachers, and parents this is an area that the mass populace and politicians hear the cries yet take very little action on.


All right, I know Magicality did not say anything in critiscism here, but some others of you did. How do you decide whether or not a teacher is not fullfilling his or her job description? One time-tested method is a student questionare. Word it so the students will not base their
answers on a personal bias, and you will probably find the source of the problem. And as the to rest of that particular excerpt, out-of-date materials and classrooms that are falling apart should be rather obvious.

SEEING that a student's mental welfare and self-esteem can be greatly improved through extra-curricular activities, which many schools can not afford or do not fund sufficently;

OK I understand the lack of and concern here, yet I feel that this needs to be handled by more than the schools and that their effects in this area are often ineffective. This is an issue that needs to be handled by society and families. The parents of children need to take more responsibility in their belief system and mental wellness. In this age we can not place the whole burden of this on the schools. Also I do not want the schools to further corrupt the mental awareness of children while neglecting their heritege and ways of their ancestors by putting them into cookie cutter molds of what they feel is a helathy frame of mind. I feel the school system could benefit in this area but much care must be made to keep it diverse and non condemning to peoples beliefs.


This is not so much, as Magicallity refers to it, cultural well-being, because schools should not have a say in that, but the mental health and self-esteem of a student. The parents of a student will have to help out considerably, I know, but the schools do need to supply a backbone for this kind of support.


FINDING that the food served in many school cafeterias is not healthy, and tastes revolting besides;

Well this should be a issue that gets attention. But I feel it should be separate from the rest of these and put into its own proposal to have a better effect on a good outcome.

I see your point here, but I think we all know that a proposal titled "Better School Food" wouldn't get more than 10 approvals (No offense). Others of you think this is worthless. Have YOU tasted school food recently? I apologize to those who actually work in a school cafeteria, but the food in my area is GROSS. It is hard to believe how this food could be healthy. But seriously, once my brother did pick up an out-dated carton of milk, which had gone quite bad. I have also found several bones in my "chicken" nuggets in the past. If this is to be the standard of food in our schools, something needs to be done. Putting this line in there is the only way I could think of to keep the students from all dying of food poisoning.


SHOCKED by the fact that many school systems lack sufficent security systems to keep their students safe from dangerous trespassers and, in some cases, themselves;

HEARING that many countries cut the budget for education before anything else to aid funding for other programs;

I put these to together for they both are fund related. Security is an issue for more than just our schools. And education budgets seem to get funds depleted and reassigned into security in these times. Both are touch issues and emotional ones that need to have greater attention. But keep in mind to what extent.... Do we want armed guards in our schools to insure the saftey of the students?


:roll: OF COURSE there won't be any armed guards!!!! What I was referring to here was a basic security camera system to see when students cut class and see any intruders - not much more than that.


THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.

First of all usually committees are just more governmental redtape. And I feel the statement "which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems" does not state where the funds will come from or how they will be allocated and their use monitored. There are several things lacking....getting the parents back into involvement in the opperations of their childrens education. There should be a group of representative students allowed to participate in the committees actions.
How will the committee members be chosen and to what diversity. I see this leaning towards the public school system, what about the private schools and the mass populace that now home school? Also are we talking just your elementaries here or would this also include higher education and adult education?

OK - the funding issue... The UN does have a budget. I know this can't be much, but if the UN dedicated, say, 10-20% of said budget to this committee, and sought out ways to improve funding in general, (membership fees? - later proposal) this could have an impact.
A student representative board would be a good idea. They would keep the committee in line, and let them know what to do with their funds.
And finally, all public schools would benefit from this, yes (including upper level), but it could be made so private schools (including colleges and universities) could recieve funding if they applied. Private schools fund themselves, however, so UN assistance would not automatically go to them. As for the homeschoolers, that is a decision made by parents and students, and it is assumed that they can cope with it themselves if they wanted to do that in the first place. Therefore, no UN support.

I hope this answers most of the more pressing issues, but if there are any questions (which I am sure there will be) continue to post here, or you could send me a telegram directly, which would probably be faster, since the forum does not always work. My link is both at the top of this and attached to the resolution. But for now, I hope this changes some of your minds.

Respectfully,
The Federation of Hersfold
UN Delegate, Sponsor of "UN Educational Committee"

The United Brothels of Transexual Vania shall vote against this resolution.

We feel that the United Nations should be used primarily to address issues of a global nature such as international security and free trade, and not to micromanage the domestic affairs of its members.

This resolution, by it's very nature, requires that all UN members institute a socialist monopoly on education. Many nations, however, feel that the best educational facilities arise out of capitalistic competition. Many nations feel that levying taxes on society at-large to fund the education of other people's children is immoral.

Agree or disagree with the policies of these nations, the question remains:

Why is it the UN's duty to impose heavy-handed mandates upon these sovereign nations dictating the manner in which they should educate their citizens?

If you want a well-funded, socialized form of education in your nation, you're free to do so. We believe, however, it is immoral to impose this opinion on the entire community.

Thank you.

Aye, well here's another cynical attempt at self-glorification from a nation that has seen that if the title is right, the legslation will pass.

In the Joccian State education system, the envy of many other countries, we experience none of these 'problems', and neither do any of our friends.

If you want loopholes, we will guarantee to find them.

This proposal was obviously put up by a schoolkid, maybe a whole class of dissatisfied schoolkids. It gives no thought to higher education whatever. If our government has to spend more on education to high school level, we will have to make cuts in higher education - reduction of grants/introduction of tuition fees and etc.

This is not only a pusillanimous attempt at a proposal, it is downright dangerous!

what a joke, they want an education proposal passed but can't spell their right

This is a world wide crisis, even the wealthier nation have problems in this area.

We can't speak for other nations, but Rehochipe has a world-class education system despite our modest economy.

Hersfold: you make many valid points, but all of them are ones suitable for national but not international debate.

I see your point here, but I think we all know that a proposal titled "Better School Food" wouldn't get more than 10 approvals (No offense).

There's probably a reason for that. Tagging unpopular suggestions onto the back of more popular ones is cynical and, if attempted, should rightly detract from that proposal.

Putting this line in there is the only way I could think of to keep the students from all dying of food poisoning.

Assuming, of course, that schools provide food, which ours don't beyond primary level. And assuming that we haven't already found ways to deal with this problem on our own, which we haven't. Your own personal experience is pretty much irrelevant to the entire world.

OF COURSE there won't be any armed guards!!!! What I was referring to here was a basic security camera system to see when students cut class and see any intruders - not much more than that.

But you don't make that clear in the proposal, which is what counts. And even these measures would be pointless in low-crime societies.

OK - the funding issue... The UN does have a budget. I know this can't be much, but if the UN dedicated, say, 10-20% of said budget to this committee, and sought out ways to improve funding in general, (membership fees? - later proposal) this could have an impact.

No we don't. You're thinking of that other UN.
And membership fees are just another attempt at a tax - illegal under UN laws.

:?
We are reading this and other forums to determine our stance on this important issue. Fortunately in our schools the finest food is available if nothing else!

Hersfold has been reknowned for consideration consultation before introducing potential UN resolutions. Obviously this passed enough muster with enough delegates to earn a vote in this body today.

We are in the process of reviewing all comments before casting our vote.

It would be good to see a list of delegates who had earlier approved this proposed resolution in committee.

We are rejecting this proposal not just because of the lack of specifics but because of the concern that having this body trying to fix what may not need fixing.

If the UN thinks that this resolution is going to help anything, then they are dead wrong.

If you look at history, whenever the government gets control of something, the system goes straight down hill. America’s educational system was far better before the government started running it. The ratio of those who can read alone has plummeted. The whole reason Charles Dickens wrote “A Christmas Carol” was to promote the idea that individuals should do something to help charities instead of the government.

If this resolution passes., it will not only be taking more of our countries’ money, but lower our over all education.

Hersfold has been reknowned for consideration consultation before introducing potential UN resolutions. Obviously this passed enough muster with enough delegates to earn a vote in this body today.
It would be good to see a list of delegates who had earlier approved this proposed resolution in committee.

One of our main objections to this is in fact that Hersfold did not put it through the UN forums for consultation first, as far as we are aware. That would have allowed us to seal up some of the bigger loopholes - including, as Rehochipe points out, the clause concerning security measures, which may be intended to refer to CCTV cameras etc, but could be interpreted to mean anything up to and beyond troops with assault rifles.

And the funding issue is a major problem - the UN does not have a budget and is not allowed to levy taxes.

If you look at history, whenever the government gets control of something, the system goes straight down hill.

Possibly true in the US, not true anywhere else. The British health, education and railway services improved massively post-nationalisation and have been in major decline since being privatised or having market-based reforms foisted upon them.

America’s educational system was far better before the government started running it.

More a reflection on the US government than the merits of nationalisation.

The whole reason Charles Dickens wrote “A Christmas Carol” was to promote the idea that individuals should do something to help charities instead of the government.

Questionably true and entirely irrelevant - the government programmes of the day were so scarce as to be practically non-existent, as well as being brutal and dehumanising. The concept of a full welfare state just didn't exist so it's hardly surprising if Dickens didn't endorse it. But a writer writing 150 years is hardly good grounds for an argument against welfare states.

Our schools are wonderful; please leave them alone.

The Problem exposed in the Resloution is realy worth of a thought.

Independent of the Mandatoy paragrafs, which basicly explain and present the diverse problems to treat, I see the mayor problem of the resulution in the executive paragraf since it is short, lack of proposal of sustantabil solutions and is for that realy creapy.

And much better one would hvae been to propose that every nation speend more moeny on education or that every countrie provide a some money to a pot, from which the most needed would benefit,... . But to give it just away like that to say, the UNEC will take care is an to easy solution and proposal.

Beside that, in real live, the UN would have no money to sponsor that, and less 20% since the current amount is barley enought to cover the current needs

I see the mayor problem of the resulution in the executive paragraf since it is short, lack of proposal of sustantabil solutions and is for that realy creapy.

And much better one would hvae been to propose that every nation speend more moeny on education or that every countrie provide a some money to a pot, from which the most needed would benefit,... . But to give it just away like that to say, the UNEC will take care is an to easy solution and proposal.

Exactly! That's why we'd like to see this voted down - there's room for a much more comprehensive and workable proposal on the same subject. This proposal just identifies some problems and suggests hurling money at them randomly, having first raised the money through a tax that the UN is not allowed to levy.

One of our main objections to this is in fact that Hersfold did not put it through the UN forums for consultation first, as far as we are aware. That would have allowed us to seal up some of the bigger loopholes - including, as Rehochipe points out, the clause concerning security measures, which may be intended to refer to CCTV cameras etc, but could be interpreted to mean anything up to and beyond troops with assault rifles.

And the funding issue is a major problem - the UN does not have a budget and is not allowed to levy taxes.

Amen!

I've been reading this forum for every day for the past few weeks. If this issue was discussed as a DRAFT proposal, it sure slipped under my radar. And even the nations that disapprove of my nation's positions, will have to agree that I've been reading most of the UN threads as of late.

Why?

Look at my comments in the Orbital Defense Resolution. A draft proposal was posted, and within a week, I submitted friendly amendments. I've submitted major amendments to many draft proposals to be brought before this forum.

In short, a proposal that casts a wider net and collects input from this forum, is IMHO a better document.

As for the current proposal: it is wrong. There is no educational crisis in my nation. Don't believe me, read your intelligence report on my nation. I think you'll find that most of us that have tax rates in the 60 - 100% range have EXCELLENT stats for public education (which is a secondary game stat).

Why is this the case? Because everything being proposed in this resolution is already a local issue. Not just one issue, but a series of several. Right now all nations have the freedom of choice on how to answer those questions. The resolution is going to place a higher tax burden on nations that are already doing the right thing to what ... hand that money over to the "schools" in a dictatorship? Do you really think that the UNEC is going to be able to tell a dictatorhip where to spend money taken from my nation.

To be honest, I've asked my country to consider resigning from the UN over this issue. I doubt they'll do it, but this resolution violates the principals of the Rights and Duties resolution.

I've yet to see anybody explain why this is a problem that crosses international borders. The resolution is vague, but tries to sound like it is going to solve a problem, when the truth is there was NO RESEARCH done.

What is to stop me from creating another resolution asking for more taxes three months from now and saying, "The blah blah blah resolution failed!" Nothing. Why? Because when the author said our schools are in bad shapes, he / she failed to really look that up.

On the fair said, the issue is worth discussing. In fact, the way this program should work is a grant or trust fund should be established. When the trust is stable, money earned off the interest could be applied as grants to specific schools (not nations) that ask for the grant money. The grants will come with some requirements though. Schools (not nations) that are in need would get first priority. Schools that aren't in need won't.

It will take me but an hour or two on google to provide links to plenty of articles that will claim that increased funding of schools is not going to help if the money never makes it to students or teachers. This resolution doesn't address that.

Finally, this resolution broke the most important thing about Social reform. It fails to address that in different cultures, different educational techniques work best.

Children in my Confederation have excellent memories (in part from the Spice Melange they drink). But the Spice also tends to make they hyper ... so the idea of a nap time or study hall is TERRIBLE for the children of the Confederation. But after school sports are a wonderful idea.

The only way I'd vote for an education reform resolution is if it reiterated this basic principle: ACKNOWLEDGES that the needs of children are the responsiblity of local governments, whom understand best the ways to prepare their children for the future.

Telling a society that doesn't value math, that they need to focus less on language skills and more on math is going to hurt that entire society. This resolution neither respects national governments nor local children. Frankly I've yet to meet a single teacher in my life who would argue that a Federal school system is better than a local school district.

10kMichael

Is it just me, or is the UN only a few resolutions away from becoming a One World Government?

That's the goal of the lefties.... just keep fighting tooth and nail against their intrusive, deceptive agenda!

Potestas Democraticorum Deleda Est!

That's the goal of the lefties.... just keep fighting tooth and nail against their intrusive, deceptive agenda!

Except that, funnily enough, we're a socialist nation and we are "fighting tooth and nail" against this resolution. Looks like us lefties are even more cunning and deceptive than you thought...

If you look at history, whenever the government gets control of something, the system goes straight down hill.

Possibly true in the US, not true anywhere else. The British health, education and railway services improved massively post-nationalisation and have been in major decline since being privatised or having market-based reforms foisted upon them.


Actually you both are right ... and bring up another reason to vote no on this poor resolution:

Different solutions work differently for different societies.

[OOC: the Netherlands, Germany, and France all have wonderful rail networks / service. They are government owned, and I dare say would be a disaster if not for the governments. But here is the difference between Northern Europe and North America. Petroleum is much cheaper in North America, so it actually is realistic for middle income people to use autos on a daily basis ... in Europe this would be INSANE. Second, European cities are close together, allowing for the use of cheap electric engines, while North American cities are frequently a day apart ... North American rail is based on diesel engines. Simply put: the idea of transplanting the Dutch National Rail system in the United States or Mexico just won't work ... oh yes, it does make a huge difference that Dutch trains don't have to worry about sharp turns or grading issues, but the Spanish trains too (which is why they tend to be slower).

Anyway, if you look at transportation, there is a reason there is no "rule of thumb" for the world. Education is really no different, and frankly I'm a bit disappointed by this resolution. I'm happy to see I'm not the only one who caught this.]

The problem really is that this resolution doesn't even acknowledge the importance of local cultures in education and child raising.

10kMichael

Given the overwhelming disapproval voiced on this thread, and looking at the overwhelming support the resolution has in terms of votes cast--I ask my honorable colleagues who have been in the UN far longer than I this: has anyone ever seen a resolution brought to the floor to a vote that didn't pass? I'm sort of getting the feeling that as long as something hits the floor, passage is a surety. Frankly, that dissapoints me as it implies that our debates on these forums are of little consequence and gets little consideration.

While i believe i remeber a proposal getting turned down, it seems to have been a while ago and i might be mistaken. But it might not be the lack of debate in the forums that cause the landslide of "for" votes, it might be that, from my impression, Nationstates is a very liberal oriented website with a very liberal crowd, who propose liberals laws.

Given the overwhelming disapproval voiced on this thread, and looking at the overwhelming support the resolution has in terms of votes cast--I ask my honorable colleagues who have been in the UN far longer than I this: has anyone ever seen a resolution brought to the floor to a vote that didn't pass? I'm sort of getting the feeling that as long as something hits the floor, passage is a surety. Frankly, that dissapoints me as it implies that our debates on these forums are of little consequence and gets little consideration.

I agree. I haven't been here very long, but it seems that the debates in this forum do not reflect at all the the general sentiments for or against a resolution. It might be that people are judging the resolutions on whether or not they are "well-intentioned" rather than whether or not they are effective or good.

Even though the proposed resolution is well-intentioned, other nations have already given the reasons why the beautiful island nation of Bootai-Bootai feels that it cannot support this resolution.

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Viel'ridge stands in affirmation to this resolution because I am interpretting it slightly different than the rest. It seems to me that many are not truly looking at the intent of this resolution. Which is simply to create a commitee. This commitee will be regarding the educational system of many of the countries that need it. It will evaluate the current condition of the country which seeks help, and then decide whether or not the country should recieve funding. The commitee would also help set up programs which would use the money efficiently to promote a beneficial education for the children of the that country.

Just my 2 cents.

Yes, but it is impractical to raise the money for this fund, and in some ways education is an extremely provincial concern- what should be taught to students especially in the earliest grades and perhaps in middle to high school-equivalent levels of schooling is varies from culture to culture and from nation to nation.

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Viel'ridge stands in affirmation to this resolution because I am interpretting it slightly different than the rest. It seems to me that many are not truly looking at the intent of this resolution. Which is simply to create a commitee. This commitee will be regarding the educational system of many of the countries that need it. It will evaluate the current condition of the country which seeks help, and then decide whether or not the country should recieve funding. The commitee would also help set up programs which would use the money efficiently to promote a beneficial education for the children of the that country.

Just my 2 cents.

Who is on this committee, everybody?
Where does this money come from, your country only?
What are the rules for giving the money to schools?
Does the money go to schools or the governments that ran their schools into the ground?
Are there different policies for different schools?
Is the money only given to UN members?

That is a half dozen questions that I asked in about a half dozen seconds. This resolution is poorly thought out and should have addressed these basic questions if all it does is establish a committee.

10kMichael

Yes, but it is impractical to raise the money for this fund, and in some ways education is an extremely provincial concern- what should be taught to students especially in the earliest grades and perhaps in middle to high school-equivalent levels of schooling is varies from culture to culture and from nation to nation.

Exactly!

And what about home-schooling. This resolution might be used by some nations to take away that right of parents.

I think nobody has once said: Education is Evil. Education is Unimportant.

But while we all wish for world peace, passing a resolution that says, "The world will be at peace, because the UN will throw money at world peace." is not going to make it a reality.

Ditto for education. Being cute and saying, "Children will be educated, because the UN will throw money at schools." is not going to make it a reality.

Schools need family commitment. Dedicated teachers. Then they need money. This resolution does nothing to address the interactions between students, their families, and their teachers.

What I do see is something like this: our money is taken from our schools to pay this new global school tax. It is then given to some generic committee (who is even on it?), that has a mysterious process by which it redistributes this money ... and to who? The resolution doesn't say. Does it take from the rich and give to the poor? Take from the poor and give to the rich? Does each country that is taxed (i.e. everybody in the UN) get all of their money back, or is some of it funneled into UN administration.

I'd hate to see that for every 100 Spice Melange that is taken from my country only 25 of it coming back. The end result is children of the Confederation of Mikitivity would be at a loss.

I urge anybody who believes in education to vote this resolution down ... and create a real proposal that addresses the true problems and together we can create a proper resolution.

10kMichael

I hate how thousands of these idiots don't even realize what this proposal is proposing, and vote for it. The reasons for NOT voting for this proposal are obvious by its opposition in this forum, however, it seems most simply vote for it, because it seems happy. Can we kick these people out of the UN?

Kuppo is a recently new nation that was given a seat in the UN, after looking at the last UN resolution and now this one, Im starting to foster the concern that the UN becoming nothing more then a new world order, a fascist world government

1) the UN should not have the right to tell Kuppo how it should run its schools. the schools in Kuppo are in great condition due to the welfare state

2) Nor should the UN tell Kuppo want should go in a student's mouth, this resolution gives way to much authority to a institution that should do nothing but over see the globe........ not what a student eats

3) Kuppo will not pay for other nations, espically capitalist,

That being said, an idea to create a Educational Commitee in the UN is not a really bad idea. But it should focus its attention on 3rd world where more education is needed, promote student exchange/or study abroad system, protection of students rights, and free education.

Kuppo is voting No on this resolution

That being said, an idea to create a Educational Commitee in the UN is not a really bad idea. But it should focus its attention on 3rd world where more education is needed, promote student exchange/or study abroad system, protection of students rights, and free education.


Dang it!

That is such a better idea. With about 10 minutes of work, that would be a much better proposal than the current one.

By that I specifically mean, declaring that we should work together to create student exchange / study abroad systems, that students should be entitled to basic education rights, and to declare that states should offer free educations.

I so like the idea of a declaration. It ironically is more likely to succeed than just throwing money into (according to the resolution) already broken system.

I mean here is an idea ... if the system is broken, just pouring UN funds into it, might make matters worse. But giving those students a chance to come to a system that is already working ... excellent.

Well said Kuppo! Well said.

10kMichael

You know, I joined the UN recently because I believed that the UN may actually listen to the debates before voting. Currently, almost no-one debating supports the resolution (I think I counted exactly 2 exceptions to that of the 20 or so debaters). In other words... the UN isn't working. At all. Even in the rudimentary way it is supposed to -- to provide a place to debate and resolve differences between nations.

If this issue passes -- the very first proposal to come to vote since I joined the UN -- I'm going right back to leaving the UN. This is... not right.

(As far as the issue itself... geeze. What's the point of independence, any more?)

(As far as the issue itself... geeze. What's the point of independence, any more?)

You will eat at McDonald's tonight.
You will buy Microsoft programs.
You computer will be an IBM.
Your clothing will come from the GAP.
You will watch American Football and like it.
You will listen to some "cool" rock-n-roll.

And why? Because the MONOCULTURE has spoken.

Ok, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I've been wondering the same thing. To be honest, I'm just buying time til NS v2.0 comes out. Hopefully when it is a pay site, people will read the forums instead of just voting.

I think people are seeing UN resolutions exactly like their national issues, and since there is no real cost to anything we do, they read between the lines of the resolutions and ignore the actual language to judge: is this liberal or conservative.

And that is OK. It just means that we need to work together to create BETTER proposals.

There will be a day when each of us will want a resolution to pass, even though others will say it stinks and is intrusive. Personally, if a resolution clearly doesn't cross an international border in its scope, I vote it down. Every time.

Why? If people want to make national issues, they already can. They don't need to be UN members, nor do they need our approval. The national issues also must have more than one option ... which is a very strong educational point (though I dismiss many issues because they are too black -n- white).

Anyway, there are a few reasons to stay in the UN. You can still prevent region crashing and be active in regional politics (though many nations do this through puppet governments). And sometimes the body does the right things.

So please stick it out. Yes, few people who voted yes this time care about the forum. But that isn't always the case, look at the last resolution ... it came to a close vote. As did a few others from 2004.

So as far as I can see, those few people who have posted in support of this proposal have highlighted that this is just to create a committee...

Okay fair enough. But why?

The way I see it, when a resolution is put on this board in draft, it is effectively going to be reviewed in committee by the active UN members.

Sorry, but that arguement doesn't hold water at all.

One of our main objections to this is in fact that Hersfold did not put it through the UN forums for consultation first, as far as we are aware.

No, he didn't. I searched through the old posts and there was NOTHING on here about it. I missed it, East Hackney missed it, and so did Mikitivity, three of the more active members of the UN.

I'm reconsidering my vote on this. I had voted for, but am now unsure.

I also felt that this appeared out of nowhere. For so long, there hasn't been a proposal to reach quorum, and now one does which was never even mentioned on the boards? I will withdraw my vote, pending further discussion.

What standards are being used?
What happens if a nation falls short of those standards?
A committee is formed but it's purpose is to improve Eductation... not just sit back and watch.
what is the watchdog for this committee?

Yep I can see it now.
JAPAN comes to America and notices that it's education is lacking in many areas. Japan then tells America how to revamp it's educaton system, promoting a Japanese viewpoint by subtly changing the philosophies behind the subjects. In 3 generations, America becomes a prefecture of Japan.

or worse.
Iraq fails to reach the standards. They are too poor to provide proper lunches, supplies or even secure buildings for the children. the money needed is astronomical and Iraq needs help funding this massive overhaul of their education system and several nations suffer under this burden causing them to fall below the standard.

or worse yet, the Muslim nations take offense in the corruption of their children, and the killing of their culture and the largest cry of JIHAD is heard. now every nation has to divert money for security as terrorist attacks increase 1000 fold.

Sorry, but while it is a good and noble cause, I have to vote no.

The Holy Empire of Salvoria refuses to support this resolution.

The technicality of it is that only the nation putting forward the resolution will receive the benefits of the UNEC. One apostrophe in that horribly long sentence forces (ignoring all implied meaning) the objective of the UNEC to be that of aiding only the proposing nation. It may or may not be a grammatical, punctuative error; however, Salvoria refuses to take the risk.


THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.


If the resolution goes ahead, it will be of no use to any of our nations.

The Holy Empire of Salvoria cannot abide by the apalling nature of the presentation of these proposals. It is an outrage that resolutions are not treated with the utter respect that they deserve.

We are all human, yes. But we know we are human, and thus we should work towards eliminating our mistakes.

Also, that point about canteen food is rubbish. That, for Salvoria, is grounds to have the resolution thrown out. It is a joke to include something so trivial and untrue. The canteens of Australian schools, for example, can often be found to have adequate, enjoyable food.


If you do not understand Salvoria's first point, ascertain the correct usage of apostrophes in the English language and read it again, paying special attention to the bold in the quote.

I'm glad someone else saw that... I thought I mis read that line.

Haha, wow, didn't even catch that.

And despite that and all the other well reasoned comments, I'm frustrated again by the total lack of efficacy these discussions are having on the vote.

Given the overwhelming disapproval voiced on this thread, and looking at the overwhelming support the resolution has in terms of votes cast--I ask my honorable colleagues who have been in the UN far longer than I this: has anyone ever seen a resolution brought to the floor to a vote that didn't pass? I'm sort of getting the feeling that as long as something hits the floor, passage is a surety. Frankly, that dissapoints me as it implies that our debates on these forums are of little consequence and gets little consideration.

This is common among competitive nations whose only aim is to get something, anything, onto the statute books.

It is the completely cynical approach of "lets think of a really cool, green, title, that helps the 'little children'", we don't actually have to think it out, or even put it up for discussion because we know that the majority don't even bother to read past the title.

In this case I believe my point is proven. Why else would this nation change their modus operandi and not put the resolution up as a draft for discussion????? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :evil:

Infuriating, no?

The Armed Republic of Jaysekstan agrees with The Holy Empire of Salvoria.

We will be voting against the resolution due to the poor wording and will be encouraging members of our region to do likewise.

Unfortunately, members' lack of attention to detail means that this resolution may well be passed.

Jaysekstan

Well although you people are trying your best to understand the proposal, I think you may be misinterprating the language in it. It is my assumption that by OUR NATIONS the proposal means everyones nation, the meaning our being everyone. Thats why I am voting yes in order to get a better education for everyone.

SCOS OJ, among others, have expressed their frustration at the lack of influence the forum debate is having on the vote. May we suggest you telegram delegates who have supported the resolution and urge them to change their vote. Hope is not yet lost.

And the misplaced apostrophe - Jesus wept....

It's all about technicality, my friends. If the resolution says it will do something, it will. That's the fault. It's all well and good for a resolution to intend something, but the misplaced apostrophe will change the effect of the resolution.

Vote for it if you want, but remember you're only voting for one nation, and it is not yours.

The Holy Empire of Salvoria.

Well although you people are trying your best to understand the proposal, I think you may be misinterprating the language in it. It is my assumption that by OUR NATIONS the proposal means everyones nation, the meaning our being everyone. Thats why I am voting yes in order to get a better education for everyone.

It would have meant that had the author written our nations'. As it is, the resolution reads our nation's. Since this is the possessive of nation singular, it would mean only one nation, which must be the author, and "our" must refer to the collective voice of the author nation or it's government.

The Holy Empire of Salvoria refuses to support this resolution.

The technicality of it is that only the nation putting forward the resolution will receive the benefits of the UNEC. One apostrophe in that horribly long sentence forces (ignoring all implied meaning) the objective of the UNEC to be that of aiding only the proposing nation. It may or may not be a grammatical, punctuative error; however, Salvoria refuses to take the risk.


THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.


If the resolution goes ahead, it will be of no use to any of our nations.


*falls to floor*

That ... that got through the endorsement phase?

Um, maybe it is time we start telegramming the UN Delegates that have voted no, because either that is a typo (wouldn't be the first time) or a trick that really is self-serving and an abuse of the UN. (BTW: I'm sure it is a typo, because if it wasn't, the proposal would have been dumped ... but still, it underscores the point we've all been making: no public feedback was ever asked for.)

10kMichael

This is yet another admirable, noble, yet un-thought-out proposal. I do admire the idealism of the recent proposals, but things like jurisdiction are not being taken into account. Education is an issue that not even the national governments should have much say in, much less the international ones. Education should be, by necessity a localy managed issue. We run the risk of our children suffering from a huge faceless beaurocracy deciding what they should learn. It's a frightening precident no matter how utopian.

Besides the fact that this comittee is training our teachers, since it also is paying for the curriculum, it's picking out the curriculum! It's training our children in the way it thinks. We, apparently, don't get a say! These are our children! What happens when the politicians and military leaders of the next generation are more loyal to the UN than their own country?

There's another thing I noticed. There is no mention in this issue about the education of children who don't go to government funded, public schools. Are they somehow less important? In Faeglade, homeschooling is legal. Why should the parents of these children pay thier taxes, and never see any of that money help thier children?

Who is on this comittee? That is never specified. Faeglade is a Constitutional Monarchy, and we don't want our children's education to be handled by a dictatorship. I'm sure a dictatorship would feel the same way about us! As soveriegn nations it is our right, and our duty, to educate our own children.

Faeglade votes against this measure, and we hope you see the danger here also.

How did this resolution get enough endorsements to come up for vote? I don't even remember seeing it on the list of active proposals. I believe in some of the goals it is trying to promote. However, I do not see any true meat to how a committee would be created to help so many nations to reach these goals when a single nation cannot meet them all even when it is an internal priority. I guess Gemraven is on the fence at this point.

>>NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems<<

w00. That's realistic. You're going to take -my- money to fix -all- of -your- country's problems. Brilliant plan.

>>by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools,<<

By whose definition are they unsafe? I'm pretty sure it's not going to be mine.

>>purchase security systems to protect our students from harm,<<

What exactly are we defining the term "security system" as? No one bothered to mention that. Would "security system" be, say, teaching the values of equality? Because by a communist's definition, that would solve all the world's problems. Because the UN is infested with communists, the probability it's going to end up as that is high.

>>provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being,<<

Again I say: why in the **** should I be paying for your country's kids to play football?


>>provide them with healthier school lunches,<<

What if they don't want healthy school lunches? What if they want cookies? Are they allowed to have cookies?! And who defines what healthy is, anyway?!

>>provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students,<<

What sort of materials? Does this also cover anything defined by my nation as terrorist paraphernelia, e.g. anything that involves collectivism, socialism, or any other type of material that involves promoting teamwork? If any material or any teacher promotes anything except pure individualism, we here at Midgard X consider it to be terrorism.

>>and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.<<

Replace the word "prosperous" with "communist" and I would have one less objection.

The astonishing and strangely beautiful consequence of this proposal is that it has unified socialist, liberal, capitalist and libertarian. We all think it's nonsense on stilts.

I know one reason why people aren't bothering with the debates, it seems. My regional leader said "Oh, I've just about given up on the forums because the lag always times me out before I can do anything." So... it's possible the reason the UN is so crappy, now, is because the forums aren't working right?

dp

I know one reason why people aren't bothering with the debates, it seems. My regional leader said "Oh, I've just about given up on the forums because the lag always times me out before I can do anything." So... it's possible the reason the UN is so crappy, now, is because the forums aren't working right?

I know one reason why people aren't bothering with the debates, it seems. My regional leader said "Oh, I've just about given up on the forums because the lag always times me out before I can do anything." So... it's possible the reason the UN is so crappy, now, is because the forums aren't working right?

Oh dear, another "motherhood and apple pie" resolution - who could possibly be against it? But I expressed some qualms when asking for my region's feedback on how I should vote, and I now see better minds than mine have already identified the flaws.

It's not just the slip "nation's" that betrays that this resolution was worded by a student in a rich nation. Take the point about "cafeterias", also this:

Have YOU tasted school food recently? I apologize to those who actually work in a school cafeteria, but the food in my area is GROSS. It is hard to believe how this food could be healthy. But seriously, once my brother did pick up an out-dated carton of milk, which had gone quite bad. I have also found several bones in my "chicken" nuggets in the past. If this is to be the standard of food in our schools, something needs to be done. Putting this line in there is the only way I could think of to keep the students from all dying of food poisoning.

I know NS is a game, but I actually found that quite saddening. There are many parts of the (real) world where any food served in schools would be greeted with glad cries, and I have lived in some of them. In that context, someone who thinks that finding a bone in their chicken is "serious", sounds as if they have no idea how lucky they are. :(


White Lotus Eaters
UN Delegate, Urbanites (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_region/region=urbanites) Region

"I know NS is a game, but I actually found that quite saddening. There are many parts of the (real) world where any food served in schools would be greeted with glad cries, and I have lived in some of them. In that context, someone who thinks that finding a bone in their chicken is "serious", sounds as if they have no idea how lucky they are. :( "
White Lotus Eaters

How true. I guess it's all that progress with self-esteem programs that the school lunches are buckeling under to children's demands for un-healthy and fattening fast food instead of good meals. And then wonder why food service declines. Compound that with "cut big government taxes" ... guess what??? your chicken patty just got cheaper! You have to pay for your public works, including schools. That means taxes. So elect people who are not going to be "cutting taxes" because schools are part of it. If we continue to go on down this road of cutting social services, then we will be like the developing nations with nothing in the school cafeteria at all.

The Republic of Cuiusquemodi, while considering the improvement of education a laudable goal, does not wish that the United Nations meddle in the internal affairs of any nation. Therefore, the Republic of Cuiusquemodi must vote against this resolution, no matter how noble the intent.

Furthermore, should this resolution pass, the Republic of Cuiusquemodi shall have to take action against the enforcement of this resolution, up to and including withdrawing from the United Nations.

All right guys, I think we all agree that this should not be passed. however the Aye's are winning so what are we going to do about it?

Simple Telegraph the Aye voters and get them to see the light. I have a feeling that they voted Aye because at first glance, it looked nice and good. Point out the flaws. Get them to change their votes to NO!

I mean the author of this atrocity has yet to answer our questions or concerns. WHERE IS HERFORD??? Perhaps the Typo at the last paragraph is not a typo after all.

Tell fellow UN members you know that has not voted to vote no. Convince those who voted Aye to change their votes. Let's get the UN BACK ON TRACK!!

Amen, brother!

The astonishing and strangely beautiful consequence of this proposal is that it has unified socialist, liberal, capitalist and libertarian. We all think it's nonsense on stilts.

Well, at the end of 2004, I'm going to conduct a poll on worst resolution every ... but the Cafeteria Resolution of April 2004 is looking to be a frontrunner is the category for:

Worst Justification for UN Action EVER

"Look Bobby, this meatload is rancid. Should we call in the UN's Blue Helmets!"

"No need Sue, I've already contacted Big Brother. We'll be eating Olive Garden tomorrow! WooHoo!"

"Bobby, you're the bestest! Now only if they'd serve us Starbucks too!"

10kMichael

Have YOU tasted school food recently? I apologize to those who actually work in a school cafeteria, but the food in my area is GROSS. It is hard to believe how this food could be healthy. But seriously, once my brother did pick up an out-dated carton of milk, which had gone quite bad. I have also found several bones in my "chicken" nuggets in the past. If this is to be the standard of food in our schools, something needs to be done. Putting this line in there is the only way I could think of to keep the students from all dying of food poisoning.

I know NS is a game, but I actually found that quite saddening. There are many parts of the (real) world where any food served in schools would be greeted with glad cries, and I have lived in some of them. In that context, someone who thinks that finding a bone in their chicken is "serious", sounds as if they have no idea how lucky they are. :(


That is how he / she is defending this ... ahem ... resolution?

That you for bringing this forward, as I'm now hoping that this resolution is a stupid april fools joke or something gone bad.

I totally agree with you that it is really SAD that Hersfold is seriously wasting all our time to really get a resolution passed about raising international / national cafeteria standards.

[OOC:
Who here looked at UN resolutions before joing?
Who here looked at real UN resolutions sometime in your life?
Assuming you've done both, do you think:
(1) That this resolution approaches the quality of the last five resolutions?
(2) That this reoslution looks remotely like any real UN resolutions?

If you answered yes to either of those questions, could you enlighten the rest of us who are convinced that Hersfold is playing some bad practical joke now?]

10kMichael

To start with, the offical resolution argument line needs to be held at the top somehow. Having to hunt for it makes debate harder than the constantly crashing forum pages do.

So, six thousand yes vote already?

And only 5 pages of debate?

much of it no?

Do any of those mad persons realize that the UN is outlawing the libritarian state here?

SHOCKED by the fact that many school systems lack sufficent security systems to keep their students safe from dangerous trespassers and, in some cases, themselves;

Simply put, libritarian nations would be forced to create a system that is contrary to everything they believe in. The UN is once more isolating and obscuring the fringe, slowly dwindling minority types of government so that their perfect 'Amercian Democracy, now with SOCIALISM!' additude can be the only legal UN state.
For the sake of all nations that don't want to deal with this mad hegemony of democratization, Western culture and large government control, I urge you to reconsider voting yes on this proposal. Especialy if you just said, 'oh, that would be nice' and voted yes without considering what you're doing to the international community.
Nevermind the alienation of fringe groups that could be pushed back from thier opressive ways by diplomatic means instead of instant rejection, what about the instant limitation of what kind of government can join the UN. First it was rouge factions on the fringe, then Freedom of Choice cut out consumer driven states, now this will trim down Libritarian states, and those states who believe that education is the place of the parent, as in many of the rustic Kingdom class states? Next we'll cut out anyone who doesn't want to go into space, then everyone who keeps lesser narcotics leagal, then everyone who doesn't acknowlege that Ringo Starr was the greatest Beatle. Where will it end?
Stop mindlessly voting yes on these issues and look at what we are doing to our neighbors, who deserve the right to chart their own political destiny without being ostrisized by the international community.

* *

That's the sound of your words, all of our words, going unheard and unread by the approving masses, too neglectful to read this forum, much less the resolution.

OK, we have two approaches.

One, mount a big telegram campaign to delegates who have voted 'aye'. The ACA has already organised one and has swung about twenty delegates, amounting to at least 100 votes. Which ain't enough.

Two, work on the basis that this is likely to pass. How do we counter it? It's badly written, so there are loopholes. I'm feeling a little fuzzy-headed at the moment, but I can already think of a couple:

1) The UNEC can be sabotaged from within - as long as there's someone who can veto or filibuster any moves by the committee to interfere, we have no problem.

2) We can deal with the misplaced apostrophe isssue that gives the author all the funds in one simple way: independently apply sanctions and restrictive measures that recoup any costs we bear.

It's cynical and dirty and I'd prefer not to have to do it. If the UNEC never directly challenges us, we're fine. If it does, we have to get dirty. Regrettable, but perhaps our only option.

Thoughts?

Michel Duval & Frank Chalmers
Speakers for Education & International Relations

mount a big telegram campaign to delegates who have voted 'aye'. The ACA has already organised one and has swung about twenty delegates, amounting to at least 100 votes. Which ain't enough.

That's a slightly pessimistic estimate. East Hackney's telegrams alone have swung around 25 delegates and the voting ratio's been hauled down from about 7 to 2 in favour to 5 to 2 in favour. If we could have got a few other regions to also organise mass TGings, I think we could have run this thing very close indeed.

And as for getting dirty... we're game if anyone else is...

Sorry, hadn't realised you'd been doing that well. Still, I can't see us stopping it now.

So, suggestions for dirtiness?

What if I don't want to educate the seethy masses. What right does the UN have to come in and tell me that these dirty peasants need to be better educated. Education gets in the way of their daily ritual of back breaking labor and self-defacing hero worship of their elected officials. I like my citizens dumb, thank you very much.

work on the basis that this is likely to pass. How do we counter it? It's badly written, so there are loopholes.

The loopholes are necessarily as purile as the text of this proposal.

But Wait

This stupid bit of classroom law affects nobody but Hersfold!

There is no provision within the proposal to raise funds for the commitee, so the hypothetical funding will only come out of the hypothetical funds the UN already has!

All of the problems illustrated within this thread will only happen to Hersfold.

Hoist by her own petard!!!

However, if nothing else, it has at least given us a practice run, and some ideas about how to shoot down a really noxious piece of legislation that's sure to be just around the corner.... :?

Unfortunately a lot of people in the real world would love for a group like the United Nations to dictate to the rest of the world how they should live, govern and decide issues. Frightening really.

Here it seems like some have already said, that most people are voting for it because it sounds like a nice thing to do. Without of course realizing who they are actually going to fund it all without taxing people to death, and without thinking of the UN infringing on other countries rights and sovereignty.

Aha! If any nation knows how to deal with rotten legislation, it's Joccia. Perhaps we should start a thread on loophole-picking? Could be amusing as well as constructive (destructive?).

Public schools were a joke in 1850 when we adopted the idea from the German Socialists, and it's a joke now. The ruling Communist Party uses these Youth Propaganda Camps to further the Marxist cause, dumb the children down, fatten them up on high-carb lunches, but at least they have good self-esteem and are very tolerant to the deviants.
Government schools are a black hole for taxpayer funds, and if the UN thinks that The Armed Republic of Militant-Ireland is going to put one dime into their failed global schools, then the joke's on them. Here in M-I we use the voucher program, and allow home schooling. Not only does it produce better results, but it's done at the expense of the individual, not the taxpayer. That, my friends, is the standard that we endorse.

Aha! If any nation knows how to deal with rotten legislation, it's Joccia. Perhaps we should start a thread on loophole-picking? Could be amusing as well as constructive (destructive?).

Noo, what mak's ye say that?? :oops:

The first rule of economics is scarcity--there is never enough of anything to satisfy everyone.

The first rule of politics is to disregard the first rule of economics.

THAT is why this resolution is going to pass. Perhaps if NationStates 2 incorporated an actual cost to these ill-conceived nanny-state programs things would be different. Then again, if the real UN is any indicator, maybe they wouldn't.

Sorry, hadn't realised you'd been doing that well. Still, I can't see us stopping it now.

So, suggestions for dirtiness?

Continue to telegram Delegates that have voted in favor. I've started doing it as well.

If they find that they have literally hundreds of telegrams from different nations saying, "Dude, this resolution reads "our nation's" not "our nations'" and the only defense posted to the forums is, "Have you tasted school lunches, they suck." This resolution is a bad April Fool's Joke, please don't start a trend of the UN passing joke resolutions and change your vote." They may at least realize that they should READ the resolutions before voting.

10kMichael

Sorry for not voicing myself sooner. I've been telegraphing those that voted aye and I think I got some to think about it.

sorry again for the shouting.
HERSFORD HAS ANSWERED OUR CONCERNS... AND HER ANSWERS SHOULD BE SPREAD ACROSS THE MASSES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Here is the letter I'm now sending out

[Name of nation being telegramed], I am Ichi Ni from the Region of 000New World Order.

I am writing to you about the UN Resolution up for vote at this current time. I could not help but notice that you voted AYE for the Education Committee and I wonder if you are fully aware about the status of this Resolution.

First and foremost… it is not complete. The author, Hersford has admitted that this resolution needs work but won’t pull it out to make the corrections because it’s close to passing. In his/her only reply in the forum, frequent uses of the following phrases can be read:

“This will be a main issue covered in the second draft.”

“In the second draft, again, I will add a clause…”

“This issue will also be covered in the second draft.”

“This would almost have to be the case…”

The last line… Almost? She’s talking about fundings to be given to those who need it and it’s not well thought out? I will agree that at first glance it seems like a nice, generous Resolution. However its these mistakes that makes me afraid of this resolution passing.

There are others concerns that you should know about. I urge you to read the forums that asks these questions and note that even HERSFORD hasn’t been able to answer most of them. In fact Hersford has admitted that a SECOND DRAFT of the resolution is being worked on (or at least thought about.) Why are we even voting on something not completed in the authors mind? In the past, many UN resolutions have passed that limit Nation’s leaders ability to govern their Nations as they see fit. This is yet another such resolution. Please read the forums and make an informed decision concerning your stand on this resolution. Please ask that others do the same.

Thank you for you time.
Ichi Ni.
UN Delegate
000New World Order

YES THOSE LINES IN QUOTES WERE ACTUALLY HERSFORD'S. A SECOND DRAFT... WE ARE VOTING ON A ROUGH DRAFT!!!! CHANGES... THEY CANNOT BE MADE ONCE THE RESOLUTION GETS PASSED!!!

I am telegraphing Hersford to pull the resolution so that she can make corrections. we'll see. However, If you can help spread the word to those AYE-sayers. perhaps Hersford won't have to pull the resolution.

I have a big problem with the wording on the "security system". How exactly does one imagine implementing a system to "protect" students? I can already see someone using this to warrant the use of metal detectors in schools. The United Nations is not supposed to govern such issues. We should be able to decide on a common ground. Approving draconian rules for school systems is plain wrong.

I believe we should amend this item, at least on this point.

Time is running out. How about contacting the delegates of the big "feeder" regions - Pacifics and RRs - and asking them to take a look at people's concerns, and vote against? Does anyone have contact with them?

Not being totally familiar with the UN process (being new to the game, and being unable to do excessive amounts of reading into the finer details due to time restraints): -

If the current resolution does the inevitable and passes, is it possible to propose and vote upon a counter-resolution that negates the effects of the current resolution?

Or, better still, is it possible to propose a resolution that will, while leaving it in the list of UN Resolutions, disacknowledge its officiality and effective existence?

Just a thought.

We could also, possibly, organise a mass, self-imposed exile from the UN, although from what I've seen that wouldn't make that much of a difference to those nations that vote "yes" on whatever resolution comes to the vote.

Time is running out. How about contacting the delegates of the big "feeder" regions - Pacifics and RRs - and asking them to take a look at people's concerns, and vote against? Does anyone have contact with them?

Yes. The North Pacific delegate, Wilkshire, is reading / participating in the North Pacific forum debates on this resolution, but I imagine that he is waiting until we can reach consensus. Also of note, Hersfold has been defending his / her resolution in the forums as well.

The debate over there is summarized as such:

PRO: Ignore the typos, schools are important! We must act now! Let's put more money into schools!

CON: We'll ignore the typos, but please spell check next time, OK? But the resolution is still flawed: it only throws money at nations that have bad schools, without addressing WHY those schools are bad. In short, you are encouraging nations to have bad schools.

(Obviously I'm in the CON camp, but the truth is the PRO argument really is based entirely on the assumption that NationStates schools are in disrepair. I've yet to see a single shred of evidence that NationStates or real world schools are in disrepair. The PRO did state that school lunches taste "awful", therefore they assert there is a serious problem for the UN. Frankly, I think their arguments are making a mockery out of the UN and feel they should apologize to the rest of us ... basing UN action on bad school lunch meat? Come on people!)

Or, better still, is it possible to propose a resolution that will, while leaving it in the list of UN Resolutions, disacknowledge its officiality and effective existence?


[OOC: Impossible. Under the current game rules, typos ... even this business that all the money WILL go to Hersfold because of a typo ... can not be changed. The resolution is bad even if you ignore the typos, but we've passed amazingly bad resolutions in the past as well.

The problem is many players assume that when they join the UN that it is just another option like the daily national issues. They read the issues and resolutions briefly when they log on once a day and then make a judgement not based on the words nor on how to run a current via rule of law, but just vote whatever feels good. A good friend of mine said that she looks and guesses whatever the "liberal" position is and just votes. She literally is spending about 1-2 minutes per day on the site and that is it. She doesn't care if the resolution is poorly written or looks nothing like a real UN resolution. She just wants to see how her opinion stacks up with a bunch of random people.

To be honest ... that is a good reason, but I think that if a nation is "role-playing" being in a UN, that there should be other consequences. Hopefully NationStates v2 (which will be a pay game) will separate out the players who are using the UN as really just a "POLL" on political topics from those of us that enjoy looking at issues more in depth.

With that in mind, I say stay in the UN. When bad resolutions like this one pass, it encourages other unrealistic resolutions. But if you stay in the resolution, when a well written resolution ... and there are several we are working on now, comes to play ... the people who are ignorant about the real UN and how these things work are exposed to these ideas. Some of them might even like them.]

It seems to me, the only thing the educational bill does is to establish a committee to give away UN funds, if such funds are earmarked for a worthwhile purpose. It should NOT affect any nation that does not apply for such funds, and should prove worthwhile to those nations that are in desperate need of it.

Also, simply because other bills already legally require it, (i.e. the already existing children's act) does not mean it is physically possible to comply, without the funding required to back that up. This resolutions allows those nations who cannot enforce the children's act to apply for extra funding and services to bring them into compliance. It is not a "feel good measure," but eliminating a necessary budget constraint.

Not that my nation will require such funding, but I can see how other nations might.

*

And the "our nation's" thing can refer to all signing nations. As we are the ones argreeing to this, and, as such, we are the "our." It's just like how "every single one of us" is singular. Jehosophat on a stick, this is being nitpicky!

Although, I do agree most posters would vote for a "happy fun law" that would put all signers to death, based purly on the title. (Possible proposal idea to anyone who thinks they could get it up for a vote.) ;)

*

The forums haven't been working for me, recently, either, although I do check them when I can (and the lag gods let me).

*
And yes, I have gotten enough telegrams, thankyouverymuch. My mailbox is full, so you can stop sending them. You can change my mind in the thread, if you can.

Wrong. It also give the committee the power to "resolve the problems" with said education shortfalls (last paragraph)

But where is the funding coming from. According to Hersford, the fundings are though donations. Basically the rich nation's generosity will fund this. Possible but I can't see it being large enough to help all those contries who fall short.

Oh, and who's watching this fund... Students of the nations that need it (again according to Hersford.)

OH and Hersford admits that this is a Rough Draft (needing a second draft with all the answers to our questions) Why vote on first draft?

And powers and freedoms have been lost due to technicalities and Typos. The majority don't see that apostrophe s as meaning all UN Nations.

BTW. Sorry for the spamming. I'm glad you thought about this resolution tho.

We could also, possibly, organise a mass, self-imposed exile from the UN, although from what I've seen that wouldn't make that much of a difference to those nations that vote "yes" on whatever resolution comes to the vote.

Because of my newfound objection to any organization or coalition of nations that endeavors to declare it self a "global authority" and is given the power to do so, The Republic of Luciferius will definitely choose exile from the UN (which, like the real UN, seems to be more of a Communist Front) if this resolution is passed.

The Republic doesn't need some "world governing body" intruding into it's affairs and violating it's "natural right" of self government.

I urge nations to vote this proposal down. It ignores why schools are bad and in fact will make them worse.

Consider: You are a parent and have three children.

Child #1: Gets high marks in school, and studies often.
Child #2: Gets low marks in school, and studies often.
Child #3: Gets low marks in school, and screws around.

Grades come in, and you decide it is time to do something to help Child #2 and Child #3. Instead of rewarding Child #1, who gets high marks and studies often, you take some of the money you would have given equally to Child 1, 2, and 3, and put it aside for private after school tutor lessons. You then tell Child 2 and 3, "I will give you 40 Euros a week, to pay the nice man down the street to help you with your math homework. After school each day I want you to get help. Here is the money."

Three months pass.

Child #1: Gets high marks in school, studies often, though is a bit sad that you couldn't afford dance classes for her.
Child #2: Gets average marks in school, studies all the time and gets help from the nice man down the street. Child #2 is very happy!
Child #3: Gets low marks in school, and used the money to buy drugs while at school.

You laugh and will say that I'm being extreme, but let's think about 1930s Germany. The German government used public money to build a highway system (for military use), a great national air service (which later was the bomber wings for the luftwaffe), and rebuilt its industrial backbone (again for the war effort).

I don't know how much money 1930s Germany spent on schools, but I'm going to GUESS that it was less than the money it spent on building weapons.

This resolution would REWARD Germany for ignoring its children and building a military.

This resolution REWARDS nations that don't spend money on improving the quality of life of their children by saying, "Hey, we noticed your school has moldy buildings and your school lunch tastes bad. We give you this gift of 100 million Euros. Please use this money to improve your schools!"

Despite all the good intent in the world, there is not a single WORD in this resolution to prevent Child #3 (i.e. 1930s Germany) from abusing the money taken from the rest of us (Child #1).

While you can throw money and sometimes help a Child #2, it is rare. In fact, a much better analogy is we aren't the parent of the children, but the next door neighbor.

My nation REFUSES to give money to Child #3s (1930s Germanys), and if you still think this resolution is a good idea, I expect your vote and support for my United Nations Outside Committee. My nation needs a better national park system, and gosh darn it ... it will make you feel warm and fuzzy too.

People, use your brains. Your teachers helped you develop them in moldy buildings with bad tasting school lunches. I know many teachers and find it to be among the most noble professions. Talk to your teachers and ask what makes the BEST difference between a good student and a bad student. It isn't money ... the answer is: parents who care. If schools are underfunded, it is because the adults in that community don't care about money and education. Giving them a grant isn't going to make them change their minds ... it is nothing short of welfare, and while I'm not opposed to welfare (my nation is a welfare state), it does NOT work without complete control. And what nation here wants to give away complete control of its future?

Name just one nation!

10kMichael

The Republic of Shamalama Ding Dong will not vote for this piece of legislation.

While it is surely a noble attempt to raise the bar, so to speak, it is entirely envisionable for this to actualy lower the bar for all. Who is it that says that the educational system within my Republic has any lower standards, test scores, or funding, of any other UN member nation? Who is it that publically states that their system of education has healthier school lunches, a better learning environment, or finer extra-curricular activities than those of my Republic?

Who is it that is so wise as to "resolve all of these problems" and yet not name one single way to do so?

I applaud the concern expressed in this resolution, but as of yet have been persuaded to support it.

Ichi Ni responded to this post about the proposal in another thread by asking for my help.

"Yes, the more prosperous nations should obviously not have to help out the less prosperous nations. Why, if we were to provide aid, they may become world economic powers as well, then we would not get as much money; we just can not have that. Also, that the fact that the wealthier nations not being effected by the bill as they should have adequate eduacation systems should not stop us from citing this as a problem with the bill. We need to fire up our fellow rich region U.N. representatives, so it is ok to lie to them and make up emotionaly charged arguments about U.N. control gone rampant and subliminal education systems controlled by Mustapha Mond (Brave New World). Instead of our governments spending our money on educating the poor nations of the world, we could open up a new export market so that they could make more money. Then those poor bums could help themselves. It has come to my attention that the black market price for baby-meat is much more than the cost of raising a child to age of say, twelve to fourteen months. The governments of said poor counties could legalize and tax baby sales for food. The extra money made by the citezens and the income tax from it and the sales tax on the babies could provide more money for education for these poor countries. I am sure that these countries would do something responsible with there money and not something like buy T-72's. Many of these sales would be in the form of export to richer nations and regions as the poor nations would not have the money for such treats, but that just means more baby-stew for us, eh? Eviscerate the Proletariat Comrade."

The subject of this post was a modest proposal, is was my wish that I sound sarcastic enough to show that I was critisizing those who opposed the proposal on certain grounds. Said proposal is indeed rather non-specific, but it is a good idea to make it so; this insures that it can be interpreted to better "roll with the punches" than a specific bill.

The subject of this post was a modest proposal, is was my wish that I sound sarcastic enough to show that I was critisizing those who opposed the proposal on certain grounds. Said proposal is indeed rather non-specific, but it is a good idea to make it so; this insures that it can be interpreted to better "roll with the punches" than a specific bill.

While it is true that many nations have said that they don't feel obligated to help other nations, what are your thoughts on my analogy of three children's school marks and their parent just giving them money for tutoring lessons?

While some resolutions benefit from being general, this particular resolution takes too much liberty with vague details -- so much that it actually endangers the quality of life of more children than it helps.

Of course, if you feel this resolution is good, I urge you to support my suggestion for a United Nations Outside Committee. Surely wildlife and national parks are important to our future. Please look at that resolution and I think you'll agree that it is of the exact same quality as the United Nations Education Committee. Exact same.

10kMichael

Who is this Ministry of Compliance constantly forcing me to comply with resolutions that do not affect my nation?

Is there any way to contact these coersive collectivists?

Spread the word guys, we are 5000 votes behind.

Try to get the Aye's to consider withdrawing their votes... if they can be pursuaded to vote Nay, then all the better.

actually, win or lose, I just want people to be informed when they vote.

Well, that's great.

The idiots, I mean...ayes have it.

Sigh... well I'll keep working until the bitter end.

(OOC: Too many Idiots... Talking about those who vote without researching the resolutions... not all those who voted Aye)

I find it not only unacceptable but reprihensible that anyone would allow a world organization to dictate educational agenda or in any way influence their own internal educational system.

If this resolution passes I may be forced to withdraw from the UN all together, and may also be forced to launch a campaign to boycott the UN.

It is the sovereign right of each nation to specify the level of propaganda we subject our young people to, and I reserve that right within the Empire of Vlodnak. Nobody will bring their communist and leftist agenda to our shores, unless they are prepared to face the full might of our military strength.

Strictly internal issues should be addressed internally, folks. If the UN becomes an autocratic forum for imposing politically sensitive policies down everyone's collective throat, it will have lost its idealism and beneficial purpose. A well-meaning individual half a world away cannot begin to understand educational needs and concerns in my hometown, or my neighbor's hometown, etc, etc. The creation of an information gathering commission only is a fine idea, but don't give it any authority to implement policies UN-wide. Let's give nations the freedom to be their own bosses.

I find it not only unacceptable but reprihensible that anyone would allow a world organization to dictate educational agenda or in any way influence their own internal educational system.

If this resolution passes I may be forced to withdraw from the UN all together, and may also be forced to launch a campaign to boycott the UN.

It is the sovereign right of each nation to specify the level of propaganda we subject our young people to, and I reserve that right within the Empire of Vlodnak. Nobody will bring their communist and leftist agenda to our shores, unless they are prepared to face the full might of our military strength.

Though I've voted against the current resolution, the ideal was never to force governments one way or another.

I've been communicating with the representative from Hersfold, and together we are working on a friendly amendment to the UNEC resolution which I'm convinced any nation interested in both education and sovereignty will find acceptable.

With that in mind, I would like to urge all nations to remain in the UN. Help us work through this, and perhaps together we can lead by example.

The process of bringing a DRAFT proposal to the floor of the UN, integrating comments, and then getting new endorsements, and finally getting to the floor of the UN as a resolution is lengthy. I'd be wrong to lead you to believe otherwise, but we (Hersfold and my nation) are counting on the support of nations like yours to carry the debate and vote on this amendment. Please stick around. :D

Good luck,

However, let me remind you to POST IT IN THE FORUM. Hersford did not do this and thus the work must be spent to correct all the problems that got in.

Good luck,

However, let me remind you to POST IT IN THE FORUM. Hersford did not do this and thus the work must be spent to correct all the problems that got in.

This is a point always worth repeating. If Hersfold hasn't already submitted it, I'll contact their ambassador with your request. :)

10kMichael