NationStates Jolt Archive

Update: new stuff in italics
I agree with Hirota, education is the way.

If young people are properly educated in sexual matters then the need for aborting unwanted pregnacies will be greatly decreased. Then there is the topic of whether a victim of rape is allowed to terminate a resulting pregnacy - there are too many grey areas for any proposal to be fair and just for every possible situation that could possibly arise involving a woman wanting an abortion.

Two issues- abortion and parent licences have recently caused much controversy in the UN. This proposal is aimed at combating both problems with the use of education and support in the community. This proposal does not force the legalization of abortion so please do not debate this here.

The following outlines what the proposal intends to do but it is no were near the finished draft. Specifically I need help with spelling issues and grammar, using correct UN terms, and classification.

Family Planning Centres

Given that unwanted children often have a low quality of life.

Given that raising children can be stressful and difficult.

We urge all UN members to build family planning centres that will-

Provide men and women with information about-
a) methods of birth control and their effectiveness, including but not limited to abstinence and a range of contraceptive devices and medications.
b) the risk and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)
c) the treatment of STDs
This information will be available to children two years before the age of majority unless accompanied by their legal guardian.

Provide parents advice on educating their children in the afore mentioned points (a) (b) and (c)

Provide expecting parents advice and information about pregnancy and labour.

Provide expecting parents advice on the practical aspects of raising a child.

Provide advice on schooling and child care facilities including their availability, effectiveness, and safety.

Provide qualified councillors for people in difficult situations.

The centres will be a non-profit organisation that will be free from tax

Why not make them into Soylant Green? Endless supply of food etc.

*thumbs way up* I see no problems.

c) the treatment of S.T.D’s

Just take off the apostrophe there. If this isn't pointed out now, it will be later on. Better to get it fixed up now.

Provide expecting mothers and father’s advice on the practical aspects of raising a child.
And add an apostrophe to mother's.

Stop correcting the spelling errors of other people. There are a few resolutions which have passed, where they are nowhere near perfectly written with dotted I's and crossed T's, grammar or punctuation.

Umm... I was under the impression that the whole point of the draft was that people could pick up on problems with the proposal before it's submitted, rather than after. I'm sure Desdemona will understand.

c) the treatment of S.T.D’s

Just take off the apostrophe there. If this isn't pointed out now, it will be later on. Better to get it fixed up now.

Okay, if we're going to get technical, "S.T.Ds" should be written "STDs"- no periods. Otherwise, it should be "S.T.D.'s"

I like it personally, though I would question how such places are to be funded... Maybe pop in that its a non-prfit org. set up, like the I.R.C.O. , which should be a good precedent.

Thats all for now.

- The Rep of Komokom.

I like the soylant green idea. Hmmm...maybe a new proposition on soylant green....

Stop correcting the spelling errors of other people. There are a few resolutions which have passed, where they are nowhere near perfectly written with dotted I's and crossed T's, grammar or punctuation.

Thanks but it’s alright.

I asked them to.

I’m dyslexic so I need help with my spellings and such (especially confusable words) and I know how frustrating it is when a proposal isn’t spelt correctly (when I notice).

What’s soylant green?

Komokom I think I will say non-profit and that they don’t have to pay tax.

RomeW I think that’s more of a style issue. I’m checking it.

(Desdemona),
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

Glad to see I inspired a decent proposal :D

This certainly gets my support, and will be urging my delegate to endorse this.

Terran Assemblage - With all due respect, I would like to know why you see fit to resort to continued sniping against the representative from Enn. I've observed several posts by yourself which have been uncalled for, and have been very bad form

_________________________
http://ubbt.moby.com/userfiles/2312817-hirotaflag.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=hirota)

"Soylent green is PEOPLE! WE have to stop them...they'll be breeding us like cattle...people, soylant green is people..." - Charlton Heston

Soylent Green (1973, USA)

In an overpopulated near-future New York, a cop discovers that the newest "synthetic" food is in fact made from human corpses.

Thanks. I thought it was some kind of soft drink.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

One good snipe deserves another. Turn about they say is fair play.

=^o.o^=

Ahh, so that's where the references to soylent products in my national description came from after the cannibalism issue.

You people need to watch more 'the world is going to hell in a hand basket' movies from the late 60's to the early 70's. Talk about politics, some of those movies were trying to send us a message. Overpopulation being a possible problem with many current nations taking extreme birth control methods.

Logans Run had a more serious tone. An enclosed society, whose members which reach 30 years of age, must be terminated. An example of birth control in reverse. In order to make room for the new, the old must go.

Aside from the whole soylent issue, I can't see anything wrong with Desdemona's proposal as it is.

the one problem I would like to raise is when this information would be available to "adults"

I would suggest at least 2 years before the legal age of consent in every member state.

I reckomend 14 years of age, since many nations allow sexual excursions to begin at 16.

the one problem I would like to raise is when this information would be available to "adults"

I would suggest at least 2 years before the legal age of consent in every member state.

Yes.

And if I put 'unless accompanied by their legal guardian' would that be okay?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

i would think it should start in some degree around puberty age, regardless of a nation's legal consent age being somewhere in the teens or non-existant. Roughly 12-14yrs of age.

My slant...

Family Planning Centres

Given that unwanted children often have a low quality of life.

Given that raising children can be stressful and difficult.

We urge all UN members to-

Provide all citizens with information about-
a) methods of birth control and there effectiveness.
b) the risk and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases (S.T.Ds)
c) the treatment of S.T.Ds

Provide expecting parents advice and information about pregnancy and labour.

Provide expecting parents advice on the practical aspects of raising a child. (changed to flow on from previous sentance)

Provide advice on schooling and child care facilities including their availability, effectiveness, and safety.

Provide parents advice on educating their children in the afore mentioned points (a) (b) and (c)

Provide qualified councillors for people of all ages in difficult situations


I think that covers it?

the one problem I would like to raise is when this information would be available to "adults"

I would suggest at least 2 years before the legal age of consent in every member state.

Yes.

And if I put 'unless accompanied by their legal guardian' would that be okay?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

You think a curious 13yo (if the cut off is 14) would ask their parent or legal guardian along? Perhaps the councilor would be legally obliged to contact the parent if the child is under the age of consent in the particular nation?

I reckomend 14 years of age, since many nations allow sexual excursions to begin at 16.

That's the basis I was working on, but I realised that there are nations who might have a higher or lower age of consent, and who might encourage education on this matter at an earlier age. My suggestion in it's first form did not tred on too many toes. If nations wanted their youth to have access to this information at an earlier age then it isn't a problem.

And if I put 'unless accompanied by their legal guardian' would that be okay?

Personally, I'd disagree with that, but I imagine that the previous resolution "freedom of choice" would have an impact on this matter, so I suppose it's not something to argue against.

Perhaps the councilor would be legally obliged to contact the parent if the child is under the age of consent in the particular nation?

I would not make that part of the proposal, as it might impede on nations own policies on how to deal with such a situation. For example, the DSH tends to permit medical confidentiality for teenagers asking for contraception - we would tend to follow a similar principal on this matter.

Having said that, our schools educate children on the principals of the birds and the bees as early as 10 anyway.

Hello all,
First off I think this is a well meaning resolution as it is written but
I would like to make a suggestion. I would like to see if this clause could be added to the resolution:

1.) Knowing that abstinence is the best protection from STDs, let us educate our youth that sex should come after marriage.

Thank you all for your time.

Unashamed Christians

I would like to see if this clause could be added to the resolution:

1.) Knowing that abstinence is the best protection from STDs, let us educate our youth that sex should come after marriage.

Hmm. Well, we wouldn't like to see our youth taught anything of the sort since we don't believe it. And although abstinence is undoubtedly an effective defence against STDs, the figures show that if you just teach abstinence it's horribly counter-productive.

How about something along the lines of:

Recognising that many Nation States believe that sex should only take place within marriage, governments are free to disseminate their preferred form of sexual education alongside that outlined in this resolution.

-DP-

To Unashamed Christians - while we respect your country's values, we feel that this is an unworkable clause. In Ecopoeia, we attach no state significance to marriage (the religious are of course free to do what they wish in this regard). Indeed, a significant percentage of our population engages in polyamory and communal living is the norm. Conventional 'wisdom' concerning the family unti really has very little application here.

Best wishes.

Ursula Kohl
Speaker for Health

Agreed. I don't think religion should be included in this proposal - if a nation does want to promote celibacy outside marriage then that's up to them, but should not be imposed on nations that might not espouse the same values

I ask that you reconsider my proposal, it is not just from a Christian viewpoint that I make this proposal. It is also the most logical when it comes to public health. Saying that youth are going to go ahead and have sex so you might as well as make it safe by giving them condoms and birth control pills is the wrong solution. It is far more cheaper to educate abstinence than to spend all that money on condoms and pills and still have unwanted children. Please reconsider.

Unashamed Christians

I ask that you reconsider my proposal, it is not just from a Christian viewpoint that I make this proposal. It is also the most logical when it comes to public health. Saying that youth are going to go ahead and have sex so you might as well as make it safe by giving them condoms and birth control pills is the wrong solution. It is far more cheaper to educate abstinence than to spend all that money on condoms and pills and still have unwanted children. Please reconsider.

Well, teaching abstinence is almost entirely ineffective in controlling either STDs or unwanted pregnancies [OOC: in the real world, anyway. People can and will invent what they like about their own NS nations.]

I respectfully disagree with you East Hackney, in a quick google search I found an article with statistics that disagree with your conclusions that abstinence ed does not work in the real world, I quote:

"During that period of resounding growth for abstinence-based sex education, the percentage of high school students who say they've had sex dropped from 54 to 46. Teen pregnancy has dropped by a third, and 47 states have logged declines."

The article comes from WorldNetDaily. You can read the full article here,

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30028

In response to your remark that people will do with their NS nations as they will, then I ask, what is the point in having the UN anyway?

Unashamed Christians

Unashamed Christians - I'm afraid that marriage is simply not an institution that we encourage in Ecopoeia. It carries no state benefits, no societal benefits, no inheritance benefits and no moral kudos. Besides, what is to say that married couples will want their children?

Technically, abstinence is a perfect birth control. But so is homosexuality. We have no wish to 'educate' our populace to adhere to either.

Ursula Kohl
Speaker for Health

I respectfully disagree with you East Hackney, in a quick google search I found an article with statistics that disagree with your conclusions that abstinence ed does not work in the real world, I quote:

"During that period of resounding growth for abstinence-based sex education, the percentage of high school students who say they've had sex dropped from 54 to 46. Teen pregnancy has dropped by a third, and 47 states have logged declines."

First off, although I'm not familiar with WorldNet, it appears to be a fairly rabidly right-wing publication, so I'd take any of its conclusions with a pinch of salt.
Second, most of the article seems to be based around hearsay - naturally, if students are being told every day in school that abstinence is the moral and healthy option, they're going to say that they're not having sex. It doesn't mean that we should believe them.

Leaving the pregnancy issue aside for one moment - since I haven't yet been able to find reliable stats for it - this rather suggests that abstinence is ineffective against STDs:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1166168,00.html

In response to your remark that people will do with their NS nations as they will, then I ask, what is the point in having the UN anyway?

I think you've misunderstood. What I meant was that the Nation States game mechanics only give you very limited stats for your nation. If you want to put in place environmental measures through the game issues, that hurts your economy stat. You don't have a choice about that and you can't argue it.

But the game mechanics don't cover issues like this. If you, in character, roleplaying your nation, want to claim that your abstinence policy has led to falling rates of STDs and unwanted pregnancies in the nation of Unashamed Christians, I can't argue against that. I can, however, argue that in the nation of East Hackney, our liberal sex-education policy has also led to falling rates of STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

A follow-up post - this claims to suggest that although pregnancy rates in US teens are declining, that's overwhelmingly down to increased use of contraceptives:
http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/archives/newsrelease3205.html

Sample quote:
'"Teachers on the front line in high schools around the country recognize that young people need a range of information to support them in making responsible decisions regarding their sexuality," comments AGI President Sara Seims. "Yet this study reveals that teachers are covering far less, far later than they believe is needed. Our findings are particularly disheartening, considering that abstinence accounted for about one-quarter of the recent drop in the U.S. teenage pregnancy rate, while improved contraceptive use was responsible for the rest. And the teenage pregnancy rate and adolescent rates of STDs remain high."'

Ahh, so that's where the references to soylent products in my national description came from after the cannibalism issue.
I suppose it is.

Thumbs up

:mrgreen:

This question is directed for the most part to East Hackney, but what is it about abstinence education that disturbs you? Is it the moral aspects of it? A concept of absolute right and wrong? I'm stabbing in the dark here but just do me this favor of enlightening me about why you oppose it. It seems like we will get nowhere quoting statistics, so lets try to find some common ground here that we can work a compromise with.

Unashamed Christians

With respect to Unashamed Christians, we thought we had offered a compromise. All we initially suggested was to tone down your original "All UN states should teach that sex comes after marriage" to "All UN states remain free, if they like, to teach that sex comes after marriage." This has nothing to do with the specific rights and wrongs of abstinence vs whatever - it has to do with many nations' concerns that the UN is legislating on things that it shouldn't be poking its nose into. It's also a recognition of the fact that the original proposal didn't command nations to teach sex education - it only encouraged it. It therefore seemed inappropriate for your amendment to command action on the part of other UN member states.

But, this said, we may have misunderstood your original intention and it may have been that you did not intend the proposal to command the teaching of abstinence. If so, apologies.

As for the actual issue of abstinence itself - well, a whole lot of reasons. Firstly, we're fairly sure that the real-world facts are on our side, though we're open to compelling evidence the other way. In particular, an awful lot of the "proof" that abstinence works in the US seems to be based on what teenagers tell their teachers, their parents, their priest or some bunch of pollsters. And in any country which places a high value on religion and particularly on abstinence before marriage, it seems reasonable to assume that a fair number of those are lying.

Secondly, we feel that attaching a moral stigma to sex before marriage is profoundly psychologically damaging. Sex should not be viewed as dirty, sinful or unclean and teenagers should not be made ashamed of themselves or forced into repressing the most basic, natural and harmless urge that we have (well, OK, second most, after beer). All people should be free to explore their desires as soon as they are emotionally ready for the consequences and mentally able to make their own choices and take their own responsibilities, which we view as happening in the mid-teens.

Thirdly, we have a major problem with the very concept of marriage. Although we don't forbid it, we don't exactly encourage it either and very few sign up for it. We believe that people should be free to make and break relationships according to the dictates of their own hearts and minds, not forced by social pressure into a one-size-fits-all mould.

We hope this goes some way towards explaining our opposition to this measure. But please be clear: we would have no problem with some sort of compromise measure that either left nations free to pursue their own, parallel, sex education programmes (as I originally suggested). We might even support an amendment that specifically included abstinence to be taught alongside other sex education in the proposed family planning centres.

We would not, however, support any amendment that held up abstinence as morally superior to sex before marriage or as a more practical solution for society as a whole. Nor would we support any amendment justifying marriage or abstinence in religious terms.

Comrade Chomsky
Delegate for Foreign Affairs

First off my apologies to you Comrade Chomsky, in my rush to post a reply between classes I failed to realize that you were the one that originated the compromise proposal.

Second, I am not trying to place a moral stigma to the idea of sex itself. In my view God places limits on His gift of sex to protect us. Think of all of the diseases that have been spread through sex outside of marriage, AIDS, syphillus, gonnarhea, herpes, (not sure on some of those spellings). Now think of the protection gained from those diseases by waiting until marriage and staying committed to that one partner for the rest of your life.

Third, I can bear the thought of an amendment being added that specifically mentioned abstinence as a part of any sex education program. That is an acceptable compromise in my mind's eye.

This a rewrite of my amendment and I hold it up for approval by all concerned:

Abstinence education shall become a part of any sexual education program instituted in the aforementioned family planning centers. Abstinence education shall include statistics of the failure rates of the most common contraceptives.

Unashamed Christians

First off my apologies to you Comrade Chomsky, in my rush to post a reply between classes I failed to realize that you were the one that originated the compromise proposal.

Second, I am not trying to place a moral stigma to the idea of sex itself. In my view God places limits on His gift of sex to protect us. Think of all of the diseases that have been spread through sex outside of marriage, AIDS, syphillus, gonnarhea, herpes, (not sure on some of those spellings). Now think of the protection gained from those diseases by waiting until marriage and staying committed to that one partner for the rest of your life.

Third, I can bear the thought of an amendment being added that specifically mentioned abstinence as a part of any sex education program. That is an acceptable compromise in my mind's eye.

This a rewrite of my amendment and I hold it up for approval by all concerned:

Abstinence education shall become a part of any sexual education program instituted in the aforementioned family planning centers. Abstinence education shall include statistics of the failure rates of the most common contraceptives.

Unashamed Christians

That seems entirely reasonable to us - any responsible sex-education programme should be teaching failure rates anyway [OOC: I seem to recall that our school did] - hopefully that'll encourage teenagers to make damn sure they know how to use contraceptives properly, in order to minimise the chances of failure, and also encourage a belt-and-braces approach (erm, or something in that general area) to contraception.

In any case, we don't have a problem with teaching abstinence in East Hackneyso long as it is taught as an option and not hammered home with moral threats, social disapproval and whatnot. We trust our teens well enough to make their own informed decisions on the matter.

But we'd like to hear from other nations on this subject - at present it's been a bit of a closed conversation...

-DP-

Second, I am not trying to place a moral stigma to the idea of sex itself. In my view God places limits on His gift of sex to protect us. Think of all of the diseases that have been spread through sex outside of marriage, AIDS, syphillus, gonnarhea, herpes, (not sure on some of those spellings). Now think of the protection gained from those diseases by waiting until marriage and staying committed to that one partner for the rest of your life.

Marriage does not necessarily mean that someone is protected. An organism that carries a STD does not know if the person is married or not, so, theoretically, a person could get married legitimately right after meeting someone and have sex immediately afterwards and still transmit the STD. A marriage license does not create a physical barrier from STDs.

I know the above scenario isn't practical, but if the argument is that, by being married, you've known the person long enough to know that they have nothing, it's still not very logical. A person CAN get to know the other person long enough to know they're fine without being married, as there is no stipulation (at least in RL terms) that says that a couple must be married after a certain period of time. Knowledge is gained through time and that time frame isn't fixed. Two people could know that they're both fine the day that they meet or it could be after 12 years. They could also get engaged and book a Church a year afterwards and then know they're both fine say, six months before going through the actual ceremony. My point is, the time to know someone that well cannot be fixed and thus cannot be "timed" to the day of the marriage.

This a rewrite of my amendment and I hold it up for approval by all concerned:

Abstinence education shall become a part of any sexual education program instituted in the aforementioned family planning centers. Abstinence education shall include statistics of the failure rates of the most common contraceptives.

Unashamed Christians

I'll accept this ammendment provided that it is taught- like the other options- in an unbiased manner. In order to make sure people draw up the conclusions that best suit themselves they have to hear every case in an equal and balanced manner. We cannot "sway" the population because then they will not be making the best choices beause they have been influenced by someone else.

How about...

Abstinance is the only 100% guarantee of not contracting an STD or concieving a child, however if one chooses not to be abstinate, this is what you do to protect yourself.....

This a rewrite of my amendment and I hold it up for approval by all concerned:

Abstinence education shall become a part of any sexual education program instituted in the aforementioned family planning centers. Abstinence education shall include statistics of the failure rates of the most common contraceptives.

Unashamed Christians

I'll accept this ammendment provided that it is taught- like the other options- in an unbiased manner. In order to make sure people draw up the conclusions that best suit themselves they have to hear every case in an equal and balanced manner. We cannot "sway" the population because then they will not be making the best choices beause they have been influenced by someone else.

That particular phrasing does not seem to say the education on abstinence is going to be emphasised compared to other forms of protection, so I'd imagine that it'll be down to Member States to decide how to include abstinence compared to other protection. Which sounds fine to me. The DSH would give it an equal attention to other forms.
_________________________
http://ubbt.moby.com/userfiles/2312817-hirotaflag.jpg (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=hirota)

Abstinence is a form of birth control. I see no reason to mention it specifically.

Desdemona,
Temporarily separated from her sig.

Abstinence is a form of birth control. I see no reason to mention it specifically.

That sounds fair enough to me :)

I'm afraid that, while we in Ecopoeia regard this as a sensitive and meritorious proposal in its own right, we see it as an issue best tackled on a national level.

Kind regards

Ursula Kohl
Speaker for Health

With all due respect Black New World, I think it does need to be mentioned. Specificity is desirable in writing law, as your resolution currently stands, birth control could include abortion. It may not be your intention to include abortion as a means of birth control but it certainly could be interpreted that way. I realize that this resolution is only encouraging education about types of birth control but I would not want abortion as a means of birth control endorsed or encouraged by law. If we need to, lets come up with a workable list of all methods of birth control.

I would like to take this opportunity to expand on my comments about marriage. Marriage as definied in the Bible is between one man and one woman for life. In my view, marriage as it stands in real life is taken far too lightly by many people. Some people whether they consciously admit or not see marriage as a contract that can be broken when things in the relationship go bad or they just don't feel like. Much like a business contract that can be broken simply because one party to the contract feels like it. Marriage is a solemn vow taken before God that must not be broken except on issues such as adultery and physical abuse within the marriage. Maintaining ones virginity before marriage is both healthy for the relationship between husband and wife because there has been no one else but that one person in sexual contact, and healthy for the individual because they are never going to get an STD. Just my two cents.

Unashamed Christians

Abstinence is a form of birth control. I see no reason to mention it specifically.

Hmm. What exactly are we hoping to achieve with this resolution? If we're aiming to educate people about all available forms of birth control, then they probably need to be listed specifically, including abstinence.

The reason for this is that if the proposal just reads:

Provide men and women with information about-
a) methods of birth control and there effectiveness.
b) the risk and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)
c) the treatment of STDs

without specifying which methods will be taught, that leaves the way for countries to only teach abortion, only teach abstinence or whatever.

If that's the intention, then all well and good. If the aim, however, is to ensure that everyone is fully informed of all the options, then the proposal really needs to specify what those options are.

That was part of the intention admittedly one I’m not too happy with.

Different countries have different birth controls legalised and are at different levels in technology.

I didn’t think it would be possible to create a comprehensive list.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

OK. Then how about a broad wording along the lines of "methods of birth control and their effectiveness, including but not limited to abstinence and a range of contraceptive devices and medications"?

Nice. I’ll pop it in next edit.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

Hello all,
First off I think this is a well meaning resolution as it is written but
I would like to make a suggestion. I would like to see if this clause could be added to the resolution:

1.) Knowing that abstinence is the best protection from STDs, let us educate our youth that sex should come after marriage.

Thank you all for your time.

Unashamed Christians

Ping ! And in a recent TIME magazine article :

(Faithfully, :wink: typed out by hand!)

Title: NEWS FLASH: TEENS HAVING SEX.

(Yes, it got my attention!)

Promises can be hard to keep, especially when it comes to sex. U.S. teens who pledged to remain virgins till after marriage had a bit of trouble keeping their word, according to a study of 12,000 adolescents by researchers at Columbia and Yale. In fact, 88% of them went ahead and had sex anyway. What's more, those who made a vow of chastity were less likely to use condoms than other teens, contracted sexually transmitted diseases just as often and were less likely to know they were infected. It's difficult for teends to to learn safe sex while saying their not going to have sex, says co-author Peter Bearman.

Also I find this little lot I've quoted below rather interesting when you think about it and the stance certain Real World countries are evolving on sexuality and education there-f as a result.

"Now, if groups like Moral Majority have their way, there won't be any sex education at school, and our kids will be the dumbest in the world when it comes to sex.... But our parents are sexually retarded too.... Fear and primitive morals are creating a sexual pressure-cooker in this country and soon the top will blow.... Only in the U.S. do we find children drawing a picture of a baby coming from the clouds or from under a cabbage leaf."

Thats all for now folks,

- The Rep of Komokom. Who might I add rather likes this proposal.

With all due respect Black New World, I think it does need to be mentioned. Specificity is desirable in writing law, as your resolution currently stands, birth control could include abortion.
I know. This is how some countries view it.

It may not be your intention to include abortion as a means of birth control but it certainly could be interpreted that way.
I didn’t want to mention abortion because it is legal in some countries and not in others.

I realize that this resolution is only encouraging education about types of birth control but I would not want abortion as a means of birth control endorsed or encouraged by law.
If it is illegal in your country you can stop it being taught.

If we need to, lets come up with a workable list of all methods of birth control.
Is what East Hackney suggested okay?

I would like to take this opportunity to expand on my comments about marriage. Marriage as definied in the Bible is between one man and one woman for life.
But not in the UN.

In my view, marriage as it stands in real life is taken far too lightly by many people. Some people whether they consciously admit or not see marriage as a contract that can be broken when things in the relationship go bad or they just don't feel like. Much like a business contract that can be broken simply because one party to the contract feels like it.
That is what they believe. I’m not going to say they’re right or wrong. I don’t know.

is a solemn vow taken before God that must not be broken except on issues such as adultery and physical abuse within the marriage.
Well that works… as long as you’re Christian. My country believes that laws should work for people of all faiths.

Maintaining ones virginity before marriage is both healthy for the relationship between husband and wife because there has been no one else but that one person in sexual contact, and healthy for the individual because they are never going to get an STD. Just my two cents.
Some STDs can be genetic, some can be contracted in other ways. Will enough people stick to this rule so that it won’t be meaningless? My resolution is about educating people in all aspects of prevention so they can make up there own mind.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

Sorry I’ve not been on we have been having computer issues in Tblack.

What do you think of the new draft?

Desdemona,
Constantly sigless.

I feel that the word "urges" in the proposal allows it to be international in scope, since the UN is not decreeing that member nations *must* create these centers, but only encouraging them to do so. I also feel that fact should be overemphasized in the proposal, so as to avoid arguments about funding and such.

Two other things that I would like to suggest are mention of the environmental impact of overpopulation, and instead of outlining all different forms of birth control and STD prevention, why not say "methods of birth control and STD prevention, in keeping with the level of medical technology available and cultural values extant in the participating nation"?

Henrietta Chapman
Minister of Frogs
Boogidyloo

Thanks I'll keep it in mind for the next edit.

Although I've been gone a bit I would still like to know your opinions on the proposal. I am now in a position to do something about it.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

OOC: Sorry I've been away real life got in the way