NationStates Jolt Archive

Good day to all.

Firstly, this proposal idea is based off an unsuccessful proposal initially submitted by The Commonwealth of Ritsa. Ritsa's proposal was to tattoo blood group details onto all people's arms, so that in the even of an emergency the paramedics and other emergency services staff could treat them pore promptly. This proposal is flawed however, in that it forces the entire population of the NationStates world to tattoo themselves, something I am sure many would oppose due to it being a violation of one's own body. This flaw is what inspired me to take Ritsa's basic idea of speedy emergency services and implement it in such a way that it would not infringe on their physical person, though of course it will have to affect their personal privacy, and also if made compulsory their free will.

The idea is a worldwide database of all persons, containing their blood type, any diseases they mey carry, alergies to common medicines and next of kin contact details. The information for this database would most easily be collected via General Practioners as part of the patient's medical files, however the logisitics of identifing people quickly, the flaw of the last proposal, still needs to be addressed. I had thought of drivers licences having a magnetic strip much like a credit card does, however the fact that people may not have their licence, or even have a licence at all (children for example) make this not so effective. What I have come up with is digital fingerprint scanners, as everyone has unique fingerprints a single scan of certian fingers on both hands (incase of the loss of one hand) will provide a means of determining identification that can easily be carried my emergency services personel, without the patient having to conciously carry personal idenification around with them. We could give people one year, or possibly several to comply with this new resolution (if it becomes one) and give the doctors the scanners to create the files for every individual as they come in for a checkup or perscription.

I believe this proposed resolution falls into the Moral Decency catergory, as it restricts civil freedoms as it is manditory, however it is only a mild restiction as it is a once of finger scanning (except for in the event of a serious accident) and a slight loss of personal privacy of medical records, however as this information is accessable, albeit more slowly currently by the medical professionals who will gain access to this information, the difference is only speed of accessability.

Opinions?

I have no idea how to structure this.

It sounds like a good idea but I don’t know how to solve most of the problems.

There is however a technology called a ‘biochip’ that you can put in pets to identify them. We could put medical information into that chip and be ‘scanned’ by doctors.

Of course there is the ‘violation of privacy’ argument. Could the proposal ensure that what ever device is decided on it will only contain necessary medical information?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

(ooc- fingerprint scanners are currently available for notebook computers as a security feature, they aren't overly expensive & hence software could be written to use people's fingerprints as a means of identification only. )

The scanner simply gets somebody's identification number, the online secure database is where the information is stored accessed by medical personel with secure individual logons who then search for the number to get at the patient's information.

I believe this method will illiminate two birds with one stone so to speak - the devices can be stolen but are useless without the secure logons - which could also require an authorised person's fingerprint. The other "bird" is the installation of an implant is invasive to the individual in a physical sence, and if it stores the data some smart cookie could develop a means to read it. If someone wants to crack the secure site, they would need to cut off an authorised person's finger AND get their logon codes, possibly two authorised fingerprints and codes could be a logon requirement for the site?

Thank you Desdemona for helping me fill in the gaps. :)

It sounds like a good idea but I don’t know how to solve most of the problems.

There is however a technology called a ‘biochip’ that you can put in pets to identify them. We could put medical information into that chip and be ‘scanned’ by doctors.

Of course there is the ‘violation of privacy’ argument. Could the proposal ensure that what ever device is decided on it will only contain necessary medical information?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?


Sounds good to me

Even if we could be certain that only medical information would be stored on such chips, we would need assurance that nobody but medical staff would ever be able to access such information - and we cannot see how this assurance could ever be given, granted the unscrupulous governments out there. Doctors could be pressurised into releasing such information to individual governments, openly or in secret. Any security system is only as secure as the individuals holding the keys, and if every doctor has access to this database - essential for it to be any use - then it would be no great feat to find a doctor with malleable scruples.

We would also be unsure where the money for these chips would come from. We can't raise taxes and we doubt poorer nations could afford such sophisticated technology and the programmes needed to implement it.

Further, various religions are opposed to this kind of permanent interference with the human body; this system could not be mandatory. We suggest an opt-out system.

PDK Orthmann
Ministry of Wu-Wei

Guys, read my 2nd post - it's simply a fingerprint scanner and a PC with an internet connection - no invasive surgery or hi-tech chips, just a simple database.

Microchip 'em. Same as dogs, cats, liver flukes etc. We Gwangols are a practical nation (it is law), and it is my personal credo that practicality comes first. I know my citizens will not object (that is against the law), and I strongly suggest that all other nations bring their populations under proper control and implement this idea, even if the UN dosen't agree (and whenever is that anyway?).

Yorectum's proposal is acceptable. However certain members of society, particularly religious groups in question will reject any invasive procedure done to their body, even for their own benefit. Tell the truth, i'm for the finger print scanner idea. The idea of a medical biochip which could be used to track me I seriously dislike.

I'll agree with Yorectum's original proposal and endorse it.

Thank you Terran Assemblage.

What of the categorization & strength? Moral decency was the closest I think it fits into, with small impact.

I believe it will work.

With the bio chip I believe you just inject it. I’m not sure though.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
Do you know what ‘gay science’ is?

Any form of databasing a person, even if for a single purpose, is bound to be cracked into by a third (unwanted) party. No system is secure, because as the laws of life demand, "if it can happen, it will happen". The laws of optimists would say "if there is a will there is a way".

It's my personal opinion, as well as that of my people's, is that keeping such records, is but yet another way to be controlled. A person should always be able to choose if they want to be databased. The more options given to people, the higher the chance of them embracing one of the options (that all end with the same goal).

Fingerprints is a good idea, so is a biochip, retinal scanners, tattooing, specific gravity, water displacement, number of freckles on forehead, or just plain "nothing" for the options a person could have. Obviously "nothing" doesn't help attain the goal, but the person knows this and after having it proven to them, they just might change their minds. Or die because the EMT's couldn't help them in time.

Compulsory *anything* is a bad idea. And you know it.

How about compusory for UN nations to provide the database as a service to their people but leave it up to individuals as to whether they register for it? Surely having a service such as this in place for persons to use if they so choose is a positive move for society in general?


(OOC: I thought this would not be viable for how the game works? BTW, is using the OOC thing in the UN forum appropriate? It doesn't list it as specifically role play only but most seem to be "in role")

(OOC: I thought this would not be viable for how the game works? BTW, is using the OOC thing in the UN forum appropriate? It doesn't list it as specifically role play only but most seem to be "in role")
As I see it...
There are no set rules. Using references to the real world tends not to go down well though.

The only true IC thread that I know of is the Strangers' Bar. Apart from that, people can be talking as themselves and/or their nation.

Medical Database


Category: Moral Decency
Strength: Mild

By the passing of the "International Medical Database" resolution, all United Nations members will institute their own database system that allows emergency services personel speedy access to vital medical information. This information is only to be obtained in the event of an unconsious or otherwise incapacitated person/s needing immediate medical attention and not being able to provide the information directly due to their incapacitated state.

All member nations and all associated internal health agencies, both public and private, are subject.

Recognising all individuals right to "Universal freedom of Choice" all member states are hereby required to provide the facilities to design, manage and utilise a system within their own financial means however the choice to provide medical details and written permission to distribute said details remains the responsibility of individual persons in member nations, or in the event of one being unfit to sign, their legal guardian or next of kin. (Eg: minors/mentally handycapped/elderly or any other person deemed by law in their native nation not fit to decide).

Each nation's database could be accessed via an implanted biochip, fingerprint or serial numbered Photo ID card carried by the individual as each nation sees fit, due to legal, moral, religious or financial constraints in each country. In the interest of privacy, all identification means must not hold any information, only a serial number to access said information.

In the interest of privacy, two authorised personel must provide thier logon and password to access the database.

The following is an example of, but not a limit to, the data that would be included in the database.

- blood type
- any diseases they may carry
- alergies to common medicines
- next of kin contact details

The information for this database would most easily be collected via General Practioners as part of the patient's medical files. Once signed permission is granted, GP's can update the information as they see fit unless the individual signs a notice to remove themselves from the database.

I havent read all replies, so imight be repeating some people, but here are my objections, to which i can't think of a quick solution. I am not here to trample your idea, just to highlight the problems so minds larger then my own may find solutions.

1. Expence.

There are countries where the government cant pay for computers at any department. That can hardly pay for hospitals. Thinking from the US might lead you to the idea we're all rich, but i think you might be mistaken there. When i read about magnetic strips in driverslicences i think, What about those people without driverslicences or even those counties without driverslicences.

2. Technical dificulties.

Any technical solution has technical problems. a computer error could mean the death of a lot of people. This is obviously NOT a good idea.

3. Privacy.

Any radiochip can be read by anyone with the proper equipment in an amazingly large area (up to 10m). Magnetic strips on a creditcard-like system can be stolen and read. Cetralised databases can be abused by governments.

and finaly 4. Effectiveness

Sure there are benefits, but they are minor when compared to the drawbacks. For a bloodgroup: it takes some blood and some time, but in 10 minutes someones bloodgroup can be determined the old fashioned way. Now in some rare medical emergencies every second counts and the bloodgroup is of decicive importans, this can be a big deal, but it will be extremely rare as in most cases o-negative-negative plasma can be used and there is no problem at al to wait a couple of minutes before blood if the own group is suplied. and for other medical details; they are also rarely needed in case of an emergency.

I guess the final question is: how inventive are we to solve the above problems, and how many drawbacks are we willing to accept. I hope people can find solutions for this good plan, but i know none.

Of course being a poor third world country (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2966639#2966639), we could not afford such luxuries, but someone else could always foot the bill.

I don't think so.

:(
What if life insurance find out if you have a disease where you could die in the next years.
What if you are trying to find a job and they will disallow u because u have this ot that disease.

If the information comes in the wrong hands, ur doomed, no job, no life and health insurance!!!

I Don't Think So!
WHATEVER
:shock:

To answer the question of monitoring the information and safequarding it, the database should be under the watchful eye of WHO (World Health Organization.) the database should be voluntary on an national level (each nation decides if it should be mandatory or not) and what method to use. Forms, biochip, cards, fingerprints. this will accomodate nations at any tech levels, and won't infring on individual rights and religous texts.

WHO will also have a database of all healthcare providers. only they, and anyone who fills out the appropiate forms, can request Patient Information. Nations Law Enforcement can only request data in accordance to their nation's laws reguarding patient information.

This should provide data security, maintanence, and provide patient privacy. The various methods of collecting will respect individual rights, technological levels and offers a comfortable level of choice for the patient. It also allow for a range of retrieval options including but not limited to Fax, Datalink, e-mail, and even hand delivery for situations of variying degrees. (Missionary in 4th world country might not have access to e-mail but can still get the message over the phone.)

By using WHO, you have access to an international resource and WHO also gets another tool for identifying and combating outbreaks on a global venue.

My 2 cents

My biggest urk with this proposal is the issue of privacy. In any technologic system there will be technologic faults. Existing networks are prone to failure, and have been proven to be accessable by anyone that wants to access it (be it legaly or illegally).

Technology itself simply isn't ready for such a burden, as there are just far too many evils that have to be dealt with.

... Then again, any person willingly submitting to a biochip implant knows these risks, and enters at their own risk.

Basicaly, as long as there is NO level of this being forced upon anyone (aside from requiring Nation States to make this system available), I think it's a great idea!

It is standard procedure on ambulances to slap someone's finger into a pulse-ox machine which shines a lazer through their hand detecting blood pressure and oxygen perfusion. Or at least, it's standard procedure everywhere we can afford such devices.

In any case, it is trivial to imagine such a device being made which could also read your thumb print - which in turn could be hooked up into a basic medical database. Basic blood types for every man woman and child on Earth would be about 10 gigs, plus whatever information was needed to identify the finger prints in the first place, easily fittable on board a rig. So the ambulance wouldn't even need to send personal information over the air waves, all the relevent database could be stored inside each and every ambulance.

The problem, of course, is that this would be very expensive. It would also be a level of socialized medicine which, while probably valuable, would be completely antithetical to many nations (especially those Corporate Police States out there).

This would, in short, probably work better as a response to an Issue that each nation could interact with (or not) differently. Perhaps it could be something like this:

Some guy dies from a drug reaction in the field.

Responses:

Eliminate Ambulances (big hit to public health, small hit to tax rate, big hit to compassion)
Institute Finger Print Medical Database (small hit to civil liberty, small increase in tax rate, boost to public health, boost to compassion)
Istitute Faith Based Healing (populace becomes more religious, your public health gets worse)

Or something like that.

Oh yeah...

Don't make me come over there.

The cost is not a problem neither is the technology level available. with a database in place and the people to man them. the information can be obtained at any tech level. either by manual forms (processing time: longest) to biochips (instantanous) the tech level can be adopted by any nationstate according to their economic strength or tech level available.

While Privacy is an issue. safeguards can be put into place to offer the highest level of privacy without sacrificing efficency.

The biggest benefit would be to those who are traveling abroad. A vacationer in another nation can rest assured that should something happen, his medical history/condition is available should doctors need it.

By forcing only one method of data gathering (biochips) you run the risk of not getting the support of those who believe that biochips are the work of the Devil (yes they are out there) or alienating the nations that don't have the tech. nor the funds to get the tech.

By forcing only one method of data gathering (biochips) you run the risk of not getting the support of those who believe that biochips are the work of the Devil (yes they are out there) or alienating the nations that don't have the tech. nor the funds to get the tech.

OOC: http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/mondex.asp
That's where I got the idea. :wink:

I've never really understood why people get all freaky about the number of the Beast thing. Like most things in the Book of Revelations, it is anti-Roman propaganda. Unsurprising, in a book written by a man languishing in a Roman prison.

666, or in Roman Numerals:

DCLXVI

or to put it bluntly.... each of the normally used Roman Numerals used in order. Had it been targetted at an Empire using the Arabic number set, naturally it would state that the number of the beast was 9,876,543,210.

It really is that simple and that uninteresting. Any conspiracy theory that involves the shape cast by three sixes, or the special properties of flipping them over, or whatever, is automatically false - it wasn't written with the Arabic Numeral set it was written as DCLXVI - and that's all it was ever supposed to mean.

Good night, everyone.

well, I was trying to say, offer a choice. Everyone likes the bright new shiny thing, but not everyone will accept it or can afford it. also with the new Right to choose resolution. the various data gathering methods will appease those crowds.

and don't mock the power of God. weather you believe in Him or not is your choice... don't alienate others because they choose Him.

2 concerns:

1. Medical confidentiality.
Sharing these records could mean loss of a job, housing, or insurance, as someone noted already. There are major safeguards in place to protect medical records; prehaps you should research these.

2. Privacy.
What is to stop gangsters or government (but I repeat myself) from using this data totag you like a deer, and track your every move?

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you."

2 concerns:

1. Medical confidentiality.
Sharing these records could mean loss of a job, housing, or insurance, as someone noted already. There are major safeguards in place to protect medical records; prehaps you should research these.

2. Privacy.
What is to stop gangsters or government (but I repeat myself) from using this data totag you like a deer, and track your every move?

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you."

How about compusory for UN nations to provide the database as a service to their people but leave it up to individuals as to whether they register for it?

Actually by changing the idea to all individuals to decide if they want to join in this government service, you have warmed my nation to the idea.

1. Medical confidentiality.
Sharing these records could mean loss of a job, housing, or insurance, as someone noted already. There are major safeguards in place to protect medical records; prehaps you should research these.

-well that's why you have the World Health Organization maintaning and protecting the database. They also understand the importance of Patient Confidenciality.

2. Privacy.
What is to stop gangsters or government (but I repeat myself) from using this data totag you like a deer, and track your every move?

-That is choice of individual Nations. There really would be no control for it. which is why it's voluntary.

However, since I am not the author of this resolution, I am only offering a suggestion.