NationStates Jolt Archive

I have proposed an agression against communist act, please aprove of my proposal so we can try and stop communism, or at least start to hault it. We need private enterprise for economic flexibility, and the governments shouldn't be worried about running buisnesses, they should worry about governing it's citizens and let the citizens run thier own buisnesses. This is why we need to act against cmmunism! Please aprove my proposal, it is on pg 13 of the proposal list, and go capitalism!!1 :lol:

The Holy Empire of Gethamane's Ministry of International Affairs: Legal Bureau recently attempted ritual suicide when they read your proposal.

Communism is a legitimate political idealogy, and is protected by the United Nations. You are not the first to propose such a resolution, but for the sake of Gethamane's Legal Bureau, I pray you are the last.

Yay, go annoyances! There's nothing more the WLP love after a breakfast of ground glass and lemon juice on paper cuts then to see yet another pointless proposal. Its fantastic. We can't wait to read this one :D

You know, I re-call my earlier comments, just because its some-ones first post and meaning thus hopefully they are a newbie, does not mean their able to seem like a tad of an "harmless ignorant" and get away with it.

I'll make this easy for you.

In this *game* communism is regarded as a valid form of government.

As such, proposing such a proposal can get your bee-hind wallop'd by a member of the moderation staff. I think we can safely assume your proposal will be weeded out rather quickly, as things can go here, that is, and you may get a telegram warning you to read to rules, more then possible.

Just so you know, this has been a bit of a problem lately...

- The Rep of Komokom.

Strictly speaking, there's nothing in the rules saying that you can't propose the banning of a particular ideology. Of course, there's a lot of things which aren't explicitly in the rules - commonsense is one.

Days like this, you should feel lucky. Had I the same power as some of our moderator types, I would smite you.

Have a nice day.

You know... Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people... we should give it another chance....

(the pope nearly spills his grail of ayahuasca in laughter)

We do not need a law to ban communism, it's pathetic, weak, unrealistic philosophy will doom it as is. Just take a look at the world. The most capitalist country produced the internet, the most communist country has resorted to eating rodents and canabalism. Not really hard to distinguish which philosophy works :)

Long live freedom, choice, markets, and LOW TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His Holiness Pope Liam the Psychedelian, Pontiff of the Church of Psychotropics and Founder of Shambhala

Ban it.
It's evil, diobolical, twisted, and on top of all that.....



it doesn't work.

You know... Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people... we should give it another chance....

You wanna know why it killed '100,000,000' people? Because nobody gave it a chance at all because they were xenophobes and probably racist.

Directly from the office of Emperor Jake of the Federation of Cassopia.

1) Far be it from me to defend communism, I personally don't like it, though I've met a few rather nice people here who act as self proclaimmed commies! But really, this argument is old hat, if there is a top 5 list of thing over-debated here, its

* Communism, or another form of governmental ideology, e.g. Dictators.
* Religion
* Homosexual Rights
* Abortion
* National Sov.

In no particular order... :wink:

2) Enodia is absolutely right, come to think of it, there are no specific rules... yet I've this niggle that some where some how the U.N. is not allowed to step in and declare what kind of governments we have... And yes, pray be that we have common sense... :wink:

3) I am not sure if communism really killed 100 000 000 people. I know Mao killed around 70 million (I *think* ) under the guise of communism and the revolution there, over the years, but I don't know if Russia and all the other communist countries did away with the rest of that number... any one with specific figures?

4) Where was I... oh yeah, while the Real World proved communism as it stands has never really being gotten right, we must always remember that this is a game and us such cannot always rely solely on it to make everything right, for example, the almost constant refering to the U.S. laws involving same sex marriage, quite a few frying-pannings are gonna happen in the future still over that... :wink:

Don't ask me why I am playing devils advocate for communism, its probably a single glass of white I had with dinner doing what 6 beers and half a bottle of vodka cannot :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

How many times has this issue come up recently?

Komokom, in order to save your few remaining frying pans, we will use our billiard cues for the same purpose.

In game terms, communism can be in the game. Too bad if you don't like it. Not everyone shares your opinions.

In real life terms, communism, like all other government types, has its problems and benifets. No government is perfect. Keep that in mind.

KILL COMMUNISM FOR EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:evil: :twisted:

I oppose people who are intoloerant of over governments policies

KILL COMMUNISM FOR EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:evil: :twisted:

Now, making note of your post count,

Seven may be considered by some a lucky number, but keep that up and it won't. We don't take kindly to your kind around here. My dear Ennish, hand me one of your billiard cues. :?

I oppose people who are intoloerant of over governments policies

Good on you, its that kind of open championing of tolerance that makes one re-take their faith, in part, in some of the people here.

What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly - that is the first law of nature.

- The Rep of Komokom.

In Laio, we have a very simple method of dealing with those that cannot seperate reality from ficition. They are forced to listen to the Spice Girls and Britney Spears... 24/7.

You know... Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people... we should give it another chance....

No, megalomaniacal dictators and their idiotic followers killed millions of people. Communism has killed no-one.

Oh, and before you continue trying to take the moral high ground, don't forget the millions that have died as a result of imperialism and capitalist expansion. The number would certainly be far greater anyway.

In Laio, we have a very simple method of dealing with those that cannot seperate reality for ficition. They are forced to listen to the Spice Girls and Britney Spears... 24/7.
:shock: We banned such methods a long time ago!

Tactical Grace
UN Delegate / Minister of War / Defence Consultancy
Mercia The Next Generation (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_region/region=Mercia_The_Next_Generation)

I would vote for this.

Sorry I will vote for this proposal. If only I was delegate. *sigh*

In the real world, experience has taught us that people have too much of a sense of individuality to handle communism, and as such, it doesn't work when applied to humans.

What some people seem to be forgetting is that NS citizens ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE! Therefore communism works no worse than any other government here, and any arguments in favour of this proposal kinda fall down.

Last time I checked, Kropotkin wasn't a Bolshevic. There is more than one kind of communism.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Uh, it´s time to point out again that dictatorships can happen in any ideology, in any country.

Communist Soviet Union was ruled by dictators most of the time, specially during Stalinist period, as Communist China since the Maoist revolution. These regimes killed millions of people.

South America, for a time spam of 35 years between the late 50´s and mid 80´s, was ruled by several dictators, each one on their own country. They ran capitalist regimes that used to lick the boots of the greatest capitalist country of the world, and killed millions of people.

Which regime is the best? A potentially dictatorial communist regime, or a potentially dictatorial capitalist regime?

So, please, from now on, learn to distinguish between Communism and Dictatorship before vomiting about human slaughtering.

You know... Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people... we should give it another chance....

(the pope nearly spills his grail of ayahuasca in laughter)

We do not need a law to ban communism, it's pathetic, weak, unrealistic philosophy will doom it as is. Just take a look at the world. The most capitalist country produced the internet, the most communist country has resorted to eating rodents and canabalism. Not really hard to distinguish which philosophy works :)

Long live freedom, choice, markets, and LOW TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His Holiness Pope Liam the Psychedelian, Pontiff of the Church of Psychotropics and Founder of Shambhala

Communism hasn't killed anyone, because it has never existed as anything but a theory. The countries that have claimed/are claiming to be communist, are not infact applying it in the way the theory was stated.

Also you said that communism is unrealistic. The only actually fact in your entire post. The reason no one has been able to properly administer communism is because in order for communism to truely work 100% of the country must buy into communism, if even a small number do not, it can destroy the economy. In that sense it is unrealistic. Also many of the "communistic leaders" uses parts of communism to better theirselves at their citzens expense, which shows that they did not truely buy into the idea of communism (or at least chose not to).

Thirdly, as a church member I don't see how you can be so pro capitialism. Capitalism while it is more practical in practice then communism, it is so because it runs off the very worst aspects of human nature. The very aspects that the church would call sinful. Capitalism brings the worst out of society and slowly destroys it's people's moral fiber.

So to sum up. I find it highly unlikely that a country could sucessfully pull of a communist government. But if they were to do so, it would be far better than any country out their. That being the case, if a country wants to attempt such a government, the have the Community of Dinner4JC's full support.

I am strongly apposed to a ban on Communism.

You know... Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people... we should give it another chance....

(the pope nearly spills his grail of ayahuasca in laughter)

We do not need a law to ban communism, it's pathetic, weak, unrealistic philosophy will doom it as is. Just take a look at the world. The most capitalist country produced the internet, the most communist country has resorted to eating rodents and canabalism. Not really hard to distinguish which philosophy works :)

Long live freedom, choice, markets, and LOW TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His Holiness Pope Liam the Psychedelian, Pontiff of the Church of Psychotropics and Founder of Shambhala

Communism hasn't killed anyone, because it has never existed as anything but a theory. The countries that have claimed/are claiming to be communist, are not infact applying it in the way the theory was stated.

Also you said that communism is unrealistic. The only actually fact in your entire post. The reason no one has been able to properly administer communism is because in order for communism to truely work 100% of the country must buy into communism, if even a small number do not, it can destroy the economy. In that sense it is unrealistic. Also many of the "communistic leaders" uses parts of communism to better theirselves at their citzens expense, which shows that they did not truely buy into the idea of communism (or at least chose not to).

Thirdly, as a church member I don't see how you can be so pro capitialism. Capitalism while it is more practical in practice then communism, it is so because it runs off the very worst aspects of human nature. The very aspects that the church would call sinful. Capitalism brings the worst out of society and slowly destroys it's people's moral fiber.

So to sum up. I find it highly unlikely that a country could sucessfully pull of a communist government. But if they were to do so, it would be far better than any country out their. That being the case, if a country wants to attempt such a government, the have the Community of Dinner4JC's full support.

I am strongly apposed to a ban on Communism.

The most honorable Dinner4jc delegate is severly miguided in assuming that the Holy Church of Psychotropics is opposed to capitalism. We members of the Church of Psychotropics believe in that which has proven to work from the beginning of civilization. Capitalism works perfectly..... as it is based on competition (Darwinism... survival of the fittest), and greed. All humans want more than they have... ergo by allowing people to work towards satisfying their own cravings, the motivation for work is there. Having multiple companies and products that produce redundancy also lowers the cost to the consummer and spurs development.

Communism on the other hand, is based on an absolute faulty argument that ignores human nature. By forcing humans to become nothing more than "cogs in the machine" the will to work disappears. Having the State controll everything leads to the worst possible quality of goods and services...... think of it this way in regards to services, goto a 5 star resort hotel and compare the service to the DMV. When government stands in the way of progress you kill your economy... USSR, N.Korea, Cuba, China (until they adopted to market system recently) are all shining (or should I say pathetic) examples of communist ideals destroying incredible markets. As the 3rd law realized to His Holiness Pope Liam from a conversation with a divine machine elf states "Governemnt can do anything the private markets can do for twice the cost, twice the time, and half the quality" The only area where governement actually excells is in waging war. Though private armies might actually qork better... the idea of people having their own private armies is just too disturbing.

So to sum up. I find it highly unlikely that a country could sucessfully pull of a communist government. But if they were to do so, it would be far better than any country out their. That being the case, if a country wants to attempt such a government, the have the Community of Dinner4JC's full support.

How can a failed, unrealistic ideology be better than that which has proven to work ? How can an ideology that that is based on the antiquated notion of "class struggle" work ?

It cannot, and every country that has tried has failed.

Capitolism gave the world the Internet.
Communism has produced such mass starvation that people who live in the land of "Juche" are eating their own dead.

I do not support a ban on communism.... but I do support everyones right to expose it for the fraud that it is.

Bishop Gates, High Minister of Information and Trade

Capitalism works perfectly..... as it is based on competition (Darwinism... survival of the fittest), and greed. All humans want more than they have... ergo by allowing people to work towards satisfying their own cravings, the motivation for work is there.

Are those not all things that the church fights againist? Darwimism, greed, ect.

Communism wouldn't turn humans into cogs on a machine, but it would function exactly the economy of the first church as described in Acts. The apostles sold off all their possesions and shared all that they owned for the good of all. "All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need." Acts 2:44-45

Thank you,

The Communal Leader of Dinner4JC
The Community of Dinner4JC
The Allied States of the Isles

"How can a failed, unrealistic ideology be better than that which has proven to work?"


It's an ideology for a reason: because it's IDEAL. I find a paradox in your statement. How can something both be an ideology, AND have failed? The unrealistic part is purely opinion.

Secondly, I hope you aren't claiming that capitalism has been *proven* to work. I find two issues with this. First, you can never *prove* anything, you can only *disprove* it. In the context of communism, it's never been tested in its proper form, so it has YET to be disproven. However, we are currently watching capitalism be tested, so we will see if it fails. We will never see if it is proven. That's just how the world works.

By the way, the United States is still a very young country. Just give it time to become as notoriously corrupt and "failed" as any other.

"How can a failed, unrealistic ideology be better than that which has proven to work?"


It's an ideology for a reason: because it's IDEAL. I find a paradox in your statement. How can something both be an ideology, AND have failed? The unrealistic part is purely opinion.

Secondly, I hope you aren't claiming that capitalism has been *proven* to work. I find two issues with this. First, you can never *prove* anything, you can only *disprove* it. In the context of communism, it's never been tested in its proper form, so it has YET to be disproven. However, we are currently watching capitalism be tested, so we will see if it fails. We will never see if it is proven. That's just how the world works.

By the way, the United States is still a very young country. Just give it time to become as notoriously corrupt and "failed" as any other.

Excellent point.

Capitalism works perfectly..... as it is based on competition (Darwinism... survival of the fittest), and greed. All humans want more than they have... ergo by allowing people to work towards satisfying their own cravings, the motivation for work is there.

Are those not all things that the church fights againist? Darwimism, greed, ect.

Communism wouldn't turn humans into cogs on a machine, but it would function exactly the economy of the first church as described in Acts. The apostles sold off all their possesions and shared all that they owned for the good of all. "All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need." Acts 2:44-45

Thank you,

The Communal Leader of Dinner4JC
The Community of Dinner4JC
The Allied States of the Isles

You delusion of the Teachings of the Church of Psychotropics are astounding. We are not a Christian Church and have never claimed to be one. We are a church based on the mystical realizations via our sacrements of DMT, LSD, Psylocin, Mescalin, and Ayahuasca. By using these sacrememnts our church has come to the conclusion of never standing in the way of progress, science or reality. If your opinion is in conflict with reality, then change your opinion.

The Holy Trinity of the Church of Psychotropics is as follows:
Freedom, Happiness and Enlightenment

Cardinal Usuri, Chief Minister of Psychedelic Freedoms

Capitalism works perfectly..... as it is based on competition (Darwinism... survival of the fittest), and greed. All humans want more than they have... ergo by allowing people to work towards satisfying their own cravings, the motivation for work is there.

Are those not all things that the church fights againist? Darwimism, greed, ect.

Communism wouldn't turn humans into cogs on a machine, but it would function exactly the economy of the first church as described in Acts. The apostles sold off all their possesions and shared all that they owned for the good of all. "All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need." Acts 2:44-45

Thank you,

The Communal Leader of Dinner4JC
The Community of Dinner4JC
The Allied States of the Isles

You delusion of the Teachings of the Church of Psychotropics are astounding. We are not a Christian Church and have never claimed to be one. We are a church based on the mystical realizations via our sacrements of DMT, LSD, Psylocin, Mescalin, and Ayahuasca. By using these sacrememnts our church has come to the conclusion of never standing in the way of progress, science or reality. If your opinion is in conflict with reality, then change your opinion.

The Holy Trinity of the Church of Psychotropics is as follows:
Freedom, Happiness and Enlightenment

Cardinal Usuri, Chief Minister of Psychedelic Freedoms

Oh well I appologize. I had no way of knowing that your "church" was not Christian. Had you said that, I would not have disagreed with you.

Good day,

The Communal Leader of Dinner4JC
The Community of Dinner4JC
The Allied States of the Isles

Capitalism works perfectly..... as it is based on competition (Darwinism... survival of the fittest), and greed. All humans want more than they have... ergo by allowing people to work towards satisfying their own cravings, the motivation for work is there.

Are those not all things that the church fights againist? Darwimism, greed, ect.

Communism wouldn't turn humans into cogs on a machine, but it would function exactly the economy of the first church as described in Acts. The apostles sold off all their possesions and shared all that they owned for the good of all. "All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need." Acts 2:44-45

Thank you,

The Communal Leader of Dinner4JC
The Community of Dinner4JC
The Allied States of the Isles

You delusion of the Teachings of the Church of Psychotropics are astounding. We are not a Christian Church and have never claimed to be one. We are a church based on the mystical realizations via our sacrements of DMT, LSD, Psylocin, Mescalin, and Ayahuasca. By using these sacrememnts our church has come to the conclusion of never standing in the way of progress, science or reality. If your opinion is in conflict with reality, then change your opinion.

The Holy Trinity of the Church of Psychotropics is as follows:
Freedom, Happiness and Enlightenment

Cardinal Usuri, Chief Minister of Psychedelic Freedoms

Oh well I appologize. I had no way of knowing that your "church" was not Christian. Had you said that, I would not have disagreed with you.

Good day,

The Communal Leader of Dinner4JC
The Community of Dinner4JC
The Allied States of the Isles

Try googling the word Psychotropics :)

By the way, the United States is still a very young country. Just give it time to become as notoriously corrupt and "failed" as any other.

Hmm. I think my watch must be broken.

What judges a nation's success? Economic power? That's a senseless argument. Economic power is nothing in the abstract: it is only justified by its effects. A nation that is economically powerful has already failed if that doesn't translate into a better standard of living across the board for its citizens; even if it continues to conquer and dominate, it has failed because this success is purposeless.
While Rehochipe is not, strictly speaking, a communist nation, we are certainly opposed to capitalism. We view it as a system that encourages stepping on the heads of others to get to the top of the pile, and we consider that to be a pretty sordid way of living. For the social evolutionists we have nothing but pity.

Just a few misconceptions here that we feel we should correct...

We members of the Church of Psychotropics believe in that which has proven to work from the beginning of civilization.
Well, "beginning of civilisation" is pushing it a bit. Most (very early) civilisations seem to have started off with some sort of basic communism. Many survived that way up until the last couple of hundred years - Native Americans and Aboriginal Australians being a couple of examples. Which makes this point problematic:

Communism on the other hand, is based on an absolute faulty argument that ignores human nature.

Thing is, there ain't no such animal as human nature. Or, at the very least, we have no idea whether humans are actually born with this "innate" greed or whether it's learnt. Given that there have been societies that genuinely lack any concept of personal property, it's pushing it a bit to claim that selfishness is an unchangeable part of human nature. But we genuinely don't know where the balance between our genetic inheritance and learnt behaviour lies. Until we find out more, dismissing communism on the grounds of "human nature" just won't wash.

Having the State controll everything leads to the worst possible quality of goods and services

Entirely untrue. In Britain, it's been proven over and over that government-owned, centrally run railways and hospitals provide a cheaper and more efficient service than lots of competing private enterprises. That's at least partly because privatisation creates so much redundancy and duplication of resources and partly because the private sector needs to skim profit off the top of everything.

USSR, N.Korea, Cuba, China (until they adopted to market system recently) are all shining (or should I say pathetic) examples of communist ideals destroying incredible markets.

Again, entirely untrue. Russia was a feudal peasantry about 2-300 years behind the rest of Europe in development until the revolution. Within 50 years it had put a man in space, built a huge nuclear arsenal and was more-or-less matching the US in terms of scientific advances. It was also doing a far better job of feeding, clothing and providing healthcare and education for its people than pre-revolutionary Russia had done. Likewise, Cuba remains way ahead of any countries of comparable size or resources in terms of looking after its citizens.
Mind, I don't actually consider any of the countries that you've named genuinely communist - truly communist countries are democratic, while most of the supposedly "communist" real-world states have been benevolent - or not-so-benevolent - dictatorships.
But the fact is that the "communist" revolutions that we've seen in the real world have all been in backward states that were already failing under capitalism and really not suited to communism in the first place. One of the basic tenets of communism is that countries have to develop a fairly advanced capitalism before they can get to communism, which hadn't happened in the USSR, Cuba, China or North Korea.

How can a failed, unrealistic ideology be better than that which has proven to work?

Define "work" in the context of a world where around 2 billion people are starving, please. Oh wait, no doubt it's their own fault for not being selfish enough.

How can an ideology that that is based on the antiquated notion of "class struggle" work ?

How is this notion antiquated? The class struggle still exists. All that has happened is that most of your goods are now made by exploited workers in Mexico or Haiti rather than Detroit or Bradford. There's still a working class whose interests are completely opposed to those of the capitalists. It's just that you no longer have to see them on a day-to-day basis.

Capitolism gave the world the Internet.

Well, the Capitol gave the world the internet, yes. It was a military project - that is, a nationalised enterprise funded by the government, as most of the major technological advances this century have been. Nothing to do with private-sector research.

"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality." (Golden Text: 2 Corinthians 8:14)

Nuff said.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Just a few misconceptions here that we feel we should correct...

We members of the Church of Psychotropics believe in that which has proven to work from the beginning of civilization.
Well, "beginning of civilisation" is pushing it a bit. Most (very early) civilisations seem to have started off with some sort of basic communism. Many survived that way up until the last couple of hundred years - Native Americans and Aboriginal Australians being a couple of examples. Which makes this point problematic:

Communism on the other hand, is based on an absolute faulty argument that ignores human nature.

Thing is, there ain't no such animal as human nature. Or, at the very least, we have no idea whether humans are actually born with this "innate" greed or whether it's learnt. Given that there have been societies that genuinely lack any concept of personal property, it's pushing it a bit to claim that selfishness is an unchangeable part of human nature. But we genuinely don't know where the balance between our genetic inheritance and learnt behaviour lies. Until we find out more, dismissing communism on the grounds of "human nature" just won't wash.

Having the State controll everything leads to the worst possible quality of goods and services

Entirely untrue. In Britain, it's been proven over and over that government-owned, centrally run railways and hospitals provide a cheaper and more efficient service than lots of competing private enterprises. That's at least partly because privatisation creates so much redundancy and duplication of resources and partly because the private sector needs to skim profit off the top of everything.

USSR, N.Korea, Cuba, China (until they adopted to market system recently) are all shining (or should I say pathetic) examples of communist ideals destroying incredible markets.

Again, entirely untrue. Russia was a feudal peasantry about 2-300 years behind the rest of Europe in development until the revolution. Within 50 years it had put a man in space, built a huge nuclear arsenal and was more-or-less matching the US in terms of scientific advances. It was also doing a far better job of feeding, clothing and providing healthcare and education for its people than pre-revolutionary Russia had done. Likewise, Cuba remains way ahead of any countries of comparable size or resources in terms of looking after its citizens.
Mind, I don't actually consider any of the countries that you've named genuinely communist - truly communist countries are democratic, while most of the supposedly "communist" real-world states have been benevolent - or not-so-benevolent - dictatorships.
But the fact is that the "communist" revolutions that we've seen in the real world have all been in backward states that were already failing under capitalism and really not suited to communism in the first place. One of the basic tenets of communism is that countries have to develop a fairly advanced capitalism before they can get to communism, which hadn't happened in the USSR, Cuba, China or North Korea.

How can a failed, unrealistic ideology be better than that which has proven to work?

Define "work" in the context of a world where around 2 billion people are starving, please. Oh wait, no doubt it's their own fault for not being selfish enough.

How can an ideology that that is based on the antiquated notion of "class struggle" work ?

How is this notion antiquated? The class struggle still exists. All that has happened is that most of your goods are now made by exploited workers in Mexico or Haiti rather than Detroit or Bradford. There's still a working class whose interests are completely opposed to those of the capitalists. It's just that you no longer have to see them on a day-to-day basis.

Capitolism gave the world the Internet.

Well, the Capitol gave the world the internet, yes. It was a military project - that is, a nationalised enterprise funded by the government, as most of the major technological advances this century have been. Nothing to do with private-sector research.

Karl Marx ? Is that you ?

Laughingly read through your "argument".. more like propaganda really.

Communism != Socialism. Try not to equate the two.

Bishop Hassan, Minister of Intollerance for all Psychotropics

"Touch my stuff and I will pop a cap into you."

Universal Church of the Mo-Town Experience

Hey, while we are at it, lets be aggressive to all political systems which have the odd practical fault.....oooops..wait, that'll include every system invented since civilisation began.

Laughingly read through your "argument".. more like propaganda really.
Then counter it...

Communism != Socialism. Try not to equate the two.
Since everybody on this board seems to have a different definition of both communism and socialism, I'd be interested to hear which ones you're using here.

Karl Marx ? Is that you ?

Aw shucks, outed.

Comrade Marx
Delegate for Propaganda

See you Bigjobs, whate're Komokom, an' Bahgum an' Enn said, cos they're oor pals an' they kin tak a dram or twa an' we'll deal wi' onnywan who's goin'tae start wi' them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Aw shucks, outed.

Comrade Marx
Delegate for Propaganda
I knew it....

What? A friend of a friend told me.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

At the close of the representative from East Hackney's speech, the representative from Rehochipe is noted to stab a fist in the air, and then look rather embarrassed and withdraw it.

Communism is a form of government that promotes equality between all citizens. There is no more reason to outlaw communism that there is to outlaw capitalism.

Communism is equality, and without equality, anyone could rise into a position of power, and absolute power, as we all well know corrupts absolutely.

Communism is a legitimate form of government, and an excellent human rights movement to help the common citizens, nothing should be able to outlaw this human rights movement.

First, I oppose this proposal as being ridiculous... let's ban the right-wing, fascist christians first :P .

Communism is a form of government that promotes equality between all citizens.

When is this going to happen... there is no communist gov't that has ever done so.

an excellent human rights movement to help the common citizens

Hey, time to take your reality pill. Can anyone give me one example of a communist gov't that has ever had a "good" human rights accord.

Can anyone give me one example of a communist gov't that has ever had a "good" human rights accord.

Well, East Hackney's civil rights currently stand at "superb"...oh, you mean in that other world, right? The entirely imaginary one?

I am so glad that there are still so many people that believe in the goodness of communism.

My AKA has always (almost) been LeniN.

My father studied in the Soviet Union, and he taught me how wonderful Communism really is.



The reason for which it has failed to spread worldwide is (as stated before) because humans tend to be Selfish or Lazy.

Luckily, "humans" in this awesome game do not posses such qualities (most of the time) thus, you can count on them to make communism work.



My nation is currently an "Inofensive Centrist Democracy", but I hope soon it becomes a "Father Knows Best State".



That would be the success of communism for me.... :D





BTW: East Hackney, you rock man. 8)

First, I oppose this proposal as being ridiculous... let's ban the right-wing, fascist christians first :P .

Communism is a form of government that promotes equality between all citizens.

When is this going to happen... there is no communist gov't that has ever done so.

an excellent human rights movement to help the common citizens

Hey, time to take your reality pill. Can anyone give me one example of a communist gov't that has ever had a "good" human rights accord.

Like I said before, there has never been a true communist government. Just a bunch of dictators who exploted the idea of communism for their own selfish purposes.

Already stated, but here it goes anyway. There has never been a true communist nation because there has never been a classless society. All of the communism we know is authoritarian dictators taking advantage of the masses. Now that we've dispelled that from our system, take a brief look at this game. As unrealistic as it sometimes is (it is still fun) a lot of political ideologies that work here would never work in the real would. As much as I like communism, human nature doesn't allow it, so, in this game I can be as 'commie' as I want and it still works. I've used thise in other arguments as well. If you want to ban communism, I'll try to ban capitalism. But I don't because i recognize it as a political philosophy that can exist within NS. So, with all due respect, lets just back off from the whole banning commies thing, alright? It just doesn't work.

i am not saing we should moderate the game so there is no more communism, if u have even read my proposal, u would know that people. i am just suggesting a resolution to discourage the use of communism, by making several embargos against communist nations.

Speaking on behalf of the Holy Empire of Grand Hobgoblonia, a happily oppressive monarchy with lots of privatized markets, I say banning Communism is a silly idea. Even as a proponent of a mostly privatized system in our own nation, Grand Hobgoblonia cannot say that a Communist evil dictatorship or Communist democracy utopia would not be good for another country.

If Grand Hobgoblonia were to advocate banning Communism, it would be out of fear of Communist countries being stronger than the Holy Empire, and this is simply not the case. Our Monarch is undisputed leader! Hurrah!

i am not saing we should moderate the game so there is no more communism, if u have even read my proposal, u would know that people. i am just suggesting a resolution to discourage the use of communism, by making several embargos against communist nations.

How bout making embargos against Capitalistic nations, do you think that would work any better? Again, its taking steps towards banning communism, something that won't work on NS. Plus the title of the thread is no more communism, that screams banning communism, not 'regulating' it as you would put it.

Better yet... let's embargo all nations that contain a minimum of one christian. It is obvious that these people are just trouble-makers and fanatics.

Stop for a mo' and think why your proposal is getting so much opposition. It opens a door that is best left closed.

How bout making embargos against Capitalistic nations, do you think that would work any better?

Kamquin Dakar, Minister for Trade and Industry, is observed to assume an expression of angelic innocence, to whistle a tuneless version of The Judges are going to Jail, and to roll his eyes towards the ceiling.

1. This proposal doesn't limit ur gov choices, just dissaproves communist nations
2. COMMUNISM DOESNT WORK, it is unfair. It promises a classless society(NOT EQUALITY FOR ALL). How can a gov create a classless society, when the dicator is treated better, along with his cronies, than anyone else?!?

Communism is a paradox, it says that there are no classes, yet the governing body is in itself a class with better treatment. VOTE FOR THIS PROPOSAL!

2. COMMUNISM DOESNT WORK, it is unfair. It promises a classless society(NOT EQUALITY FOR ALL). How can a gov create a classless society, when the dicator is treated better, along with his cronies, than anyone else?!?

Communism is a paradox, it says that there are no classes, yet the governing body is in itself a class with better treatment. VOTE FOR THIS PROPOSAL!

True Communism doesn't have a dictator.

How can a gov create a classless society, when the dicator is treated better, along with his cronies, than anyone else?!?

Communism is a paradox, it says that there are no classes, yet the governing body is in itself a class with better treatment.

East Hackney is a communist nation. It has no dictator and no cronies. Nor do our governmental delegates receive better treatment than any other citizen.
Is the esteemed nation of CONFORM perhaps confusing the real world - in which East Hackney resides, as do all our nations - with that entirely fictional world containing such evil dictatorships as the USSR and North Korea?

Comrade Marx
Delegate for Propaganda

I find it highly ironic and amusing that this argument is coming from nations such as The Empire of the Gathering Darkness and the Holy Empire of CONFORM, who shout and wail about Communism's oppressions of peoples and their class lies and lack of equality, when, according the UN's World Report:

The Empire of the Gathering Darkness:
* "Unheard of Political Freedoms

and

The Holy Empire of CONFORM:
* "Unheard of Civil Rights"
* "Few Political Freedoms"

Even more ironic as presumeably these nations argue that capitalist regimes should be encouraged, a capitalist or libertarian mindset would dictate that it's any nation's choice whether to be Communist or Fascist or Christian or Crazy Corporate Capitalist. It is the Capitalist Nation's responsibility to capitalize with whatever nation they trade with.

That is all.
And this coming from a privatized oppressive monarchy. Hmmf.

Sincerely yours,
Prime Minister Baragh IV,
Loyal Servant of the One True Monarch of Hobgoblonia

"Communism!... socialism?... zzz-ism..."

* The Rep of Komokom falls into a temporary coma when realising this is yet another debate on banning/limiting/bad-mouthing political ideology of any sort... :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

Here's a good site for some real communism:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/kropotkin/conquest/toc.html


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Here's a good site for some real communism:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/kropotkin/conquest/toc.html

Hopefully some people may learn something from it...

Priceless. Yet again, we have delegates spouting the belief that communism is a hopeless ideology which makes no allowance for human nature and at the same time do not recognise that this is true of libertarian capitalism for exactly the same reason.

I note that Psychotropic delegate is yet to properly reply to Comrade Marx of East Hackney. Can it be that he has nor response? That - gasp - his argument may well prove to be built from a house of cards, an edifice of pink, fluffy clouds?

Actually, that does sound kind of appealling...

Vlad Taneev
Speaker for the Economy, in search of what the Psychotropics are on.

Just because Communism hasn't been seen to work adequately yet doesn't mean that it won't ever be. What nonsesne this thread is.

the DSH accepts the opinion of some member states that communism could be considered fundamentally unworkable. It is our opinion that it fails to consider the innate greed of the human race, and that it would be almost impossible to overturn millenia of human behaviour in a short period of time.

However, it is also our opinion that Nation states should be permitted to attempt to reach communism without undue pressure or legislation from other member states or from the un. While we are aware of the flaws in communism, it does not stop the DSH hoping it will one day be created and sustainable.
_________________________
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/hirota.jpgThe Democratic States of Hirota (DSH) (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=hirota)
http://www.nationstates.net/images/un_member.gif For the region of cm4rums (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/32808/page=display_region/region=cm4rums)

On the topic of whether communism/capitalism have 'failed' or 'succeeded'... (in the imaginary world containing USSR et al).

Surely it could be argued that feudalism was incredibly successfull, as it survived for some 500 years (approx 800-1300), while capitalism/communism have only been around for about 100 years.

Or better yet, an autocratic theocratic police state! There was one of those that lasted, let me see... 3000-odd years? Don't tell me you've never heared of Egypt.

Note: Please do not make the mistake of believing that we are in favour of either of these political models. I'm just making a point about how you can measure success and failure.

Feudalism and an autocratic police state such as Egypt couldn't possible exist where people have been educated. The masses clearly wouldn't stand for it. In these times of decreasing religious faith, there is less justification for systems which support peoples birthrights and more for those that support equality. Communism will work eventually, and it is the ideal we should strive for.

Exactly. Slavery existed for millenia and I think it still does in places. That doesn't justify it.

I could argue that capitalism is slavery of a new kind, though.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether communism is a legitmate form of government or not, it doesn't matter if it works in theory, or practice, or not. It doesn't matter because communist regimes represent the people of the nations they govern.

Outlawing communism with a resolution would only mean that an enormous amount of the world's population would go unrepresented -- and that, in our view, just will not do.

The same goes with any form of government. What alarms us, mostly, is many UN members' apparent ambition to legislate nothing other than liberal democratic policies to it's assembly, while it drifts off into some delusional organization which passes resolutions no other government would, or should, abide by.


-- Slobodan Blenderovic, guest speaker (for Evil-Catzegovina, pending official UN confirmation.)

Exactly. Slavery existed for millenia and I think it still does in places. That doesn't justify it.

I could argue that capitalism is slavery of a new kind, though.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Delusional rantings have no place on these forums. A system of government and economics that allows for anyone to try anything is the OPPOSITE of slavery. Communism makes slaves out of every citizen!

Bishop Hassan, Minister of Intollerance for all Psychotropics

In capitalism, you're a slave to the market. What idiot would advocate being a slave to something intangible?

Vlad Taneev
Speaker for the Economy

In capitalism, you're a slave to the market. What idiot would advocate being a slave to something intangible?

Vlad Taneev
Speaker for the Economy

Intangible? Ye cannae eat it, swallee it, nor fight it?

Wha's the point then?

Intangible? Ye cannae eat it, swallee it, nor fight it?

Wha's the point then?

No' ainly that, wee man, but it'll try to tax yer whisky.

Try tae tax yer whisky? W'need tae sort the f'ckas oot!

In Bahgum we tax shandy, snakebite and Babycham at 500%, Whisky, fine wine, bitter, heavy and other excellent tipples are, of course, tax free. We also quite like our Communist neighbours, as they supply some mighty fine vodka.

First, I would like to say that if you haven't read Das Kapital, don't type a word in this thread.

Secondly, I would like to point out one thing that most, although not all, in this thread has forgotten and that is that there has NEVER existed a COMMUNIST nation in the real-life WORLD.

First, I would like to say that if you haven't read Das Kapital, don't type a word in this thread.

Secondly, I would like to point out one thing that most, although not all, in this thread has forgotten and that is that there has NEVER existed a COMMUNIST nation in the real-life WORLD.

I think i made that point a couple of pages back :)

First, I would like to say that if you haven't read Das Kapital, don't type a word in this thread.

Secondly, I would like to point out one thing that most, although not all, in this thread has forgotten and that is that there has NEVER existed a COMMUNIST nation in the real-life WORLD.

I think i made that point a couple of pages back :)


Yeah, but some people needs clarification, those dumbasses. :D