NationStates Jolt Archive

This is my first try at a bill....so be gentle ;)

Free Beer

Social Justice

The United Nations at NationStates

Welcoming the increase in social welfare resulting from free services;

Keeping in mind the ratio of costs versus benefits;

Noting with satisfaction that free services for foreign guests will increase tourism income;

Declaring the cost of free beer to be negligible compared to its great benefits;

Convinced that the small monetary cost of such a benefit may be spread over the populous and visitors alike;

Expecting that providing a commodity for free will increase consumption of that commodity;

Deeply regretting that increased consumption of alcoholic beverages can lead to deteriorated health and/or social incompetence;

Recognizing that individual goods may be rationed to prevent overconsumption;

Keeping in mind the right of individual nations to ban alcohol consumption entirely or by certain age groups;

1. Requests that beer will be provided free to all citizens and visitors of legal age in any country that allows alcohol consumption;

2. Recommends a meager tax increase to cover the costs in any nation with taxes;

3. Recommends also a small Customs fee for foreign guests, to be known as the "Cover Charge".

4. Supports the privilege of nations to ration free beer to prevent overconsumption.

What category is this proposal in?

Brfitopia... a backward and poor nation, but noted for having a genius for a leader. Unlike most Brfitopians, his parents were not related :twisted: .

The Grand Duchy of Laio supports this draft proposal. It is gratifying to final see a worthy draft resolution appear before this august body. We would have supported it, even if it had mandated all nations adopt the Brfitopian diet... beer, pickled eggs and pigs-feet :shock: .

beer, pickled eggs and pigs-feet :shock: .

Not to mention toad-kebabs :D

The catagory is Social Justice ... as implied by the description.... I will add it to the top post

OMG... please, don't remind me of the toad-kebobs... I saw the pictures.

OMG... please, don't remind me of the toad-kebobs... I saw the pictures.
This one?

http://home.insightbb.com/~b.fermanich/Toad.jpg


Mmmmmmmmmmm........

We encourage partying and having a good time- which can include alcohol- but we consider that to be a luxury. Luxuries should not be free- only necessities.

You try living on toad-kebobs, I bet beer would become a necessity... then.

Luxuries should not be free- only necessities.

Why not? Or rather, nothing is actually free. With this "free beer proposal", the beer isn't actually free. It's just produced for and by the entirety of the people for the consumption of the entirety of the people.

And there's nothing wrong with that. When you consider that production of larger quantities of goods is cheaper per unit than the production of smaller quantities of goods - it actually makes a lot of sense to pay for it all up front and then distribute it to the individual people for "free".

Or to put it another way, imagine for a moment that you have twenty four people who all want a beer. They can each buy a beer, which will set them back about 6 bottle caps a piece. Or they could split into four groups and each buy a sixpack - at 20 bottle caps each. Or they could all pool their money and chip in for a twentyfour case - which in turn would cost a whole 50 bottlecaps and come with a brewsky for everyone.

Now consider, 50 bottle caps is a lot more than 6, but when shared equitably it's only about 2 caps each. In fact, even if we assume that half the people can't even afford their beer, and want to free ride it's still a better deal for the richer people to float them on it than to buy their own beer.

The twelve most affluent people can chip in 4 bottle caps, and the richest can throw down the extra 2, and then all twenty four people can have a brew out of the case.

Net result: the richest person pays no more than he did before, eleven more people get a discount, and twelve people get a beer for free. This sort of supermarket supersizing is where government programs make the most sense. Everyone wants beer, and not everyone can afford it.

But if everyone who can afford it chips in, we can all drink to our heart's content and it will still be a net savings thanks to the price disparities between micro and macro production scales.

Good Night Everyone.

Greetings:

The RCO cannot possibly support this bill. ONLY free beer? Come on. Now, if the bill also made free certain cheap forms of liquor (perhaps burboun or vodka), THEN you would have our full support.

Nice first attempt, though.

With Respect,
Minister of Foreign Affairs Voegelin, Royal Commonwealth of Oakeshottland.

If we're talking about nationalizing the beer industry, then there is a difference. In such a case, the government assumes responsibility for producing the beer and regulates the prices, and only those who want the beer will ultimately pay for it (production could be linked directly to the amount of money this "beer fee" brings in). If we're talking about taxpayers' money being diverted to give everyone "free beer", then people who don't wish to buy a beer still pays for those who do.

Regardless, we still do not support it. As we see it, "beer" is a luxury item- you do not *need* beer to survive. You need fluids, obviously, but it doesn't *have* to be beer- if the government was to divert tax money to the production of any drinks, it should be water only, because people need water and not beer. Plus, we do not believe in "regulating fun" as this proposal suggests. The people should be allowed to overindulge if they want- it is not the government's place to tell people what to do with themselves. Besides, what is to stop a government from saying they won't ship the beer to places like clubs and parties, only allowing beer in "special places" that could be so government-regulated that it wouldn't be fun?

This proposal may be fun on the surface for party animals, but think realistically for a second- do you REALLY want governments controlling your parties? There's way too many loopholes, not to mention those who do not drink beer will not support a resolution that demands they pay for it anyway.

RomeW still does not support it.

So we get beer that we don't have to pay for?

This is the best proposal ever.

Seriously.

This measure will have my full and unconditional support as soon as someone can find my pen which I may have left at the bar.

Don't make me come over there.

We think this proposal is fine, provided that it takes place specifically within the Strangers Bar. Beyond that, we don't think much of it.

Hannah and Stephanie, for Enn

you do not *need* beer to survive.

There are some who would disagree with that :D

I see we all pretty much understand where I was coming from when I wrote this...

As for making other alcoholic beverages free too.... I would consider that dangerous. I have heard of people dying from alcohol poisoning from drinking too much hard liquor....which is tough to do with beer, since you would have to drink so much...

Oh hey.... After I submitted this bill... I realized I made a funny... "Free Beer" - "Draft"

Oh...one more thing... this proposal does not require the governments to ration beer... it just suggests it as an option, if overconsumption causes too many health problems or a decrease in productivity.

you do not *need* beer to survive.

There are some who would disagree with that :D

I see we all pretty much understand where I was coming from when I wrote this...

As for making other alcoholic beverages free too.... I would consider that dangerous. I have heard of people dying from alcohol poisoning from drinking too much hard liquor....which is tough to do with beer, since you would have to drink so much...

Oh hey.... After I submitted this bill... I realized I made a funny... "Free Beer" - "Draft"

Oh...one more thing... this proposal does not require the governments to ration beer... it just suggests it as an option, if overconsumption causes too many health problems or a decrease in productivity.

OOC: I know where you're coming from with this- "free beer! Free parties! Yay!"- and, as a University student myself this sounds like a great idea- however, think rationally as a government. You're given unlimited power to control the beer flow. What's to stop governments from over-regulating parties to the point where it is not fun?

IC: Our position remains unchanged. It is not the government's responsibility to regulate the "fun" our citizens are allowed to have.

OK.... we have seen both sides of it....

As for the proposal itself... The grammar, spelling, and syntax is all OK? If so, I will consider submitting it as is.

People, people... please support this proposal. If you do not, soon Brfitopians will be wandering your neighborhoods... looking for beer. Even worse, they are always followed by Estiolanders :shock: .

I'm not saying that here is anything wrong or bad about Brfitopians and Estiolanders, but... would you want your sister to marry one :twisted: ?

This sort of supermarket supersizing is where government programs make the most sense.

The government of Rehochipe has never considered that supplying the needs of the masses must be in opposition to the exercise of good taste. However, we are troubled that the 'super-sizing' approach you recommend would lead, when employed on the national scale, to the prevalence of large-scale, uniform production, not only discouraging competition but also lowering standards and causing the extinction of specialists. Rehochipe is proud of its varied and picturesque microbreweries, and would be horrified to see them replaced by a tide of cheap lager. (If beer was free, there would be little incentive to produce anything but).

While we agree that it is very difficult to give oneself alcohol poisoning with beer, making the stuff free would be a mandate for irresponsible drinking. There would be no reason not to continue drinking; indeed, the underlying message is that alcohol is 'free' in every sense, including responsibility. Indeed, people would feel obliged to drink in order to get the most out of their tax contribution (and teetotalers, whether temporary or committed, would be taxed unjustly). Alcohol-related violence, drunk-driving and so forth would certainly increase significantly as a result.

We also have the impression that this policy is a throwaway crowd-pleaser, a bread-and-circuses gesture intended to satisfy the populace and distract them from more important issues.

Kamquin Dakar
Ministry of Trade and Industry

Hmm now I disagree about giving out free food, but free beer. Now that has possibilities. Can you give the proposal number so I can read up more?

Commander In Chief Matthew Rix
Dictator of Limavady
U.N Delegate for Ulstonia
Founder of Ulstonia

Rehochipe is proud of its varied and picturesque microbreweries, and would be horrified to see them replaced by a tide of cheap lager. (If beer was free, there would be little incentive to produce anything but).

Bah...you sound just like Estioland and Northrhine...

Hmm now I disagree about giving out free food, but free beer. Now that has possibilities. Can you give the proposal number so I can read up more?

This proposal hasnt been submitted yet. It is in the first post of this thread for right now....

great idea, but remember to support "mental disabled for low cost labor and involuntary military service"

Oh how the great parliament of Bahgum rejoiced at the reporting of this wise proposal. May the fortuitous blessings of a thousand barmaids visit your most wonderful leader. Let the heavens burst forth and shower your lands with fine single malts, shall your barpumps last a million moons......

This proposal as been submitted... Beer is already free in Brfitopia, as reflected in our motto. Visit and have a few before voting for it 8)

However, we are troubled that the 'super-sizing' approach you recommend would lead, when employed on the national scale, to the prevalence of large-scale, uniform production, not only discouraging competition but also lowering standards and causing the extinction of specialists. Rehochipe is proud of its varied and picturesque microbreweries, and would be horrified to see them replaced by a tide of cheap lager. (If beer was free, there would be little incentive to produce anything but).

Just curious, has the availability of cheap (or free) water done irreperable harm to the livelihoods of any beverage producers in your country (or any country)?

Having a baseline product, whether water or beer, which is free does not drive the quality of anygoods down. It drives them up.

Consider: you have the option of paying a man one bottle cap to fill your cup with water. Slightly gray, perhaps past its expiration date water. Alternately, you can pay two bottle caps to have anyother man fill your cup with reasonably clear water. Which would you buy? That depends, of course, on how many bottle caps you had to begin with, as well as how desperate or picky you were. Neither option is actually all that good, and the expense is fairly high.

But consider an alternate system: the government has collected bottle caps from everyone willing to pay and then sets up an aqueduct by which reasonably clear water can be collected and distributed to everyone for "free". The price of reasonably clear water has fallen drastically (thanks to the super sizing approach listed earlier), which drives both the seller of grayish water and the seller of reasonably clear water are going to lose their place in the economy unless they adapt.

The possible choices for adaption are to undersell the new competition (which is impossible), or to improve the quality of their own wares. Remember that you've still got a bottle cap or two which is apparently burning a whole in your pocket, and you're still thirsty. And while the government is wiling to give you reasonably clear water for "free" (in that you've already paid for it, at an incredible discount, by paying taxes the previous year), you may yet be willing to pay money in order to get some low-rad content filtered spring water. And unless they want to fold up shop - that's exactly what the water sellers are going to have to provide.

So when water of whatever quality is offered by the government for "free", not only can more people afford to drink it - but those who wish to pay for water will be getting a higher quality product.

Which is what you'll see for beer as well. Some people don't care what they drink - and will take the subsidized beer whatever it happens to be. However, for those of discerning pallet - the quality of all available market beers will have to rise to the level of whatever the "free" beer is.

This may well be bad for corporations - but it's all good for consumers. People who could not afford beer before are now getting beer at all, and those who can afford beer will be getting a higher quality of beer.

This proposal will grant more beer, and better beer.

Good night, everyone.

This proposal will grant more beer, and better beer.

Best proposal. Ever.

Don't make me come over there.

i say beer all around. I'll suport this purposal.

And while the government is wiling to give you reasonably clear water for "free"

Why do I keep seeing delegates acting as if "free" water is unusual??? In Real-Life my "City-Purified Tap Water" is less than 1-Dollar per day for as much as I can flush or wash with... I would consider that to be pretty much free...wouldnt you? If I go to the grocery store and buy filtered drinking water it is less than 50-cents per gallon... hardly a luxury.

His Holiness Pope Liam the Great, Pontiff of all Psychotropics and founder of Shambhala has announced that "Free as in speech, not as in Beer" is the way of the Gnu World Order!

Bishop Torvalds, Minister of Technologies of all Psychotropics

OOC: I still think most of you are thinking OOCly and not thinking like a government would. On the surface, this sounds great- "hey, now all of a sudden the state is going to pick up our beer tab. Free parties, yay!" However, think about this from a different perspective- not from your own, OOC perspective but from the eyes of how a government could react to this proposal. Very possibly, a government could centralize beer production (thus allowing only the government to make beer), declare that beer is "a menace" and not produce a single drop (because of the provision allowing governments to ration). Or it could organize "government parties" where everyone could get 1/4 of a cup of beer (because, again, of the ration provision) and would under such strict control and supervision that the party would not be fun. Is that what you'd want? I wouldn't.

All I'm saying is that when considering this proposal do not think as whether you personally would like it but whether or not a government could turn this into something you WOULDN'T want.

IC: As-is, we do not support it. However, we would be willing to support the proposal if measures are taken so that a) only, essentially, those who want the beer would pay for it, b) governments would be able to ensure the rights and freedoms of everyone at "parties" and that c) there is a specified number of beers per person that, below which, a government cannot ration (unless the economy so demands it, under which the UN would have to investigate the claim).

That is all.

That is all.

The most important thing to remember is that this is a game site. Everything is for fun..... fun...fun..fun... despite the meaning you try to give it. Nothing here matters.... we could sell children into slavery.... we could prostitute all our women.... we could destroy our ecosystems.... IT DOESNT MATTER..... IT IS A GAME!!!!!!

Bahgum fully endorse Briftopias view that we are playing a game. Our proposals always reflect this (never boringly serious), their lack of votes also reflects the mind numbingly tedious mindset of many members also...

That is all.

The most important thing to remember is that this is a game site. Everything is for fun..... fun...fun..fun... despite the meaning you try to give it. Nothing here matters.... we could sell children into slavery.... we could prostitute all our women.... we could destroy our ecosystems.... IT DOESNT MATTER..... IT IS A GAME!!!!!!

I know, I know...maybe I am taking it a bit too seriously. Although, from a real-world perspective anyway, it'd be a legitimate complaint.

However, is there any way to make the beer at the UN Strangers bar free? :D

The Holy Empire of Gethamane will be approving this proposal.

Regarding the UN Bar, the UN is not permitted to levy taxes against citizens of our nations, so the only hope is if a nation (or nations) sends the beer as foreign aid to all whom imbibe it.
Naturally, for an economically powerful nation with a sizable Beer Industry, this could be a potential "cash cow" as UN Nations who imbibed aforementioned "free" beer would become immediately in debt to the donating nation. This debt, obviously, would only be about 30,000 units of Gethamane currency, which I'm told is equal to approximately $2USD...

great idea, but remember to support "mental disabled for low cost labor and involuntary military service"

As long as they are clones

:lol:

Hear, hear... I agree with Brfitopia and Bahgum. People need to quit taking this game so seriously... its sole purpose is for the players to have fun.

This draft is an excellent example of what kind of proposals that should be presented to the players.

I think this Idear is a Good and fair one. So in your honer I will make my Citizens pay more for beer, so me and my family can have free beer

~SpeX~

The Holy Republic of Franciscia, the UN Delegate of the Traditional Roman Catholics region, fully supports the Free Beer proposal. We will ration it so that all Franciscians will have all the beer they want to drink without getting drunk. With Free Beer, all other brewing and moonshining will be driven out of business, and drunkeness will come to a halt in our country, region, and world.

I feel that such legislation would promote drunkeness and therefore have a harmful affect on society as a whole.

We would have more :
Alcoholics
drunk drivers
and social missconduct

The Community of Dinner4JC is firmly apposed to this legislation!

The Communal Leader of Dinner4JC
The Community of Dinner4JC
The Allied States of the Isles

I feel that such legislation would promote drunkeness and therefore have a harmful affect on society as a whole.


Obviously you did not read the proposal... Those points are already covered.