NationStates Jolt Archive

UN DELEGATES!!!

A proposal needs your approval! The UNEC, or United Nations Educational Committee, seeks to improve funding for schools worldwide who lack the financal resources to provide a safe or effective learnig environment for their students. This committee will also supply some funding to support extra-curricular activities for the students, since the long hours of study can quickly wear a child down if they do not have a place to relax later. Without this committee, schools world-wide may lose funding to other government needs, and our future will become ignorant and fail. By approving this proposal, you seek to improve our future by aiding today's children.

Respectfully,
The Federation of Hersfold
UN Delegate

The Allied States of Costelloism would like to state its full suport for this issue.

The purpose of UN Resolutions is to set the bar, to encourage and motivate nations to take up the running on serious issues.

Fears expressed in regard to control are unfounded, almost spurious in their nature.

Make the UN more than a talking shop, make it THE standard bearer for a more humane society.

In other words, get behind this resolution

What's wrong with this resolution:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137146&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

My favourite bit is where the author, whether by accident or design, ensures that all funds will go only to the schools of Hersfold, by misplacing an apostrophe:

...resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding...

And before the author starts trying to explain away all these problems by giving details not included in the text of the resolution, I'd like to point out that it doesn't matter what is said on the forums, all that goes onto the page of past UN resolutions is the resolution text. We won't be able to rely on what you intended, only on what you actually wrote.

We will retain local control over our teacher training and curriculum.

No, nyet, non, nien.

I'm afraid I cannot support this without knowing what standards are being used, How funding is going to be obtained, and bounderies of power and authority this committee will have.

Wetland refuses to pay for the education of Hersfords citizens. We also think that it is rather selfish of Hersford to submit a proposal which clearly states that all the money will go to their own nation.

And the "yes" votes grow ever greater...

And the "yes" votes grow ever greater...

And the "yes" votes grow ever greater...

I strongly support the U.N. in seeking high standards for education, but schools should remain under the control of local governments. The needs of various school districts cannot be assessed accurately at the national level, much less at the international level. Besides, why should my nation one with excellent educational funding, find its resources diverted to nations that have not worked so hard to establish such a system. My quads provide a broad, liberal education to all Quadranglians, and I will not help fund the corporate and political brainwashing so inseperable from the education provided by many other nations. I vote no to to this proposal, and I urge you to join me.

The main flaw i see with this proposal is that it puts the public education of the entire planet under one institution.

If all public education is supported by the UN, then the UN has complete control over the curriculum, and thus any faction that might weild political clout effectively controls the minds of the next generation.

Education is a powerful weapon, and consolidating it to one source is dangerous wihtou further specifications.

At this point, the Republic of Global Peoples must respectfully vote against this proposal.

The main flaw i see with this proposal is that it puts the public education of the entire planet under one institution.

If all public education is supported by the UN, then the UN has complete control over the curriculum, and thus any faction that might weild political clout effectively controls the minds of the next generation.

Education is a powerful weapon, and consolidating it to one source is dangerous wihtou further specifications.

At this point, the Republic of Global Peoples must respectfully vote against this proposal.

The main flaw i see with this proposal is that it puts the public education of the entire planet under one institution.

If all public education is supported by the UN, then the UN has complete control over the curriculum, and thus any faction that might weild political clout effectively controls the minds of the next generation.

Education is a powerful weapon, and consolidating it to one source is dangerous wihtou further specifications.

At this point, the Republic of Global Peoples must respectfully vote against this proposal.

We will retain local control over our teacher training and curriculum.


Assuming that this is the case, what is to stop your nation from using the money and advice provided by the [insert random committee name] on something other than schools?

You already claim you will control teacher training and curriculum, but if your schools are in such bad shape, what is to stop you from wasting that money on fancy new school lunches for all the third graders?

Some magic [insert random committee name]??? I highly doubt it can, if you retain local control.

10kMichael

All,

I find it interesting that the best discussions found on this UN forum come from those AGAINST the resolution at stake. Why is this? Surely not all those nations engaged in discussion are of the same political mind set. It seems to be that UN Memebers hop on the proverbial bandwagon. Seeing a resolution to protect education, the votes FOR simply fly! I think more discussion should be had by those voting in favor - and they MUST take a holistic approach, as I will attempt.

I must implore those voting in favor to understand that under UN Resolution: UN taxation ban, this UN Education Committee would NOT be allowed to tax member nations for its many stated functions - all requiring funds. However, how does the UN hope to fund such a proposal? Through private donation? Forget the UN as a political entity running national curriculum, you would have, in essence, big-money contributors 'calling the shots.' I find this to be most frightening.

Furthermore, the UN has already passed a Free Education resolution. While I do not hope this is where the 'buck' stops, I believe this is helps address the desire to make education paramount on UN member's agendas, an underlying theme in this new agenda.

To combat both these problems, the UN MUST have a Historian present to catch such egregious errors.

Furthermore, I beseech proposal writers to standardized their proposals so that each proposal/res. may be viewed without penmanship errors. This might also reduce confusion between the intentions of the prop./res.

This UN Education Committee resolution is quite absurd to the Commonwealth of Tarqys, a nation whose education is tantamount to all issues. We would like to see nothing more than all the children - and adults- of the world in debate with one another. However, this resolution seems to tempt a universal curriculum, and this would taint global education. If we only plant apple seeds, we only reap apples.

How do you like dem apples?

The Commonwealth of Tarqys, while respectfully engaging both sides of the debate, votes AGAINST this resolution.

C Edward Adams
Commonwealth of Tarqys

Where does UNICEF get it's money? Do private donors call the shots? I think not.

This only forms a committee, so I don't see the harm.

We don't have a UNICEF.

http://www.unicef.org/vietnam/fund001.htm

Univillism,

While you are correct that most of the money is NOT private, there is still a substantial amount of non-governmental monies. Private donors or not, someone is calling the shots. I just want to know who.

Committees can wield tremendous power. The next question(s): how many are seated on this committee and to whom do these seats go? Does this committee shuffle through the times or is it set in stone like the real UN Security Council, with a few seats in rotation? I do not see these addressed in this resolution.


C Edward Adams
Commonwealth of Tarqys

I find it most interesting that the author of this resolution has NOT refuted NOR reassured anyone on any of our concerns. Herford seems not to care about other nation's concerns.

Reason. He/she knows that those who vote without checking the forums will always vote FOR because on the surface it looks good. Make me wonder about the statement about the TYPO in the last paragraph... is it a typographical error or her/his subconsience mind letting slip a more sinister plan...

Ichi Ni,

I totally side with that opinion. What I think is at stake here is the notion that many vote blindly yet many who vote FOR are not offering support. The FOR and AGAINST camps are merely stating two different topics, without bridging between them. The UN should be made to combat this by fostering wholistic global debate. I do not see any of this on these forums.

It's indeed a disturbing universe.


C Edward Adams
Commonwealth of Tarqys

Committees can wield tremendous power. The next question(s): how many are seated on this committee and to whom do these seats go? Does this committee shuffle through the times or is it set in stone like the real UN Security Council, with a few seats in rotation? I do not see these addressed in this resolution.


Thank you for citing some research ... and I agree, all of these points should be addressed.

Furthermore, I think the author should provide evidence that there is a crisis in NationStates schools.

If we are going to create a committee to check to make sure the pudding in our school cafeterias isn't bad, we should probably be darn sure we know who is going to be stuck taste testing the pudding and who is going to be taste testing the chilli (because I don't want to sit next to the chilli taster).

(Sound silly? This entire resolution is.)

10kMichael

Distressingly sad. That's all.

Actually what's sad is that there is no clear job of the committee. sure they will "resolve all problems" but How? Firing all teachers and bringing in UN teachers is one way of solving it. Firing the food distributors and signing a contract with the company owned by the UN Secretaries brother is also resolving an issue.

Lots and Lots of questions... no answers... HELLO HERSFORD!

I apologize to everyone for taking so long to post something here. As you probably know, the server is not always cooperative. I will not only address issues posted here, but also problems I have seen in the other forums. So, here is a list of FAQ's on the United Nations Educational Committee.

[COLOR=blue]1) Why is this worded to affect just your country...?

Oops. This was a typo. The accidental placement of the apostrophe in "our nation's" does make it sound as though it only affects Hersfold. I apologize, the apostrophe should be here: "our nations' ", allowing it to affect all countries, even in lawyer-ese. (Plus, anyone who visits my nation's site should be able to tell I don't need any help with education.)

2) What sorts of security systems are you adding? Armed guards???

OF COURSE NOT!!! The UN is not about to put weapons in schools, or even guards of any sort. This was intended to mean a closed-circuit security camera system, to ensure the main office can see who is entering and leaving the building at all times. After this proposal has left the General Assembly, either through passing or failing (no pun intended), I will very likely send in a second proposal clearing up most, if not all of the problems. This will be a main issue covered in the second draft.

3) What if my country doesn't need help, or what if I don't want the UN messing around in what my own government should be handling?

This proposal was intended as a bolster to those countries who needed help in the educational field. Not all countries would have to receive UN help. In the second draft, again, I will add a clause about how nations must apply for assistance.

4) How will this committee decide on where to spend the money?

I read an excellent suggestion earlier this week (was it from you, Magicality?) about a possible student representative council that would be a part of the committee. They would advise the committee where the mone was needed most, and what to buy with it. Each country that applies will be allowed to send in up to two students, of each government's own choosing, to make sure the UN does not have a hand in that aspect. This issue will also be covered in the second draft.

5) How will it be decided that a certain school system needs more help than others?

The committee will compare all school systems to each other and make decisions based on budgets, a sample of questionares from various schools from students, teachers, and administrators, and a small look at standardized test scores, but not much will be based on these as they have been proven to be almost useless. Then, the "worse-off" school distracts of those countries that applied will recieve the first aid, followed by the slightly beter ones.

6) I don't want the UN taking control of my country!

Who does??? This committee is only going to buy what the country needs, then back out. The UN will not mandate each country's educational policy. That is not what the UN stands for and I am not trying to make it that way.

!!!7) Where is this money coming from?

Oh boy. This is the hardest question to answer, and unfortunately the most important. I had hought the UN had a budget, but several people have disproved this. It was suggested by someone (I forget who...) that this be made into a sort of trust fund, with the committee deciding where the donated money should go. The keyword in that sentence would be DONATED. This would almost have to be the case, as the UN is forbidden to levy taxes (apparently).


This ends the FAQ list for the moment. I hope this clears things up for most of you, if not, post something else here, on the NS forum, or just send me a telegram. I will hopefully be around to check for more posts, but, if not, sorry.
For now, however, "Live Long and Prosper."

I apologize to everyone for taking so long to post something here. As you probably know, the server is not always cooperative. I will not only address issues posted here, but also problems I have seen in the other forums. So, here is a list of FAQ's on the United Nations Educational Committee.


Two questions:

Can you provide a list of 10 NationStates countries that are in need of your resolution? (Remember there are over 30,000 UN Members to pick from.)

[OOC: Can you provide a list of 10 real world countries that are in need of a similar real world UN resolution? If you can, I think it would show that there may be a problem ... if you can't, I dare say your issue isn't something fit for the UN.]

Can you show us where in your resolution the points from your FAQ are implied? Because all of what you said is wonderful ... except that none of your points seem to be even implied in your resolution.

10kMichael

Hazanian CP helps with education in its fellow Hazanian nations, and invests greatly in its own education system. We realize that children are the future and train them according to what they will be. For example, we don't see the need for future computer programmers to know geology.

Furthermore, we do not believe we should aid others in education when these children may be future enemies learning how to make hydrogen bombs. Only our close Hazanian allies receive our support.

Also, it has come to our attention that a typographical error in the resolution directs all of our aid to Herlsford. We cannot trust them in that it is merely a typo.

Therefore, we see no need to vote for this kind of resolution and we vote "no"

Hazanian CP helps with education in its fellow Hazanian nations, and invests greatly in its own education system. We realize that children are the future and train them according to what they will be. For example, we don't see the need for future computer programmers to know geology.

Furthermore, we do not believe we should aid others in education when these children may be future enemies learning how to make hydrogen bombs. Only our close Hazanian allies receive our support.

Also, it has come to our attention that a typographical error in the resolution directs all of our aid to Herlsford. We cannot trust them in that it is merely a typo.

Therefore, we see no need to vote for this kind of resolution and we vote "no"

The Republic of Cuiusquemodi, having considered all arguments in favor and in opposition to this resolution and is left with no alternative but to vote in the negative. While considering the improvement of education a laudable goal, the Republic of Cuiusquemodi simply cannot vote in favor of the resolution in its current form, namely with its language that favors the author.

The Commonwealth of Telundra must vote NO on the education resolution currently up for votes. The following reasons are thus cited, and debate upon encouraged:

1. If passed, Telundra will lose the right to lower education standards nationally or in a state, for the purpose of bolstering the labour manpower pool. If all students come out with a high standard education then a massive glut of applicants will occur for mentally-based (service industry) careers. Labour based careers will consequently have a shortage of manpower and thus throw our entire economy into turmoil. Can the UN guarentee Telundra's blue-collar and agriculture industries and factories will not inccur a manpower shortage as more and more students take service industry careers due to the rise in education standards? Will Telundra be compensated with special trade agreements to subsidise the import of thus lost industries products?

2. Education in Telundra is primarily in the domain of home-education. Telundrian government officials ensure adequate access to materials through broadband internet access, and regular national broadcast classes. How can the UN dictate to individual citizens how to teach their children, especially with regard to Telundra's policy of "Freedom to do as you wish, if you want"?

3. Some areas within Telundra require special educational standards to fit with the local culture of that area. How will the UN deal with fitting a "worldwide standardised" education system into a culture lifestyle that does not accept it? Some areas of Telundra are culturally not acceptable of electricity or technological devices. How does the UN propose to install technological and electrical devices into these schools? Or will the UN just ignore their rights and effectively eliminate these cultures?

Until such time that our government is satisfied these concerns are unfounded, we vote NO and urge all member nations to do likewise.

Tel.

Greetings to All and Sundry,

This exactly the type of Resolution that the UN should vote Against. I am in complete agreement with the voices of the Nation States World that have pointed out the excessive micromanagement of this Resolution. If this is passed, there will literally be UN Inspectors going around the Nation States World examining school cafeterias for Mystery Meat of Mass Destruction. It’s the equivalent of the leader of your Nation State spending their time at the supply room for a Government Ministry counting pens (although from what I’ve seen of National Leaders in the real world we’d all be better off if they actually kept to just counting pens).

I understand the good intentions of this Resolution, but this is a matter better dealt with at the School Board level of Government or by Provincial/State/Canton Education Ministries/Departments


Grande Elector Bruce

The Green and Pleasant Dominion of The Bruce

Thank you Hersford for responding. For a minute I thought you didn't really care about this Resolution... glad that's not the case.

Even tho the last paragraph contains the "infamous" typo... that in itself should be cause to remove this for resubmission. after all, we may know it's a typo now but one or two generations from now... who's to say then what was said now.


You typed -
<2) What sorts of security systems are you adding? Armed guards???

OF COURSE NOT!!! The UN is not about to put weapons in schools, or even guards of any sort. This was intended to mean a closed-circuit security camera system, to ensure the main office can see who is entering and leaving the building at all times. After this proposal has left the General Assembly, either through passing or failing (no pun intended), I will very likely send in a second proposal clearing up most, if not all of the problems. This will be a main issue covered in the second draft. >

but what standards to insure safety... in the past, America didn't need metal detectors, armed guards, and fence lines... now it does and America is not the most violent. Why should the UN be concerned with this unless it's a UN School (School for children of UN Delegates). To insure the safety of all students, Schools have to be come fortresses with armed personnel. anything less and you still run the risk of the student's safety.

<3) What if my country doesn't need help, or what if I don't want the UN messing around in what my own government should be handling?

This proposal was intended as a bolster to those countries who needed help in the educational field. Not all countries would have to receive UN help. In the second draft, again, I will add a clause about how nations must apply for assistance. >

Huh, no. As far as I know, You cannot change a resolution after it gets voted in. Does anyone know different? There are, again to my knowledge, no set procedures for repeal nor for amending any current resolution. If retyping is needed, remove - repair - resubmitt.

<4) How will this committee decide on where to spend the money?

I read an excellent suggestion earlier this week (was it from you, Magicality?) about a possible student representative council that would be a part of the committee. They would advise the committee where the mone was needed most, and what to buy with it. Each country that applies will be allowed to send in up to two students, of each government's own choosing, to make sure the UN does not have a hand in that aspect. This issue will also be covered in the second draft. >

If the Education system is substandard, you will trust the funding to the students of the substandard systems??? oh yeah, they cannot afford to bolster their education system but they can fly two students to these meetings when needed? (assuming they are not going to the UN itself and attend the same school the UN Delegate's children are attending?) You will place your education's future on the gamble that the students will not be intimidated, bribed or otherwise fooled by experienced politicians?

Oh yeah, second draft... what second draft... if this passes... THATS IT. NO REVISIONS. NO CORRECTIONS. IT STAYS - TYPOS AND ALL!

<5) How will it be decided that a certain school system needs more help than others?

The committee will compare all school systems to each other and make decisions based on budgets, a sample of questionares from various schools from students, teachers, and administrators, and a small look at standardized test scores, but not much will be based on these as they have been proven to be almost useless. Then, the "worse-off" school distracts of those countries that applied will recieve the first aid, followed by the slightly beter ones. >

Great Bell curve. I guess all those High Tech, Long Standing systems will be at the top while all others including new nations will be by default "in desprate and immediate need of help - weather they want it or not" Worse.. this will encourage schools to go lax in areas to receive "free money" from the UN.

<6) I don't want the UN taking control of my country!

Who does??? This committee is only going to buy what the country needs, then back out. The UN will not mandate each country's educational policy. That is not what the UN stands for and I am not trying to make it that way. >

I will agree that the "heart" of the resolution does not have that aim. however, without all your revisions, corrections and no safeguards what so ever, anyone can ursupe this noble cause and twist it for it's own gain.

(OOC: Complain all you want about the American Government...but it was built such that no one entity cannot take it over easily... the Flaws are there for a purpose... or as Newt Gingrich said. It works because It can't work.)

Instead of quoting point 7, (post... tooo long... as it stands now... must shorten...) I just want to say, the burden of funding this will be on the good will of the richer nations. After all, the poorer nations can't donate a thing and maybe half of those opposed to this resolution may not donate at all. Small pie to go around.

Please withdraw this resolution and rewrite it... correct all typo's and put in addendums. don't say you'll try to correct it after it's passed. Because chances are you won't be able to.

Yes he should.

But I suspect he will not. Why? Because his resolution is about to be passed by an overwhelming margin.

But, perhaps I am wrong.

Hers, prove that I am just a cynical old kook and that you will do the right thing; redraft this, and enjoy the support of both the thoughtful thinkers and the befuddled masses.

Here's to hoping.

Hersfold is not able to withdraw the resolution. The game mechanics will not allow it. I think this is a salutary lesson in proposal etiquette - always submit the proposal to the UN forum for scrutiny.

However, the real blame lies with the delegates who have let this pass.

Michel Duval
Speaker for Education

No matter where the blame lies, we should do our best to make sure bad resolutions fail. email everyone you know (especially the ones who voted Aye.) and show them the truth of this resolution.

Only got one day to go!

Ive read the rules/forums a 1000 times but i cant find out how to join a region... someone telegram me for some help

-Jolly Time

too many things being "implied" that should have been in the text of the resolution itself. complicated things can't be explained away in a paragraph or two, real resolutions are pages and pages long. my education system is just fine, thank you. that's a no from my end.

The Republic of Shamalama Ding Dong will not vote for this piece of legislation.

While it is surely a noble attempt to raise the bar, so to speak, it is entirely envisionable for this to actualy lower the bar for all. Who is it that says that the educational system within my Republic has any lower standards, test scores, or funding, of any other UN member nation? Who is it that publically states that their system of education has healthier school lunches, a better learning environment, or finer extra-curricular activities than those of my Republic?

Who is it that is so wise as to "resolve all of these problems" and yet not name one single way to do so?

I applaud the concern expressed in this resolution, but as of yet have been persuaded to support it.

well here's a grand idea-

get the freaking government out of societies lives.

that about sums it up.

well here's a grand idea-

get the freaking government out of societies lives.

that about sums it up.

Do I hear an Amen anyone...O.k. fine, then I'll say it. AAAAAAAAAAMMMMMEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!

<6) I don't want the UN taking control of my country!

Who does??? This committee is only going to buy what the country needs, then back out. The UN will not mandate each country's educational policy. That is not what the UN stands for and I am not trying to make it that way.



The Republic of Cuiusquemodi must comment that, in their archives of world history, there is not a single event of an outside force simply giving a group or nation that which it needs without expecting some form of quid pro quo.

Uhmm, Andie, Can I amend that to keeping the UN out of the Nation's internal affairs?

censorship is an education issue
as are all attempts to keep any useful information propriatory
whether by a nation's military
or by private industry

we would prefer to see the goal of education to put the means
of creative expression in the hands of dreamers instead of
keeping it in the hands of coercers

but from an international perspective what we need to look at
are the basics

seeing to it that everyone withing the sphere of influence of this
body have readily available opportunity to learn to read
and any other knowledge and lore useful and or neccessary in THEIR
societies and not readily aquirable
with accuracy through the normal
activities of childhood, family and
peer association.

most especialy that everyone is givin the opportunity to learn how
to read and to do so in a classroom
who'se roof doesn't leak

too often it is tempting to try and fix everything at once and end
up solving nothing but only increasing the general burden of
anxiety

we feel great concern and priority needs to be given to the avoidance
of that sort of probable outcome.

everyone does NOT know what everyone else needs, nor does one
size ever fit all. this is a reality of governing bodies of
whatever level need to keep in mind if they wish to avoid causing
more harm then good.

for this reason we are abstaining on the issue at hand though we
whole heartedly applaud it's nobler intentions

in our own nation everyone learns not only written and verbal
communicaition skills and quite advanced mathimatical manipulations
but also the basics of ecology, electronics and cybernetics before
graduation from our nine year lower schools that begin at age 3

but it is not our will or intent that any such ambitious curricula
be imposed on other nations which would only come to grief attempting
to impliment it

but we do aggree that for all of us togather to assist each other
to insure at minimum reading, writing and a roof that doesn't
leak to learn them under would be and is a very good thing

and THAT we will whole heartedly endorse, even if it means some sort
of universal taxation of our nations to a common feduciary
resource to insure the means of meeting this lofty goal be within reach of all nations

we do not have a monitary economy with which to pay such a tax in the
usual symbolic transfer of value but have many good teachers and
tradesmen who love to build non- leaking roofs for the shere joy of
doing so. many of whome we are sure, would happily travel with the assurance of their safety and without expense to themselves if such could be arrainged.

=^^=
.../\...

Abstaining is good. but really, all you are doing is sitting on the fence. If you truely felt that this resolution needs work, you would kill it and give HERSFORD a chance to improve on it and resubmit for approval.

Sitting on the fence is the same as showing support for something you just said needs improving upon.