NationStates Jolt Archive

To All United Nations Delegates:
The Empire of Mowers has recently proposed for the United Nations to seek a worldwide end to Communism. In many nations its government controls nearly every aspect of their citizens lives and its nation's economy. This is wrong and the power must be brought back to the people. Capitalism has been proven multiple times to succeed and there is no sign that it is ever going to fail. You can find my proposal on the last page, as of now. I ask of you, please help the Empire of Mowers in its quest for worldwide Democracy and to end the ideals of Communism.
Thank you.

Emperor Mowers
Empire of Mowers
Home of the Green Jader Monkey

Hazatak will go against this proposal. The noxious effects of communism we see in many countries are due the totalitarist dictatorships that rule those countries more than the communist ideals per se. Communism preaches social equality, and that´s something we are trying to archieve in our country through a democratic socialism. Communism, if aplied correctly, can bring balance and social justice. Capitalism, if aplied incorrectly, can cause as much harm as a dictatorship-based communist regime.

A world organization should seek to work with, not against, all types of governments.

It is not the form of government that is objectionable, but its actions. Some believe one form more likely to attain good results, some another. If the UN goes around targeting specific forms of government it will no longer be a legitimate world organization.

Besides, if we're starting to attack forms of government, we would prefer starting with the fascist dictatorships.

We recognize that no form of government is infallible therefore we would not force a political system on another nation.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

I dislike communism as much as you do, and I'm willing to bet that I am a more passionate capitalist than you are, but I will not support a proposal that limits people's freedom. By proposing this, you are being as bad as the dirty commies.

This proposal is a fascist attempt to regulate the way everyone does everything.

Communism is not wrong. It works. The government of Guaifenasin is slowly moving towards taking on a communist perspective. Again, I implore you not to judge others, and make blanket statements like

"Capitalism has been proven multiple times to succeed and there is no sign that it is ever going to fail."

This is absurd. Capitalism is too relatively new to make statements like this. I presume you are speaking about the 'real' world and not the nationstates world, here, so forgive me if that premise is false. But I believe that, in the 'real' world, capitalism will have its fall as well. And there are obvious problems with it as it stands. However, we can talk about this in another context should you choose to engage in discussion, because this proposal does not belong here in the UN. In fact, it is outwardly insulting to many of our member nations.

Capitalists use the threat of starvation to make workers work. That is slavery and terrorism.


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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

How do you plan to end an ideology? You must be kidding. You want to brainwash kids so that the same stereotype of "Communism is totalitarianism" keeps going. Face it: you can't ban an ideology, if you attemp to do that you lose any credibility and end up looking as some stupit neo-fascist.

Plus capitalism has been a disaster and only "works" in advanced countries. Of course it has been better than feudalism but like it it will come a moment when it won't work anymore.

God points, IS. You're quite right.


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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Okay, let's pretend that your proposal is actually feasible in any way. I don't have any money for beer, so this will waste some time.

Whearas it is the duty of the United Nations to preserve Democracy; and whearas it is the mission of the United Nations to encourage Democracy worldwide;

That has never been in the remit of United Nations. Nowhere in any offcial UN documents will you find a UN mission statement along these lines. If that ain't enough, go around the UN and see how many dictatorships there are. Look at this very forum about how many nations proudly proclaim that they are dictatorships.

MAY IT BE RESOLVED that the United Nations shall ban the entrance of any nation in which runs under a Communist regime

How do you define communism? Would it be a) the free association of producers in which the state has withered away? Would it be b) a regime in which a party called the Communist Party is in power? c) a state capitalist regime? d) anything you don't like this week? e) a bunny kingdom? f) you just gonna look it up in a dictionary? This is very poor.

Description: and MAY IT BE RESOLVED that the United Nations shall do whatever it may in its power to bring about Democracy in these Communist Nations.

See not only is it not the UN's business, but its also full of holes. Here's a giant one: our nation considers itself to be workers' state developing towards communism. Ha you say, we'll force democracy on you! Okay, first of all, how could you, if I'm banned from the UN on the basis of this proposal (which is impossible, but we're pretending it isn't) second of all, and read this one very carefully: we are a democracy. Yep, free votes in the soviets, on a yearly basis, all delegates recieve no more than the average workers' wage, all delegates are subject to instant recall, no delegate can stand for office for any longer than 5 consecutive terms. By the time some democracies have had their first election, we've had 5 already, and we've retired long standing delegates to prevent corruption. That may well make us more democratic than you.

The proposal is an F minus. How now, brown cow?

Robbie Spear, Soviet Delegate for health, and booze hound,

Albion.

To All United Nations Delegates:
The Empire of Mowers has recently proposed for the United Nations to seek a worldwide end to Communism.

Yeah, this is the F minus effort I quoted just now.

In many nations its government controls nearly every aspect of their citizens lives and its nation's economy.

I take it that this is your defintion of communism. Well, you've banned the Stalinists and the nazis, possibly some monarchial states....the list is probably pretty long. We're safe from it though. We're a democracy.

This is wrong and the power must be brought back to the people.

A) It ain't the business of the UN to make moral judgements. B) 'this is wrong is pretty flimsy reasoning. If you want to persuade anyone here then you must say why it is wrong. C) Your insistence that capitalism must inherently be a democracy is false. Leaving aside the planet earth (aka Real Life) if you work your way through the UN you fill find nations called things like 'corporate police state' or 'psychotic dictatorship'. They don't cease to be capitalist just because they're not democracies!


Capitalism has been proven multiple times to succeed and there is no sign that it is ever going to fail.

Again, I'd like to leave the earth out of this so I'll just say, hey, we're a socialist country, we're doing just fine. If your ambassodors want to come visit, you may. No one starves, no one goes without big screen tvs, everyone votes and everyone votes often. Its not utopia, but its working.


You can find my proposal on the last page, as of now. I ask of you, please help the Empire of Mowers in its quest for worldwide Democracy and to end the ideals of Communism.
Thank you.

Communism and democracy are not only compatible, but democracy is indespensible for communist development. Therefore, as we regard worldwide democracy as our highest asipration, AS is at one with you. We're still communists and that will remain our ideal. As for 'ending the ideal' of communism, that can only be done by trying extinguish communism from the human mind. How does one do that? By banning literature and organisations? By preventing free speech in order to prevent free thought? Sounds awfully undemocratic. It isn't like we (in AS) ban the books of Keynes or Smith, or Ayn Rand or Hitler....

Your post recieves an F minus.

Robbie Spear (again)

And last but not least:

your civil rights and political rights are:

Civil Rights: Few Economy: Thriving Political Freedoms: Rare

Ours are: Civil Rights: Superb Economy: Strong Political Freedoms: Very Good

And believe me, we're working on raisning both political freedom and civil rights.

Your hypocrisy recieves an F minus.

Oh my goodness, that sounds like a lot of trouble for nothing.

You want to spend effort in order to stamp out one form of economic exchange in order to replace it with a form of political power apportionment?

Does that make any sense to you? While we're at it, why don't we ban all motor vehicles and replace them with popsicles. After all, motor vehicles have been shown to be poluting, and popsicles are delicious!

Before your proposal could be rationally voted on, it would have to be rewritten as two separate initiatives - one to replace Communism with Capitalism, and another to enforce the voting rights of national residents on meaningful initiatives and national power structures.

Of course, there's a lot of problems with attempting to enforce both proposals at the same time. After all, if the residents of a nation have a significant say in the workings of the nation, then the government must necessarily have real power to exercise. But all of the power that the government has necessarily does not stand in the hands of individual private citizens or corporations.

So anything in the entire economy which is handled Capitalistically by definition cannot be handled by the government and is therefore anti-democratic. Anything handled democratically is then enforced by the government and not by private enterprise and is therefore anti-capitalistic. Which is not to say that a government can't do things without a mandate from the people - being neither capitalistic nor democratic - but only that no action taken within the boundaries of a nation could possibly be both capitalistic and democratic.

Since the proposal doesn't seem to address how much Capitalism or how much Democracy it is to allow - I don't see how it could be enforced even if passed.

Don't make me come over there.

I don't think that I have yet seen a reasonable post defending this proposition, neither here, nor in "Milestone UN Proposal!"

It sure is refreshing to see that so many people here at the NationStates Forums are willing to acknowledge that democracy is not supreme.

Let's face it, communism and dictatorships have tremendous benefits. Communism makes it increadibly easy for a government to get anything done (supposign for a second that the subjects will all agree), and dictatorships will rule out costly (time, money, and patience) political debates.

I don't want to type my whole thing over again, so if you really want to see the rest of my viewpoints, look at my later post in"Milestone UN Proposal"

Congratulations to the Empire of Mowers as it loses access to the frighteningly powerful Chivikistani marketplace! May your oppressed masses rise up in want of bread and/or heads!

(Chivikistan- Civil Rights: Frightening Economy: Frightening Political Freedoms: Superb. But you're probably right, chances are we'll collapse within a short time of foundation (Its compassionate, hard-working, intelligent population of 1.296 billion) and be forced to revert to capitalism lest our US$50,000 per capita economy collapse.)

Many Chivikistanis have protested the utterly idiotic association, made between communism and its absolute opposite totalitarianism, on the UN floor. Some think that we ought to buy Mowers, fire its government, and try again.

"It'd be funny." Said one comrade, wrapped in the Mowers flag she would soon set light.

Hazatak will go against this proposal. The noxious effects of communism we see in many countries are due the totalitarist dictatorships that rule those countries more than the communist ideals per se. Communism preaches social equality, and that´s something we are trying to archieve in our country through a democratic socialism. Communism, if aplied correctly, can bring balance and social justice. Capitalism, if aplied incorrectly, can cause as much harm as a dictatorship-based communist regime.

Very well said. I will go neutral to this proposal. Communism has to be applied correctly to work and so does capatalism. They can both be great system's it just the way it is used for.

This is worse than that proposal about Hippos. How dare you judge my governments political ideology.

Property is theft! Free the working class.


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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Autocrats like Mowers... give royalty a bad name. I bet he would scream his head off... if a proposal to abolish all nations ruled by an aristocracy was introduced.

Grand Duke Henrik
Grand Duchy of Laio
Head-Buster of the Los Soldatos Region

Autocrats and royalty are bad by definition.


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"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

"Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all."

I believe Aristotle said it correctly. Royalty is probably one of the greatest systems the world has ever known. A nation has never known it better than when under the rule of Monarchs. They defended the brave institutions against outside machinations. To lump Royalty in a "bad" definition is grossly unfair.

Sir George Hutchinson
Commonwealth of Monarchies Attaché
Kingdom of Phillipsania

Communism cannot be brought down by political mandate, it can only be brought down by economic reality and free trade, as is the case in China and Vietnam today. If you want to defeat communism, therefore, do not treat it as an enemy for it relies on class conflicts. Instead, treat it as a business partner, then it will wither away.

Communism cannot be brought down by political mandate, it can only be brought down by economic reality and free trade, as is the case in China and Vietnam today. If you want to defeat communism, therefore, do not treat it as an enemy for it relies on class conflicts. Instead, treat it as a business partner, then it will wither away.

"Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all."

All government is evil, but royalty are particularly bad. They have obscene levels of power acquired only through luck.

Communism cannot be brought down by political mandate, it can only be brought down by economic reality and free trade, as is the case in China and Vietnam today. If you want to defeat communism, therefore, do not treat it as an enemy for it relies on class conflicts. Instead, treat it as a business partner, then it will wither away.

Too bad those aren't examples of real communism but a transition state that Marx intended to turn into communism. Not all communism works that way.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Luck?! Ha! Everything has its purpose. A monarch receives mandate from something we, as humans, can never understand. Those who believe it to be luck...fail to believe, which is characteristic of the world's downward spiral over these past few decades.

you giv us socialists a bad rap!!!! I don't restrict my people's freedoms in any way accept economically, and that ain't to bad

Luck?! Ha! Everything has its purpose. A monarch receives mandate from something we, as humans, can never understand. Those who believe it to be luck...fail to believe, which is characteristic of the world's downward spiral over these past few decades.

The very thought of monarchs makes me want to bring back propaganda by the deed. They are useless oppressors who sap our resources and do nothing for us but enslave us. This mandate you refer to is merely your naïve acceptance of oppression and laziness.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

If anything the denial of government is laziness, and the masses the oppressors. A monarch is a unifier and mediator. Every person has an estate in society, which they should fullful to the upmost. Some believe this service shall be rewarded, but a better, more "secular" (or modern as some people sadly note) assumption would be it provides balance.

Respectfully,
Sir George Hutchinson
Attaché to the Commonwealth of Monarchies
Kingdom of Phillipsania

As an oligarchical democracy, the Council of Enn believes that: while supreme power should reside in a small body who have proved themselves over and over again, the common people should have some input into politics. Hence the General Assembly of Enn.

We do not see monarchies or communist states as inherantly evil. The problems only occur when those in power abuse the people.

Greetings:

While the RCO would rejoice at seeing the plague of communism removed from the world scene, a UN resolution is not the way to do it. The UN is constrained to work with the governments that are its members, whether the state is the most free or moral, or the most base and disgusting.

We appreciate Mowers' vigor to eliminate such systems. However, we cannot offer support for efforts of that kind through the UN.

With Respect,
Minister of Foreign Affairs Voegelin, Royal Commonwealth of Oakeshottland.

Luck?! Ha! Everything has its purpose. A monarch receives mandate from something we, as humans, can never understand. Those who believe it to be luck...fail to believe, which is characteristic of the world's downward spiral over these past few decades.

The very thought of monarchs makes me want to bring back propaganda by the deed. They are useless oppressors who sap our resources and do nothing for us but enslave us. This mandate you refer to is merely your naïve acceptance of oppression and laziness.

I'm inclined to agree. Even a dictatorship such as those of Hitler and Stalin is more desirable than an absolute monarchy. A dictator's oppression ends at his death, but a monarch causes absolute rule passed down through the generations.

Personally, I do not believe that democracies are inherently better than monarchies. I believe that the function of any government is to protect individual rights. In this regard, democracies have had a better track record, that's all.

To All United Nations Delegates:
The Empire of Mowers has recently proposed for the United Nations to seek a worldwide end to Communism. In many nations its government controls nearly every aspect of their citizens lives and its nation's economy. This is wrong and the power must be brought back to the people. Capitalism has been proven multiple times to succeed and there is no sign that it is ever going to fail. You can find my proposal on the last page, as of now. I ask of you, please help the Empire of Mowers in its quest for worldwide Democracy and to end the ideals of Communism.
Thank you.

Emperor Mowers
Empire of Mowers
Home of the Green Jader Monkey
YOU are just as much of an idiot as my world cultures teacher last year. It is Dictatorships that you are against NOT Communism. Capitalism is just a formal way of saying "Greedy a**hole paradise" One of the biggest Communistic beliefs is that all people are equal. YES, most communisms turn into dictatorships, BUT that is not what's supposed to happen in a TRUE communism. I suggest you learn something before opening your mouth again.

Luck?! Ha! Everything has its purpose. A monarch receives mandate from something we, as humans, can never understand. Those who believe it to be luck...fail to believe, which is characteristic of the world's downward spiral over these past few decades.

How is the world in a downward spiral? Life's never been better. Life expectancy is up 60% in the first world and 50% in the third world from 1950. Per capita income is two to four times what it was back then across the board.

Also, the monarch rules over humans. If he gets a mandate, we better understand it. Otherwise we cut his head off. Such is life.

You anti-communist wannabees make me laugh.

People say that people who live in communist states like "starve" and stuff like that. Well thats pure BS. People like my nation the way it is(which is being a communist state) and thats why they live there. Maybe, if you dont like this world, try raising your capitalist money and go live somewhere else?

Antoni Todorov
USSR

"Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all."

All government is evil, but royalty are particularly bad. They have obscene levels of power acquired only through luck.

Woah, woah, woah. Are your parents evil? Technically in marriage, the two people are supposed to become one body, and if this one body has supreme power over the household, then this is a sort of mini-dictatorship/communism.

Your parents do things for your good (as does a dictator). When they tell you to do work, you may pass it off as laziness on their part, or as them trying to teach you a valuable life-skill (work-ethic).

Unless your parents are total boozers who regret ever having you, they probably do most things for your own good. This is the way that most monarchs and dictators are supposed to view things.

The dictators and communists are working for the general good. While the individual citizen may be biased against giving away more money through taxes, the government doesn't have this bias in place, and as a result can look past it toward the future benefit of such taxes (whether it is better education, law enforcement, religion and spirituality, welfare, or whatever your government funds).

Any worthwhile dictator knows that if he/she wants to stay in power, then they must do things for the good of their subjects.

"Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all."

All government is evil, but royalty are particularly bad. They have obscene levels of power acquired only through luck.

Woah, woah, woah. Are your parents evil? Technically in marriage, the two people are supposed to become one body, and if this one body has supreme power over the household, then this is a sort of mini-dictatorship/communism.

Your parents do things for your good (as does a dictator). When they tell you to do work, you may pass it off as laziness on their part, or as them trying to teach you a valuable life-skill (work-ethic).

Unless your parents are total boozers who regret ever having you, they probably do most things for your own good. This is the way that most monarchs and dictators are supposed to view things.

The dictators and communists are working for the general good. While the individual citizen may be biased against giving away more money through taxes, the government doesn't have this bias in place, and as a result can look past it toward the future benefit of such taxes (whether it is better education, law enforcement, religion and spirituality, welfare, or whatever your government funds).

Any worthwhile dictator knows that if he/she wants to stay in power, then they must do things for the good of their subjects.

A family is different from a government. It is a voluntary association. A government is not always such an association.

A family, moreover, operates under the bounds of the law. Parents cannot kill their children, and the earnings of the children are largely protected by the law. A government does not always allow the law to constrain its oppression.

I find this situation untenable.

We must airlift Albion some beer this very instant.

Personally, I do not believe that democracies are inherently better than monarchies. I believe that the function of any government is to protect individual rights. In this regard, democracies have had a better track record, that's all.

What government protects is property laws. This allows people with property to enslave those without it. If I don't own factories, I have to work for someone who does. If I don't work, I starve. It's terrorism.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

"So this boils down to the have-nots complaining over those who are successful and have?"

Sir George Hutchinson
Commonwealth of Monarchies Attaché
Kingdom of Phillipsania

You are a fucking genius. It is brilliant. You fucking rule. I love you man.

"So this boils down to the have-nots complaining over those who are successful and have?"

No, it's the haves using terrorism to force the have-nots to work, making the haves rich.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Force to work? It is a basic component of all peoples to complete some task in life. If those who work, simply don't, well the worst things ensue. A country of laziness is probably the most scary thought in ones mind

Force to work? It is a basic component of all peoples to complete some task in life. If those who work, simply don't, well the worst things ensue. A country of laziness is probably the most scary thought in ones mind

What about the rich who don't have to work?


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/terrapvlchra/images/steatopygia.jpg

Force to work? It is a basic component of all peoples to complete some task in life. If those who work, simply don't, well the worst things ensue. A country of laziness is probably the most scary thought in ones mind

What about the rich who don't have to work?

Nobody has to work. And by the same token nobody has to give anyone else their money. Those are both free choices, freely made.

Force to work? It is a basic component of all peoples to complete some task in life. If those who work, simply don't, well the worst things ensue. A country of laziness is probably the most scary thought in ones mind

What about the rich who don't have to work?

Nobody has to work. And by the same token nobody has to give anyone else their money. Those are both free choices, freely made.

The rich are rich by two reasons: Either they accumulated it by their own success, or received it by divine right of inheritance, where their forefathers were successes. Either way, they have earned the right to work in other ways. Our nobility, rich or not, takes part in the Estates General as the Second Estate. Industrialists pull the nation to new heights, on top of their riches which they reinvest in the nation. So they "work", but not in the rough sense, but simply to further the nation.

The rich are rich by two reasons: Either they accumulated it by their own success, or received it by divine right of inheritance, where their forefathers were successes. Either way, they have earned the right to work in other ways. Our nobility, rich or not, takes part in the Estates General as the Second Estate. Industrialists pull the nation to new heights, on top of their riches which they reinvest in the nation. So they "work", but not in the rough sense, but simply to further the nation.

Inheritance isn't a divine right, it's a human right. The same human right to give money to a poor person on the street or to give you a Christmas present entitles me to give my kids all of my money.

The idea of communism isn't oppressing people. It is the leaders or dictators that do it. Communism is based on the idea that all people should be treated equally in all aspects. That all work is shared, and all the wealth is shared equally. It is the perfect idea....for a perfect world. People are not perfect though, they get greedy and horde a communities money, or get lazyand don't do their share of work. Although I am against it, it does work fo some countries, and we can't force them to change because we don't like it.

Kindly, That's where you and I diverge. There are very few human rights, and things are not to be always within human power. Some things are divinely controlled. Some say "God acts in strange ways," and I agree, and that's why the rich are rich, there's a purpose for everything.

Has anyone managed to airlift the beer to Albion yet? We've got some crates ready just in case.

Mowers - no.

Desmond 'Coyote' Hawkins
Speaker for Dealing with the Irretrievably Unwise

Always nice to know that while some people get caught up in debating abortion, sexuality, religion and how these issues are involved in governmental processes, there will always, always, it seems, be a few who can resort it seems only to commie bashing.

Granted I do not in particular like communism or agree with it, but I think its pretty safe to say its still a form of government and as previously stated by member nations here in this thread, as such it cannot be touched by the U.N.

So, get over it?

- The Rep of Komokom.