NationStates Jolt Archive

With many innocent babies on the verge of dieing it is the duty of the United Nations to protect them. I have made a proposal which you can find on the last page of the proposal boards. I ask each delegate to please endorse my proposal to preserve the sanctity of life. Thank you, and please remember, it's a child not a choice.

Emperor Mowers
Empire of Mowers
Home of the Green Jader Monkey

I am pro choice, but also pro life, I'd have to read it carefully before voting.

I find your poll confusing. I do intend to look at your proposal, but how can I know whether I will endorse it before I read it? While I am pro-choice, I am always willing to look at the arguments of both sides.

Hello, and welcome to the United Nations. My name is Daniel Hillaker, and I'll be showing you around the place. Oh, look. You seem to have already found one of the more interesting rooms in the UN complex, the Oh Look, A Non-International, Moral Issue That The United Nations Has No Business Dealing With Room. Well, seems to be you've made yourself at home. I guess that concludes our tour.

Sincerely yours,
Daniel M. Hillaker
Minister of Foreign Affairs

Hello, and welcome to the United Nations. My name is Daniel Hillaker, and I'll be showing you around the place. Oh, look. You seem to have already found one of the more interesting rooms in the UN complex, the Oh Look, A Non-International, Moral Issue That The United Nations Has No Business Dealing With Room. Well, seems to be you've made yourself at home. I guess that concludes our tour.

Sincerely yours,
Daniel M. Hillaker
Minister of Foreign Affairs

That's never stopped the UN before...


Axis Nova

No link, no copy, no evidence, no thanks.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

We oppose abortion as an elective means of birth control (absent any other compelling circumstances, such as danger to the health of the mother).

We also oppose any legislation on this matter. If your beliefs are strong enough you will spend the time and money to create realistic and humane alternatives for women who might seek an abortion.

Sexuality, marriage, conception, family structure, none of these are public concerns (unless there is a cler threat to public health or safety). Keep government out of it.

Hazatak will vote no. Because preserving an undesired and even dangerous morula in a woman´s uterus because of someone´s faith that those unorganized small amount of cells have a "soul" is not comprehensible.

However, we support ban of abortion of well formed closed embryos.

IN this game i feel there aren't enough people in the christian faith or believe in right morals such as gay marriages wrong or abortions banned. If you want a safe haven where you know you have the right morals then you should come to the region Christian Topia. And yes i do believe that there should be a ban on abortions

Was that altogether relevant?

Morals are relative. Laws should only be based on what can be proved.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

IN this game i feel there aren't enough people in the christian faith or believe in right morals

Well, that showed us, didn't it. Excuse me; blinded by your Jack Chick-level of argument and understanding, I have to convert my entire nation to Christianity at once and then go and pray to be forgiven for my sinful participation in extra-marital sex, correct grammar and empiricist epistemology.

IN this game i feel there aren't enough people in the christian faith or believe in right morals such as gay marriages wrong or abortions banned.

Wow. In this game, I feel there is a refreshing balance of people playing out scenarios in very different ways, and we often find intelligent discussion occasionally interjected upon with ignorant tyranny.

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps people are not acting what they believe is RIGHT, but instead what amuses or entertains them (seeing as this is a *game*)?

Also, you admit to be Christian, and even the Christian faith frowns upon such blatant judgment of others. Isn't that your God's job? You as a mere mortal are surely in no position to judge others.

As for the question, the proposal, for the billionth time, this is a national issue, not an issue for the UN. And quoting all the past proposals that passed and should've been considered national doesn't make it right. We cannot retroactively correct these problems, so let's all get over it, move on, and draft proposals that are appropriate in the context of the UN. Abortion? Not appropriate. Get over it.

abortion should never be ban because what if a girl gets raped or somthing? then she has to go through and have a baby even though it wasent her choice to get fucked? thats stupid

you should die

They don't always tell you the risks of getting an abortion you can internally bleed, loose the ability to bear children,etc...... Let me ask you this would you rather die killing your baby or would you rather live giving birth to a beautiful baby that will grow up and make something of there lives by getting an abortion you are killin 1/3rd of the children you look at you bestfriend and they could have been aborted god only know how many friends you could have if abortion was illegal :tantrum:

They don't always tell you the risks of getting an abortion you can internally bleed, loose the ability to bear children,etc...... Let me ask you this would you rather die killing your baby or would you rather live giving birth to a beautiful baby that will grow up and make something of there lives by getting an abortion you are killin 1/3rd of the children you look at you bestfriend and they could have been aborted god only know how many friends you could have if abortion was illegal :tantrum:

They don't always tell you the risks of getting an abortion you can internally bleed, loose the ability to bear children,etc...... Let me ask you this would you rather die killing your baby or would you rather live giving birth to a beautiful baby that will grow up and make something of there lives by getting an abortion you are killin 1/3rd of the children you look at you bestfriend and they could have been aborted god only know how many friends you could have if abortion was illegal :tantrum:

They don't always tell you the risks of getting an abortion you can internally bleed, loose the ability to bear children,etc...... Let me ask you this would you rather die killing your baby or would you rather live giving birth to a beautiful baby that will grow up and make something of there lives by getting an abortion you are killin 1/3rd of the children you look at you bestfriend and they could have been aborted god only know how many friends you could have if abortion was illegal :tantrum:

They don't always tell you the risks of getting an abortion you can internally bleed, loose the ability to bear children,etc...... Let me ask you this would you rather die killing your baby or would you rather live giving birth to a beautiful baby that will grow up and make something of there lives by getting an abortion you are killin 1/3rd of the children you look at you bestfriend and they could have been aborted god only know how many friends you could have if abortion was illegal :tantrum:

What makes you think women won't get abortions from illegal "sources"? I'd rather have women get abortions from a trained doctor than some back-alley surgeon with a coathanger.

Besides, it's nothing to do with the UN in the first place.

... you are killin 1/3rd of the children you look at you bestfriend and they could have been aborted god only know how many friends you could have if abortion was illegal :tantrum:
Oh come on. Abortion is legal in my country but that doesn’t mean everyone has one.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

I would have to say that this is stupid. A fetus is a fetus. A embryo is an embryo. And a baby is a baby. So there.

For flogging a dead horse
For failing to grasp the nature of the UN
For the sentence "With many innocent babies on the verge of dieing"
For the fact that this is a follow up from the supremely hyppocritical and poorly thought out anti Communism proposal

The nation of Mowers recieves yet another F minus. One more and its detention!

I would have to say that this is stupid. A fetus is a fetus. A embryo is an embryo. And a baby is a baby. So there.
So there? That really isn't much of an argument. Just because it's an embryo doesn't mean it isn't alive man.

To the Representative of Mowers, Greetings:

Unfortunately, you have walked into one of the typical landmines of UN resolutions - the abortion issue.

A unique one in these hallowed halls, really. While many of our fellow members seem to find the legalizing of prostitution or euthanasia, or the enforcement of gay marriage, as examples, to be of the utmost importance for an international body such as this, for some reason, abortion continues to be a state matter. Morevoer, the previous issues are apparently civil rights affairs, while the abortion issue is rather a matter of insidious attempts to "force" religious or moral preferences on others.

Unfortunately, the right-leaning member states have not organized themselves well enough to get a bill such as yours passed. While the RCO is totally against abortion, we do believe it is not a matter of international concern, requiring international law. But, of course, we thought the same about prostitution, euthanasia, and gay marriage as well. Up and up - now is not the time. Contact some of the conservative and such regions, and see what types of bills may best reach your aims. If the UN is for all matters, and not merely international ones, let us work to make it in our own image, as others have done. But the time is not yet right.

With Respect,
Minister of Foreign Affairs Voegelin, Royal Commonwealth of Oakeshottland.

I find this to be extremely embarrassing. Before even coming to this board, I read through the past resolutions on things like gay marriage, prostitution and required health care, and wondered what the heck these things were doing in the United Nations. This is quite a sorry excuse for a simulation. These are things that shoud be submitted as issues, not idiotic, non-realistic proposals.

:arrow: the fact that they are approved, means that a majority of the nations is supporting the resolution. if you oppose it then you could get out of the un, it's youre choice!

:arrow: btw i'm in favour of gay marriage, prostitution, legal abortion and so on.
furthermore i think that it is a national issue, but if the majority of the nations think it's an un thing who am i to vot against it?!!!

IN this game i feel there aren't enough people in the christian faith or believe in right morals such as gay marriages wrong or abortions banned.i do believe that there should be a ban on abortions

i agree with you
1st There aren't ENOUGH people in THIS GAME THAT HAVE CHRISTIAN FAITH OR THE BALL'S TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THAY BELIVE OR THAT HAVE THE RIGHT.. THE GOOD MORALS
2nd yes gay marriages are wrong and a SIN
3rd ABORTION IS WRONG IT IS A SIN ..IT IS MURDER
4th THE PEOPLE WONT STOP IT SO THE GOVERNMENT MUST PUT A STOP TO ALL OF THIS

IN this game i feel there aren't enough people in the christian faith or believe in right morals such as gay marriages wrong or abortions banned. If you want a safe haven where you know you have the right morals then you should come to the region Christian Topia. And yes i do believe that there should be a ban on abortions

*The speaker from Berkylvania stares at the speaker from Nimbus-Sun for a moment in shocked disbelief at the latest incomprehensible utterance to come ignorantly parading itself out of that speaker's mouth.*

The slow to anger but always willing to shout nation of Berkylvania is offended, Sir, at your statement. We are both annoyed and dismayed to discover that, in this day and age, our fellow Christians are still touting around their ignorance and intolerance of other beliefs (or even the lack thereof) and somehow, SOMEHOW, still expecting to be taken seriously. We are also shocked and dismayed that whenever these types of situations come up, people posting in with your particular brand of insensitive hatred show the most appalling understanding of basic grammar and spelling. Now, while we will be the first to admit our own spelling and scentence structure is not always A+ work, we AT LEAST know what to correctly capitalize! Reading this and your previous posts (as well as that nonsensical blathering from some silly little nation called "Smurfette") one would think all Christians on this planet are evil, intolerant, hate filled, illiterate, back water hicks hell bent on conforming the rest of the world to their narrow-minded, short sighted, benighted religious views.

We are not all, sir, total and complete idiots.

So the next time you claim to speak from a "Christian" perspective and get an urge to type up a formal address, please do us all a favor and shove your hands into a threasher because you most certainly do NOT speak for at least this Christian.

*The speaker takes a moment to calm himself and smooth down his hair, wiping just the tiniest bit of spittle off his chin.*

Now, as for the resolution at hand, it is just as wrong to globally outlaw abortions as it is to globally mandate that they must be available. This is a matter for individual nations to decide and it is not appropriate in this forum.

I find this to be extremely embarrassing. Before even coming to this board, I read through the past resolutions on things like gay marriage, prostitution and required health care, and wondered what the heck these things were doing in the United Nations. This is quite a sorry excuse for a simulation. These are things that shoud be submitted as issues, not idiotic, non-realistic proposals.

Well, I, or rather the former emperor of my original nation, tried his best to get an issue out of these debates, but the, pardon my French, dumbs*** mods (or whoever it is that reviews proposals) refused them without explaining what I should fix, which leads me to follow my basic impulse based upon a generalization of Christians exactly as Berklyvania explained it, that I did not show enough hatred for MY OWN F***ING RELIGION! Too many people in this game have a negative image of Christians (or anyone that believes in any form of organized religion, but mostly Christians). DO THE F***ING MODS EXPECT ME TO DEGRADE MYSELF JUST TO GET A GODDAMN ISSUE CREATED?

Anyways, I am 100% against abortion, and so far, I haven't heard a convincing arguement for it (as I doubt you've heard against it). So far the four "best" arguements I've heard in favor of abortion are:
1 The child will be deformed.
2 The mother was raped.
3 The mother will go out and do it illegally, putting herself at risk, if abortion is illegalized.
4 Giving birth may be fatal.

1 I can't remember which thread it was, but I have already addressed this issue very well once, and I don't want to go into it again. The main points of my arguement against that arguement for were: Deformed people are people too, and the fact that I had met one or two 'deformed' people, and although not the brightest people, they were rather happy, proving that a deformed child can live a happy and healthy life, hardly being a burden on society at all.
2 Although I feel sorry for victims of rape/incest, I cannot condone an abortion under these circumstances. Obviously it was not the fault of the mother that she was raped, but it was also not the fault of the unborn child. Why should the child suffer because his/her mother was raped?
3 This has to be the stupidest arguement I have ever heard. Those of you who do not believe in God are probably evolutionists, right? Are we forgetting about natural selection? As cold as it sounds, I must say that if someone is stupid enough to kill her baby (and herself) with a coat hanger, we are better off without them passing on their stupidity genes. Most people, if they cannot have a safe, legal abortion will be smart enough to live and let live.
4 This is the only situation where I can possibly condone the abortion, but the doctors should do everything in their power to save both the mother and the child before letting the child go.

I would have to say that this is stupid. A fetus is a fetus. A embryo is an embryo. And a baby is a baby. So there.
Oh, snap! You've all been tolded!... I think... Who's THAT Pokemon?

Anyway, this proposal needs a little tweeking. Abortion should only be legal in cases of rape or risk of the mother dieing in childbirth. Otherwise it should be illegal. Maybe people will think twice about having all this sex and spreading AIDS if they know there's no way to get out of having childern.

I would have to say that this is stupid. A fetus is a fetus. A embryo is an embryo. And a baby is a baby. So there.
Oh, snap! You've all been tolded!... I think... Who's THAT Pokemon?

Anyway, this proposal needs a little tweeking. Abortion should only be legal in cases of rape or risk of the mother dieing in childbirth. Otherwise it should be illegal. Maybe people will think twice about having all this sex and spreading AIDS if they know there's no way to get out of having childern.

We are not all, sir, total and complete idiots.

So the next time you claim to speak from a "Christian" perspective and get an urge to type up a formal address, please do us all a favor and shove your hands into a threasher because you most certainly do NOT speak for at least this Christian.

*The speaker takes a moment to calm himself and smooth down his hair, wiping just the tiniest bit of spittle off his chin.*

Now, as for the resolution at hand, it is just as wrong to globally outlaw abortions as it is to globally mandate that they must be available. This is a matter for individual nations to decide and it is not appropriate in this forum.

The Peoples of Yavanna applaud the words of the esteemed speaker from Berkylvania. Views such as the ones decried by the speaker are appalling to myself as well; indeed, Sir, they do not speak for this Christian, either.

We would like to go on record as being in complete accord with abortion being a matter for individual nations to decide, whether for or against.

Sincerely,
Lady Nessa
Emissary for the Peoples of Yavanna

1st There aren't ENOUGH people in THIS GAME THAT HAVE CHRISTIAN FAITH OR THE BALL'S TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THAY BELIVE OR THAT HAVE THE RIGHT.
We find this incredibly offensive, as we are standing up for what we believe in. Just because we don't believe in the same things as you, does not excuse your deliberately offensive language.

Also, leaving your caps lock on does not usually cuase people to support your ideas.

The Grand Duchy of Hamptonshire agrees with the position taken up most recently by The Peoples of Yavanna. While we feel that morally abortion is wrong, We would oppose any global measure on abortion. It is the right of the individual nations of the world to make their own decisions about issues such as these.

Who cares what the united nations decides? They have no real power. Countries choose to listen to them. Besides, if they did find out one of their fellow nations was not obeying the law, it would take them like 20 years of debate and comitee meetings, and delegate visitations to actually decide that: "yes, there is something illegal going on but, WHO CARES I DON'T CARE THIS IS STUPID, WHAT WAS I THINKING WHEN I SIGNED UP FOR THIS CRAP!! ALL YOU IDIOTS DO IS SIT AROUND AND SCEAM AT ONE ANOTHER, NEVER MAKE ANY CHANGES, AND DEFACE THE VALUE OF HUMAN INTELEGENCE AND LIFE ON A DAILY BASES!!! I'M GOING HOME!!! F**K ALL OF YOU!" *SLAM* (say this with a heavy indian, Apu from "Simpsons" accent, its funnier that way) (sorry in advance to anyone that i offended by finding a funny accent funny, its not racism, just bad grammer) oh yeah and Fuc& teh U.N. they do SH!T...hell let me rattle off everyone that i hate seeing that if your still reading this you probably agree and actually will continues to my ignorant semi-insiteful, badely spelled rage: Fuck Bush, he was a coke head in high school. My mom worked with him when she produced a show once, said he was an immature Frat boy...who probably did allot of drugs in college, and remember she thought this before all the stories came out...kinda says somethings don't it. 2.) FUCK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HOW STUPID AND EASILY MANIPULATED THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS!!! cas in point: the "Jessica Lench Story", yes a dramatic documentary that had to run a disclaimer at the beginning explaining that parts of, or WHOLE SCENES have been fabricated...along with CHARACTERS, AND EVENTS. You know: the story. I'm done for now, tuen in next rant for more musing on: "I'M A REAL LIFE ANGST FILLED TEENAGER WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO FOCUS HIS PASSIONS SO HE USES HIS SEMI-HUMEROUS WIT TO BASH A POLITICAL PARTY, OR ANY OTHER CONGLOMERATE AND AGENCY SINCE THEY CAN'T DEFEND THEMSELVES, BECAUSE IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A BIGGER PERSON ON THE INSIDE!!!!" if i didn't know better i would say i have miss placed rage problems

** The representative for Gethamane blinks slowly and looks, dumb-founded, around the room. He then leans to the microphone **

The Holy Empire of Gethamane would like to firstly thank the speaker from Berkylvania for his impassioned defense of organized religion. While Gethamane does practice Christianity, we are a religious state.

I had prepared a brief speech against this proposal, but I see the proponents of this proposal have already done more damage than I possibly could.

Finally, allow me to say that despite The Holy Empire of Gethamane's opposition to Abortion in all cases, we believe that such a proposal has no place whatsoever in an international organization such as the United Nations.

OOC: Firstly, let me say "Oh. Your. God."
Secondly, I have to apologize to everyone. (Sarcasm) I thought I had signed up for a game, and was just pretending to be a UN Representative. I had no idea that this had so much to do with reality. (/Sarcasm)

No link, no copy, no evidence, no thanks.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

PING ! Looks like some one else got to my comment first. :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

IN this game i feel there aren't enough people in the christian faith or believe in right morals such as gay marriages wrong or abortions banned. If you want a safe haven where you know you have the right morals then you should come to the region Christian Topia. And yes i do believe that there should be a ban on abortions

Must... resist... urge... to... systematically... rip... up... post...

Nope, oh well,

1) I too feel their are not enough people of christian faith here. Probably due to the fact that me and all the other people with faith in human beings chased them away with the evils of our "logic" and "common sense". How naughty of us.

2) Ah yes, "Right morals such as gay marriages wrong or abortions banned." Yes, well, hmmm, in a nut shell it seems you've gone and summed up my argument for me. Well, kinda.

AS THIS IS A "MORAL" / "ETHICAL" ISSUE AND AS SUCH IS NOT REALLY U.N. MATERIAL, SHEESH ALREADY !

3) If I want a "safe haven" I should move to "Christian Topia" eh?

Well, I would rather reign in my "hell" then serve in your "haven" mate.

(And to those who know John Miltons Paradise Lost, I apologise for the minor butchering :wink: )

How about you take your region pimping, (Or in your case preaching? :) ) and shove it? You know, this forum does have rules last I checked regarding region propogandising activities.

4) Yes I think we picked up you think abortion should be banned, when you put it right up there with gay marriage as being wrong.

And we all know what happened in the U.N. regarding gay marriage. :)

- The Rep of Komokom.

IN this game i feel there aren't enough people in the christian faith or believe in right morals such as gay marriages wrong or abortions banned.i do believe that there should be a ban on abortions

i agree with you
1st There aren't ENOUGH people in THIS GAME THAT HAVE CHRISTIAN FAITH OR THE BALL'S TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THAY BELIVE OR THAT HAVE THE RIGHT.. THE GOOD MORALS
2nd yes gay marriages are wrong and a SIN
3rd ABORTION IS WRONG IT IS A SIN ..IT IS MURDER
4th THE PEOPLE WONT STOP IT SO THE GOVERNMENT MUST PUT A STOP TO ALL OF THIS

Oh, jeeez, I nearly died laughing when I did read this one, oh joy, more fun, I tell you, this forum is a great place for any one wanting a bit of sport at hunting the ignorant and nailing them one right between the, errr, post? :wink:

1) Problem is there are too many people with christian faith who stand up for what is "right" and have "good morals", at least they say they do, which is half the reason in itself why we beat them with lines of cool and calm text, highlighting the fact that they are zealot freek's.

2) No, no they are not wrong, at least that is my opinion, I can quite clearly see yours, well heres a little quote for you, and no, it does not come from the bible, so feel free to ignore it like you would anything else not from the bible,

"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision."

- Lynn Lavner.

3) "Blah blah blah abortion blah blah blah, murder, blah blah blah",

I am sorry, did you say something of any revelance, or did you diverge off into "morality" or "moralistic arguments" again?

4) Ah, one would hope the government would comply to the will of the people, so naturally you would think if the people will allow it...

Anything else to scream at us in some kind of loud morally fixated rant?

- The Rep of Komokom.

if you are christian and are against abortion then don't let you baby get aborted.

HOWEVER, don't try to force you believes and faith on other people. it is always hard for a mother to decide to get an abortion, but they can choose forthemselves!

just don't try to limit the freedom of choice of other people!!! :x

My personal beliefs follow this pretty closely (without the word ‘Christians’)

“…we believe that abortion is evil… but we also believe that to withhold compassion is evil…Christians need to face frankly the fact that in an imperfect world the ‘right’ choice is sometimes the lesser of two evils.”
- The Church of England Board of Social Responsibility (ooc: yes I know they don’t exist in NS)


PING ! Looks like some one else got to my comment first. :wink:
- The Rep of Komokom.
Sorry. :P

if you are christian and are against abortion then don't let you baby get aborted.

HOWEVER, don't try to force you believes and faith on other people. it is always hard for a mother to decide to get an abortion, but they can choose forthemselves!

Agreed.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

...so feel free to ignore it like you would anything else not from the bible,

Actually the Bible says very little on abortion. Very little. The parts that are usually used are;

“Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I shall return there; the LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” (Job 1:21) ‘The lord decides who lives or dies’ argument.

“For it was you [God] who formed my inward parts; you knit me together in my mothers womb.” (psalm 139:13)

“Do you not know that you are God’s temple and God’s spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.” (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

“When in the course of a brawl, a man knocks against a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage but suffers no further hurt, then the offender must pay whatever fine the woman’s husband demands after assessment.” (Exodus 21:21-23) Of course back then the man had complete ‘ownership’ of his wife. It also wasn’t voluntary.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

Well kittlings you may be wondering where Christians get there ideas on abortion from, well it’s simple; the church

Now the Catholics are against it. Unless the mothers life is at risk because your intention is to save the mother not terminate the foetus. This can all be found in ‘Humanae Vitae’ and De Abortu Por Curato’. They will point to natural law and how man shouldn’t tamper with the workings of the world but remember; they cut down trees to build the Vatican, which is why dissenting Roman Catholic theologian Charles Curran disagrees. According to him “human beings can in many ways intervene in the natural process and shape the world for greater human happiness”.

C of E sees abortion as acceptable when it is the lesser of two evils.

Methodists see abortion as a legitimate way out of bringing children into ‘intolerable situations’ such as poverty. They also would allow it for the health of the mother.

I’m not so sure about the others, feel free to post more.

That’s all from the random religion lesson.

Cary on,
Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

What angers me is all of the Pro-choice people who say that it isnt a baby until the the 7th or 8th month. Whether you belive that it is a human before the third trimester or not, it is at least going to be. If not, tell me wut this fertilized egg is going to become. I I find it stupid to think that it isnt a human being. There is now way to prove that this fetus, or embyro or zygote is not within 9 months going to become a human baby. If it IS a matter of free choice, then i can take a gun to my 6 year old sister. Its MY choice. But (especaily in the US) your rights go until they hamper anothers rights, here the right to live. The aborted child is having their rights basically stripped from them. If it ISNT a child (as the pro-choice group claims) then the fetus/embryo/zygote is still having thier FUTURE rights taken from them, as they are being denied the right to even become human.

If there are any good rebuttals to my argument i will listen, but unless there is a resonable reason that i am wrong and not just that i am a stupid catholic i will not sway my ideas
have a nice day

Michael Szar I
Leader of the Kingdom of Mikatopia

What angers me is all of the Pro-choice people who say that it isnt a baby until the the 7th or 8th month. Whether you belive that it is a human before the third trimester or not, it is at least going to be. If not, tell me wut this fertilized egg is going to become. I I find it stupid to think that it isnt a human being. There is now way to prove that this fetus, or embyro or zygote is not within 9 months going to become a human baby. If it IS a matter of free choice, then i can take a gun to my 6 year old sister. Its MY choice. But (especaily in the US) your rights go until they hamper anothers rights, here the right to live. The aborted child is having their rights basically stripped from them. If it ISNT a child (as the pro-choice group claims) then the fetus/embryo/zygote is still having thier FUTURE rights taken from them, as they are being denied the right to even become human.

If there are any good rebuttals to my argument i will listen, but unless there is a resonable reason that i am wrong and not just that i am a stupid catholic i will not sway my ideas
have a nice day

Michael Szar I
Leader of the Kingdom of Mikatopia

What angers me is all of the Pro-choice people who say that it isnt a baby until the the 7th or 8th month. Whether you belive that it is a human before the third trimester or not, it is at least going to be. If not, tell me wut this fertilized egg is going to become. I I find it stupid to think that it isnt a human being. There is now way to prove that this fetus, or embyro or zygote is not within 9 months going to become a human baby. If it IS a matter of free choice, then i can take a gun to my 6 year old sister. Its MY choice. But (especaily in the US) your rights go until they hamper anothers rights, here the right to live. The aborted child is having their rights basically stripped from them. If it ISNT a child (as the pro-choice group claims) then the fetus/embryo/zygote is still having thier FUTURE rights taken from them, as they are being denied the right to even become human.

If there are any good rebuttals to my argument i will listen, but unless there is a resonable reason that i am wrong and not just that i am a stupid catholic i will not sway my ideas
have a nice day

Michael Szar I
Leader of the Kingdom of Mikatopia

The ever sympathizing yet strongly disagreeing nation of Berkylvania would like to point out that you are advocating for POTENTIAL rights versus CURRENT rights. While we see your point that aborting any potential genetic recombinant is possibly denying the rights of a potential future individual, we must say that, in this case, the rights of the currently individualized person must supercede any potential rights of any potential individual.

To give all stages of human embryonic development equal rights in the sense you speak of could make around 50% of all women guilty of at least involuntary manslaughter as that is one projected number of spontaneous miscarriages occuring. Simply because the egg and sperm fuse does not ensure a human being will happen. Additionally, if we're talking strict potentials here, all women would be guilty because any viable egg is potentially a human being, but if not fertilized, it will be expelled to certain death and any man who has ever masturbated is guilty of apocalyptic genocide because the same can be said of a sperm.

Please believe me when I say I understand your anger and frustration, but rather than focus it on pro-choice people (of which I also must count myself one), perhaps it is better spent in trying to find out and correct societal problems that make women either get pregnant with no support system in the first place or feel that their only option is to have an abortion.

We do sympathize with the agony, anger and sorrow that is abortion, be you on the side that defines the beginning of life very generously or the side that values the rights of mothers to their own bodies and we don't wish to imply that you are a 'crazy catholic' or do not have a point. The only problem is you are wanting to grant rights based on potential and, as even that potential is not assured, there is no way we can do it without making all of us criminals. Therefore, this is an issue that must now and always be decided on a nation by nation basis in accordance with their cultural values and mores and the UN has no jurisdiction to either force nations to provide abortions or deny them.

Why affect the already born person's life when you can prevent the mass of cells that can cause ecomomic and social problems to the mother? Women have a right to choose. denying them the right will only mean more wire hangers going in places where they don't belong, and more suicide.

The people of Tusken Raider Tribe are pro choice. Because we beleive it is a woman's choice to do what she wants with her body. Also we think the goverment should not get involed in religion. So it would be wrong to make it illigial because some people morals.

Morally, the Kingdom of Phillipsania gives its sympathy for this bill. Within our own government, such a ban recently came in effect by resolution from our first and second estates. However, to enforce such views on other nations is beyond the UN's power or perogative. We must leave every nation to independently pass or not pass legislation. We mean this as no support of Abortion by any means, but as a principle we cannot support the bill either.

Cardinal Pares, First Estate
Marquis Gerould, Second Estate
Lord Winchester, Third Estate

The United Nations has no business imposing moral judgment on my nation. The United Nations has no business telling *my* citizens what they can do with their body. The United Nations has no business implementing beliefs from a religion Sturmvogel does not necessarily endorse. The United Nations should not create laws governing individual citizens of soverign countries.

I find the personal egocentricity, arrogance, and selfishness of this proposal to be apalling. The author, the so-called Emperor Mowers, should be at least censured for even suggesting such a short sighted and inane proposal; furthermore it is my opinion that he be forever banned from imposing this type of religious zealotry upon the world at large. This has nothing to do with Sturmvogel's support for or opposition to Christianity, and anyone who claims it as such is doing so to further their own ends. Whatever your religious beliefs are, keep them in your own country. I say again, the sheer arrogance of suggesting your moral belief system should be made global law is mind-boggling -- is it any wonder why there is such a backlash against Christianity in general?

To Emperor Mowers, I say directly: You, sir, are an insult to the people of your country and the people of the world at large. How dare you suggest your narrow-minded idiocy be made law by the world's governing body.

Sturmvogel hereby declares its opposition to this proposal, and we urge the nations of the world to reject religious idiocy in general.

Hey, look, Nimbus-Sun has literally ceased to exist... literally, listen

* (Glorius Silence)

:D

Mean-while, any-one of a like mind to celebrate for no particular reson I am sure... Can get a free drink in the U.N. Strangers Bar on my tab. A good day to all !

- The Rep of Komokom.

Perhaps this proposal should have an amendment.

okay.. the way I see it. Abortion should be made illegal OK? if anyone has an embryo they don't want they should allow it to be used for stem cell research.

shhhh! you can hear the sounds of typing gettin' ready to blast me...

Perhaps this proposal should have an amendment.

okay.. the way I see it. Abortion should be made illegal OK? if anyone has an embryo they don't want they should allow it to be used for stem cell research.

shhhh! you can hear the sounds of typing gettin' ready to blast me...

Actually, I think abortion should be legal, and might I add I am pro-choice, also the woman should be able to donate the aborted material to stem cell research. Hmmm, now I think its gonna be me who gets "blasted" :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

Anti-abortion (pro-life - ha!) advocates are all interfering in what is a private and often devastating circumstance that countless women find themselves in. It's none of your business. Unless you can prove that you are correct then you have no right to impinge on another person's liberties in this way.

Maya Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs

Cue applause for Ecopoeia.

- The Rep of Komokom.

Anti-abortion (pro-life - ha!) advocates are all interfering in what is a private and often devastating circumstance that countless women find themselves in.
And who's falt is that circumstance? Usually, I mean.

Why affect the already born person's life when you can prevent the mass of cells that can cause ecomomic and social problems to the mother? Women have a right to choose. denying them the right will only mean more wire hangers going in places where they don't belong, and more suicide.

What you call a mass of cells others call an unborn baby.

Please stop using loaded language, it adds nothing.

Anti-abortion (pro-life - ha!) advocates are all interfering in what is a private and often devastating circumstance that countless women find themselves in.
And who's falt is that circumstance? Usually, I mean.

The ever tangoing yet supremely still nation of Berkylvania suggest that, as often as not, it's society's fault and to "blame" the mother is not only counter-productive, but cruel. In this day and age, fully industrialized societies still contain a substantial portion of their population that believe you "can't get pregnant on the first time" or you "can't get pregnant if you do it standing up" or any of a number of misguided and mistaken notions about basic sexual reproduction. Additionally, once the mother is pregnant, society tends to turn it's back on her, particularly if she isn't married, offering very little support and even fewer options.

While it's tempting to say it's all a matter of personal responsibility and any choice to be made has already been made when it was decided to have unprotected sex. However, in order to enforce personal responsibility, we must first ensure that people have all the facts and an understanding of the basic process. This, globally, is not true. Therefore, to answer your question, the blame for this goes directly at the feet of society for their condemnation, lack of support and inability or unwillingness to provide proper education.

DANCING PENGUINS: And who's falt is that circumstance? Usually, I mean.

None of your business, as I stated before. Anyway, 'falt' (sic) is a loaded word that isn't necessarily relevant to the circumstance.

Why save the babies? THey are annoying neusences and this would crack down on civil rights! Also with the upcoming problem of overpopulation this proposal would only increase that problem! :(

...so feel free to ignore it like you would anything else not from the bible,

Actually the Bible says very little on abortion. Very little. The parts that are usually used are;

“Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I shall return there; the LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” (Job 1:21) ‘The lord decides who lives or dies’ argument.

“For it was you [God] who formed my inward parts; you knit me together in my mothers womb.” (psalm 139:13)

“Do you not know that you are God’s temple and God’s spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.” (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

“When in the course of a brawl, a man knocks against a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage but suffers no further hurt, then the offender must pay whatever fine the woman’s husband demands after assessment.” (Exodus 21:21-23) Of course back then the man had complete ‘ownership’ of his wife. It also wasn’t voluntary.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

Well kittlings you may be wondering where Christians get there ideas on abortion from, well it’s simple; the church

Now the Catholics are against it. Unless the mothers life is at risk because your intention is to save the mother not terminate the foetus. This can all be found in ‘Humanae Vitae’ and De Abortu Por Curato’. They will point to natural law and how man shouldn’t tamper with the workings of the world but remember; they cut down trees to build the Vatican, which is why dissenting Roman Catholic theologian Charles Curran disagrees. According to him “human beings can in many ways intervene in the natural process and shape the world for greater human happiness”.

C of E sees abortion as acceptable when it is the lesser of two evils.

Methodists see abortion as a legitimate way out of bringing children into ‘intolerable situations’ such as poverty. They also would allow it for the health of the mother.

I’m not so sure about the others, feel free to post more.

That’s all from the random religion lesson.

Cary on,
Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

Responding to the invitation: Mennonites see abortion as a form of violence, not a value-free medical procedure. Here is a quote that shows the company abortion keeps, in our minds:

"Mennonites today tie peace strongly to a ministry of justice. 'We do so in a spirit of gentleness, willing to be persecuted for righteousness sake ... We witness against all forms of violence, including war among nations, hostility among races and classes, abuse of children and women, violence between men and women, abortion, and capital punishment.'

Ministries of mediation, conciliation and nonviolent resolution of everyday conflict are ways of carrying out a commitment to Christ's way of peace."

We would never impose this view on others because of the great value we place on freedom of conscience. Nevertheless, if anyone wants to know our stance, there it is.

I must confess that I'd not previously heard of Mennonites. While I don't fully agree with all of your faith's principles, I respect them and am very grateful that you've taken the time to illuminate us.

Best wishes.

PS: you still owe me for the Strangers' Bar meal...

Now the Catholics are against it. Unless the mothers life is at risk because your intention is to save the mother not terminate the foetus. This can all be found in ‘Humanae Vitae’ and De Abortu Por Curato’. They will point to natural law and how man shouldn’t tamper with the workings of the world...

Actually, Catholicism (after the teaching of Augustine) holds that the foetus doesn't have a soul until forty days after conception for males and eighty for females. Until 1588 abortion before this point was considered to be a form of birth control. However, they acknowledge that they can't be sure about this, and that although not yet human it's human in potentiality, and so abortion at any stage is 'anticipated homicide'.

Catholics also hold the Doctrine of Double Effect, which states that a woman can undergo an abortion as a side-effect of a process necessary to save her life; thus, if a treatment for uterine cancer would kill the foetus, it's permitted. However, direct abortion in order to save the woman's life isn't permitted, because then the death of the foetus is the intent rather than a forseen consequence. (This is where the rest of the bioethics students gape in disbelief).

Albione believes also that law such as this cannot be dictated Internationally, Religion and morality are relative and subjective.

We feel though, that we must make a stand on an issue highlighted by this thread.

Whilst the nations of Berkylvania, Komokom, Ecopoeia, Rehochipe, Joccia, and many others are highly literate, excellent orators, able to express themselves easily in the written word, this is not, AND CAN NOT become the only acceptable norm for this game. Spare a thought for those who may care passionately about a theme, yet are frustrated by their inability to express themselves adequately, or apparently logically. Those who are comfortable with words are a minority we should not dismiss those who aren't as lucky.

I must confess that I'd not previously heard of Mennonites. While I don't fully agree with all of your faith's principles, I respect them and am very grateful that you've taken the time to illuminate us.

Best wishes.

PS: you still owe me for the Strangers' Bar meal...

:shock: :oops: Caught!

Some unique things about Mennonites that do not get published on our webpage:
We're very cheap skinflints!
(But also very honest...*sighs*...)
Okay, I'll set up lunch for you over at the club.

*says farewell to his precious pelf*

Catholic Europe totally and utterly is commited to supporting this resolution. Murder has been banned worldwide, it's time to actually enforce that.

Catholic Europe totally and utterly is commited to supporting this resolution. Murder has been banned worldwide, it's time to actually enforce that.

Yes, provided that abortion is murder, which takes us back to the drawing board I would think, as far as this debate goes. Looks like you've put us back on that so worn its now slippery path of moral debate... :wink:

Personally, I am pro choice...

- The Rep of Komokom.

If this is a matter of sovereignity, then why are we still debating it? Make an issue out of it and be done with it. I would, but they don't seem to like my issue-writing style. So someone else needs to.

If this is a matter of sovereignity, then why are we still debating it? Make an issue out of it and be done with it. I would, but they don't seem to like my issue-writing style. So someone else needs to.

Ping ! And there is a good idea, why not some one diddle up an N.S. issue on it, granted it won't shut up every one... but heck, worth a try if it at least quietens the dull roar a little... :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

Yes, provided that abortion is murder, which takes us back to the drawing board I would think, as far as this debate goes. Looks like you've put us back on that so worn its now slippery path of moral debate...

Well, I obviously think that abortion is muder. :wink:

Thanks for the responses (I can’t believe I missed out double effect!)

And on the ‘potential person’ subject- You have the potential to steal, should I put you in prison? You have the potential to rule the world, should I treat you like it?

For the ‘why don’t we legalise murder’ argument- my society believes and accepts that murder causes more hurt then abortion. When it comes to making laws we don’t just categorise problems and put the same legislation on all of them we choose what we believe to be the correct choice on a case by case basis.

As for the ‘it’s the mothers fault’ argument- It is also the fathers fault but we don’t blame him, do we?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

I would have to say that this is stupid. A fetus is a fetus. A embryo is an embryo. And a baby is a baby. So there.

So what you are saying is that if a baby is not fully developed then it is not a human then lets put your thoughts into perspective, what if a baby comes out under developed then isn't it a human. By your standards it isn't, so by your standards we should kill it.
[Sits back in black leather chair]
Just because a baby is in development doesn't mean it isn't a person, it just needs time to grow. There for abortions should be banned!

With many innocent babies on the verge of dieing it is the duty of the United Nations to protect them. I have made a proposal which you can find on the last page of the proposal boards. I ask each delegate to please endorse my proposal to preserve the sanctity of life. Thank you, and please remember, it's a child not a choice.

Emperor Mowers
Empire of Mowers
Home of the Green Jader Monkey

We believe the right to one's own life to be absolute for non-criminals. For that reason, no one else has the right to any product produced by your body. The baby has no right to be in the mother's womb and is only there by her permission. Thus, we will oppose any attempt to abolish or limit the right to abortion, which is inseparably linked to the right to life.

www.abortionisprolife.com -- Conservatives for abortion

What abortion comes down to is people not taking responsibility for their actions. Instead of being careful with their relationships and using effective birth-control methods, they instead decide to risk it, knowing that in many countries they can simply have an abortion. It is well known that abortions can be very psychologically difficult on the to-be mothers.

The Empire of Atriard holds that preventing the life existence of a human being is the same as ending the life of a human being. Though we would support such a resolution, we must admit it would likely fail.

Yes, provided that abortion is murder, which takes us back to the drawing board I would think, as far as this debate goes. Looks like you've put us back on that so worn its now slippery path of moral debate...

Well, I obviously think that abortion is muder. :wink:

:roll: We know, C.E. trust me we know.

... :wink: ...

- The Rep of Komokom.

I would have to say that this is stupid. A fetus is a fetus. A embryo is an embryo. And a baby is a baby. So there.

So what you are saying is that if a baby is not fully developed then it is not a human then lets put your thoughts into perspective, what if a baby comes out under developed then isn't it a human. By your standards it isn't, so by your standards we should kill it.
[Sits back in black leather chair]
Just because a baby is in development doesn't mean it isn't a person, it just needs time to grow. There for abortions should be banned!

No, I think they are pointing out that people should stop calling a cluster (And by this I mean your initial gloop of a couple hundered cells, you all know what I mean... :wink: ) of cells a baby, its not, its a cluster of cells, just like any other cluster of cells, including but not limited to those of fish, or fungi colonies.

It does not matter what it "becomes" so stop calling it a "baby"

And by your argument, I could say

"Just because a cluster of cells is developing does not mean its a cluster of cells and not a..."

No, wait, I am pretty sure its still a cluster of cells. :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

What abortion comes down to is people not taking responsibility for their actions. Really? I think they are taking responsibility just in a different way then you might.

Instead of being careful with their relationships and using effective birth-control methods,
That are not infallible, or maybe a rapist didn’t use a condom. Oh I know put all women on the pill just in case they are raped. [/sarcasm]

they instead decide to risk it, knowing that in many countries they can simply have an abortion.
Oh yes ‘abortion is legal so I lets get pregnant’. Strangely enough most people don’t think like that.

It is well known that abortions can be very psychologically difficult on the to-be mothers.
So can carrying a baby full term and giving it up. Not to mention the psychological impact on an unwanted child.

The Empire of Atriard holds that preventing the life existence of a human being is the same as ending the life of a human being.
So you want to ban contraceptives, masturbation, women menstruating, infertile people from having sex, and a woman’s body when it rejects a foetus?


1 I can't remember which thread it was, but I have already addressed this issue very well once, and I don't want to go into it again. The main points of my arguement against that arguement for were: Deformed people are people too, and the fact that I had met one or two 'deformed' people, and although not the brightest people, they were rather happy, proving that a deformed child can live a happy and healthy life, hardly being a burden on society at all.

But what if the parent/s aren’t able to cope with a disabled/deformed child? It would be very unlikely it would be adopted.

2 Although I feel sorry for victims of rape/incest, I cannot condone an abortion under these circumstances. Obviously it was not the fault of the mother that she was raped, but it was also not the fault of the unborn child. Why should the child suffer because his/her mother was raped?

The mother either-
a) Brings up the child and resents it, perhaps not consciously. The child may find out that it was a child of rape. In some cultures the mother will suffer because she is pregnant because of rape (we have already addressed how some people see it as the victims fault) especially if she is a single mother.
b) The baby is given up for adoption. The mother will be hurt by it, the child? Well it depends if it gets adopted.

3 This has to be the stupidest arguement I have ever heard. Those of you who do not believe in God are probably evolutionists, right? Are we forgetting about natural selection? As cold as it sounds, I must say that if someone is stupid enough to kill her baby (and herself) with a coat hanger, we are better off without them passing on their stupidity genes. Most people, if they cannot have a safe, legal abortion will be smart enough to live and let live.

Perhaps they saw no other way out, perhaps the thought they could risk the damage, after all it couldn’t happen to them, could it? If it’s going to happen I’d rather see it done safely.

4 This is the only situation where I can possibly condone the abortion, but the doctors should do everything in their power to save both the mother and the child before letting the child go

I can’t believe I missed out double effect!

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

:roll: We know, C.E. trust me we know.

... :wink: ...

- The Rep of Komokom.

Am I that obvious?! :wink: :lol:

Only as obvious as Komokom being an atheist country.

I haven’t seen you around for a wile, I might not have been paying attention but it’s good to have you back.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

i think if you want to kill your baby you should kill yourself

Oh the irony...

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

Anti-abortion (pro-life - ha!) advocates are all interfering in what is a private and often devastating circumstance that countless women find themselves in.
And who's falt is that circumstance? Usually, I mean.

Fault, geee whizz, kinda pathetic statement... you seem to be implying there is guilt involved, no doubt in the form of mens rea which is sad if thats what you think it comes down too.

- The Rep of Komokom.

"Khan the slayer"? What, so its supposedly okay to kill yourself for "wanting" to "kill your "baby", yet your name is Khan the "slayer". which kinda leaves open the interpretation your up and about or have been killing others "babies"

(Lets face it, you all keep using the word "babies" for your own ends, then so am I! :wink: )

Unless of coarse your a vegetarian and your name refers to your eating habits?

:wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

if you oppose it then you could get out of the un, it's youre choice!

... and you are no better than a christian fanatic. Think, what you said was "my" way or the highway... just like the right-wing, neo-fascist "christian movement." You should attempt to be better than they are... encourage people to work within the UN.

And a paradox too. Wonderful.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

if you oppose it then you could get out of the un, it's youre choice!

... and you are no better than a christian fanatic. Think, what you said was "my" way or the highway... just like the right-wing, neo-fascist "christian movement." You should attempt to be better than they are... encourage people to work within the UN.

Exactly, encourage people to work within the U.N. and those that don't to shut up or be frying-panned!

:wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

i think the term pro choice is not an accurate description of the movement to keep abortion legal. a more accurate name for the movement would be "the pro death of innocent children" movement.

i think the term pro choice is not an accurate description of the movement to keep abortion legal. a more accurate name for the movement would be "the pro death of innocent children" movement.

a) This depends on if you believe that the foetus is a ‘child’

b) It also depends if you believe in original sin.

c) With pro-choice you have a choice. A choice over what to believe, how to act, and how to use your body.

I am pro-choice although I wouldn’t have an abortion. I am pro-choice even though I don’t like the idea of abortion. I am pro-choice because I believe that I have no right to tell someone else what is ‘right’ or ‘sinful’. I am pro-choice because sometimes, however unfortunate it is the lesser of two evils.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

I wholly agree.

I am pro-choice. I do not personally, morally agree with abortion; however, I do not believe government has a place in that decision. It is not my government's 'choice', it is mine, to weigh on my conscience, belief in God, or whatever. The thing that has always bothered me about this issue is this: Government values the purported 'life' (or soul, currently 'unproveable' in logical, scientific terms) above my very proveable life/existence, and rights as a life form.

How would a man feel if his government told him that, due to overpopulation problems, he were required to have a vasectomy by law? How would a sufferer of any infectous or communicable disease react when told they were reqired by law to be seperated from the rest of society, or unable legally to have children?
How would, in the inverse of abortion ban, men and women feel if they were told by their government it was against the law for them to have children, regardless of their religious beliefs?

Again, as stated earlier, I am personally against abortion. But I believe this is a moral choice, not a governmental one. I am wholly opposed to any sort of governmental intervention on a woman's body (or right to choose for herself).

However, it is up to individual nations/governments to work out this for themselves. The UN certainly has no place in dictating to individual nations where they should stand on this issue. Fight this battle in your own parliaments, councils, courts, senates, houses, or whatever. Hell, fight it in your own neighborhoods, churches, and streets, for that matter. But there is no place for it in the UN.

Respectfully,
Lady Nessa
Emissary for the Peoples of Yavanna

So we plan to force female rape victims, who fall pregnant by the rapist to keep the baby? The mother would be forced to give birth to a constant reminder of the attack. The baby would be resented by its mother, have no father and i'm sure won't feel good about itself knowing it is the product of a most abhorrent crime.
Also, what if giving birth would kill the mother? We allow this to happen because abortion is illegal?
If such a resolution comes before this committee, it is our submission that the Free Land of Interested Peoples would secede from it.

i think the term pro choice is not an accurate description of the movement to keep abortion legal. a more accurate name for the movement would be "the pro death of innocent children" movement.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Oh please, does being this ignorant hurt?

:?

Do you get a special parking space at the mall too?

:?

Not even going to bother with a frying-pan, this ones already been hit hard on the head by the looks of its post...

:?

Pfffrt,

:?

- The Rep of Komokom.

Indeed, if parents are just going to let their children chow down on wall candy, it's probably easier on all of us if they get an abortion instead.

Don't make me come over there.

Indeed, if parents are just going to let their children chow down on wall candy, it's probably easier on all of us if they get an abortion instead.

Don't make me come over there.

Indeed, if parents are just going to let their children chow down on wall candy, it's probably easier on all of us if they get an abortion instead.

Don't make me come over there.

Indeed, if parents are just going to let their children chow down on wall candy, it's probably easier on all of us if they get an abortion instead.

Don't make me come over there.