NationStates Jolt Archive

I might start a proposal, might not. Give feed back.

come on add feedback, i'll write a proposal based on popular demand. I am against abortion. I dont think the life of creature should be ended before its even started. but im for death penalty. strange how that works huh :roll:

I would have to say my opinion is that it should be the pregnant womans choice on the matter, if they, and only they, make the decision too do it. And no pressure should be put upon them either way. Also it should be allowed that facilities be available to do it in a safe way. No back-alley business, proper medical facilities and pre/during/post treatment. Funnily enough, saw the question posed earlier about what happened to abortion, I figured by the end of the day... :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

I'm with Komokom on this one. Being male, I've got no right to dictate what women should do with their bodies. What I do have a right (or an obligation, that sounds better) to do, however, is make certain that I give anyone in the situation where they are considering an abortion as much support as possible - whichever way they choose.

Just to see you smile. The mother, if she has an unwanted pregnancy should have been more responsible. if the child is meant to be born, its meant to be born. there is no excuse. condoms cost little birth control a little more. the condom broke again isnt an excuse it works if used right. or if you are that worried use a condom and pull out. other wise gut it out. if you are a bad parent social services will eventually make an intervention. if back alley abortions are made the mother and the assistant should be charged with murder because that is what it is.

Such sweeping statements with no proof, for shame Ukroatia...

if she has an unwanted pregnancy should have been more responsible.[quote]

And if she didn’t have the opportunity to be responsible? Say, she was raped, or drugged, or the guy messed up and used Vaseline to lube his condom? Unwanted does not mean preventable.

[quote="Ukroatia"]if the child is meant to be born, its meant to be born.[quote]

LF:Repititon as Fact. A double statement of truth is no more valid the second or hundredth time. If a child were truely meant to be born, don't you think God would prevent the abortion? Step on down off the cloud and say, "Hey, let this one through, he's important."

[quote="Ukroatia"]condoms cost little birth control a little more. The condom broke again isnt an excuse it works if used right.

Condoms work 99% of the time if you use them correctly, they still fail. You wouldn't say to a car accident victim, "Sorry your brakes failed, but it's no excuse, you could have had them checked even though it was a failure that wouldn't have been prevented by a routine check."

if you are a bad parent social services will eventually make an intervention.

So, your solution is to bring children into this world to bad parents, and then 7, 8, 10 years down the line when you find out the parents are bad, stick the kids in group foster care for the rest of their minority (b/c no one adopts older kids).

if back alley abortions are made the mother and the assistant should be charged with murder because that is what it is.

No, it really isn't Murder is the violent killing of another sentient being. Abortion is the extraction of an unwanted, and underdeveloped, parasite from its host. A 2 month old fetus cannot survive on its own, it is a parasite. It has no thoughts, no feelings. it is not sentient. It is a collection of cells. It is analogous to pulling a leech off the body. If a fetus is a human being, why don't we have funerals for miscarriages? If a fetus is a human being, why don't people say, "we have three children, instead of, "we have two children and another on the way."?

Once again, Ukroatia is looking a bit of a git, :?

"The mother, if she has an unwanted pregnancy should have been more responsible."

Yes, so being raped is *always* the womans fault. :shock:

Damn those innocent women being dragged off and having the dirty done on them against their will. :shock:

They are *so* the problem with society. :shock:

They should be stopped I tell you, stopped I say! :shock:

* Look, my sarcasm abounds... :wink:

- The Rep of Komokom. :)

Still on that flu medicine?
:wink:
OOC: Actually when my Auntie was coming back from a pub this guy was following her and tried to assault her. The first thing the police asked; ‘what did you have on?’

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

oy, Men...

Still on that flu medicine?
:wink:
OOC: Actually when my Auntie was coming back from a pub this guy was following her and tried to assault her. The first thing the police asked; ‘what did you have on?’

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World
And we'll leave aside the stunning judgements (thankfully from jurisdictions foreign to my own) which concluded the following:
1. An Italian woman who was raped must have consented, since "it requires some amount of consent to remove tight jeans".
2. A Chinese (or some Oriental country, maybe living in the states though) woman couldn't have been raped because she was chromosomally XY, regardless of the fact that her anatomy clearly allowed it to happen.

Just to see you smile. The mother, if she has an unwanted pregnancy should have been more responsible. if the child is meant to be born, its meant to be born. there is no excuse. condoms cost little birth control a little more. the condom broke again isnt an excuse it works if used right. or if you are that worried use a condom and pull out. other wise gut it out. if you are a bad parent social services will eventually make an intervention. if back alley abortions are made the mother and the assistant should be charged with murder because that is what it is.

uh-huh. and if the mother is too poor or too young to support the baby, then who will? You? me?

i think not.
abortion is not the same as murder in it's early stages. only when the child is born then it's murder.

Abortion is the choice of a woman. But wait, in this society we give them so little rights as compared to us, why don't we even take away the right to their own bodies.

and yes, i definenly agree that there are no "Rape" victims, it's all an intricate and meticulous plan of theirs. Women actively go out and look for these things because they like having some stranger beating them into a pulp and then violating them sexually. * did'ja get my sarcasm here ???*

by the way, do you support the people who take it upon themselves and kill the MD's who perform abortions? sounds like you would.

[ :shock: Honestly i do believe that all abortion should be banned except when the mothers life is at stake. It doesn't matter whether or not the baby is fully developed it is still an organism waiting to happen. If the mother chooses to abort then she and the doctor should be charged with murder. Just because a baby comes out premature doesn't mean ohh well the baby didn't develop well so we kill it. Its the same thing we have here. I believe that if the woman was able to lay with a man and get inpregnated she should have the responsibility to take care of a child no matter what age.

We in Guaifenasin do not believe in fate, or, as you've put it, the idea of "meant to be." We believe in the right of the mother to choose. We also believe the father should have some say, but we aren't sure what that is yet. Our government is working on this legislation. We do not feel this matter should be handled by the UN. We respect the rights of our fellow UN member nations to decide this for themselves. Read: If you want to be an extremist on this matter, please do so in your own borders.

~ Guaifenasin

It doesn't matter whether or not the baby is fully developed it is still an organism waiting to happen

The Rehochipean Minister for Civil Liberties and the Arts, P.D.K. Orthmann, makes no overt reply, but receives an official reprimand for humming 'Every Sperm is Sacred' to himself.

I think abortion should be illegal as it is murder! Whether you like it or not, when abortion is commited that baby is a living, breathing human being, who deserves the chance to live. One reason abortion is so sick is an unborn baby is about the only thing in this world to have done nothing wrong. The baby hasnt done a single thing to anyone. The mother-to-be should have been much more responsible, but there are cases where abortion would make sense, such as rape(because you drank to much or smoked a little to much is not a very good excuse) or endangerment of the mother.

You say banning abortion violates the mother's rights? What about the baby's rights? The baby does everything a living human does. It eats, it sleeps, it breathes, it even learns! Now with all this if you still can say you think abortion still is a morally and legally ok pratice, than you are saying murder is a morally and legally ok practice.

In conclusion, Abortion IS MURDER!

Edit: Double Post

to those who believe abortion is murder: do you believe in God?

if not, Abortion is only murder as far as eating meat or, say, eating bread made from yeast.

if you do, please take time to ask yourself why this is.

(ok. pleease don't ban me from here. i do wanna make a serious point, and will do when people reply. i mean no offence!)

We in Guaifenasin do not believe in fate, or, as you've put it, the idea of "meant to be." ...

~ Guaifenasin

fate is the idea that everything that will ever happen is documented, because it has been "predetermind" by some other being - either God, or.... no one, it's just meant to be.

either way, we cannot EVER escape fate - anything that could happen is decided, including abortions, it would just be the FATE of the parasetical fetus to be destroyed (note - destroyed, not killed, because it is NOT technically alive).

also, i said above God may have predetermind fate - this cannot be correct, as he gave us Free Will, which cannot exist with Fate.

when abortion is commited that baby is a living, breathing human being

Well, it's not breathing. Whether it's alive or not is deeply questionable. Even if it's alive, whether it's human is also deeply questionable. 'Alive' and 'human' are not absolute states.

These questions are not ones which the UN, or any government, is entitled to pretend it has the answer to.

[ :shock: Honestly i do believe that all abortion should be banned except when the mothers life is at stake. It doesn't matter whether or not the baby is fully developed it is still an organism waiting to happen.
I believe that if the woman was able to lay with a man and get inpregnated she should have the responsibility to take care of a child no matter what age.

Do you also belive that ova and sperm should be treated as babies as well, because of their potential to become a baby? Should it be illegal for a woman to have her period because it is denying a possible child its life? Should she be forced to conceive a child whenever possible? Should masturbation also be considered murder?

It does not take much responsibility to "lay with a man and get impregnated." It happens to teenagers all the time. Do you want every pregnant teen to drop out of school, deny her the chance of an education, carry the child for nine months, and have their baby before they are legally aloud to have sex? I cannot believe you see a 16-year-old as being "responsible" enough to take care of an infant. If she was not "responsible" enough to not have sex so early, how would they be a good parent at all?

You say banning abortion violates the mother's rights? What about the baby's rights? The baby does everything a living human does. It eats, it sleeps, it breathes, it even learns! Now with all this if you still can say you think abortion still is a morally and legally ok pratice, than you are saying murder is a morally and legally ok practice.

In conclusion, Abortion IS MURDER!

As a baby is unborn, it is not a citizen of any country that I know, and would have no rights. I also refer you to Rehochipe's post.
I'm sure that you see the difference between preventing a life and ending a life.

hmm.. i suppose it depends what the "rare case" is..

We've been debating if it is right or wrong to have abortion. However I havethe opinion that people are stubborn, and will have abortions weather or not they are leagal. If a mother wishes to have an abortion she does not need to go to a clinic to have one. She could simply lift heavy objects, play with coat hangers, drink lots of booze after gettting high on smack, etc... The children that do survive the abuse layed on them by the mother come out really messed up and a drag on the economy. Also I think it is cruel to kill a baby in such a way as mentioned previously. For this reason I feel that abortion clinics should not be illegal because the use of an abortion clinic is the most humane way to go about killing babies.

As far as the definition of life goes, cells are what are considered to be living in biology. Thus if it is a living cell, it is alive. Of course they have functions that cells need to perform to be considered alive, but I'm not going to go into that as I am starting to bore even myself. Sperm is alive untill it dies, but most sperm ever made die. Eggs are alive untill they die and the blood that comes from peroids is alive, for a while. We shed cells from our bodies all the time, so is there really a big difference when we shed cells that can possibly develop into a fetus? These are not bundles of joy at this point, they are more like squishy lizardy looking things that you wouldn't think are very cute.

Also, you can't pass laws that punish women for having miscarrages. Most women who have miscarrages didn't have them because they were bad mothers. Alot of it is due to early onset of genetic diseases of the fetus, incompatable womb conditions, or something as simple as getting into a car accident.

Abortion is a topic that you won't change anyone's mind on, no matter how good or logical your argument. I think making a resolution of the subject is a bad idea and a way of simply imposing your beilfe on others... oh wait,that's what the UN is all about, isn't it?

One-third of abortions are made for financial reasons...the parents think they can't afford the child. One-third are for reasons of convenience, when the child is either unwanted at the time or of the wrong gender. One-third are for teenagers. Only two percent of abortions are made in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mothers health. In those two percent of cases abortion is morally correct, but in the others it is not.

What, the mother does'nt deserve her financial burden? What if the child grows up in a low-income environment? Let me point something out...two-thirds of humans are born into low-income environments, in Latin America, Africa, India, or East Asia. Well, we better get the doctors down there and set up some abortion clinics! Oh, and I have some great ideas. We can also use aborted placentas for stem-cell research...think of all the resources we can get from those dirt poor countries. And to help with the price of food, we can cook up the dead fetuses and put them on dinner tables. Think how tender the meat is! It's just like eating chicken, or beef! I mean, the fetuses aren't human. I want my baby human kabob!

:twisted:

Okay I am back on. Some of you people are ridiculous. If a woman gets raped or if there are going to be serious complications are the only reason a woman should get an abortion.

Some people do have funerals for miscarriages. Like I did. My child is buried next to mine and my fiancees plot at arlington national cemetary.

So the child will have to live in a group home or foster parents home, what if that was you. Would you have wanted your mom to end your life before it began?

If you are too poor to have a child be more careful. There is no excuse. If the child is going to have down syndrome or is mentally retarded that isnt an excuse either. They can still have a life. Poor families cannot use their income as an excuse for an abortion. They obviously can afford the abortion right?? As far as I know that's becoming pretty expensive these days. If a woman gets into a car accident because her brakes are bad it is absolutely her fault. If she has faulty brakes, and she wrecks because she slams into someone in front of her, she doesnt get charged with faulty equipment although she can. She gets charged with following too closely.

Okay I am back on. Some of you people are ridiculous. If a woman gets raped or if there are going to be serious complications are the only reason a woman should get an abortion.

Some people do have funerals for miscarriages. Like I did. My child is buried next to mine and my fiancees plot at arlington national cemetary.

So the child will have to live in a group home or foster parents home, what if that was you. Would you have wanted your mom to end your life before it began?

If you are too poor to have a child be more careful. There is no excuse. If the child is going to have down syndrome or is mentally retarded that isnt an excuse either. They can still have a life. Poor families cannot use their income as an excuse for an abortion. They obviously can afford the abortion right?? As far as I know that's becoming pretty expensive these days. If a woman gets into a car accident because her brakes are bad it is absolutely her fault. If she has faulty brakes, and she wrecks because she slams into someone in front of her, she doesnt get charged with faulty equipment although she can. She gets charged with following too closely.

Some people do have funerals for miscarriages. Like I did. My child is buried next to mine and my fiancees plot at arlington national cemetary.


My condolances for your miscarriage. And sorry for my rant about eating human babies. I was trying to drive home a moral point to the liberals and libertarians.

I have a 'principled' Pro-Life stance. I guess I am against abortion except in cases of rape, incest or to save the mothers life but banning abortion will just make it more dangerous for the mother. She will go to a back alley butcher to get an abortion and probably won't come back out alive.

Then the mother should be charged with murder along with anyone who participated in the illegal activity. :x

If you are too poor to have a child be more careful. There is no excuse. If the child is going to have down syndrome or is mentally retarded that isnt an excuse either. They can still have a life.

There's a judgement to be made about the quality of that life, as well as the effect on the quality of the lives of those who will have to care for the child. That is never a judgement the government, or anyone but the parents, are entitled to make.

Poor families cannot use their income as an excuse for an abortion. They obviously can afford the abortion right?? As far as I know that's becoming pretty expensive these days

The cost of raising a child properly is enormous. And in many countries with decent healthcare systems, abortion is cheap or even free.

The cost of raising a child is enormous, but it can still be done. I was raised by a single mother along with four other brothers and sisters. The only income my mother had was 900.00 a month for child support. No one has an excuse.

And people used to have surgery without anaesthetic. It can be done, but that doesn't mean it's a very smart idea.

You can't even compare that to the raising of a child or killing it.

You can't even compare that to the raising of a child or killing it.

That wasn't my point. My point was that there are some things it's unreasonable to require a person to do, even if they're capable of doing them, because the scale of the undertaking is too demand of any person: you can commend them if they do it, but you cannot condemn them if they don't.
If you gave up your job, gave all your money to charity, and worked for the rest of your life in a Third World country helping famine victims, you'd doubtless save many lives by your actions. You're quite capable of doing this. But nobody would say that by not doing it you're a callous, cruel person who doesn't care whether famine victims live or die. Why not? Because it's too much to demand of anyone.

No, but if you kill a child unborn or not you should be condemned for the rest of your life

Just to see you smile. The mother, if she has an unwanted pregnancy should have been more responsible. if the child is meant to be born, its meant to be born. there is no excuse. condoms cost little birth control a little more. the condom broke again isnt an excuse it works if used right. or if you are that worried use a condom and pull out. other wise gut it out. if you are a bad parent social services will eventually make an intervention. if back alley abortions are made the mother and the assistant should be charged with murder because that is what it is.

Just a few comments on this one:
1) condoms do break
2) when social services need to come in, it's too late, damage has been done
3) Back alley abortion is just an act of despeation

And a last filisophical question: Should people be 'punished' for mistakes (not crimes) they made in the past?

the leader of Bondak

Limp Noodle Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:40 pm

Quote:"No, but if you kill a child unborn or not you should be condemned for the rest of your life "


That is exactly what I am saying.

Sigh. This is the crux of the argument: dispute as to whether foetuses count as children or not. The answer is, we don't know. Biologists don't know, philosophers don't know. The Vatican doesn't know and acknowledges it; its anti-abortion policy is based on playing it safe, spiritually speaking. The problem is that our concepts of 'alive' and 'human' aren't very rigorous, and if you try to make them more rigorous then you usually end up contradicting yourself. The fact that there's an abortion debate at all makes it incredibly clear that we just don't know, even if some people claim to.
So basically, what it comes down to is a matter of personal belief. And when things are this uncertain, your personal beliefs are your own responsibility, not someone else's.

...but banning abortion will just make it more dangerous for the mother. She will go to a back alley butcher to get an abortion and probably won't come back out alive.

I must say that is one of the worst pro-choice arguements I've ever heard. Especially since most pro-choicers are nonreligious, usually evolutionists at that. (I accept evolution, but believe more in the spiritual stories of creation, God creating the world etc.). If that assumption is true, than our buddy Darwin tells us that if you are stupid enough to have a back alley abortion, then you aren't meant to pass on your stupid genes anyways. It's natural selection. Sorry to put it so bluntly, especially if anyone important to you died in the process of a "baseball bat abortion"

Mental diseases and other genetic 'defects' (that's in quotes because I am a Christian and have the stance of "a person's a person no matter how small") is a rather pathetic excuse, summed up in the parentheses. Does missing a chromosome make you any less of a person. I have seen some wacky s*** from genetic defects (bio video), and I fealt sorry for the people, but never once did I think they were less than human. I especially never felt that they should have been aborted. Why should someone be punished for having a slightly different genetic makeup? Isn't the ridicule they get from intolerant bastards enough? Imagine if you were Down's Syndrome and were reading this. You would probably feel insulted by the constant remarks that something like that is a reason to prematurely terminate your existance. Don't give me that bull s*** that it's better than living with a genetic disease, because I know (not personally, but I know a few) people with Down's and other genetic disorders, and they seemed pretty happy when I first met them. My stance is that, except in the gravest of circumstances, no cild should be aborted. Rape and incest do not count. Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with rape and incest victims, but there is no reason they cannot have the child and put it up for adoption. The only reason to abort, is when there is no way to save the mother and the child.

Sigh. This is the crux of the argument: dispute as to whether foetuses count as children or not. The answer is, we don't know. Biologists don't know, philosophers don't know. The Vatican doesn't know and acknowledges it; its anti-abortion policy is based on playing it safe, spiritually speaking. The problem is that our concepts of 'alive' and 'human' aren't very rigorous, and if you try to make them more rigorous then you usually end up contradicting yourself. The fact that there's an abortion debate at all makes it incredibly clear that we just don't know, even if some people claim to.
So basically, what it comes down to is a matter of personal belief. And when things are this uncertain, your personal beliefs are your own responsibility, not someone else's.

ah now i unserstand *with sarcasim*. 1) pleae show me any thing that came out from the vatican saying that they dont know if child with is a person. 2)So what you are sayig by saying that choosing whether the child is a person or not, is giveing us the rights to decide whether a person is human or not? So it is ok for a person to believe all whites are human or blacks. And say someday some does "find out" that the fetus is a human? I mean really what about all the murdered children then? how would you feal knowing you assisted in the muder of MILLIONS of children. More people have dies from abortion than the holocost! Abortion must be outlawed!

Sigh. This is the crux of the argument: dispute as to whether foetuses count as children or not. The answer is, we don't know. Biologists don't know, philosophers don't know. The Vatican doesn't know and acknowledges it; its anti-abortion policy is based on playing it safe, spiritually speaking. The problem is that our concepts of 'alive' and 'human' aren't very rigorous, and if you try to make them more rigorous then you usually end up contradicting yourself. The fact that there's an abortion debate at all makes it incredibly clear that we just don't know, even if some people claim to.
So basically, what it comes down to is a matter of personal belief. And when things are this uncertain, your personal beliefs are your own responsibility, not someone else's.

ah now i understand *with sarcasim*. 1) pleae show me any thing that came out from the vatican saying that they dont know if child with is a person. 2)So what you are sayig by saying that choosing whether the child is a person or not, is giveing us the rights to decide whether a person is human or not? So it is ok for a person to believe all whites are human or blacks. And say someday some does "find out" that the fetus is a human? I mean really what about all the murdered children then? how would you feal knowing you assisted in the muder of MILLIONS of children. More people have dies from abortion than the holocost! Abortion must be outlawed!

Sigh. This is the crux of the argument: dispute as to whether foetuses count as children or not. The answer is, we don't know. Biologists don't know, philosophers don't know. The Vatican doesn't know and acknowledges it; its anti-abortion policy is based on playing it safe, spiritually speaking. The problem is that our concepts of 'alive' and 'human' aren't very rigorous, and if you try to make them more rigorous then you usually end up contradicting yourself. The fact that there's an abortion debate at all makes it incredibly clear that we just don't know, even if some people claim to.
So basically, what it comes down to is a matter of personal belief. And when things are this uncertain, your personal beliefs are your own responsibility, not someone else's.

ah now i understand *with sarcasim*. 1) pleae show me any thing that came out from the vatican saying that they dont know if child with is a person. 2)So what you are sayig by saying that choosing whether the child is a person or not, is giveing us the rights to decide whether a person is human or not? So it is ok for a person to believe all whites are not human or blacks. And say someday some does "find out" that the fetus is a human? I mean really what about all the murdered children then? how would you feal knowing you assisted in the muder of MILLIONS of children. More people have dies from abortion than the holocost! Abortion must be outlawed!

Sigh. This is the crux of the argument: dispute as to whether foetuses count as children or not. The answer is, we don't know. Biologists don't know, philosophers don't know. The Vatican doesn't know and acknowledges it; its anti-abortion policy is based on playing it safe, spiritually speaking. The problem is that our concepts of 'alive' and 'human' aren't very rigorous, and if you try to make them more rigorous then you usually end up contradicting yourself. The fact that there's an abortion debate at all makes it incredibly clear that we just don't know, even if some people claim to.
So basically, what it comes down to is a matter of personal belief. And when things are this uncertain, your personal beliefs are your own responsibility, not someone else's.

ah now i understand *with sarcasim*. 1) pleae show me any thing that came out from the vatican saying that they dont know if child with is a person. 2)So what you are sayig by saying that choosing whether the child is a person or not, is giveing us the rights to decide whether a person is human or not? So it is ok for a person to believe all whites are not human or blacks. And say someday some does "find out" that the fetus is a human? I mean really what about all the murdered children then? how would you feal knowing you assisted in the muder of MILLIONS of children. More people have dies from abortion than the holocost! Abortion must be outlawed!

sry dont know y my com posted so many times

Hello, everyone. This is my first post; hope it's not too painful. :lol:

I believe abortion should be legal, although it should have a hefty price tag; let me explain. I do believe in God, and that unborn children are, well, children, however, there are many circumstances in which they should be killed. Many say, "the child has a right to live". Of course it does; everyone does, but that doesn't stop AIDS, cancer, etc. In many cases, the fetus is an actual threat to the mother's life, and, let's face it, better a fetus die and a functioning woman live than a mother die and a damaged child who doesn't have a whole lot of hope for a good life be born. That may sound callous, but I'm trying to look at this objectively. Anyway, if you disagree, remember that I'm merely dictator of Phineha, not the world. :)

In a way we've already solved this problem. It happened before any of us were born, way back in the 1920's. It was called Eugenics. It started in America and was said to be the savior of the white race. Its goal was to create a perfect society, one in which only the best of people could reproduce and pass on their genes, a society where if you were deemed unworthy, for whatever reason, you were surgically operated on so you could not reproduce. Fortunately, we were able to render this process illegal.
This process applies to abortion in several ways, by outlawing eugenics; we made clear that all people were worth having in our society. Even those who would turn out to be mentally retarded, or a burden to the parents. This helps set a precedent against abortion, which unfortunately was legalized anyways.
In my debates for capital punishment, several of the atheists said that to take away a life is the ultimate crime as it forever diminishes the human race and takes away from what it can collectively accomplish. So you don't even have to have religious compunctions to be pro-life.
What needs to happen is that people need to be more careful. Yes, in terms of incest or rape, it is not the women’s fault. But the people that have abortions because of this remain a very small minority. It is largely because of convenience or financial reasons. If it is because of finance, give your child away. If it is for your convenience, who made you the judge on whether or not someone could live or cease to exist? If you can't take what comes out, don't put it in. A cheesy quote, but one that works. I hope you will all see the logic in this, and if a resolution goes up for abortion knock it down, or if it goes up banning abortion vote for it. Thank you for your time.
-And just remember, there is always more... Booyah For All!

Abortion is legal, always will be because offically banning it would be seen as oppression of women.

And we all know that in the age of fema-nazis, working women who have no wish to be housewives or homemakers, and equal rights between men and women, it would be political suicide to ban abortion. I personally hope that in RL, Bush does try, it would seal his fate in the next election...

--- EVERYONE THAT DOESN'T WANT TO READ THIS, PLEASE SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF MY POST FOR THE MAIN THREE POINTS OF MY ARGUMENT. ---

My belief is that abortion should be legal for three main reasons:

1) It is the mother's responsibility to make choices in the best interest of the fetus. If this decision is to terminate it, then so be it.

2) If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, a ban on abortion would result in an unwanted child being born.

3) If abortion is illegal, it will still happen in back-alley shops where there is much less cleanliness and much more chance of the woman becoming infected and/or dying, so having places to legally have abortions would be more sane than making it illegal.

But I believe that the choice of whether or not abortion should be legal should be with each individual nation. A resolution making abortion legal would offend those nations founded on religious beliefs and on the belief that the "life" of a fetus should never be terminated in any case or in the cases of rape or the mother's life being at risk.

Furthermore, I believe a fetus does not "live" until it comes out of the mother's womb and the umbilical cord is cut. Once this has happened, it can function on its own without depending on the life of the mother.

However, I believe that late-term abortions should be illegal because these are the most barbaric and the unborn child will feel massive amounts of pain.

So to recap:

- Fetuses are not living.
- It is considered to be alive when it can support its own body outside of the mother's womb.
- All abortions should be legal, except for late-term abortions.

For me the issue is not with the fetus being alive or not, or human or not, or even wether it murder. I look at the life at which the child will live.

In most of the cases in which abortion is considered the mother is a teenager who acidentially got pregnant. She is most oftenly iresponsible which is why she got pregnant in the first place. Also being a teen this will not have been a truely serius realationship, so she probably will not end up marrying the birth father. In many situations the parents will be adicts of a sort and will not be able to be good parents.

If the child is allowed to be born he/she will end up having to live a hard life. Also because they live this hard life it has been proved that their brains will become altered making them more suseptible to abuse of all sorts, and addictions of all kinds. In the long run hese children will end up repeting the exact same mistakes that there parents did, creating a cycle of neverending addiction and abuse going down through generations. By having abortions we can stop these chains and greatly diminish the amount of abuse and addictions in society.

Oh you people with no hope for the resiliencey of our race you make me sick. You can't tell the outcome every time even a majority of the time. There are no statistics stating that unwanted pregnancies lead to mishap. Sometimes just sometimes, the hard life betters the person, makes them succeed as to not make the same mistakes.

I propose in the issue I am about to write that there will be case by case abortions. No one even the mother has the right to prejudge someone elses life. Those who do shame on you.

For me the issue is not with the fetus being alive or not, or human or not, or even wether it murder. I look at the life at which the child will live.

In most of the cases in which abortion is considered the mother is a teenager who acidentially got pregnant. She is most oftenly iresponsible which is why she got pregnant in the first place. Also being a teen this will not have been a truely serius realationship, so she probably will not end up marrying the birth father. In many situations the parents will be adicts of a sort and will not be able to be good parents.

If the child is allowed to be born he/she will end up having to live a hard life. Also because they live this hard life it has been proved that their brains will become altered making them more suseptible to abuse of all sorts, and addictions of all kinds. In the long run hese children will end up repeting the exact same mistakes that there parents did, creating a cycle of neverending addiction and abuse going down through generations. By having abortions we can stop these chains and greatly diminish the amount of abuse and addictions in society.

could you please show some places where your fatcs came from? or are the assumptions? because, i doubt most abortions are from teenagers

If you make a mistake in your life you should have to live up to it. It is the process of living and growing. If a career woman has child after never planning too. Thats her own mistake and there goes 18 years of her selfish life. Or longer if its mentally retarded. That is life and maybe if you believe god's way of punishing and rewarding you for a selfish life.

Again I say there is no excuse for abortion and I am still waiting for someone to show me one.

could someone tell me when does the child become a "full human"

You can't tell, no one can prove when someone receives a "soul" it isnt measureable. some people can go through their whole life and not have one.

If you are against case by case abortion ban,

will anyone support making third trimester abortions illegal??

I need feedback. vote on my poll under third trimester abortion ban. tell your UN delegates about this

[ :shock: Honestly i do believe that all abortion should be banned except when the mothers life is at stake. It doesn't matter whether or not the baby is fully developed it is still an organism waiting to happen. If the mother chooses to abort then she and the doctor should be charged with murder. Just because a baby comes out premature doesn't mean ohh well the baby didn't develop well so we kill it. Its the same thing we have here. I believe that if the woman was able to lay with a man and get inpregnated she should have the responsibility to take care of a child no matter what age.

- "whether or not the baby is fully developed it is still an organism waiting to happen."

An organism waiting to happen? Yeah, like the salad roll in the back of my locker I left it at tech today... now THERE is an organism waiting to happen... :D

Oh no, did you hear? Those simply AWFUL farmers used PEST-E-CIDE, Oh, the horror, all those destroyed insect eggs ! :shock:

Oh, those poor little "organisms waiting to happen" :wink:

- "If the mother chooses to abort then she and the doctor should be charged with murder. Just because a baby comes out premature doesn't mean ohh well the baby didn't develop well so we kill it."

O-kay... :shock: Interesting view point, last I checked the idea was to do our best to save premi-babies from death, you know, all those medi-cribs, and sterile conditions, and doctors, and nurses, the devotion of time an effort to save what is clearly a living, breathing person, albe-it rather small,

In conclusion, bad example, unless where you live they go around chopping the heads off of premi-babies? :shock:

- " I believe that if the woman was able to lay with a man and get inpregnated she should have the responsibility to take care of a child no matter what age." :shock: :shock: :shock:

Even better, so, is ignorance *really* bliss, or do you occasionally stop and think, Oops, should have "aborted" (Yes, t'was apun dear people) that line of thought/argument?

I can imagine your lines of thought already, :wink:

Quickly, all women, must now wear chastity belts in public to prevent rape! :wink:

All condoms must become brass bound little buggary boxes! :wink:

Quickly, to the don't get preggers or else ! , mobile! :wink:

...

:roll:

- The Rep of Komokom, taking the mickey out of all targets of opportunity at fifty characters distance!