NationStates Jolt Archive

Way back when Vivelo was still ruled by a king, there were excellent debates going on, covering such important and highly controversial topics as abortion and euthanasia. What ever happened to those threads? Was a decision so impossible and unreachable that they were abandoned? Were decisions finally made? If so, what?

Euthanasia is now legal in all member states, unsure on abortion. With no repeal ability, debate on euthanasia died down.

Lubria is correct, Euthanasia is done and done,

Abortion how-ever I think is not, but all this gay marriage debate seems to have pushed it aside for now...

Huh, abortion, the third rail of politics, touch it and die, as I did read in a Tom Clacy novel...

- The Rep of Komokom.

Well I can help start it up again. Abortion is wrong. Personally i believe enthanasia is too. Bring on the debate.

Huh, abortion, the third rail of politics, touch it and die, as I did read in a Tom Clacy novel...

Well, the third rail is (In America anyway) Social Security, cause no matter what the party, old people want free money.

[quote="Ukroatia"]Abortion is wrong. Personally i believe enthanasia is too. Bring on the debate.[quote]

And on what evidence or argument do you base your conclusions?

First abortion, granted there are some reasons for it. Rape, endangerment to the mother. But thats it. Poor family deal with it, dont wanna be fat deal with it, just dont want a kid deal with it should have been more responsible then right???

Euthanaisia, easy way out, suicide is suicide. Terminally ill, wait it out. Soldiers or Marines with stomach wounds and are cut off from support do it. They dont go hey buddy dont want to finish it end it, and I guarentee you that it sometimes isnt a short wait and is a lot more painful than old age. My greatgrand father was shot in the stomach during wwII, and he died last march at the age of 87. he had lung cancer and pancreas cancer, he said being shot was worse.

Euthanasia, thankfully, is legal in UN member nations. Abortion is not illegal, so therefore is legal. Hopefully, it will stay that way and not be assaulted by old, reactionary, and cowardly conservatives who want to spread their evil. Hopefully, once the gay marriage is justified and made legal, we can once and for establish that abortion and euthanasia are inalienable rights that the government cannot take away.


Dept. of Human Rights,
United Socialist States of Resistencia

gay marriage is legal, abortion doesnt have resolution yet unless i missed something.

Poor family

So only the rich, who don't have as many children as the poor should be charged with preventing overpopulation

just don’t want a kid deal with it should have been more responsible then right???

I agree, they should have been more responsible, but you don't tell someone who just O.D.ed on heroin, "Sorry, you should have been more responsible, we're denying you treatment." Your argument calls for a change in actions ex post facto.

Euthanaisia, easy way out, suicide is suicide.

Yes it is, that's the whole damn point! Not every worldview sees honor in death as enduring suffering, some see it as reducing it, even avoiding it (gee, that sounds almost Buddhist, which is, coincidentally, one of the oldest religions)

They dont go hey buddy dont want to finish it end it.

Ever see Aliens? Let me know if this sounds familiar, "Kill me...” Who says they don't? Even if they don’t, it doesn’t make it right, only popular? Appeal to Popularity, logical fallacy.


"NEXT!"

I was saying that being poor isnt an excuse for having an abortion, as some will try to use as an excuse. If you have ever served in any armed service and had some one dying in your arms you would know what i was talking about. aliens is a movie(this is a games but sowhat). that person should have been killed just to prevent the alien inside to attack and kill. oh and by the way they didnt kill that person the chest burster came out first.

I was saying that being poor isn’t an excuse for having an abortion, as some will try to use as an excuse.

LF:Red Herring. What's at debate here is the morality of abortion, not people's reasons for doing it.

If you have ever served in any armed service and had some one dying in your arms you would know what I was talking about.

LF:Appeal to Authority.


oh and by the way they didn’t kill that person the chest burster came out first.

Ah, you are correct there. However, now we go to Alien 4, and lookie here: Riply 8 Encounters the previous Riplies, and one of them, looking to be suffering badly, asks R8 to kill her. R8 does, with a flame-thrower. Look at that, Euthanasia. Would you want that person, in obvious pain and anguish, to live out that life; would you just tell them to, "wait it out"?

sometimes you have to be cruel and harsh. i wouldnt have killed the creature. well, especially in that case it was "a waste of ammo."

sometimes you have to be cruel and harsh.

Oh, sometimes. So was the holocaust during one of these periods of grace where morality is set aside? But I suppose its easy to put qualifiers on laws claimed to be absolute, some Christians do it all the time. Thou shall not kill comes to mind. The pope allowd waves of people to be killed, and even promised the killers into heaven, that was the Crusades. As the saying goes, War is always wrong, unless you're the one fighting it.

The holocaust was wrong (did get rid of a lot of those pesky jews though, hmmm?). It isn't right, so their suffering. It's something that first of all can be abused look at the resolution, maybe the mother didnt want to be let go, theres a reason insurrance companies dont pay on euthanasia. its an easy way out. do you think abraham after his 200th bday while on his death bed for 20 said ohh just go ahead and end me. even old people these days are becoming morally weak.

The holocaust was wrong (did get rid of a lot of those pesky jews though, hmmm?). It isn't right, so their suffering. It's something that first of all can be abused look at the resolution, maybe the mother didnt want to be let go, theres a reason insurrance companies dont pay on euthanasia. its an easy way out. do you think abraham after his 200th bday while on his death bed for 20 said ohh just go ahead and end me. even old people these days are becoming morally weak.

Sorry, Ukroatia, but...

1) :shock: Dude, I am with much hope your comment about the holocaust getting rid of pesky jews was meant as an *exetremely* bad joke. Exetremely. 'Lest all kinds of text based crap suddenly lands in your telegram inbox.

2) Quite frankly, If I decided to top myself, money and insurrance pay-outs would not overly concern me. My family would get my assets anyway...

3) Once again, the point is that it *is* an easy way out.

I watched my grandfather,

(Yes, also a WWII vet, from the Aussie "Mice of Moresby" infantry battalion)

Die slowly and in extreme agony from cancer of the pancreas, in its most advanced form, and let me tell you, being *forcefully* kept out of your grandfathers ward for the three days before his death, and later learning it was beacuse his body was decomposing while he was still "alive" (If you could call in and out of a coma life...) is not nice, especially when he is the person you admire above all others, and you know one of his last wishes was if it got too bad for my family to deal with, or if he had *no* quality of life yet to turn off life support.

* Of coarse the problem for him, us and the doctors who knew him was the laws in Australia preventing euthanasia, well ,that law, at that time, in our part of aust meant we could do no such thing. thankfully, the amount of pain killers he had to be kept on meant eventually the build up finished him off, thankfully.

4) I think at the end of the day the people should have the basic right to decide wether or not to go on, and people with high and mighty "morals" can take the running jump themselves.

That aside, I am pro-abortion too, as in a previous post some-where...

- The Rep of Komokom.

Or morally awakened, it really depends on the point of view.

I think it takes a certain amount of strength to take your destiny into your own hands.

Aside from that laws against suicide are real hard to uphold. What exactly would you do people who break them?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

Errr, sentance them to death?

* * * do'h ! * * *

:wink:

- The Rep of Komokom.

I think it takes a certain amount of strength to take your destiny into your own hands.

Aside from that laws against suicide are realy hard to uphold. What exactly would you do people who break them?

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Black New World

from what we are able to gather there are still many youth in asia who are doing quite well.

retroactive abortion in the form of capitol punishment seems to have yet to be universaly outlawed

=^^=
.../\...

Euthanasia, thankfully, is legal in UN member nations. Abortion is not illegal, so therefore is legal. Hopefully, it will stay that way and not be assaulted by old, reactionary, and cowardly conservatives who want to spread their evil. Hopefully, once the gay marriage is justified and made legal, we can once and for establish that abortion and euthanasia are inalienable rights that the government cannot take away.


Dept. of Human Rights,
United Socialist States of Resistencia
If the UN has not passed a resolution on abortion, its legalty depends on the country.

Hey, speaking of logical fallacies, it'd be nice if http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm could be stickied or something.

Not that the people who regularly commit these fallacies are likely to actually read the thing, but it gives us a quick and easy way to say 'Next'.

Oh, sometimes. So was the holocaust during one of these periods of grace where morality is set aside? But I suppose its easy to put qualifiers on laws claimed to be absolute, some Christians do it all the time. Thou shall not kill comes to mind. The pope allowd waves of people to be killed, and even promised the killers into heaven, that was the Crusades. As the saying goes, War is always wrong, unless you're the one fighting it.[/quote]

with regards to your holocaust comment - Hitler thought he was moraly right, as did the people who killed the millions of jews. he did not set his morals aside - he believed what he was doing was right.

(although, otherwise, a point well made)