NationStates Jolt Archive

Colleagues,

The following is my first United Nations proposal. I urge you all to read it and discuss it, if you are so inclined. We the people of the United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia believe that laws respecting a citizen's right to own firearms necessarily impinge upon the sovereignty of nations, and such laws should be deliberated on by the nations themselves, not by the United Nations.

I thank you for your attention to this.


WHEREAS the United Nations fundamentally recognizes the sovereignty of nations and their right to self-governance,

WHEREAS legislation respecting the possession of firearms by citizens is a matter best considered by the nations themselves,

WHEREAS United Nations resolutions both for and against gun control are repeatedly proposed, but serve only to prevent other, more meaningful issues from being addressed in a timely, organized, non-bureaucratic fashion,

BE IT RESOLVED THAT all United Nations proposals respecting citizens' rights to own firearms be dismissed as they are outside the purview of the United Nations, and they impinge upon the sovereignty of nations.


--
Minister of Policy Development
United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia
Eve Region

I like it, I'm fed up of people demanding compulsory gun ownership. We have no guns - compliance would be ruinously costly, not to mention the norality issue (obviously there's a lot of disagreement here...).

Mind you, after much discussion with the public, the Speakers for Ecopoeia devised a solution. If a compulsory gun ownership proposal is ever passed, we will arm our citizens with water pistols.

Ordinarily, we would like to see resolutions drafted in the forum before submittal. However, we have no issues with this proposal so you have our full support.

Maya Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs
Community of Ecopoeia

Speaker Toitovna:

I humbly request forgiveness for submitting a resolution proposal before first presenting it to my esteemed United Nations colleagues. As I am new to the processes and procedures of the U.N., I am unfamiliar with all the by-laws and guidelines; that is, I acted in haste and in ignorance, and with no malicious or subversive intent whatsoever.

Please accept my sincere apologies and my solemn vow to work more closely with other delegates and members on future proposals.

--
Minister of Policy Development
United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia
Eve Region

We would support this, provided that 'firearms' was explicitly limited. Technically speaking the term includes certain artillery devices, and we would quite like to be able to pass legislation forbidding the private ownership of howitzers to nations we share borders with. The occasional gun nut going crazy and causing havoc in another nation we can deal with; the occasional shell lobbed over our borders we cannot.

Similarly, within the human rights remit of the UN it would seem entirely legitimate to forbid the private (or, indeed, military) ownership of certain types of firearm deemed unnecessarily cruel; flamethrowers spring immediately to mind.

Elsepeth R. Nibbling
Ministry of Being Nice

We find this is an appropriate issue to return to the individual nations, and will support the proposal.

XANADU-UTOPIA: "Please accept my sincere apologies and my solemn vow to work more closely with other delegates and members on future proposals."

My friend, please do not fret. There is no need to beg forgiveness!

With regards to the proposal - Ms Nibbling has made a couple of valid points that are well worthy of consideration. Don't let this dishearten you. Your resolution has been proposed; if it receives enough endorsements from delegates then we will see how things progress in the final vote. However, you now have an excellent opportunity to discuss possible amendments with the UN members should the current proposal not achieve forum.

Best wishes
May Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs

Colleagues,

The following is my first United Nations proposal. I urge you all to read it and discuss it, if you are so inclined. We the people of the United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia believe that laws respecting a citizen's right to own firearms necessarily impinge upon the sovereignty of nations, and such laws should be deliberated on by the nations themselves, not by the United Nations.

I thank you for your attention to this.


WHEREAS the United Nations fundamentally recognizes the sovereignty of nations and their right to self-governance,

WHEREAS legislation respecting the possession of firearms by citizens is a matter best considered by the nations themselves,

WHEREAS United Nations resolutions both for and against gun control are repeatedly proposed, but serve only to prevent other, more meaningful issues from being addressed in a timely, organized, non-bureaucratic fashion,

BE IT RESOLVED THAT all United Nations proposals respecting citizens' rights to own firearms be dismissed as they are outside the purview of the United Nations, and they impinge upon the sovereignty of nations.


--
Minister of Policy Development
United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia

Eve Region

This changed game mechanics so your proposal is not valid

Laioians have a strong libertarian streak in them... they like to own things that go pow. Laio would support such a measure.

The government of Laio, respectfully request that Emperor Matthuis provide a link that would collaborate his reply.

Also, clarification from Ecopoeia about this statement...

Ordinarily, we would like to see resolutions drafted in the forum before submittal. However, we have no issues with this proposal so you have our full support.

What is the correct forum for proposals?

LAIO: Also, clarification from Ecopoeia about this statement...

Quote:
Ordinarily, we would like to see resolutions drafted in the forum before submittal. However, we have no issues with this proposal so you have our full support.


What is the correct forum for proposals?

Sorry, that should have read 'this' forum. Essentially, we believe that it is best to present a draft to this forum for discussion and possibly amending before actually submitting the proposal. This method would save us from a lot of dross. Thankfully, this is pretty good as it stands. No blame is attached to the author; they are relatively new to NS.

With regards to the game mechanics issue, I'm concerned that Emperor Matthius may have a point. I've telegrammed Enodia for clarification.

Maya Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs

I'm curious as to why we would want to pass a resolution that emphasizes the status quo. There are no resolutions on the book that infringe upon the right that you pound upon, thus the UN policy is to not infringe upon those rights. Do we really need a resolution that enforces a fact of the current system?

Furthermore, is everyone aware that without some very careful definitions and a few more clauses this resolution would prohibit the United Nations from ever passing an arms control resolution? We could officially ban battlefield nuclear artillery, but this proposal would make it illegal to do so because said artillery is really just a big nuclear handgun, and thus falls under firearms regulation.

Lets think this through.

Sincerely yours,
Daniel M. Hillaker
Minister of Foreign Affairs

I support this proposal and hope for the return of national sovreignty in this and other areas.

SOPHISTA: "I'm curious as to why we would want to pass a resolution that emphasizes the status quo."

I believe one could argue the same for the "Rights & Duties" resolution; which, I might add, Ecopoeia fully supported. At any rate, this proposal prevents the possibility of a gun ownership bill being passed in the future (subject to Enodia's all-clear...).

SOPHISTA: "Furthermore, is everyone aware that without some very careful definitions and a few more clauses this resolution would prohibit the United Nations from ever passing an arms control resolution? We could officially ban battlefield nuclear artillery, but this proposal would make it illegal to do so because said artillery is really just a big nuclear handgun, and thus falls under firearms regulation."

I believe the amendments suggested by Rehochipe would cover this. I agree that we have to be very careful with the wording of the resolution, which is why we (contrary to our earlier - and, indeed, rash - statement) would not approve this proposal as it stands. However, careful and thoughtful amendments arising from this discussion thread should enable the author to formulate an acceptable resolution.

Again, Xanadu-Utopia - please do not be disheartened. Hopefully the proposal in its current form will not reach quorum and you will get the chance to submit a stronger, successful proposal forged from the discussions here in the forum.

Maya Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs

With regards to the game mechanics issue, I'm concerned that Emperor Matthius may have a point. I've telegrammed Enodia for clarification.


Speaker Toitovna,

I share your concerns over this matter. In my hasty reaction to the numerous gun control proposals in our queue, I neglected to notice that it could be argued I have requested that the "gun control" category be removed.

Though I wonder if my proposal really does convey this. I meant to make it clear that my proposal only pertains to resolutions dealing with the ability of governments to decide their citizens' gun ownership rights. The key distinction being that my proposal turns a blind eye to the military. Thus, gun control is still a valid category.

I wish to restate that this proposal was submitted as a reaction to the high number of other proposals concerning gun control, in light of my stance that a government should have the right to decide on gun control laws for its citizens without UN intervention.

Elsepeth -- whose nation escapes me currently -- makes a good point; I should more clearly define what a "gun" or "firearm" is. I may yet do so when we can conclusively determine if my proposal is valid.

Thank you, colleagues, for sharing your thoughts on this. It has been a learning experience thus far.

The Envoy from Laio thanks the Speaker for Home Affairs, Ecopoeia for the sage and informative reply.

I will inform the Grand Duke of the respect and friendly-ness your nation has shown mine.

If you are ever have the opportunity to visit the Grand Duchy, the Annual Boone's Farm Wine Festival is an excellent time.

The Envoy from Laio thanks the Speaker for Home Affairs, Ecopoeia for the sage and informative reply.

I will inform the Grand Duke of the respect and friendly-ness your nation has shown mine.

If you are ever have the opportunity to visit the Grand Duchy, the Annual Boone's Farm Wine Festival is an excellent time.

This changed game mechanics so your proposal is not valid

Not necessarily, although Enodia's is the final word on the matter. This also came up when discussing Rehochipe's narcotics proposal, which similarly represented a ruling that the UN could not rule on the legality or illegality of recreational drugs.

We do not feel that this would be a game mechanics proposal, since every resolution that the UN passes restricts the right to pass further resolutions on the same subject. The Gay Rights resolution, for instance - as East Hackney is getting tired of saying - rules out the possibility of any subsequent measures to ban gay marriage.

We believe that this is no different to any other UN resolution. The game mechanic to submit contradictory proposals would remain in place if this resolution is passed; however, they would be invalid and hopefully would be deleted by the moderator.

Comrade Christian
Delegate for Law

LAIO: "If you are ever have the opportunity to visit the Grand Duchy, the Annual Boone's Farm Wine Festival is an excellent time."

You are very kind. The quality of Ecopoeia's alcoholic beverages has been increasingly recognised in this very forum (I refer you to the Strangers' Bar), particularly our Ochayepoeian 12 Year Old Single Malt and Seductively Smooth Malt Stout. We would be delighted to establish trade and cultural links with you, either in produce or via state visits, etc. I'm sure our Speakers for Welfare (John) and Leisure (Zo) would be very keen on visiting their namesake's Annual Farm Festival.

Best wishes
Maya Toitovna

Please inform any members of the Ecopoeian government that they may freely contactly the Grand Duke... to further cultural and economic exchanges.

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=laioo

Esteemed colleagues,

Let us first assume that the proposal under the microscope in this discussion is a valid one. If it is not, I will humbly drop the issue and move on.

I am more than willing to withdraw the proposal, modify it in at least two significant ways, and resubmit it, if that is what it will take to reach a quorum. The two significant modifications I have in mind are:

1) Define "firearm." What I have in mind are handguns, pistols, rifles, and shotguns. Shall I add anything else to this list? Is this modification even necessary?

2) Illustrate more clearly that this proposal applies to civilian firearms ownership, not to state firearms issues (nor to the military).

While I agree that civilians should not be in possession of flamethrowers or assault rifles, I believe this decision should be made by nations, not by the UN.

Let's see if we can work together on this.

--
Minister of Policy Development
United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia

Apparently this proposal "attempts to curtail the powers of the UN," or some such, so I am withdrawing my support for it.

I apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused any of you. I assure you that it was never my intent to do such a thing.

--
Minister of Policy Development
United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia

Apparently this proposal "attempts to curtail the powers of the UN," or some such, so I am withdrawing my support for it.

I apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused any of you. I assure you that it was never my intent to do such a thing.

--
Minister of Policy Development
United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia

Can we take it that this is Enodia's official advice on the matter?

We can.

Nothing personal against anybody in this thread, but my ruling is that the proposal had - as either an intended effect or an unintentional by-product - the prevention of the "Gun Control" category of proposal types. Hence, it is an invalid proposal to make.

We thank our feared and mighty Moderator for the clarification and cordially invite him to join us for a drink in the Strangers' Bar, where his calming presence has been - ahem - sorely missed in the last couple of days.

Colleagues,

The following is my first United Nations proposal. I urge you all to read it and discuss it, if you are so inclined. We the people of the United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia believe that laws respecting a citizen's right to own firearms necessarily impinge upon the sovereignty of nations, and such laws should be deliberated on by the nations themselves, not by the United Nations.

I thank you for your attention to this.


WHEREAS the United Nations fundamentally recognizes the sovereignty of nations and their right to self-governance,

WHEREAS legislation respecting the possession of firearms by citizens is a matter best considered by the nations themselves,

WHEREAS United Nations resolutions both for and against gun control are repeatedly proposed, but serve only to prevent other, more meaningful issues from being addressed in a timely, organized, non-bureaucratic fashion,

BE IT RESOLVED THAT all United Nations proposals respecting citizens' rights to own firearms be dismissed as they are outside the purview of the United Nations, and they impinge upon the sovereignty of nations.


--
Minister of Policy Development
United Socialist States of Xanadu-Utopia

Eve Region

This changed game mechanics so your proposal is not valid

There has been talk in Moderation forum about expanding the reasons for which proposals get purged, in order to expedite discussion of worthwhile issues. Maybe firearms could be one of the excludable topics, who knows.