NationStates Jolt Archive

Delegates,please,support my proposal against communist criminals and dictators:
Punish Communist Criminals! -this is the resolution name.
thank you,for a better world.
i also ask true Socialists to support me,not only rightists.now you could show that you are different of Stalin&co.
thanks.

The Esteemed Representatives of the Imperial Roycelandian Government humbly suggest that you spell and grammar check your proposals and posts before submitting them to the scrutiny of the UN, as many Nations (including ourselves) are extremely discerning when it comes to the wording, spelling, and grammar of Proposals and Posts.

Indeed, it is our firm opinion that the quality of one's post is linked firmly to that individual's intelligence and maturity level.

We would respectfully suggest that you refrain from posting poorly spelt or laid out proposals or posts in the future, as you will find the silence deafening with regard to the amount of support they will receive.

Our support is extended. Dictators can only brin distruction not peace. Peace is our motto.

*decides not to bring Aristotle's "philosopher-king" into this*

Isn't there a UN resolution that guarantees freedom of speech? How can you defend stripping that right from certain individuals whos views don't meet your approval?

Argh,

You didn't get it last time did you, grr, fine,

As previously mentioned, you little "proposal" violates several passed U.N. resolution instituted regulations, plus it goes against the basic one about the U.N.

" THOU SHALT NOT THREATEN A FORM OF GOVERNMENT "

You sure as hell judging by posts alone cannot spell,

And, well, oh yeah,

Nyah nyah nyah-nyah-nyah !

All done now,

- The Rep of Komokom. :wink:

It is always nice to see new brilliant proposals being discussed.

I have absolutly no problem with dictators and communist dictatorships, it is their actions which i am worried about. Communism, in theory, is probably the best system of government ever devised. Yet in practice it was disasterous. Depending on who you choose to punish and on what grounds, communist or fascist, you do not have my nation's support.
Unless they are living up to the standards Hitler and Stalin set.

I will never respect the sovreignity of dictators. If they are not properly elected representatives of their people, then they are not just rulers, and should not be treated as such. A government which does not respect human rights themselves, should not hide behind these same rights when they are threatened.

In fact, it is in the moral and civil interest of every democratic nation to disrespect the authority of oppressors. Democracy does in no way guarantee the freedom to oppress, this in itself defies everything that democracy stands for. Nine people cannot vote away the tenth person's rights, even if they do so in good democratic order, because then it would no longer be a democracy.

It's time for the free world to properly announce that they will tolerate oppression no more. If you deny the basic human rights to your own people, then those rights should in no way protect you when YOU need them. You have made your choice, and showed the world how you feel about these rights and their importance.

Just a little food for thought: a benevolent dictator in control of a struggling nation may be able to do a much better job and maintain a stability that a democracy could not. In the, ahem, 'real' world there are many examples - particularly in Africa - where countries have adopted democracy to their detriment.

I do not advocate authoritarian leadership as an ideal scenario but I suspect that in some cases it may be the best option until a country has the necessary infrastructure to deal with democracy.

Maya Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs

Our support is extended. Dictators can only brin distruction not peace. Peace is our motto.

Communistism destroys wealth not creates it!!! DOWN WITH COMMUNIM!!!

Our support is extended. Dictators can only brin distruction not peace. Peace is our motto.

Communistism destroys wealth not creates it!!! DOWN WITH COMMUNIM!!!

Yeah, kill the commies! Down with red and up with stars and stripes!

*laughs off-screen - hides his face*

Makanina wrote: Our support is extended. Dictators can only brin distruction not peace. Peace is our motto.

Amerricaaa wrote: Communistism destroys wealth not creates it!!! DOWN WITH COMMUNIM!!!

Amerricaaa - why reply to Makanina in this manner? Your comment is out of context. Go back to sleep, dearie.

Maya Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs

Makanina wrote: Our support is extended. Dictators can only brin distruction not peace. Peace is our motto.

Amerricaaa wrote: Communistism destroys wealth not creates it!!! DOWN WITH COMMUNIM!!!

Amerricaaa - why reply to Makanina in this manner? Your comment is out of context. Go back to sleep, dearie.

Maya Toitovna
Speaker for Home Affairs

Just what I meant :lol:

*sighs*

It won't work. No one can abolish communism through the UN because theyt guarentee the right to practice whatever political form one should choose. And besides, all of us "communists" tend to have better freedoms than the capitalistic nations.

As a point: What if I submitted a proposal saying "Ban Capitalism" what would you say? I leave your government alone, you leave mine alone, it just works better that way.

"I don't believe that the UN has the perogative to condemn a form of government such as Communism. Therefore, we cannot accept this proposal. Though the Kingdom of Phillipsania has few Communist leanings, we accept their right to exist just as any form of stable government. To be fair, all the Communist states we have seen are only Socialist states in transition. The world has yet to see a purely communist state, though according to Marx it is a 'scientific inevitability.' We mustn't pursue policies in which we attack communism or declare it an 'evil,' but instead just let the natural progression of things take over. History is a series of conflicts, as the Marxists would put it, and we must wait and see. Personally, I don't believe the day of a communist world will come and I even suggest against communism, but I will not force my opinions on other nations. "

Lord Alan Winchester
Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Phillipsania

But you will gladly stand by and watch others force their views on the unwanting? If so, then you respect the human rights no more than the oppressors do.

The transition from Socialist State to Communism has never happened for a reason. Marx himself never explained a thorough view on how this would happen, because the answer is simple; it cannot.

And even if a dictator could rule more efficiently than an elected official, it is beside the point. The point is, that no matter how efficient, he is not a representative for the people. They did not choose him as their leader, and thus, he is and forever will be unfit for the task. A state is defined not by it's leader, that is just one person. A state is defined by the people who dwell there. The only legitimate state is one where the leader has the undisputable support of his people, and this can only be assured through democracy.

Claiming that communist states have a higher degree of personal freedom than their capitalist respectives shows nothing but a view on the world sustained by blinders. Volountary blinders, I might add. Since the government controls all media, "in the people's interest", all official reports must be viewed with a critical eye; they are not reliable by default.

When the Iron Curtain fell, and the atrocieties of China, Soviet and similar states was revealed to the public, a very common argument from the remaining socialists and communists in the west was "We didn't know". And yes, it is true that the official guidings issued to tourists were not showing the real situation. But testimonies from former chinese "tourguides" tell a frightening tale. Summarised, it usually goes as following: "Yes, we decieved you. But you wanted to be decieved."

And yet Marx did indeed define how this eventual progression shall occur. The fundamental clash between Bourgeoise and the Proletariat is fundamental. A true marxist would not change the government system from witihin. The natural progression, as Marx would put it, occurs in that the Bourgeoise will constantly bicker amongst one another and thus grow smaller in size (since indeed Capitalism is a series of conflicts and open markets), while the Proletariat grows bigger and bigger. Marx then stipulates that when this porportion grows large enough, it shall be the duty of the working class to overthrow their "oppressors."
When this occurs, the period known as the "dictatorship of the proletariat" occurs. This is where most modern conceptions of communist nations are located. If anything, at this point it has been perverted. The dictatorship must remain until ALL threats from the outside are eliminated...that is countrrevolution. When this occurs, the dictatorship is not needed by the populace and falls into disuse. In a perfect world, when full communism is achieved, government disappears.
Capitalism and Communism shall always clash. It seems as though one wants to destroy the other. The one tool that Capitalism can use is to essentially not "play the game" of hatred and class conflict that Communism preys upon. Marx believes the state is inevitable, building upon the Hegelian rhetoric of cause and effect, in such parameters. The only way capitalism has been able to combat this is by "throwing a bone"...IE Universal Male Suffrage, 9 Hour Work Day, 6 Day Work Week and Labor Unions. This "syndical socialist" leaning in Capitalism is starting to blur the line a bit.

As for the mandate of government from the masses, I believe that tyranny is very much a reality with the masses as with one person. The enlightenment has espoused these ideas of "Universal Laws" for everything...IE Human laws. This cannot be! All is relative to certain regions. Russia was susceptible to Socialism due to their previously communal nature and weak capitalist system, but I could not see such a system seriously working in perhaps Western Europe a hundred years ago. My personal beliefs on the mandate are of no consequence in this debate, but instead I argue against 1. Steroytypes of Socialism and Communism 2. Democracy as the World's Saving Force
It is simply a hsitorical fact that a nation is judged by its leader, and I agree with that. As Bismarck would agree, true works of a nation are not forged "by Committees and mass vote."

::stakes a large sign at the door::

"Warning: This Room Contains Philosophical Rants and People Who Refuse To Read the Standing Rules of Order. Enter At Your Own Risk"

The worst thing about historicists is how much they go on.

I myself have negleted to read the rest of this thread due to unthoughtful nature of it. First off you cannot change or propose a resolution that is in conflict with another resolution already passed. With that said there is a resolution that was passed a long time ago that states countries are free to govern their own territory anyway they choose as long as it does conflict with resolutions already passed. also that would not eliminate that style of government anyway a leader most assuredly would surrender his position peacefully at all and would withdraw from the UN before that happened. And remember proposals/resolutions only affect UN countries.

Lord Jake incites:

"The UN is about world improvment, not controlling how a country is run."

Lord Jake of Cassopia does not recognise this propostion and deems it void.

Have a nice day.

Your's truly,
Spokesman for Lord Jake of Cassopia,
Adnan J. Chandoog.

we cannot, will not and do not support discrimination on the basis of idiology.

marxism may not be the ultimate answer to capitolism. it was though, an honest attempt to fill a real need for one to exist. a real need that continues to exist today, if not more now then ever!

=^^=
.../\...

U.S.S. of Ruissia rejects your proposal

Come to think of it that the dictators arent only in communist nations. Also, we communists have nothing against you lot, we would very much like to cooperate. Dont go fussing about if your nation isnt as good as the mighty communist nations!

The worst thing about historicists is how much they go on.

I do hope that I was not being referred to! I attempted to be as brief as possible discussing a very delicate subject. Very apt of you to notice that I am a historian above all. Furthermore, this is far from one of my rants.

King Paul VI
Kingdom of Phillipsania

This is yet another instance of the attempts of several member-states using the UN to undermine the rightful sovereignity of independent nations. We, His Supreme Highness the Grand Duke of Hamptonshire, do not support this measure. While Communist dictatorships and other authoritarian regimes can cause great harm to the people, We would not agree to any attempt to regulate the government of a sovereign and independent nation.

His Supreme Royal Highness,
The Grand Duke of Hamptonshire

It should be noted that i only have about ten seconds before I leave for school, but:

The very word dictator means that that person has supreme authority over what they govern. Any attempt to put the UN in control over their governorship would simply result in them leaving the UN.

As for their subjects, when a nation is created, where do the base 5million people come from? They subject themselves to the dictator's rule BY CHOICE.

gotta go...

I myself am a dictator, and there is no way I would for for this proposal anyway.

Our support is extended. Dictators can only brin distruction not peace. Peace is our motto.

The representative of the Holy Empire of DubyaShrubland changes seats, further from the smell of the pacifist liberal whacko spouting useless verbiage into the void.

Communism all the way. Its the best for the overall people of the world.

You know, communism isnt evil at all. The very idea is very new agey. In a country where there is no upper middle or even lower class, where every one works to provide for everyone else. But, in the Soviet Unions case their government was corrupt, and pocketed all the money so the economy failed. You can have a democratic socialist state, hmmmmm interesting.

If in the unfortunate event the UN decides to start targeting particular forms of government, we propose that the first targets be the fascist disctatorships.

That would give us more targets; there are few communists about these days, but you can throw a rock on any crowded street and hit a fascist.

As you will find in the list of proposals I have drafted one. It is entitled A Quest to End Communism. Also I ahv a poll and a message posted on the UN forum. Also, if anyone is looking for a new rgion to depart to and is firmly against Communism I invite you to join the region which i reside in, The Right Wing, we stand firmly against Communism and all aspects of it. Thank you, and may we continue the fight against Communism.

I would like to make a allience with your nation no matter how big or small it is. We will help you with war and such but you must do the same to us.

Please reply soon,

The Federation of Frith

I would like to make a allience with your nation no matter how big or small it is. We will help you with war and such but you must do the same to us.

Please reply soon,

The Federation of Frith

Okay!

Now that I have the time necessary for a proper reply...

I will never respect the sovereignty of dictators. If they are not properly elected representatives of their people, then they are not just rulers, and should not be treated as such. A government, which does not respect human rights, should not hide behind these same rights when threatened.


When I stated before that at the forming of the nation the subjects all collaborate under one power, I meant collaborate literally. These subjects do not sprout up out of the ground! They are intelligent people who, for whatever reason, chose to leave their previous establishment and be ruled by the dictator.

That's right, it is their choice.

Now, you must also take into consideration that the government's right to govern does not come from lineage or firepower, but from the people who s/he rules.

I don't remember who said this:
No man is good enough to rule another without that man's consent.

If the people didn't like the dictator, then they would simply leave. Emigration is almost always legal. It wouldn’t even be hard to move away, especially after the passage of “Passport Harmonization” by Stormymilkshake.

Communistism destroys wealth not creates it!!! DOWN WITH COMMUNIM!!!

As for communism harming the economy, this couldn’t be more far from the truth. Giving the government nearly complete control of people’s lives puts them in direct charge of the economy, making them solely responsible for it’s success. When you can order people to spend their money, you can literally tell them to strengthen the economy.

Realize, the economy itself is not simply how much money there is to go around, it is how much people are spending it. When people spend money on things, the money circulates to the stores, then to the factories, then through the owners and workers to the stores again, the net result being that everyone gets their expensive stuff and continues getting money and spending it; Society progresses as a whole, not as a select group of movie stars who don’t have enough things to spend money on.

Now, the problem comes in when you order people to spend their money. People don’t want to spend it, and this becomes a center of a major conflict. People rebel against the government for telling them they should buy a nice car, and the dictator in charge of such a communist society cannot control the people by normal means.
The dictator is forced to control them through the use of the military and police force, which causes him/her to seem very corrupt and immoral, bringing about such arguments as you are now putting forth.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a democracy, people get to do what they want; whether it is to spend their money on as much booze as they can handle, or if it is to save it all and hand it down to their heirs.

The later half causes great economic problems, as now a select few people hoard the money, and nobody else has enough to buy anything.

The only way in which the money circulates is through taxes, so the government has to increase the taxes. When the taxes increase, the people have now only 75% or less of their already little income.

Nobody buys nice things, as nobody has the money, resulting in the stores closing down, which forces the factories to shut down, which causes the whole system to crumble.

The entirety of society is cast into poverty because of democracy.


Now, how can you say such horrible things about dictatorship and communism?
You can’t simply point to “Saddam Hussein” in the “real world” and yell “see, dictators suck.”

Look at Japan. (again, in the “real world”)

It has one of the strongest economies in existence, and this is because of communism, which is under the dictatorship of the current Emperor Akihito.

Hold your tongues. Dictatorship is supreme (no pun intended)