NationStates Jolt Archive

Thank you, delegates, who lent your approval to the new Proposal. This, as I have told many of the delegates already, will be a crucial advance to the scientific community. I will include a poll along with this post to see who all will be supporting or not supporting, or wont be voting for this proposal.

The empire of steelworks is extremely interested in supporting the Space Program, and would like to be contacted with any information regarding the Program as soon as it is available.

we at Guaifenasin believe space exploration should be an endeavor pursued on an international level as no one nation has right to lay claim to celestial bodies simply by arriving upon them first. we believe it is in the best interest of the UN member nations to support this propsal.

The Rogue Nation of Greenspoint views this proposal as a necessary step in the future exploration of space. We whole-heartedly support it.

James Moehlman
Asst. Manager ico U.N. Affairs

I will vote against this proposal, because, as a future-tech nation, the Moon has already been colonised by individual countries, as well as many other places in the solar system. It would throw the colonies into chaos.

We here at the Empire of Berull feel that space exploration is extreemly important. I will certainly be voting for the U.N.S.C. to come into existence, but I also feel that it is important for individual nations to be able to continue to explore space on their own as they see fit. This will serve to improve our mutual chances for success, as each can inform the other of breakthroughs they have made! If the chance to sumbit a follow up proposal implementing these changes, the Empire of Berull will be most appreciative!

The Democratic States of hirota have been making large strides in developing rocket programmes and will gladly contribute to constructing of such devices, and are eager to develop such technologies alongside fellow Member states.

We will cast our vote in favour of this proposal and look forward to its implementation.

Sax Russell
Speaker for Science

The UESC Marathon will support, to the extent of its power and rights, this proposal, and will wholly endorse any further efforts towards the exploration and colonization of space under a united earth council.

We of the Armed Republic of BLORTH, will be choosing against this proposal, mainly because, pardon the pun, Uranus is ours. We personally feel as though we want to claim planets as ours. It's not our fault that our science is better than yours, but that's how it is.

The Dominion of Soniwaacman supports the UN Space Consortium.

But at this time we must vote Undecided, as we Debate all UN Votes with the member nations of the FOTRS.

I have supported this proposal and endorsed it 8)

I was contacted by Steelworks to answer some questions regarding this proposal. He has graciously agreed to let me publish his questions and my answers. Thanks Steelworks! His

Steelworks: The proposal mentions that a provisional board will be created of all nations participating in the U.N.S.C., however, no exact definition of "participating" is given. Would a nation simply purchasing stock be counted as "participating", or perhaps would all nations in the U.N.? If not, The Empire of Steelworks would appreciate a further definition.

Rixtex: A nation purchasing stock is participating. The purchase of stock is open for all, regardless of UN membership.

As the proposal is written, the first order of business is for all interested parties to participate in the Provisional Board, which only given duty and sole purpose is to agree on the size of the Board of Directors and to elect same. I volunteer to provide for a poll on the forum to determine the number of directors, a topic to accept nominations for the Board, and a poll to elect the directors. The easiest, most direct method would be that the candidates with the highest number of votes for the prescribed number of seats would be elected.

Steelworks: The proposal states that nations shall be able to purchase stock, but does not mention if stock could be purchased by other groups. For example, an entire region may want to buy stock, or pool together the stock of every nation in it under the region's name, or an extremely large corporation may which to purchase an amount of stock. Please provide further information of the possibility of this.

Rixtex: I hadn’t considered regions or other groups pooling money. Great idea. I would think the Board of Directors could provide for that.

Steelworks: We would like further information on the workings of this 'stock'. Specifically, the value of a given amount of stock (although it appreciates that this may not be available at this time), and also whether owning a large percentage of the stock would entitle a nation, region, etc., larger influence over descisions made by the U.N.S.C., as it does in the stock market.

Rixtex: The value and form of the stock will have to be determined by the Board. The Board and stock will have to decide on the voting rights of the stockholders.

Steelworks: How will current technology pertaining to space travel be treated? Since not all nations will be participating in the U.N.S.C., and some nations not participating may have some findings or technology pertaining to space travel which is not widely known, will this be ignored, or can the U.N.S.C. contact any such nation, etc.

Rixtex: I would think that the Board or its management would see the value of using the best materials and technology they can get their hands on, regardless of whether the provider owned stock.

Steelworks? How will contracts for the manufacture of any goods required or any other contracts be awarded to companies, and how will these companies be chosen? Since there will almost certainly be enough nations participating in the U.N.S.C. for contracts to be given to corporations residing only in those nations, will there be more of chance of corporations residing in participating nations to be given such contracts?Will nations that already have space travel and have busnesses which are all ready involved in the manufacture of goods pertaining to space travel, and that have factories or companies set up for this sole purpose have a better chance of being given such a contract?

Rixtex: As far as contracts, that is definitely a question for the board management. If whatever project the consortium is working on requires steel, whoever could supply the material or services required by the job description would get the business.

I will be glad to answer any questions anyone else has, but I think most are premature. I probably cannot answer them all, because I left the proposal intentionally vague. The stockholders through the Board of Directors need to decide the answers.

Pres. Rix Wax

We of the Armed Republic of BLORTH, will be choosing against this proposal, mainly because, pardon the pun, Uranus is ours. We personally feel as though we want to claim planets as ours. It's not our fault that our science is better than yours, but that's how it is.
I will agree with BLORTH he we should not jump to the UN other countries are exploring space as we speak Sephtoria has just built shuttle preareing for launch to mars to bulid Mars resident staion of Sephtoria sop i will disagree with this propolse it will be a race and SEPHTORIA HAS CLAIMED MARS and if u stand in our way u wont see day light again for our Seph Goblin units will move in and kill all in ur nation and if you agree we will open the MARS trade link between other countires

haven't seen the proposal itself yet

thumbs up general pricipals consolodating planetwide international joint space exploration commission.

reserving further judgment untill seeing text though

=^^=
.../\...

I have not seen the actuall proposal yet, so please allow me some "slack" for my possible inaccuracies.

The Republic of CCN proposes that we allow already colonized space lands to exist as they did, but all other un-colonized lands be automaticly claimed, with passage of this bill, by this International Consortium. Before we, the International Community, start colonizing random planets, lets first work on things for a better life on earth. Let it be known that CCN will strongly support this proposal (not mine, Int'l Space Consortium), as long as it will not override other, more important, earthly matters.

We of the Armed Republic of BLORTH, will be choosing against this proposal, mainly because, pardon the pun, Uranus is ours. We personally feel as though we want to claim planets as ours. It's not our fault that our science is better than yours, but that's how it is.
I will agree with BLORTH he we should not jump to the UN other countries are exploring space as we speak Sephtoria has just built shuttle preareing for launch to mars to bulid Mars resident staion of Sephtoria sop i will disagree with this propolse it will be a race and SEPHTORIA HAS CLAIMED MARS and if u stand in our way u wont see day light again for our Seph Goblin units will move in and kill all in ur nation and if you agree we will open the MARS trade link between other countires


I do not agree with either of these quotes. I will lobby against your claims to these planets, to the UN and to allied nations of yours. If this proposal is passed, I will do any and all efforts to enforce it upon all planetary claims.

Whereas the nations of the world wish to unify their efforts at space exploration, and

Whereas, no nation can claim title to the Moon,

Let it be resolved, that an agency to be named the United Nations Space Consortium (hereafter referred to as “U.N.S.C.”) is hereby created. The purpose of the U.N.S.C. shall be to establish a permanent Lunar Base capable of furthering the exploration of space for knowledge and resources.

The U.N.S.C. shall be incorporated under the charter of the United Nations and entirely funded through the sale of stock to any desiring nation, regardless of their affiliation to the United Nations. Non-participating nations are free to pursue their own space objectives, but would not reap the rewards of the investors. No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution.

A Provisional Board of Directors (“Provisional Board”) shall be composed of a representative from each nation participating in the U.N.S.C. immediately following the passage of this resolution. The Provisional Board will then proceed to elect a permanent Board of Directors (“Board”). No sale of stock shall occur before the seating of the Board.

Full operational control, design, development, priorities, and administration will be assigned to the Board whose service will remain subject to the will of the stockholders, as provided for in the Articles of Incorporation.

Let the nations of the world move forward together to a new frontier.


Approvals: 274 (Xaqon, NewTexas, Bweezystan, Amory, Beejaya, Ninatica, Lygonia, Wilkshire, Pope Hope, Reality TV shows, Bloodmoon-Hyperion, Corinos, Jibbila, Lakfakalle, Hobyania, Gremania, Tylerville, Valdore, Mattabooloo, Lagrange five, Kahvania, Graphdom, United Lobos, Hezik, Moralltach, Extended Play, Triggerzero, Antai, The Kompany, Libations, SouthHaven, Frisbeeteria, Jacordia, Monstranian, Mil-Galad, Snakestongue, Bristo, Vleesjus, Reeko, Guaifenasin, Ugarit, Grays Harbor, Treesetopia, Mentholyptus, Arrakin, Disagreeable bastards, Anward, Lost May, Peach Cobbler, Donelejo, Quorthos, Sopping Euphoria, Baudrillard, Beaumontia, Chrissopolis, Cheatopia, The Vatican State, Krep Lakastan, Dunnlovia, Sanctavia, Struistan, Tundaria, Basque country, Socialist communion, Purpleation, Vaenv, Parthini, Camillaland, The Christian South, Skellmania, Rune-Midgard, Renwaldia, Desudoragon, Debrick, Logical Allies, The Bruce, West - Europa, The Eagles Nest, Mathcamia, Erotisme, Hovin, Nazi Deutschland Axis, Inspirational Placebo, Nejan, Antigan, Burn Zone, Francos Spain, JStar, Scylding, Pessum Dare, Faybian, Midgard X, Binicius, Eztli, Lesser Tyrannus, Octaneo, Rio Negro, Maximuscrates, IDEA, Anxiety and stress, The Greater Humanity, 1 Infinite Loop, Aequitas and Veritas, Caligatio, Foukon, Good-doers, The Dark Arts Academy, Michael The Archangel, Atshitshi, Aliance Special Forces, Kattrosvik, Tom Swift Jr, Fallopian Tube, Juliangelus, MIXLANDIA, Australian yobbos, Stuardo, Elboniania, Xenopia, Clarification, Outspoken Undergotchys, Royalist Britain, Witherspoon, Ballyegan, Kepleros, Neophron, Celestial Sprout, Chanchos, Pnlrogue1, KalAmon, Painful intrusion, Caged Nigels, Alternativejesus, Murphdawggia, Intellitech, Blumploslovakia, Flagbird, Pictor Ignotus, Everyday, Jerick, New Excelsior, Democratic Donkeys, Brunel Drive, Fig, Republic of California, North Sovania, The Logarchy, Ravens Ait, Maxter, Burglars union, TSCaseyfield, Edgestine, Sulon, Outer Drasnia, Beatleland, Naffiss, Minni, Simak, Ravinglunatics, Webdale, Slytan, Shirresh, Czechoso, Lamoni, Genta, Mauss, New Davidia, Mt Zion, Goyle, Areus, Kamelott, Kalium, Kaildonia, Great Carthage, Fattydom, The Skyline, Homeless Wanderers, Gerentology, South Maffuccio, NouvelleTerre, Saxophone Players, Brians Room, Torn Blue Raincoats, Snake Venom, Zorroland, Derebey, That Which is Good, Dionalka, Sharkuras, The Heights, Hellifax, The Metternichs, Boischatel, The Alderran, Hern, Ninjasama, 8th and I, States of Stephenson, Imperial America, Captain Edgar Volgaard, Audiophilia, Rickerscottland, Mcpear, Zainfidel, Euphori, White Eagle, Hobslandia, West England, Yiddnland, Gentlemanly Behaviour, Novistranaland, Moleland, Kyuran, Fradettia, Bad Cider, Manorca, Jeanpy, Jhonen, House of Goblins, Hattia, Catalova, Milanya, Vermatuse, Hogwarts Castle - Gryf, Horsible, Conrado, The Emperor Fenix, The CID, Bragonnia, Coldharbourlane, Teracknor, Juan_IV, Forque, Elwist, Doo-Doo Butter, Ragbralbur, Long Beach Ghetto, Republican Iberia, Three Spinning Legs, Fahnelia, Brother Martin, Tal Maritima, Wallistan, Quam Osium, Beeazab, Juice Bag, Sauriana, Lucretius, Tossed Salazad, What Indeed, Vladmiristak, Germania Improva, Penguisiana, Soniwaacman, Trabay, Lafolletia, Mundainia, Tsukanta, Glorgak, Krisdom, The Holy Graal, Hippy Hangout, Los Manantiales, Sausyn, UberWench, Doggerbank, Greater Halo, Al Tar, Rabbiton, New Antar, Ringler, Lachish, Rodentoa, Moon Flower)

Status: Quorum Reached: In Queue!

and I think this should be bumped, as it is the current resolution in debate.

*Grand Duke Hendrik Ernesto von Wollonzollern y Bourbon sits at his desk, in the Ducal Palace of Laio, reading the Space Consortium proposal. He is heard to mutter... *

"It is all a scam on the part of the rich nations to steal the resources of space. The little nations will fund it, but the greedy major powers will reap the rewards."

My guess is the person who wrote this has never had a job let alone funded a project.

How you will put together a worthwhile board without some funding commitment is beyond me. I guess they are banking on the UN name. The UN and successful space projects there are two thoughts that go together. NOT!

Just how would the UN get to the moon? I'm sure the Russians will take them for a "small" fee.

What are the goals to be accomplished by the UN having a moon base? They say no nation can claim the moon but can the UN?

If the UN is going for "exploration of space for knowledge and resources" who owns those "knowledge and resources"? How would they be distributed? Would the UN get into the business of selling resources obtained in space to the nations of Earth? Would the solar system become UN territory? I'm not aware that these questions have ever been addressed.

The esteemed government of Trinity Road 9 would also like to know exactly WHO will be able to 'man' this lunar base.

If there are thousands of member states then any lunar base cannot possibly accomodate scientists from every one.
Even if some rota system is worked out, surely the weight of demand that will be placed on such an installation would place far too much pressure on its resources.

Our government has recently begun it's own space program and, as one of the smaller UN nations, we are concerned that larger members that can afford to allocate more money will receive the lions share of time on the moon.

The Republic of Trinity Road 9 therefore requests that the UN takes steps to ensure a fair decision when it comes to usage of the propsed lunar base.

Thankyou and Goodnight.


Geraint Von Dingleberry (Trinity Road 9 ambassador to the UN)

This resolution is ludicrous!! It means that the regular process by which land has been aquired ever since the beginning of time is now defunct!!! If you pass this reolution it makes any land aquisition in the future a total waste. Making the UN an actual nationstate residing over a total planet. This would go against everything that actually HELPS free trade and expansion. Colinization and ownership is the only way to go... the further expansion of larger nationstates would mean that smaller nationstates would not become such an easy target for aquisition in "wars."

This resolution is ludicrous!! It means that the regular process by which land has been aquired ever since the beginning of time is now defunct!!

You mean fraud and robbery with violence? One word: good.

You mean fraud and robbery with violence? One word: good.
In our tribal past, it was generally believed by the peoples of Rehochipe that the Moon is inhabited by a race of flourescent and warlike midgets, prone to descending to Earth on moonbeams in order to engage in acts of voyeurism upon the ablutions of the beautiful Rehochipean womenfolk. However, in our enlightened age of science we are given to the understanding that no such peoples exist, and that moreover the Moon is entirely inhospitable for sustaining human life. This not only means that the unprecedented example of land acquisition without fraud and robbery is, frankly, necessarily going to be the case, but has also led to a steep decline in our vulnerable shower curtain industry.
Rehochipe agrees with the general sentiment, however, that 'first come, first served' cannot be applicable to the Moon. The only justification this ethos has is the attachment peoples form to the land their forefathers settled upon; in the case of the Moon, deeply unsuited as it is for any permanent settlers, this argument is redundant.

Jeanne-Therese Palmaqut
Head of State

The Clan of APE will vote against this poorly concieved proposal!

The funding plan for this proposal is severely flawed.
People buy stock in expectations that they will recieve a return on their investment. There isn't even a plan, design or mission statement to believe in. It would be a better idea for the UN to sanction a pre-exsisting program or programs, and having them move under the UN umbrella.

The Clan of APE support the exploration of space. A primate was the first "earthling" into space in 1951, aboard a Aerobee rocket. In 1959, the monkey Sam made a suborbital flight in a Mercury capsule. Another monkey, Miss Sam, flew in a 1960 suborbital Mercury capsule. Ham, a chimp, made a suborbital flight in 1961 in a Mercury capsule.
First primate in orbit, the chimp Enos flew for two orbits of Earth in a Mercury capsule in November 1961. Even today, we continually support SETI in their search for extraterrestial life. using SETI @ home screensavers on all goverment and school computers.

Do not vote on this proposal as it is! It is ill concieved and destined to fail in practice. A better plan for Space Exploration/Exploitation should be conceived!

My guess is the person who wrote this has never had a job let alone funded a project.

OOC: Excuse me? I’ve been in the energy industry for 20 years and, while I’ve worked for others, have been involved in the funding of many projects. This is called a game, not reality.

How you will put together a worthwhile board without some funding commitment is beyond me. I guess they are banking on the UN name. The UN and successful space projects there are two thoughts that go together. NOT!

Interested parties can nominate and elect a board, who can determine a stock price and sell same. There has to be starting place. Have there been any UN space projects in NationStates? Not that I’m aware of.

Just how would the UN get to the moon? I'm sure the Russians will take them for a "small" fee.

You can go through the list of regions in NationStates and find several dozen that have space programs capable of getting to the moon. (See the last sentence of the OOC comment above.)

What are the goals to be accomplished by the UN having a moon base?

You gotta start somewhere!

They say no nation can claim the moon but can the UN?

Sure, why not? If the UN can make nations save their forests, why can’t they claim the moon?

If the UN is going for "exploration of space for knowledge and resources" who owns those "knowledge and resources"? How would they be distributed? Would the UN get into the business of selling resources obtained in space to the nations of Earth? Would the solar system become UN territory? I'm not aware that these questions have ever been addressed.

All of these questions can be addressed by the Board. It was not the intention to write an all-encompassing proposal so strict as to tie the hands of the Board and leave them unable to make decisions for the benefit of the Consortium’s stockholders.

The funding plan for this proposal is severely flawed.
People buy stock in expectations that they will recieve a return on their investment. There isn't even a plan, design or mission statement to believe in.

The Board of Directors, with the blessing of the stockholders, usually are the ones to plan, design, and write mission statements.

I left the proposal intentionally vague so as to give the participants the final say.

[If the UN can make nations save their forests, why can?t they claim the moon?

You must see the moon as being a small place, when in fact it is bigger than many planets. How to propose to hold claim to such a large region?
Do you plan on dividing it up equally into territories and distributing them to the shareholders based on the shares they have purchaced? Who will govern the moon? The UN or the shareholders? You and the members currently supporting this ill concieved proposal should look at the big picture. Individual nations have been to the moon and mars already, how will the UN deal with that? Your proposal has good intentions, but is seriously flawed and will fail in practice.

The Board of Directors, with the blessing of the stockholders, usually are the ones to plan, design, and write mission statements.

I left the proposal intentionally vague so as to give the participants the final say.

We should not be voting on vague proposals, make a solid plan first!

Sorry Rixtex did not mean to insult you, that's just how it read to me.

All of these questions can be addressed by the Board.
Yet another major flaw with this resolution; giving total control of UN space activites to an unelected board controlled by, as yet, unknown stock holders.

With all the Space RPs in NS this resolution will most likely pass with a wide margin. So we can all expect our economies to drop just as much as the last resolution dropped our political freedoms.

(sure wish this forum had a spell-check :) )

Despite the argument that has been made against this proposition pointing out that there are colonies on the moon, I will vote for it. These colonies have no legal authority over the moon, or will no longer have any once we pass this bill. It is our manifest dest. as an international body to take over the moon and the solar systems at the fringe. There is a precident for this action. Look at the American Indians- I say we round up the colonies and force them to pluto...unless pluto turns out to be rich in something...
My 2 cents.
Smashanddrink

This resolution is ludicrous!! It means that the regular process by which land has been aquired ever since the beginning of time is now defunct!!! If you pass this reolution it makes any land aquisition in the future a total waste. Making the UN an actual nationstate residing over a total planet. This would go against everything that actually HELPS free trade and expansion. Colinization and ownership is the only way to go... the further expansion of larger nationstates would mean that smaller nationstates would not become such an easy target for aquisition in "wars."

You make a strong and vaild point!
All UN nations should consider this when voting!

Despite the argument that has been made against this proposition pointing out that there are colonies on the moon, I will vote for it. These colonies have no legal authority over the moon, or will no longer have any once we pass this bill. It is our manifest dest. as an international body to take over the moon and the solar systems at the fringe. There is a precident for this action. Look at the American Indians- I say we round up the colonies and force them to pluto...unless pluto turns out to be rich in something...

And what legal authority does the UN have on the moon? About as much as it has on Alpha Centuri! The UN is an oraganization, not a superpower bent on controling the universe.

The Muppet Show of Etanistan has voted against this proposal for two reasons:

1. The corporation system of purchasing shares seems ill-defined in terms of the goals of the proposal. In a corporation, share holders buy their shares and expect that these shares will increase in value and perhaps offer dividends. What benefit is there to buying shares in this new UN organization? Will the shareholders with the most shares simply get to colonize larger parts of the moon or reap more of the resources from the moon? Or do they simply obtain a more powerful vote on international lunar projects? This resolution is unclear on exactly what the new organization would do or why it is necessary to sell shares in the new organization.

2. While it is unclear exactly WHAT powers are granted to nations who purchase shares, it is clear to us that the corporate shareholder model is ill-fitted to the goals of the resolution. Equating power with economic power is not a move FORWARD in international relations. If the goal of this resolution is to move away from a solar system in which wealthy nations control the fates of less wealthy nations, than the shareholder model is extremely counterproductive. It will merely create a new form of imperialism in which wealthy countries continue to be more powerful. We would propose a rotating board of member nations so that all nations have a term in power regardless of the wealth of their nations.

- Kermit D. Frog, Minister for Education and Public Relations, Muppet Show of Etanistan

the kingdom of kalto accepts the idea of world working togheter to achieve space colonization
this way space becomes an coooperation

the kingdam of kalto can not agree with this & will vote against the idea

our nation will ofcourse be willing to help but wil not support the present proposal

We would propose a rotating board of member nations so that all nations have a term in power regardless of the wealth of their nations.

Then how will you pay for it? It is beyond the remit of the UN to levy involuntary taxes, particuarly in an enterprise so cripplingly expensive as this one. While we are all in favour of egalitarian principles, we certainly do not have the economy to invest in such a long-range investment, and we would doubt that more economically robust nations would appreciate forking out billions and then handing over equal rights to minor states.

Kamquin Dakar
Ministry of Trade and Industry

We would propose a rotating board of member nations so that all nations have a term in power regardless of the wealth of their nations.

Then how will you pay for it? It is beyond the remit of the UN to levy involuntary taxes, particuarly in an enterprise so cripplingly expensive as this one. While we are all in favour of egalitarian principles, we certainly do not have the economy to invest in such a long-range investment, and we would doubt that more economically robust nations would appreciate forking out billions and then handing over equal rights to minor states.

Kamquin Dakar
Ministry of Trade and Industry

As a nation with a large space and orbital defence program we support this scheme as a way of promoting international co-operation and we shall make our research facilities available to assist in this scheme.

We would however not wish to make details of our defence platform open to the international arena, though we would of course provide escort protection of vessels within range of our platform.

We have voted in favour and hope for the success of this resolution.

Artorius Mentora - UN Ambassador on behalf of Emperor Jaius I of Beaumontia and Delegate for the Zhaucauozian Friendship

Yet another major flaw with this resolution; giving total control of UN space activites to an unelected board controlled by, as yet, unknown stock holders.

Uh, the proposal specifically says: "A Provisional Board of Directors (“Provisional Board”) shall be composed of a representative from each nation participating in the U.N.S.C. immediately following the passage of this resolution. The Provisional Board will then proceed to elect a permanent Board of Directors (“Board”)."

With all the Space RPs in NS this resolution will most likely pass with a wide margin. So we can all expect our economies to drop just as much as the last resolution dropped our political freedoms.

If the UN has no taxing authority under this proposal, and participation is entirely voluntary, why would your economy drop?

We the people of Poopooie will gladly support legislation for a fair and unified effort in space exploration. We offer any assistance our small but growing country can provide.

We should not be voting on vague proposals, make a solid plan first!

If a specific business plan or mission statement had been included, it would have:

1. Made the whole proposal incredibly long, and

2. made the whole idea inflexible, with the specific plan subject to endless debate over everyone's "better" idea instead if looking at the BIG picture, ie. a unified space exploration effort.

The place to debate a mission statement is in a stockholders meeting. Then all participants can have a say.

As a nation with a large space and orbital defence program we support this scheme as a way of promoting international co-operation and we shall make our research facilities available to assist in this scheme.... We have voted in favour and hope for the success of this resolution.

Are you planning on buying "shares" in the UN proposal?
Have you carefully read the arguements against the proposal?
Would you not rather have the UN invest in your exsisting space program, instead of building one from scratch?
Are you prepared to turn over any control you have off the planet Earth to the UN?
Are you prepared to be ruled by a "board of directors?"

Please reconcider your stand on this, this proposal will impede your exporation/exploitation of space!

As a nation with a large space and orbital defence program we support this scheme as a way of promoting international co-operation and we shall make our research facilities available to assist in this scheme.... We have voted in favour and hope for the success of this resolution.

Are you planning on buying "shares" in the UN proposal?
Have you carefully read the arguements against the proposal?
Would you not rather have the UN invest in your exsisting space program, instead of building one from scratch?
Are you prepared to turn over any control you have off the planet Earth to the UN?
Are you prepared to be ruled by a "board of directors?"

Please reconcider your stand on this, this proposal will impede your exploration/exploitation of space!

I support this proposal, and would very much like to be on a board of directors for this agency.

I support this proposal, and would very much like to be on a board of directors for this agency.

What if your chances of "directorship" were based on the number of shares you could buy? A board of directors has to be responsible to the shareholders, who in a proper corporation, have the vote on who's on the board or not.

Please read the arguments against this proposal carefully, before casting a final vote on the issue, thank you.

The Community of Jamirs Eternal Spirit opposes any plans to establish colonies on the moon. There is plenty we must adress on our own planet before using resources to launch a space program. Such an initiative has the possibility to ultimately bring doom to our own beatiful planet. Oppose this resolution!

This law conflicts w/ the "International Space Initiative" passed on Monday October 6, 2003.

This law conflicts w/ the "International Space Initiative" passed on Monday October 6, 2003.

Our legal team has advised us that this is not the case. The new resolution does not specifically contradict any measure in the International Space Initiative resolution.

Comrade Dawkins
Delegate for Science

We feel that the exploration of the outer reaches of the physical world are one of the two frontiers most worth the time of explotarion. Though our home is large, the infinities of space beckon. Though our people find their satisfaction at home, there are many who seek to push the envelope, to discover new worlds, and to cross the borders. The moon is a stepping stone beyond.

The other frontier worth the time of exploration is the frontier of the spirit. I lead my fellow sentients across the sea of uncertain existance along the Path into Enlightenment.

With humility and respect,

His Holiness the XXXV Reincarnation of the Bodhisattva Ganesh
Second Minister of Xian Fields

i support this proposal because it saves us from putting up more objects to the clutter up space. especially when we have other objects that are meant to do the same job. if we are all in this together we wont have unneeded and wasteful stalites and objects to cause more problems

Lil Mouse

This resolution poses a clear and present danger to the national security of all nations, as it will doubtless lead to increased proliferation of missile technology. The idea of unstable states with no ties to the international community whatsoever acquiring ICBMs to aim at any nation on Earth is an afront to everything the United Nations is supposed to stand for.

*Trumpets sound*

[Shouting loudly] ALL RISE!! The Disputed Territories of Genghiskhania has an announcement from the One and only, Chairman Lmao. [/shouting loudly]

“Ahem, the amused Chairman would like to maintain that “Disputed Territories” is not just a silly moniker. Nomadic lifestyles have been a part of Genghiskhania since the beginning of time. We refuse to back this resolution at this time. We feel our quest into outer space and our outstanding inner-space travels need no outside assistance at this time and could not buy a stock in any private buisness-esque UN venture into space."

*Trumpets sound*

The amused Chairman walks out with a smirk and a quick wink to the Queen of Duncanville.

I have sent my endorsement for this proposal to not pass. Although it is vague, it is clear how it will begin. The board will be selected and all PROCEDURES from there on will be put into motion by the BOARD. This is the plan that merely says there will be stock that can be purchased in this. I believe that working together is a lot more cost efficient and will advance us all as a whole much more faster. The only thing I don't quite agree with is the NON-UN clause of this whole thing. I believe that any NON-UN members should not be allowed to explore space, due to a lack of control of what could be done there. With thousands of nations working together, it is impossible to not notice that NON-UN activity in the interim could not only be detrimental to the process of development, and could possibly take away from the resources and valuable technologies to strengthen our nations, but even sabotage or weapons usage is not far from being out of the question. Eventually it will boil down to UN nations battling the NON-UN nations for the territories in space. Brilliant proposal, just needs to be revised a bit. I do not quite know the numbers on the NON-UN nations vs the UN Nations, but I think that the UN should do everything in its power to claim the space for itself. If that cannot be agreed upon then perhaps all nations should perform their own independent space exploration, as this would lead to much less conflict. Anything else will lead to pure pandemonium and chaos.

*An elegantly uniformed aide-de-camp rush's into the Grand Duke's private apartments. he bows and says... *

"Your Royal Majesty, the reporters await you in the next room."

*HRM Grand Duke Hendrik nods to the ADC... who immediately goes to the door and opens it. The Grand Duke passes through the doorway and walks to an antique podium... he begins speaking.*

"I call upon the nations of the world to resist this illegal and immoral attempt to create the UN as the only super-power. When Un space fortress and ships have their weapons pointed down your throats... it will be to late."

*The GD pauses and sips a glass of champagne... then resumes his speech.*

"This monsterous coup, to reduce the free nations of our world to slavery, cannot permitted to succeed. Remember will, my brothers and sisters... those that would sell us out to the UN beast."

Is it the contention of the honourable spokesperson for Rixtex that, should this resolution pass,

- ownership of shares will not tend toward the wealthiest nations, if not initially then by the action of a market in these shares; and that

- the makeup and direction of the Board will not tend over time toward the nations with the greatest capital investment; and that

- the Board may thereafter assume no influence or control over the trading of shares in the Consortium, especially to concentrate the power of the Board in the hands of the wealthiest investors; and that

- there is no danger of the Consortium devolving into a monopoly of wealthy nations beyond the influence of the international community; and thus

- the UN is not merely engineering the seed capitalization of a UN-badged, independently-controlled oligarchy of space?

Gardelain cannot support this resolution without explicit attention given therein to

- guarantee of powers of the international community over the mission and administration of the Consortium, not just at incorporation but in perpetuity, and

- controls and limits on the trading of shares to prevent their concentration in the hands of one nation or a self-interested bloc of nations.

If the UN is to concern itself with the exploitation of space, it must do so to the open benefit of all nations, without explicit or implicit favour to the rich. If it is the will of rich nations to form a consortium for the exploitation of space, then may they be free to do so, but not in UN livery - such would make a travesty of the UN and fools of the greater share of its members.

For Gardelain
VIGILANITIA REX

The other frontier worth the time of exploration is the frontier of the spirit. I lead my fellow sentients across the sea of uncertain existance along the Path into Enlightenment.


Please read all the arugements against this proposal, you will discover that your "path into enlightenment" leads into a black hole...

We oppose this resolution on the grounds of obsolescence - many nations have already developed space technology.

For more information, see the NationStates and International Incidents forums.

Lord Evif, Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder of the DU Region
Retired UN Delegate

Sale of stock sounds like a good way to raise capital, but how will ongoing revenue be obtained?

vote against this idea... we do NOT want to take the element of competition out of the space race... please view my post for my full argument

Sale of stock sounds like a good way to raise capital, but how will ongoing revenue be obtained?

Buy creating more shares! Devaluing all previously owned shares.
Normally, this would not be an issue, where shares had been increasing in value due to the company selling them achieving profitability. But since, I fail to see any monetary profit being generated by the UN Space proposal, your shares will eventually become worthless. Actually, they'll be worthless as soon as you buy them, in this case.

Non-participating nations are free to pursue their own space objectives, but would not reap the rewards of the investors.

What is meant by "rewards" should be clarified. Does this mean the scientific data (such as data about the Sun or the planets) gathered through this program, or does it just mean technological advances or even just the ability to use the phyiscal resources? It would be unwise to restrict communications of new discoveries from the UN space program only to the scientific community in countries that are part of the UN space program.

A permanent board of directors sounds very un-democratic (not to mention un-UN-democratic). It might be better if the directors were elected as proposed, but instead of being permanently granted power, were subject to possible votes of no confidence and given strict term limits. Several committees are necessary to run this sort operation - perhaps if nations were aggregated by their particular expertise, they could act as advisory committees, and instead of a board of directors (a very capitalist and business-like body) we formed more a sort of "space parliament". Although government initiatives, such as the one proposed here (and some of the Smithsonian in the US of A for instance) can be run "for profit" the department runs the risk of being subverted by its contractees, losing its power to control and instead, being controlled. (again the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum's IMAX was renamed from Samuel P. Langley, a pioneer in flight, to Lockheed Martin. More on Langley's contribution to flight here http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0004.shtml)

Finally, lets us appreciate the fact that being in space is an incredibly unique experience, very spiritual for some, and in the eyes of many, world uniting. Space (and the various bodies within it) should not simply be seen as a means to resources, and certainly not as a means to make specific shareholders rich while billions (or is the world population in the trillions now?) suffer.

This resolution is entirely bogus. Selling shares to fund a program (corporation) that has no income is ludicrous. Let's say the resolution passes, a billion shares are sold and the consortium has some money. When that money is spent on say, a rocket, where does more money come from? Why would I buy (or sell) a share in such a venture? To dump my space money into a black hole while some board of directors can decide how to waste it without my influence?

I have two problems with this whole suggestion:

1. I understand some idiot would come up with something as cockamamie as this, but why would the game's moderator even allow it to be posted for the rest of us to see?

2. The positive votes for this issue tells me that most of the people playing this game aren't paying attention. Unless you people take the time and actually think about the issues then why would you waste your time on this little experiment?

We, the people of The Rogue Nation of New Templeton, have voted solemnly against this measure. We do not feel the need to have to pay for fledgling Third-World countries to develop their space program, when we could instead spend the money on our own. New Templeton feels that those privledged enough to go into space should not have to pick up the slack for other, poor countries, which should just be annexed by the larger ones. As of yet, The Rogue Nation of New Templeton has not reached the moon, but our goal is to be there in the winter of 2005. See you there.

-Monte Miller

Premier of the Rogue Nation of New Templeton

I respectfully request an endorsement from your gracious country for the following UN proposal

I propose we take the lunar base further, and begin a permanent mining colony on the moon, this way, we will have the basic know-how and experience to move even further than the moon and someday colonize Mars.

I propose, not heavy mineral depleting mining, just minor excaveation. Study the different elements of the Moon. Even more importantly have a steady stream of traffic from here to the Moon. Send small mining families, heavy military police force, and lunar scientists.

Build radio telescope relays, and begin launching permanent telecommunication satellites around the Moon. Turn it into a metropolis. Send long term prisoners there for labor resources. Get other countries involved besides fellow U.N. nations. Make the moon an asset to the mother world of Earth. Cease heavy mining on our own planet.

Build and launch the Moon's own space program, that works along with ours. The first man mission to Mars should be launched from this program.

In conclusion, I propose a long term space exploration plan that utilizes the Moon as a stepping stone to Mars, increases U.N. territory and increase our small knowledge of the universe.

Thank you for your time

The positive votes for this issue tells me that most of the people playing this game aren't paying attention. Unless you people take the time and actually think about the issues then why would you waste your time on this little experiment?

My feelings exactly, I doubt that many even bother to completely read the proposal and fewer ever bother reading the debate here. They see the word "SPACE" and their eyes glaze over and they have fantazies of "Star Trek" or "Star Wars," and blindly go vote yes where they should be voting NO!

How, exactly, do you plan to enforce such a ridiculous claim? The UN lacks the power to effectively wage war against the entire lunar population and their allies; indeed, if said nations wished, they could simply rain down rocks upon the planet's surface until the UN submits to their will.

Axis Nova denounces this resolution as illegal and unenforcible, as well as infringing on the freedoms and territory of the lunar nations. When we start our own space program (and eventually, our own moonbase), we shall be ignoring the UN's claim as outside their jurisdiction.

In plain english, if your space lawyers attempt to interfere with our or anyone else's law-abiding activities in outer space, it is quite likely they will be blasted out of the sky.

Good day, sirs and madams.

Axis Nova State Department

(OOC: In case I didn't make it clear above, Axis Nova as yet has no space program, but we will in the future.)

Good day to you all.

I write this to you on behalf of our nation's king. He has but one
question: when it says that any may invest regardless
of their UN affiliation, does this give them much in the way of
rights/control over the space station/s / stocks etc?

Do they reap anything from this whatsoever? Or does sole profit go to
UNSC nations?

He wonders because one of his biggest fears in this endeavour - noble
though it certainly is - is corruption.
He goes on to state that his fears may be - and he certainly hopes they
are - groundless, however
he feels the need to know.

He goes on to ask if there is a chance of the focus on the
endeavours of space discovery etc being compromised by
outsider corporate greed etc.

Chalk it up to stupid questions if you will, however he feels that, with
such a humongous endeavour as this, in the preparations there are
few such things as stupid questions.

A good day to you all,

Quentin Bywater,
Secretary to the King,
Kingdom of Tyrenburgh

Having read the proposal and thought about it. I feel there are several things wrong with this.

It is stated that a permanent board of directors will be elected. IMV, no director should be permanent, all should have strict limits on how long they can serve, and number of times they ar eallowed to hold a directorship.

The mere idea that the proposed UNSC can be funded by the purchase of stock is ludicrous. space exploration in the short to medium term is loss making. Even taking a long term view it is likely to be many decades before any UNSC would become profit making. Without a short/medium term ROI, I cannot envisage any continuing investment in the organisation through stock purchase.

There is no indication of what rewards are to be limited to the investors. This by its very nature goes against what the UN itself stands for. All scientific and technological rewards should be available to all UN members, whether or not they are contributary members of the UNSC. OTOH, those states investing in stocks of the organisation should receive rewards commensurate with their investment, however, they should not be looking to make vast profits from the organisation.

From: The Abandoned Colony of Lunar Rheinland
To: Various Nations
Subject: Earth Imperialism

"This proposal is an outrage, a crime, it´s imperialism in its most brutal, most cruel form!

The UN, being an instrument of the earthlings Herrenrasse, plans to colonise the moon, completely ignoring that eleven nations with several billion people already live on the moon! Or behind the moon, for that matter.

This is just like Cortex coming, talking about friendship, and then, when nobody is looking, cruelly slaughtering the population!

But we will not share the fate of the indians! We will fight! DEATH TO EARTH IMPERIALISM! DEATH TO EARTH! A FREE MOON FOR US! FOR ALL OF US!

The UN has no right to decide upon something that doesn´t belong to earth! The moon is free, free from earth, free from the UN!

As founding nation of the very first moon colony, as oldest resident on the moon, I, and the people of Lunar Rheinland, stand against this blatant act of aggression by the imperialist, fascist earthlings!

FREEDOM AND VICTORY!

And to all peace loving, free, and independend earthers, I say this:

Stop the racism! Stop the imperialism! Vote against this proposal of injustice! Be FREE from the greed of your governments!"

~ Speaker for angry minorities, Heilbronn Heidelberg

We reach out to you our kin on Earth, and ask you to vote against this proposal.
The moon is not a lifeless rock to be divided among the nations of the Earth like some sort of gigantic cake, it is our home.
Can you honestly claim to be a member in good standing of this august body, founded on the ideals of peace and fraternity, and yet endorse this heartless proposal which would see our beloved Luna defiled under the imperialist boot?
Can you?
The inhabitants of your nearest neighbour would ask you to cast your eyes elsewhere in our battered system, lest the Moon degenerate into an other Mars, wracked and ruined by war.
Vote no!

In light of the recent developments and the comments of other nations, the Republic of Trinity road 9 will be withdrawing its support for the proposed space program.

As it currently stands, Trinity Road is not prepared to accept any fiscal interference from the UN and is also unwilling to forfeit land rights which could potentially benefit our country and the United Free Peoples of Green.

If the proposal is accepted in its current form and Trinity Road 9 IS forced to comply then this government would have to seriously consider a boycott of the UN.

The government of Trinity Road 9 would also srongly urge other nations to consider similar actions. :twisted:

Billy O'Connor (Minister for Stirring)

All nations stand to gain from the exploration of space and as such, all responsible nations must share the burden of cost. Joint exploration will also allow the responsible development of the Moon for peaceful means for the advancement of all.

Dakares is keen to embark on the next frontier of discovery and will place its industry and its scientific community fully behind this initiative. However, we would welcome the future discussion of safeguards to prevent the exploitation of outer space for military means, and would ask that this be addressed as a serious issue by those appointed to manage the UNSC.

President Alexander, Democratic States of Dakares

Despite the argument that has been made against this proposition pointing out that there are colonies on the moon, I will vote for it. These colonies have no legal authority over the moon, or will no longer have any once we pass this bill. It is our manifest dest. as an international body to take over the moon and the solar systems at the fringe. There is a precident for this action. Look at the American Indians- I say we round up the colonies and force them to pluto...unless pluto turns out to be rich in something...

And what legal authority does the UN have on the moon? About as much as it has on Alpha Centuri! The UN is an oraganization, not a superpower bent on controling the universe.

We have total authority, bub.

We reach out to you our kin on Earth, and ask you to vote against this proposal.
The moon is not a lifeless rock to be divided among the nations of the Earth like some sort of gigantic cake, it is our home.
Can you honestly claim to be a member in good standing of this august body, founded on the ideals of peace and fraternity, and yet endorse this heartless proposal which would see our beloved Luna defiled under the imperialist boot?
Can you?
The inhabitants of your nearest neighbour would ask you to cast your eyes elsewhere in our battered system, lest the Moon degenerate into an other Mars, wracked and ruined by war.
Vote no!


You may stay on your rock...but you will abide by our laws, which may include moving off your...OUR rock. If you do not, you will then be in violation, hence VERY illegal. We will have no option but to ignore you, take your..OUR land, and do what we will. Move on...

The Dripping With Sarcasm Leader of Smashanddrink, Smashandrink Esq.

:idea: To All Concerned, Please consider voting against the proposed space bill. I feel that those smaller and poorer countries not able to buy a "stock" in the moon base would once again be left behind only to spend more eventually on the scientific knowledge that the larger countries will control.
King Lomazzo

The Federation of Zephyrs has voted against this proposal.

The UN, being an instrument of the earthlings Herrenrasse, plans to colonise the moon, completely ignoring that eleven nations with several billion people already live on the moon! Or behind the moon, for that matter.

We're not sure precisely how a nation whose strongest form of rule appears to be violent biker gangs manages to sustain existence in an environment as harsh and inhospitable as the Moon.
I'm not sure how far it's legitimate to take the 'random stuff we made up for flavour that doesn't have any game effect' thing. Although there's no ruling on it whatsoever (and if anyone has better authority on this feel free to stop me) but I think it's assumed that you can't draw any benefits from it - you can't demand that your populace have lifespans of several millennia because you've decided that you're all Elves, you can't decide that a UN resolution on toothbrush standards would breach your human rights because your population has a genetic defect that causes their heads to explode if forced to comply with resolutions on toothbrush standards, and you can't hold up a UN resolution because you've decided your region's on the Moon.

Jeanne-Therese Palmaqut
Head of State

Ladies and Gentlemen,

My fellow deligates do not allow this measure to pass! This is a step toward a one world government which is not an objective of Nation States.
This is a huge error in judgement that this refuse of a plan was even approved to introduce.

Space Expolration is the apex of a countries existance. An achievement in infasturcture, research and economy, the idea of this international Space Commission is an out rage. The Confederacy of NLW, is not yet able to send a flight into space. Let us not cheapen it with an international help. Let it be and individual acheivement and not a international one.

The President of the Confederacy of NLW to the U.N. body.

The Confederacy of NLW, is not yet able to send a flight into space. Let us not cheapen it with an international help. Let it be and individual acheivement and not a international one.

We've said it before, we'll say it again. This resolution does not prevent your nation from pursuing its own space programme.

Comrade Dawkins
Delegate for Science

*The GD of Laio is enjoying a working lunch of his favorite finger-nibblers... in his Ducal Office. He is watching coverage of the UN by GDL-TV. Hendrik looks up as he hears the President of the NLW say... *

do not allow this measure to pass!

"Most excellent... I must send the NLW Prez a case of my finest bubbly."

*The Grand Duke thinks to himself... *

~I wonder if the NLW is a member of the UN. I will order some research to find out. The only way to defeat the One-Worlders is by out voting them in the Assembly.~

*GD Hendrik pushes a button on his desk and speaks... *

"To my Minister of Finance... check to see if any are bongs available to fund a 'Join the UN' drive. It will be a cover to get non-members, who oppose the Beast, to join and out-vote the One-Worlders."

[If the UN can make nations save their forests, why can?t they claim the moon?

You must see the moon as being a small place, when in fact it is bigger than many planets. How to propose to hold claim to such a large region?
Do you plan on dividing it up equally into territories and distributing them to the shareholders based on the shares they have purchaced? Who will govern the moon? The UN or the shareholders? You and the members currently supporting this ill concieved proposal should look at the big picture. Individual nations have been to the moon and mars already, how will the UN deal with that? Your proposal has good intentions, but is seriously flawed and will fail in practice.



Your science is flawed and so is your knowledge of the space around us. You have been very vocal against this legislation. If you would be able to provide well sustained and logical reasons not to vote for this bill, your voice would be more widely recieved. Since your ignorance of the subject is duely noted, I would like to ask you to stop posting on the subject since you do not know what you say.



UN Delegation of Kimchaka

We should move foward with this program, but I think this resolution needs more long term goals which are sited in my proposal 'Further than the Moon,' which is up for vote.

I have just created a lunar region, if any wish to join you may. It is the Eastern lunar region

I have just created a lunar region, if any wish to join you may. It is the Eastern lunar region

See what I mean? This resolution is unnecessary.

You can participate in this operation if you want to, and either way you can still pursue your own space objectives.

You can't call the proposal void because you claim the moon. The game doesn't recognize or assign geographical effects which is why nations on the moon still have to "save their rainforests".

As for who will govern, I think the way it will happen is nations will setup individual colonies, as when The New World was discovered, but eventually will begin to govern themselves. I think it should be setup as if you were populating an unpopulated area of your own country. Setup localized governments, setup your own people in the government provide incentives for people to move up there. Give exclusive rights to mining companies. World economy will grow from this. We have the technology we should move foward. Also check out my proposal which is up for vote entitled Further than the moon and let me know what you think on the forum which is self titled. I would appreciate any feed back positive or negative.

This resolution is worthless, since there are already nations on the moon who have made claims to it, and, bizarrely, the UN has no right to overturn those claims. Therefore, one can only rationalise this by the simple conclusion that NS-Earth has two moons; the UN is going to claim the one that isn't inhabited already. There.

"I aimed for the stars, but I hit London."
--Wernher von Braun

"Man is the best computer we have, and the only one that can be mass produced wtih unskilled labor."
--Wernher von Braun

"The space program will free man from his remaining chains, the chains of gravity which still tie him to this planet. It will open to him the gates of heaven."
--Wernher von Braun

Oh my goodness.. We are so gonna laser the bejesus out of the UN. You have no idea.

Oh my goodness.. We are so gonna laser the bejesus out of the UN. You have no idea.

It's a good thing that the DSH does not consider it possible for your nation to exist as we only recognise the usage of current day technology within reasonable limits. Therefore we would urge your civilians to hold their breath and get back to earth and it's abundance good old fashioned common sense nations.
_________________________
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/hirota.jpgThe Democratic States of Hirota (DSH) (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=hirota)
http://www.nationstates.net/images/un_member.gif For the region of cm4rums (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/32808/page=display_region/region=cm4rums)

...I will order a counter-resolution, this measure cannot be allowed to stand! This resolution goes way beyond the U.N. Charter, and that is what upsets the Confederacy, I cannot believe that this measure had the support to get out of preliminary debate. The U.N. needs an oversite board, this is redicules.

The President Nathan L. Watson
The Confederacy of NLW

...I will order a counter-resolution, this measure cannot be allowed to stand!

Good luck with it, but it'll get shot down quicker than I could say "game mechanics"

try and think before you post next time old boy.
_________________________
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/hirota.jpgThe Democratic States of Hirota (DSH) (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=hirota)
http://www.nationstates.net/images/un_member.gif For the region of cm4rums (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/32808/page=display_region/region=cm4rums)

This so called scientific venture is overshadowed by one, slight detail. That in truth, this resolution is an economic tool being used by the strongest member states to exploit the moon and use it as commercial property. It is one thing to have a space program and a lunar base. Its another if those that will gain the most benefits will be the wealthiest of nations. It is time we put our foot down and vote NO on this resolution... i would support other ways of funding a project to the moon. But this stock option is just wrong in rewarding the richest of the rich. What about nations that believe in the well being of fellow man? That all men are created equal? This space program is a farse! VOTE NO!

I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but let me see if I have this logic right.

This Space Council will be made up of all participating nations, with representatives from each nation making up the provisional board.

Participating nations are nations who buy stock in this space program.

No stock will be sold until a board is in place.

No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives. No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives. No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives..............

I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but let me see if I have this logic right.

This Space Council will be made up of all participating nations, with representatives from each nation making up the provisional board.

Participating nations are nations who buy stock in this space program.

No stock will be sold until a board is in place.

No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives. No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives. No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives..............



Have you ever been one of the founders of a business? The initial investors of a business put capital into a project, that is how you start a company. In time, after the board is created, the stocks will be written up, and handed out to those who have already paid to the company. Thus, those who have helped the company to get off the ground get the financial stake they are entitled to. That is how a company starts. This is the SAME thing as a business venture, except the company is actually the UNSC and the investors are the countries themselves. Once the actual UNSC lifts off the ground, the actual issuing of stocks will procede.






UN Delegation of Kimchaka

There are several reasons why this resolution is not a good idea.
1) The resolution leaves non-participating countries free to pursue their own programs - thereby not really addressing the question of who can "claim title" to the moon.
2) Scientific research generally follows two courses - that which seeks to benefit humanity as a whole and that which seeks to generate commercially viable prodcuts. These two courses are sometimes compatible, but often divergent (ie the US Pharmaceutical industry). By creating a joint stock corporation (and very clearly implying that profitable dividends will be derived) the resolution places emphasis on commercail profitabiltiy rather than pure knowledge. Not a good thing in my opinion.
3) The resolution limits any derived benefit (financial or scientific) that the UNSC would generate to only those nations which participate in its funding. This is in contradiction to the cooperative principles of the United Nations. The UNSC is the type of undertaking that is more appropriately undertaken by an independant consortium of nations rather than an organization which (at least in theory) seeks to better the entire world.
4) The joint-stock format will allow wealthy countries to control the undertaking, and ensure that the benefit of the research (economic, scientific discoveries with military applications etc) will go only to countries wealthy enough to participate. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
5) Lastly (and most importantly from a philosophical standpoint) the UN has no more right to claim the moon (or any other celestial body) than anyone else does. The only scenario I see in which the UN might pose that right is if it was in the interests of humanity as a whole, not an endeavor that will benefit only select nations.

I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but let me see if I have this logic right.

This Space Council will be made up of all participating nations, with representatives from each nation making up the provisional board.

Participating nations are nations who buy stock in this space program.

No stock will be sold until a board is in place.

No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives. No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives. No representatives, no board. No board, no stock. No stock, no representatives..............



Have you ever been one of the founders of a business? The initial investors of a business put capital into a project, that is how you start a company. In time, after the board is created, the stocks will be written up, and handed out to those who have already paid to the company. Thus, those who have helped the company to get off the ground get the financial stake they are entitled to. That is how a company starts. This is the SAME thing as a business venture, except the company is actually the UNSC and the investors are the countries themselves. Once the actual UNSC lifts off the ground, the actual issuing of stocks will procede.






UN Delegation of Kimchaka

Actually Kimchaka, that's not completely correct. I've participated in the incorporation of probably a hundred or more business. That's the way things might work if you were on the scale of oh, say a coffee shop or stand alone store - a sole proprietership or limited partnership maybe. Even then when the business is registered with the Secretary of State's office for your state (Secretaries of State issue state business licenses btw) the paperwork includes a description of the ownership of the business, which is given in terms of a number of shares of stock, even if there is only one owner. For any really large venture - and keep in mind that something on the scale of the exploration of space will involve hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars - stock certificates would be printed IMMEDIATELY. At least in the corporate world not so much as a penny would change hands without legal documentation (which is what stock certificates are after all) being issued stating exactly what their ownership percentage and rights are.

Before we, the International Community, start colonizing random planets, lets first work on things for a better life on earth.

Let it be known that the community of Bondak will vote against this proposal. Not on principal objection against space exploration, but because there are more important issues at hand in the already-known world, as mentioned above.

We think that space exploration should only be allowed when social security, health-care and welfare are equally deployed throughout the existing world.

For now, we find those conditions are not met. Our money and attention should not go into space.

Again, what of the nations who have already settled the moon? And what of nations that claim entire star systems as their territory? Klonor has Gamma Draconis and several others, I have Gregor, and Proxima Centauri is a region of several nations, and there are many others.

I have not set seen a proper response to the questions posed by lunar nations, other than ill-thought out "ignored" remarks. In the face of this UN expansionism, the People's Republic of Vernii will support militarily any lunar nations who enter into a conflict with UN "colonists". Also, I suggest any UN nation who has a problem with me controlling a star system to take it up with the business end of a 700 cm graser.

Your science is flawed and so is your knowledge of the space around us. You have been very vocal against this legislation. If you would be able to provide well sustained and logical reasons not to vote for this bill, your voice would be more widely recieved. Since your ignorance of the subject is duely noted, I would like to ask you to stop posting on the subject since you do not know what you say.

The Moon has a diameter of 3476 km
Mars has a diameter of 3,397 km
Mercury has a diameter of 2,440 km
Pluto has a diameter of 1,137 km

Now who's science if flawed?

Well, actually I did stop posting. But, I see you resort to the arguments of desperation (name calling)... a sign of defeat.

Were you feeling the pain of having this proposal ripped apart?
Your reasons for supporting, a "vague," we'll figure out the details later, proposal are what exactly? If someone were to show you that resolution in real life, would you buy shares? Where's the return on investment?
Look at it again, there's NOTHING between the lines!

But fear not, this proposal will probably get passed anyway by the many apathetic delegates, who read the word "space" and start drooling. So take comfort in knowing that the ignorant are with you.

A techni-poll of the Ravilan populous has determined that 86% of all Ravilian people are opposed to the new proposal offered by the UN in regards to space industry. As a result the Ravilan Chairman, Comrade Iepilei, has brought full support to the decision and voted against the proposal.

Chairman Iepilei offered these words:

"It is in the greater hopes of the working class at home and abroad, that we seek to end corporate corruption here on Earth before we expand it to territories in the far reaches of space. It is our hopes that we work on a united front, here, to invest the energy needed for this project into more beneficial technologies and advanced research to aid in the health and well-being of our peoples.

I seek that not only social-minded nations back the opposition, yet the capital-minded, as well. We must work together, bind together, and act together to bring the greater interests of humanity to light."

Comrade Ryan
Emissary of the People's Council of the United Socialist States of Ravilan

Oh my goodness.. We are so gonna laser the bejesus out of the UN. You have no idea.

It's a good thing that the DSH does not consider it possible for your nation to exist as we only recognise the usage of current day technology within reasonable limits. Therefore we would urge your civilians to hold their breath and get back to earth and it's abundance good old fashioned common sense nations.

Out of idle curiousity, why are you talking to them if they don't exist? And also, how come they can't colonise the moon if you want to do exactly the same thing? There's a bit of a double standard there.

The Moon has a diameter of 3476 km
Mars has a diameter of 3,397 km
Mercury has a diameter of 2,440 km
Pluto has a diameter of 1,137 km



Um.... excuse me if im wrong, (which im not) but the diameter of Mars is not 3397 km (which is the radius) but in fact 6794 km ( Check http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/marsfact.html :wink: ). Mercury has a diameter of 4880 km not 2440 km ( Check http://www.nineplanets.org/mercury.html :wink: ). And your still wrong on the diameter of Pluto it's 2274 km ( Check http://www.nineplanets.org/pluto.html :wink: ). Oh, and ignorance of a subject means you do not know, or you have the wrong information, about a certain subject. But lets not let your flawed information influence our own decisions. And the return of the investments is the percentage of any economic gains, that you are entitled to. Im sorry to spoil any point you may have had, but this is these are the facts.






UN Delegation of Kimchaka

Why colonize the moon? What can we do from the moon that we can't do from here? Building colonies on the moon is pointless, as we can work much more efficiently from here. A colony on the moon requires constant transportation of resources to it, as well as an incredible investment to start off with.

The same goes for exploration on other planets - sending humans there is stupid because people need food and oxygen and leave wastes. Robots only need electricity, easily made from solar panels.

Blaelbia votes a solid NO :!: , and encourages other nations to vote the same way.

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware this was HALO. For those of you who know any of the back sotry of HALO, the UNSC forms all the space, command, and marine forces for the terran race. I really think we could have thought of a better name...without infringing the copyrights for teh greatest game ever concieved by mankind.

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware this was HALO. For those of you who know any of the back sotry of HALO, the UNSC forms all the space, command, and marine forces for the terran race. I really think we could have thought of a better name...without infringing the copyrights for teh greatest game ever concieved by mankind.


Uh..... so what, it's the name of something that appears in HALO. I really dont feel affected by that. (and save your comments on the "greatest game...." for another board plz).




UN Delegation of Kimchaka

This is a general warning to all nations planning to use this proposal to enter Takian and PCDI claimed systems for exploitation purpouses. . . any and all UN starships will be seized at the outer edge of the Alpha Centuari, Arbiter, or any other star-systems claimed by any member of the PCDI, dismanteled, and occupants sent back to their home systems by the fastest possible rout. You have been warned, the PCDI will not stand for this imperialistic landgrab at our expence, and will destroy any who wish to attempt to exploit our holdings. We urge the UN to vote no, however should this pass, we will not faulter in our claim, and will not allow forgieners into our system.

The Moon has a diameter of 3476 km
Mars has a diameter of 3,397 km
Mercury has a diameter of 2,440 km
Pluto has a diameter of 1,137 km



Um.... excuse me if im wrong, (which im not) but the diameter of Mars is not 3397 km (which is the radius) but in fact 6794 km ( Check http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/marsfact.html :wink: ). Mercury has a diameter of 4880 km not 2440 km ( Check http://www.nineplanets.org/mercury.html :wink: ). And your still wrong on the diameter of Pluto it's 2274 km ( Check http://www.nineplanets.org/pluto.html :wink: ). Oh, and ignorance of a subject means you do not know, or you have the wrong information, about a certain subject. But lets not let your flawed information influence our own decisions. And the return of the investments is the percentage of any economic gains, that you are entitled to. Im sorry to spoil any point you may have had, but this is these are the facts.


Interesting... Some of my sources may have been incorrect on planetary sphere diameters. (that'z what I get for research after midnight) I did a more indepth check and will comfirm some inaccuracies in diameter, but if you check several sources on the subject, none of the diameters consistantly match. However, all sources comfirm that the Moon is bigger than Pluto, so my original statement stands correct. Which was "the moon is bigger than some planets." I'm sure when they find Planet X it will be smaller than the moon aswell....

Now, what economic gains are you talking about?
Are those the ones you may get after you spend trillions of bananas duplicating missions to the Moon that are already been done by other nations? Then spending more currency tring to eraticate any claims to lunar territory those nations have already? Also, when was it mandated that the UN support capitalistic methologies & processes such as this proposal contains?

Umm, yah, so, how can there be laws against claiming Luna (which is the moon's name, by the way, morons) and the other planets when all the planets in our solar system are regions and have nations on them? Try visting Mars and Jupiter, and all the others. Hell, there's a planet called Cssilla that's a region that's supposedly beyond the outer rim of the galaxy. I mean, if this proposal goes through, would we be forced to disband all these regions???

It seems this proposal has caught the eyes of many non-UN Nations, who now feel threatened by what appears to be the UN tring to become the sole governing body on the Moon. Several other UN type groups seem to be forming in responce to what they perceive to be an article of war for possession of the moon... I strongly suggest all UN nations who have voted yes, to change your vote to no, and those who haven't voted, go and vote NO on this resolution. :!:

Why colonize the moon? What can we do from the moon that we can't do from here? Building colonies on the moon is pointless, as we can work much more efficiently from here. A colony on the moon requires constant transportation of resources to it, as well as an incredible investment to start off with.

The same goes for exploration on other planets - sending humans there is stupid because people need food and oxygen and leave wastes. Robots only need electricity, easily made from solar panels.

Blaelbia votes a solid NO :!: , and encourages other nations to vote the same way.


By colonizing the moon we will master the craft of colonization, or at least get a chance to work out some of the kinks.

From the office of President Rix Wax of The Democratic Order of Rixtex:

I wanted to say thanks to everyone that helped pass the UN Space Consortium resolution. Special thanks to fellow Texans Pres. Big Tex and Sec. of UN Matters Dewey for constant support and encouragement, as well as Greenspoint, Richard I (and II), Dweezil, and JohntheAho for the hard work rounding up delegates and going to bat in the various Forums. Of course, there are countless other Texans who have worked behind the scenes to make this a reality by talking to their friends and voting for the proposal.

And, I believe a great big thank you should go to Free Texas and Even Greater Texas for reminding us what free, democratic debate is all about through their well-reasoned and intelligent dissent.

We should also thank our allied ambassadors for their help in communicating the particulars and securing the support of their great regions: Ambassador Mohan for The Bruce and Wysteria, Ambassador Varukers for Gray’s Harbor and The Heartland, The Ambassadorship for Grub and 10000 Islands, and The Brachycardian Embassy for Queen Pope Hope and Nasicournia. Long may our alliances thrive in a spirit of cooperation and community!

Thank you goes to Kimchaka, East Hackney, Beaumontia, Ukroatia, and others who gave a spirited defense of the proposal on the NS Forums. I could never keep up and was thankful they were there when I could not be. Special thanks to Kimchaka for starting the topic and poll.

I’m sure there are others who worked hard for its passage behind the scenes or that I’ve misplaced and are not specifically mentioned here. If so, I apologize and wish you well and a hearty thanks.

And, I need to send flowers to Dixie who has put up with a lot of time away from home and my nose buried in the PC. As always, you’re a First Class First Lady, Mme. Vice-President!

This has been a wonderful experience for me personally. I’ve met people from all over the world, both in NS and RL. I’ve learned a lot about NationStates. Most importantly, and I hope this is the most important part for everyone, I’ve had fun! NS is a blast!

Long Live NationStates! Long Live the United Nations and the Space Consortium. And, Long Live Texas and that Lone Star!

Now that UNSC has passed and is now a resolution, we must focus on the proposal 'Further than the Moon' I still need about 100 votes from UN delegates. UN members I emplore you. Tell your delegate to support this proposal.

Humbly
Calvin
President of Ukroatia