NationStates Jolt Archive

I may be a member of the United Nations, but that doesn't mean that I should be forced to go along with democracy. I am a Dictator, and I rule my people with an iron fist and I should be aloud to. I don't want a court system in my nation, I determine who should live and who should die :twisted: . So quit trying to rule my nation for me and tell me I have to turn over to democracy! The United Nations is an alliance, not a ruling body that tells nations want form of Government they should have. SO WHO IS WITH ME!!!!!!!! :twisted:

His Eminence, the Sultan of Teetoopi, agrees wholeheartedly.

The United Nations should stick to laying down a common set of guidelines for international affairs. They should lay down the rules of warfare, trade, fishing rights, environmental protection and be a body of good-natured nations united to protect weaker nations from being opressed by other nations.

The United Nations has been stepping outside of its scope with more and more alarming frequency and tends to spend more time meddling in the internal affairs of our sovereign nation than dealing with international issues.

I understand your qualms with the outreaches of the United Nations. Though my country is itself a form of democracy, I can see where you are coming from. If I am not mistaken, this trial legislation only applies to trials held involving international infractions. You don't have to implement it in YOUR country, only in situations involving international jurisdiction, fitting with the purpose of the UN. The reason for democratizing UN processes is that, unlike in your country, there is no singular ruler and a republic or democracy is the closest form of government to the UN's unique situation. I hope this helps.

The dictator ofczarFliipy thinks the same thing. See they pusehd democracy into my Iron Fist dictatorship and now it is all messed up so i have to fix it some more by just making it very bad for the people

Haha, that's cool. I have no problem with dictatorships . . . it actually is the most efficient type of government (albeit the most unfair). Democracy is the most fair, but the most inefficient.

Anyway, I just found it funny you have a dictatorship, but joined the UN, which by its nature is a haven of democracy. =)

The reason we all push democracy is that most of us are Americans . . . and it's in our nature I suppose. Sorry about that.

I should probably find it scary that people value a government more if it is efficient rather then fair, always good to know you've got the feelings of the people at heart...

Anyway, Hellooo!

Your bitching about haing democracy "rammed down your throat", hey, let ignore the fact that the U.N. is ONE BIG DEOMOCRACY. So what the Mc Freek are you doing here as a member.

Twit.

The Rep of Komokom.

Our delegate for UN affairs politely request that Entoc ceases to wave his yellow demon banner around. Its most distractiing. I could barely follow his argument. What we did manage to make out was:


So quit trying to rule my nation for me and tell me I have to turn over to democracy! The United Nations is an alliance, not a ruling body that tells nations want form of Government they should have. SO WHO IS WITH ME!!!!!!!

Before he began to jump up and down on the tables.

Our delegate points out (not I hasten to add our region's UN delegate) is dismayed that Entoc was forced to join the un and given a vote along with other UN nations. Albion is not an agressive nation but we do have a small team of soccer hooligans who call themselves the 'Firm What Will Do Your Head In Right Proper' who told us that:

You let us know what nations made you join the UN, and we'll sort em out, awight squire?

We hope that Entoc takes some comfort in the fact that should Entoc wish to escape the democratic mandate and their voting rights, they can now do so with our full protection.

There is no need to thank us. ^_^

Lubria extends our apologies to Entoc for our efforts to end suffering throughout the world, and spread the superior values of democracy, rule of law, equality, and liberty. The United Nations was set up to spread whatever values the majority agreed upon, and for the moment, they appear to be the aforementioned.

Of course, Entoc could always leave the UN, for then they would be allowed to run your country as you see fit, without interference from the UN.

Perhaps Entoc is a masochistic dictator. He hates having democracy pushed upon him, but he LOVES what he hates. The UN serves as his democracy dungeon, so to speak.

More power to him.

Perhaps Entoc is a masochistic dictator. He hates having democracy pushed upon him, but he LOVES what he hates. The UN serves as his democracy dungeon, so to speak.

More power to him.

Perhaps Entoc is a masochistic dictator. He hates having democracy pushed upon him, but he LOVES what he hates. The UN serves as his democracy dungeon, so to speak.

More power to him.


Ahhhhhhhhhhhh....the penny drops!

Just because the majority of the UN is a democrocy does not mean every nation with in should have democrocy forced upon it. Does forcing something upon some one not take away their freedom of choice? Taking away ones freedom would make the UN as a whole a hypocrite. As for the "fair trial" bill that is trying to be passed, it does not specify that it is for an international court system leaving it open to be pushed on every UN nation's court. This bill also contains many other lose ends that benifit the defendant and do nothing for the victim. The UN is to help enforce international affairs, Entoc was correct when he said "the UN is not a ruling body." An attempt to create a bill for a "fair trial" with in the international court is a great idea. However just because something has been laid on the table, that appears in the favor of democracy, does not mean every democrat needs to blindly jump at it.

Entoc was correct when he said "the UN is not a ruling body."
Sorry, but you're wrong. This UN is a ruling body, and its laws are mandatory and automatically applied. If you want to argue about what it should be, then you might have a case, but here you don't.

Please don't confuse the Nations States United Nations with that other imaginary UN people keep bringing up. It's not real. You must be sharing some kind of collective dream. It's time to wake up now.

Just because the majority of the UN is a democrocy does not mean every nation with in should have democrocy forced upon it.


Hello, my name is John Marat of Albion soviets. You've raised an interesting point there. As it happens we're not sure if most of the nations that are members of the UN are in fact democracies. Once they enter the UN they enter a democratic body, but its their statespeople, not their citizens that get the vote. Sad but true I'm afraid. Now, joining the UN isn't about having things forced on you, its a trade off, and it works a little like this: we (the nation-- or to be clearer, our citizens in our case) give up a little power in our own lands, in order to have some influence on others. Now that isn't pushing, that's a reciprocal relationship in which all parties are told where they stand and everyone consents.

I don't want to be cynical but could it be that maybe they're complaining because they don't like the proposal? We've seen it before. One minute the UN is marvelous and the next, its a tyrant over their sovreignty-- two statements that come from the same nation in the space of two resolutions. Of course neither you or Entoc would even think such a thing, its just a pattern we have seen in the past. ^_^

Thanks for listening, this was J. Marat, signing off.

Well, John Marat of Albion Soviets perhaps you should listen a little better before speaking. Our arguement is more then if we like the proposal or not. In fact as it was stated before Hells Planes thinks the proposal is a great idea, for an international court, against international crimes. Also the bill is being rushed, it is not specific enough which leaves even more loop holes open for the guilty to be set free. Another thing is that it gives the defendant complete control of the trial which in its self makes it unfair. #9 and 10 are what bother our nation the most. For an example think of your closest loved one, child,husband or wife, parent, other family, or close friend. Think of the most embarrassing, heinous crime that could be committed against them. Now the defendant has the right to allow the trial to be completely open to the public and media. Last, but certainly not least, 10. Entitles the defendant the right to waive ANY of the above rights or clauses WITHOUT REASON. Something about that just does not sound fair.

I may be a member of the United Nations, but that doesn't mean that I should be forced to go along with democracy. I am a Dictator, and I rule my people with an iron fist and I should be aloud to. I don't want a court system in my nation, I determine who should live and who should die :twisted: . So quit trying to rule my nation for me and tell me I have to turn over to democracy! The United Nations is an alliance, not a ruling body that tells nations want form of Government they should have. SO WHO IS WITH ME!!!!!!!! :twisted:

The current resolution has nothing to do with democracy. It's about individual rights. Democracy does not guarantee individual rights. Nor does individual rights mean democracy.

Democracy is not the fairest or the most correct form of government. A pure democracy is a tyranny of the majority over the rights and desires of the minority. The current UN declaration is among the worst case in point.

A benevolent Dictatorship or Father knows Best state can and usually is a much more efficient and fair government.

The united nations was created to promote the welfare of man and smooth international relations to prevent war and the horrors involved in it. Passport standardization is a proper issue because it deals with international relations. Control of elections impinges unfairly upon the sovereignty of its member nations and it will be overruled when the new proposal of the rights of member states is passed. I know that we of the Theocracy of Shirresh do not believe in jury trials as twelve uninformed people being swayed by the most charismatic lawyer is not grounds for a fair trial as much as a panel of trained Jurists with no stake in the case before it.

I do not want the United Nations trying to tell my country that we must be a democracy or ruled by the inefficient United states policies.

Democracy is not the fairest or the most correct form of government. A pure democracy is a tyranny of the majority over the rights and desires of the minority. The current UN declaration is among the worst case in point.

A benevolent Dictatorship or Father knows Best state can and usually is a much more efficient and fair government.

The united nations was created to promote the welfare of man and smooth international relations to prevent war and the horrors involved in it. Passport standardization is a proper issue because it deals with international relations. Control of elections impinges unfairly upon the sovereignty of its member nations and it will be overruled when the new proposal of the rights of member states is passed. I know that we of the Theocracy of Shirresh do not believe in jury trials as twelve uninformed people being swayed by the most charismatic lawyer is not grounds for a fair trial as much as a panel of trained Jurists with no stake in the case before it.

I do not want the United Nations trying to tell my country that we must be a democracy or ruled by the inefficient United states policies.

Democracy is not the fairest or the most correct form of government. A pure democracy is a tyranny of the majority over the rights and desires of the minority. The current UN declaration is among the worst case in point.

A benevolent Dictatorship or Father knows Best state can and usually is a much more efficient and fair government.

I don't believe a benevolent dictatorship is more efficient or more fair than a democracy. I would imagine a benevolent dictatorship would be a socialist state, meaning the economy would be very inefficient. Also, the dictator would set the policies, and wouldn't be able to be voted out of office.

Just because one person thinks they are benevolent by giving everyone a free house, that could mean to many others he is a tyrant because he charges enormous taxes on the population to pay for it.

Democracy is not the fairest or the most correct form of government. A pure democracy is a tyranny of the majority over the rights and desires of the minority.

While the majority can, and sometimes is, wrong, a democracy has the benefit of a large sample. If you take a poll of one (dictatorship) you get only one opinion. if you take a poll of say, 6 million (democracy of a starting nation) you get a myriad of opinions. A consensus is reached somewhere, and you have the will of the people. Right or wrong, it is the will of the people, a decision representative of the opinions of the citizens of a country.


A benevolent Dictatorship or Father knows Best state can and usually is a much more efficient and fair government.

This assumes the autocrat is a perfect moral authority, able to divine the correct solution to any problem. Problems in government are rarely so black and white.

The united nations was created to promote the welfare of man and smooth international relations to prevent war and the horrors involved in it. Passport standardization is a proper issue because it deals with international relations. Control of elections impinges unfairly upon the sovereignty of its member nations and it will be overruled when the new proposal of the rights of member states is passed. I know that we of the Theocracy of Shirresh do not believe in jury trials as twelve uninformed people being swayed by the most charismatic lawyer is not grounds for a fair trial as much as a panel of trained Jurists with no stake in the case before it.

Jurists trained by whom? The government? A system determined to convict and punish someone for a crime. That sort of system destroys a defendant’s rights. The goal of he defense should be to show reasonable doubt of the defendant’s guilt. The burden of proof should be on the government, because theirs is the easy task, and one often given to prejudices about who sits in the defendant’s chair. A Jury has no more stake in the outcome of case than your panel of jurists.

I do not want the United Nations trying to tell my country that we must be a democracy or ruled by the inefficient United states policies.

Then leave. The UN is a democratic governing body. Its purpose is to establish global standards of governing among its members. Your mention of efficiency so near the justice system disturbs me. Rather than maximizing convictions, a truly just system should seek to apply justice equally to all persons, and seek to avoid punishing innocent people. If I recall the teachings of the Wicca faith, one's harms come back threefold upon them.

What the UN should do, is govern INTERNATIONAL relations! Leave the domestic issues to the nations!

some of us have lost sight of the role of the UN.

the UN is not about imposing your values upon other nations. the UN is not about harmonizing all member nations to one form of government or set of ideals.

the UN is about regulating international affairs, trade, war, etc.

if your goal in joining the UN was to make all nations like yours, because it's clearly the best and most right, I think you should think again.

(general you, no one specific)

Indeed, the theocracy of Shirresh joined the United Nations to promote international relations, global harmony and peace. The procedural details regarding of the internal shirresh legal system are not the business of the United Nations any more than legalizing or prohibiting drugs, prostitution, types of marriages or internal economic matters. We are a sovereign state that has chosen to lend our monetary support in form of dues, military support in form of peacekeepers and political support in terms of representatives to the United NAtions to prevent world war and ease international relations. We have chosen to surrender a small portion of our sovereignty in matters of international relations by joining this body of equal states but none in any other matter.

As for the issue of fair trials and democracy, It is a well known fact that people vote for bread and circuses for themselves and a thousand votes by the ignorant is not as valuable as 10 votes by competant trained leader. This is the same for trials. While defendant rights are important, so are the rights of the victims and the cause of justice is too important to trust to such whim and ignorance.

A panel of three to five impartial jurists trained in the details of the law make a much better judge for a case than 12 randomly chosen people who have neither the verified intelligence to understand the evidence nor the background knowledge in the letter of the law to judge case solely on the facts presents for determining guilt. The O. J. Simpson trial in the United States was one such example where both media and lawyer charisma had more impact than the actual facts of the case.

The Citizens of Shirresh enjoy a very strong level of protections under the law and in our justice system but a charisma swayable jury is not one of them though we have been toying wiht the concept for small claims courts.