NationStates Jolt Archive

The way I see it,

THIS RESOLUTION ISN'T ABOUT PROSTITUTION.

It's about a general right to and ownership of your own body. The precedent set by this will be cited over and over again to defend, uphold, and expand the basic and fundamental principles of human liberty.

Even if you think this is trivial, even if you think disagree with prostitution prima facia, I still urge you to vote IN FAVOR of this resolution, simply because by passing this resolution we are establishing a general right to liberty, and making the world one bit safer for human rights and freedom.

The Proposal is SIN in the eyes of the Gods of Light! Those who would serve and worship the Gods of Light would do well to reject this proposal of sin and corrupting decadence. Vote "Not In Favor" on this issue and be of the Light!


High Priest Nadar Zendar
Official UN Representative of the Eternal Holy Star Empire of Istar
In the UN so the Kingpriest doesn’t have to join
The Protectorate of Istar UN Office

The way I see it,

THIS RESOLUTION ISN'T ABOUT PROSTITUTION.

It's about a general right to and ownership of your own body. The precedent set by this will be cited over and over again to defend, uphold, and expand the basic and fundamental principles of human liberty.

Even if you think this is trivial, even if you think disagree with prostitution prima facia, I still urge you to vote IN FAVOR of this resolution, simply because by passing this resolution we are establishing a general right to liberty, and making the world one bit safer for human rights and freedom.

I certainly agree with you, and it's probably the central reason why I myself support the resolution.

If you really wanted to bring morals into play, and argue about how prostitution is immoral because it devalues sexual relations between a man and wife (thereby devauing marriage), or whatever other moral angle you want to play upon, I can counter your argument with another moral...Free Will.

It's all very fine to talk about personnal freedom and the ability to choose one body's usage. But that's from an Utopic point of view. Do you honestly believe that the people nowadays present in the world are capable of apreciating that ammount of personnal freedom?

Only those that come from a freedom-less past are trully able to grasp to concept of free will, of the ability to make one's own choices. The people currently present in the most part of the modern world ARE UNABLE to understand that meaning. Therefore, they tend to abuse it.

Sure, one has every right to do what one wants with his/her body, but I believe that it is the duty of the leader of a nation to ascertain a certain degree of moral rules, not to enslave the people, but so they can be shielded from their very own ignorance.

A friend of mine told me of all the practical ends the approval of this legislation could have, like a better control over DSTs, over child-prostitution and forced prostitution. But to forget our own moral obligation as world leaders and to trade all that for the CHANCE that things will go as we want them too... the very concept is immoral in its nature.

Therefore, I vote AGAINST such a legislation.

Kuja,
The Empire of Luzinhas

There is absolutely no problem with prostitution in my mind...but taxing it? This isn't freedom, this is turning the government into the slavemaster of a man/woman's body. And who really cares if it goes into programs for the poor? Just more bureaucracy existing that will require their own payroll, thus drawing more money away from (yes, everyone say it with me now): the people.
The right to be able to use your body without Mr. Moralist looking over your shoulder is absolute, and so should be the right to be able to use it without Mr. Taxman

Well a glimmer of reason in the forums Excited Chess Players..
Every post I have read so far fails to see the real issue of this and most UN proposals...they are just an excuse to create a regulatory body and tax people...
I am with you...No more taxes to regulate people!
This proposal is poorly worded and has no provisions for implemtation.Also why does it need to be implemnted? Another tax! Enough is enough!!!
Vote NO.
Vote No on all these time wasting, poorly worded, and misleading proposals.

I'm not sure I understand your argument; nowhere in the proposal is government taxation of prostitution mandated.

Wouldn't such a tax be equivalent to (or, ahem, exactly the same as) income tax, anyway? Most sane people don't see a huge problem with income tax set at reasonable levels. While I can understand that some nations might not want to tax this field of work, I would disagree with any most any international legislation which would selectively ban income taxation.

A friend of mine told me of all the practical ends the approval of this legislation could have, like a better control over DSTs, over child-prostitution and forced prostitution. But to forget our own moral obligation as world leaders and to trade all that for the CHANCE that things will go as we want them too... the very concept is immoral in its nature.


Is it therefore better to totally rule out the possibility for someone to make a living this way? I agree STDs, child prostitution, and forced prostitution should not be allowed, but surely they can be tackled with programmes aimed at these specific issues.

There are many people who use computers to commit crimes. Should the UN therefore ban their use? No. There are task forces, and programmes set up to tackle computer crimes. The actual use of a computer is not (and should not be) a crime in itself.

There are (or should be) task forces and programmes to tackle the illegal issues involving prostitution. There are many prostitutes who enter into the profession willingly and earn a good income when they would not be able to do so in other industries (due to either lack of opportunity and/or education).

If prostitution is legalised, then why shouldn't the goverment tax it, just like any other profession. If you don't think prostitution should be taxed, then you have to consider that all forms of income should be tax free.

The moral question is, I think, not one for the government. That is what churches and religion are for. When the government makes moral judgements on behalf of the population, then the question of belief systems enters into the picture. I don't believe any government has the right to tell people what they should or should not believe. People have to know their own beliefs, and be secure enough in themselves to know that they do not have to try to speak for everyone else.

All I'll ever say about this topic is this. If it doesn't bother you having prostitutes working corners selling themselves to men and young teens, not to mention having drug dealers and pimps in your neighbor hoods then I guess this is no problem. Just don't come crying to me when there is 50X the crime there was then before and you have an AIDS epidemic in your country.

Drug dealers? Pimps? Crime? Those are all the result of keeping prostitution illegal. Legalised prostitutes won't require pimps and will be able to report the criminals who abuse or rape them. AIDS epidemic? That's what STD testing is for, if you're concerned. With legalisation comes legislation and quality control. It's just that simple.

Drug dealers? Pimps? Crime? Those are all the result of keeping prostitution illegal. Legalised prostitutes won't require pimps and will be able to report the criminals who abuse or rape them. AIDS epidemic? That's what STD testing is for, if you're concerned. With legalisation comes legislation and quality control. It's just that simple.

Which is EXACTLY why I vote FOR it. If for nothing else than to get these women off the streets. Legalised prostitution means that the taxes they pay will go towards making sure the women are kept safe and clean. Besides, keeping it illegal ain't gonna make it go away.

What is not seriously considered in this debate is that it's the right of the nations in the UN to decide for themselves whether they will tolerate the legality of such a reprehensible activity. By forcing nations to accept this that find it unnaceptable only will further divide this body and force nations with a shred of moral decency, like Giverny, to leave the UN and seek our own course in this world.

Prostitution is the cheap exploitation of those least capable of defending themselves and usually the most desperate: the orphans, drug addicts, and those forced by unscrupulous family members into a trade that degrades and denigrates them as humans. There is nothing noble or right in legalizing this evil, it only whitewashes the atrocities commited against its victims; the pimps and users of these often young and powerless voices.

A true compassionate would squash this evil and seek to draw its victims out of the mire and into healing love of a society that views them more than as a piece of meat to sate their lust with. These are human beings, not chattle. Treat them with the dignity they deserve, do not embrace the sickness that wounds them.

Sincerely,
The Republic of Giverny

Drug dealers? Pimps? Crime? Those are all the result of keeping prostitution illegal. Legalised prostitutes won't require pimps and will be able to report the criminals who abuse or rape them. AIDS epidemic? That's what STD testing is for, if you're concerned. With legalisation comes legislation and quality control. It's just that simple.

Which is EXACTLY why I vote FOR it. If for nothing else than to get these women off the streets. Legalised prostitution means that the taxes they pay will go towards making sure the women are kept safe and clean. Besides, keeping it illegal ain't gonna make it go away.

The problem is that the regulation is poorly worded. I urge everyone to vote AGAINST the proposal and support the proposal Regulation of Prostitution which protects the individual and leaves the regulation to the UN member states.

This is not about ownership of one's body. This is about dignity. Does a women have enough dignity to go out and get a decent job? All women probably know that sex is men's kryptonite, but they choose to take advantage of it. A Prostitute takes a life given pleasure, and corrupts it by means of seducing and getting paid for it. It is absurd. I have 2 words for people who prostitute themselves to make a living.

BURGER KING

Htuos Aerok

Lubria, once again, feels this is an issue best handeled by individual member states, and thus votes against yet another UN regulatory orgy.

Drug dealers? Pimps? Crime? Those are all the result of keeping prostitution illegal. Legalised prostitutes won't require pimps and will be able to report the criminals who abuse or rape them. AIDS epidemic? That's what STD testing is for, if you're concerned. With legalisation comes legislation and quality control. It's just that simple.

Which is EXACTLY why I vote FOR it. If for nothing else than to get these women off the streets. Legalised prostitution means that the taxes they pay will go towards making sure the women are kept safe and clean. Besides, keeping it illegal ain't gonna make it go away.

The problem is that the regulation is poorly worded. I urge everyone to vote AGAINST the proposal and support the proposal Regulation of Prostitution which protects the individual and leaves the regulation to the UN member states.

The Dominion of Evolutionary19 is interasted in this 'Regulation of Prostitution', with more information, this delegates vote may be swayed.

His ever Holyness,
Evolutionary19

The Dominion of Evolutionary19

This proposal is not a slippery slope to a better world, it's a slippery slope to a world dictated by one kind of moral standards. A better world in the point of view of a few. Why can't a nation decide its own fate rather than have their moral viewpoints drowned out by other nations.

Even if you did legalize it people would still work corners and cause more crime. Second testing is meaning less. Testing only says if you have it, it doesn't prevent it. In some parts of Africa they give there wives to guests, that is why there is an aids epidemic. That isn't even prostitution. I don't care because I dropped out of the UN because of this act. This should be a regional issue not a UN Law. Using your logic why don't we legalize all drugs. We could tax it and make money off it. Who cares if a few million people waste away and die? It will be more controlled. Well it ain't going to happen.

There are many good UN resolutions to be found regarding prostitution. One could have written a resolution calling for strict penalties for underage prostitution (underage being however a member state chooses to define it). However, while legalizing prostitution in all member states will probably curtail underage prostitution, why skirt the issue.

This is just another example of the UN over regulating its members. Let us focus on the issues where a clear compromise can be reached, rather than these divisive issues that only force nations further apart.

Even if you did legalize it people would still work corners and cause more crime.

So... legalising prostitution won't drop the crime rates by 20 or 30 percent, therefore we shouldn't do it? That's what I'm reading, there, but I might be wrong.

Second testing is meaning less. Testing only says if you have it, it doesn't prevent it.

See, once a prostitute tests positive, they can't prostitute anymore. You may say programs like that never work, but every time they and similar programs with different "immoral" products or services have been tried in the real world they've met this strange thing called "success."

In some parts of Africa they give there wives to guests, that is why there is an aids epidemic. That isn't even prostitution.

Well. Okay. Not sure I see the relevance.

Using your logic why don't we legalize all drugs. We could tax it and make money off it.

Yeah, sounds about right. As long as the vendors don't commit fraud, rob, or lie about the effects, or distribute inherently dangerous chemicals (all of which are already illegal), I'm not sure I see anything wrong with drugs. You evidently haven't studied enough history to see the definite parallels between the Prohibition and the War on Drugs -- both are clear fiscal failures, if nothing else.

Second, how many people are killed by prostitution every year? I'm still not really seeing much of a parallel.

This proposal is not a slippery slope to a better world, it's a slippery slope to a world dictated by one kind of moral standards. A better world in the point of view of a few. Why can't a nation decide its own fate rather than have their moral viewpoints drowned out by other nations.

Why should governments be allowed to make moral choices for their citizens? Are the people not adults? Can the people not make their own decisions? Should the government be in the business of interfering with the private affairs of consenting adults?

I am of the opinion that any illegal activity, if legalised, becomes open to minimum standards of regulation, and that in many cases this represents an improvement over an existing state of affairs.

Prostitution, where it is illegal, exists in a regulatory vacuum. No-one but a handful of resource-poor volunteer organisations cares much for the health and welfare of sex industry workers, and the whole thing is open to criminal abuse, of which protection rackets and effective slavery are just two examples.

Legalisation would pave the way for the establishment of a degree of involvement by regulatory bodies. There are, after all, public health issues involved, and the protection rackets and trading in captive employees would quickly cease. An income tax code would be a sensible progression of this policy. Treating these people like criminals, while permitting their exploitation by criminals, is not the way forward, and is not the action of a benevolent state.

I am aware that there are several Proposals being periodically submitted regarding this issue, and am approving all that I see.

Tactical Grace
UN Delegate / Minister of War / Defence Consultancy
Mercia The Next Generation (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_region/region=Mercia_The_Next_Generation)

While We believe that prostitution should be legal (in fact here in The Indigo Islands it is in fact legal.) We also believe that each country should decide how to govern itself. We do not believe that The United Nations should legislate the morality of its Nation States. Therefore we must vote against this proposal.

Indigo
Master of The Indigo Islands

It's all very fine to talk about personnal freedom and the ability to choose one body's usage. But that's from an Utopic point of view. Do you honestly believe that the people nowadays present in the world are capable of apreciating that ammount of personnal freedom?

Only those that come from a freedom-less past are trully able to grasp to concept of free will, of the ability to make one's own choices. The people currently present in the most part of the modern world ARE UNABLE to understand that meaning. Therefore, they tend to abuse it.

Sure, one has every right to do what one wants with his/her body, but I believe that it is the duty of the leader of a nation to ascertain a certain degree of moral rules, not to enslave the people, but so they can be shielded from their very own ignorance.

A friend of mine told me of all the practical ends the approval of this legislation could have, like a better control over DSTs, over child-prostitution and forced prostitution. But to forget our own moral obligation as world leaders and to trade all that for the CHANCE that things will go as we want them too... the very concept is immoral in its nature.

Therefore, I vote AGAINST such a legislation.

Kuja,
The Empire of Luzinhas

If, as you say, few people are fit to govern themselves, then it follows that even fewer are fit to govern others. This is the foundational principle of anarchy. How can you be sure that, if people are stupid as you say, the government won't be filled with stupid people? That's how it's worked out.

The right to be able to use your body without Mr. Moralist looking over your shoulder is absolute, and so should be the right to be able to use it without Mr. Taxman

The laws in most nationstates say that any revinue gained from working is taxable. Why should prostitution be any different? If your job is as a prostitute and that's how you make your living, why should the government NOT tax you when they tax doctors and lawyers.

This proposal dosn't regulate ANYBODY. It simply allows people to use prostitution as a legal means to support themselvs. It dosn't say nations MUST tax, it says they COULD tax. I don't see why a nation wouldn't if they generally tax people based on income.

Second testing is meaning less. Testing only says if you have it, it doesn't prevent it.

See, once a prostitute tests positive, they can't prostitute anymore. You may say programs like that never work, but every time they and similar programs with different "immoral" products or services have been tried in the real world they've met this strange thing called "success."





Second, how many people are killed by prostitution every year? I'm still not really seeing much of a parallel.

quote]


You see what about the people who have STD's and are using these services. To be sure there would be no breakout of this you would have to test the prostitutes after every session. People are killed from the affects of prostitution, like STDS. I feel that they shouldn't legalize it just not enforce it. If you legalize it, it is like promoting it to people who normally wouldn't. I don't care about this issue anymore because I dropped out of the UN. These resolutions should be made by the individual states.

A true compassionate would squash this evil

There's nothing "compassionate" about violating individual rights, dumbfuck.