NationStates Jolt Archive

Fellow glowingly great nations, read our proposal, have a little think, and give it a vote. Constructive debates are good too!! Though i'm off down t'pub and suggest we have it over a pint....

VAT proposal

Many nations are suffering from an epidemic of overweight citizens. This growth in the numbers of generously proportioned folks is placing great strains on nations health care systems due to the accompanying increase in weight related disease.

It is proposed that citizens need an incentive on top of will-power alone. Therefore we motion the idea of VAT or Volume Added Tax, in that each nation shall tax citizens with a girth deemed to be unhealthy, on a scale proportionate to their proportions.

This shall: Increase revenue for healthcare to treat weight related disease.
Back up the weight reducing aims of citizens.
Reduce the money for snacks for rotund folks.

We put it to you that this proposal is a rare example of a self financing (even fund raising) scheme which is in the interests of the health of the worlds population.

I don't know, Bahgum. It sounds like just another ineffiecient transfer tax to me. Translate fat into currency, currency into medical procedures, medical procedures into weight reduction. That's three major areas for typical government inefficency and graft.

Why not just cut out the middleman and transfer the fat itself? Every nation has its proportion of Callista Flockhart wannabes, and poorer nations have a surplus. Why not just use liposuction techniques to make a direct transfer, and eliminate the bottleneck of regulatory bodies?

Hmm, this bears thinking regardless of the success of this proposal.

Phineas T. Masonjar, MD
Director, FrisbeeGeneral MedSurg, Frisbeeteria

This is a very retarded idea.

(and yes, that childish, immature insult was indeed warranted)

OOC:

Our doctor is also a classroom professor in endocrinology. He told us of a case of his which he had written up for a journal.

A short lady of mediterranean background gained weight drastically when her husband died. She weighed 480 pounds.

To save her life, the doctor put her in a locked room in a locked hospital ward, where she was fed a strict diet of 800 calories per day.

After the first week, she lost some water weight.

Over the next four months she lost nothing, not an ounce.

with the locks and security she could not be getting extra food. The doctor's conclusion was that her body was "extremely efficient". It could run itself on very low calorie intake. Anything over that got turned into fat. So what would be a normal maintenance diet for you and me would make her gain weight.

Moral: Weight can be a metabolic disorder. Some people cannot do anything about their obesity. It is not immorality or lack of willpower. To ridicule these people is cruel and insensitive.

Moral: Weight can be a metabolic disorder. Some people cannot do anything about their obesity. It is not immorality or lack of willpower. To ridicule these people is cruel and insensitive.

Exactly. Plus, it isn't government's place to punish people for harming themselves. Advise them of the importance of healthy eating, exercise, fine. But don't punish people for it.

Fellow glowingly great nations, read our proposal, have a little think, and give it a vote. Constructive debates are good too!! Though i'm off down t'pub and suggest we have it over a pint....

VAT proposal

Many nations are suffering from an epidemic of overweight citizens. This growth in the numbers of generously proportioned folks is placing great strains on nations health care systems due to the accompanying increase in weight related disease.

It is proposed that citizens need an incentive on top of will-power alone. Therefore we motion the idea of VAT or Volume Added Tax, in that each nation shall tax citizens with a girth deemed to be unhealthy, on a scale proportionate to their proportions.

This shall: Increase revenue for healthcare to treat weight related disease.
Back up the weight reducing aims of citizens.
Reduce the money for snacks for rotund folks.

We put it to you that this proposal is a rare example of a self financing (even fund raising) scheme which is in the interests of the health of the worlds population.



I don't support it as it is discriminating against overweight people, which is unfair, so no. :wink:

Smokers pay higher taxes for cigarettes, drinkers pay higher taxes for alcohol, in many places polluters pay higher taxes for polluting. These are all llifestyle taxes, and one of the main arguments that these taxes are accepted are that they help pay for repairing the consequences, i.e. healthcare for smokers and drinkers, cleaning for pollution. The other main reason for these taxes is to discourage folks from leading such lifestyles.
So, it is widely recognised that being very overweight is not good for your health, has associated healthcare cost and is generallly discouraged. Such a tax is in line with the above examples. Yes, you may feel uncomfortable about it, but obesity is a major health problem, which in the majority of cases is brought on by lifestyle choice. If you can tax other lifestyle choices why not this one? Or shall we go back to calling Bahgum retarded, childish, discrimatory etc for having the nerve to face down a major health issue?

Smokers pay higher taxes for cigarettes, drinkers pay higher taxes for alcohol, in many places polluters pay higher taxes for polluting. These are all llifestyle taxes, and one of the main arguments that these taxes are accepted are that they help pay for repairing the consequences, i.e. healthcare for smokers and drinkers, cleaning for pollution. The other main reason for these taxes is to discourage folks from leading such lifestyles.
So, it is widely recognised that being very overweight is not good for your health, has associated healthcare cost and is generallly discouraged. Such a tax is in line with the above examples. Yes, you may feel uncomfortable about it, but obesity is a major health problem, which in the majority of cases is brought on by lifestyle choice. If you can tax other lifestyle choices why not this one? Or shall we go back to calling Bahgum retarded, childish, discrimatory etc for having the nerve to face down a major health issue?

Your argument doesn't work. The equivalent of the tax examples you quote would be a tax on unhealthy food, which I might accept. First, your proposal isn't very specific about what kind of tax, but it seems to imply something added to income tax. So what I'm assuming you mean is that part of your income tax rate would be determined by height-weight index or something. That would be like raising your income tax rate based on how many cigarettes you smoked per day, which is not what is done in RL.

EDIT: I mean when you say "Smokers pay higher taxes for cigarettes", that's not true, what actually happens is that anyone buying cigarettes - whether it's their first pack or if they've smoked 40/day for 30 years - pays an equal tax on the transaction.

Myopia, thanks for pointing that out, I agree that the comparison would differ in practice, however, the principle is still the same. Taxes on lifestyle choices are made by governments to discourage those seen to be unhealthy etc. maybe the proposal should be re-worded to be more specific on how to implement (though I didn't want to make it too wordy).
Any nations wish to debate on the obvious moral issue here? i.e. do you do little to tackle this problem so as not to offend (but accept the early death of some of your populace through weight related disease)... or do you offend a few citizens in order to have them avoid ill-health and early graves?