NationStates Jolt Archive

The following Proposal has been submitted for your approval. This proposal is the result of a collaboration (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2616151) by

Frisbeeteria, Heian-Edo, Greenspoint, Monocia, Heru Ur, Nibbleton, Lillibit, Oppressed Possums and New Eriu

using an Open Forum model we sincerely hope other UN members will adopt.

Please search the UN Proposals Library using the word Duties to register your Approval. We thank you in advance for your careful consideration of this proposal.


Declaration on Rights and Duties of UN States:

Purpose:
UN membership in NationStates is a choice, not a requirement. Those of us who chose to participate have certain responsibilities to ourselves, each other, and the entire NationStates community. At the same time, we as NationStates have certain rights and responsibilities that we do not willingly give up when we chose to join the UN. It is therefore vital to clearly delineate what constitutes sovereign law versus UN sanctioned international law. This document will attempt to enumerate those most basic of rights, as they exist within and as defined by the United Nations of NationStates.

Section I: The Principle of National Sovereignty:

Article 1
§ Every UN Member State has the right to independence and hence to exercise freely, without dictation by any other NationState, all its legal powers, including the choice of its own form of government.
Article 2
§ Every UN Member State has the right to exercise jurisdiction over its territory and over all persons and things therein, subject to the immunities recognized by international law.
Article 3
§ Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from unrequested intervention in the internal or external economic, political, religious, and social affairs of any other NationState, subject to the immunities recognized by international law.

Section II: The Art of War:

Article 4
§ Every UN Member State has the right of individual or collective self-defense against armed attack.
Article 5
§ War in the World of NationStates is defined as a consensual act between two or more NationStates. Any and all NationStates may, at their discretion, respond to declarations of war on NationStates who wish to avoid war. The recommended method is a barrage of I.G.N.O.R.E. Cannons.
Article 6
§ Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from fomenting civil strife in the territory of another NationState, and to prevent the organization within its territory of activities calculated to foment such civil strife.
Article 7
§ Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from giving assistance to any NationState which is acting in violation of Article 5, or against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.
Article 8
§ Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from recognizing any territorial acquisition by another NationState acting in violation of Article 5.

Section III: The Role of the United Nations:

Article 9
§ Every UN Member State has the right to equality in law with every other UN Member State.
Article 10
§ Every UN Member State has the duty to carry out in good faith its obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law, and it may not invoke provisions in its constitution or its laws as an excuse for failure to perform this duty.
Article 11
§ Every UN Member State has the duty to conduct its relations with other NationStates in accordance with international law and with the principle that the sovereignty of each UN Member State is subject to the supremacy of international law.

This proposal has been submitted using the following criteria:

A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.

Category: Political Stability
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Frisbeeteria

Voting Ends: Sun Jan 25 2004

The Rogue Nation of Greenspoint supports this proposal and has asked their UN Delegate to endorse it.

James Moehlman
Asst. Manager ico U.N. Affairs

The Confederacy of Caligatio fully supports this resolution and will contact its regions' UN delegate concerning the matter.

On a more personal note, I would like to compliment Frisbeeteria and his associates on a well-drafted resolution, one of few recently.

Todd M., President of the Confederacy of Caligatio

As the Delagate for the Region/Nations of the Federated Suns....I'll Endorse it..

I thank those nations who have either Approved this or recommended that their Regional Deleagte approve it, but we've got a long way to go:

Approvals: 15 (Frisbeeteria, Boudica, Bweezystan, Dananias, Stumperlowe, Quesovanianovia, Park Slope-estan, General Mike, Thrace-Tailteann, Jontes, NewTexas, Sirkkoninia, Tactical Grace, Mikes Hope, Equility)

Thank you for your consideration.

Okay, i support it,

I received a Telegram from a Regional Delegate, expressing his doubts. I'd like to reprint my answer:
Sorry, but I'm opposed to national sovereignty proposals. They would take a lot of fun and intrigue out of the UN, whose purpose is precisely to be a game of national sovereignty limitations, if passed.
I appreciate your statement, and understand fully if you chose to not support it. Still, as a United Nations Regional Delegate, I'd still like your approval so that the rest of your Region (and others) could have the opportunity to vote. I've taken the position that I'll approve well-written proposals even if I personally oppose them, as the approval process isn't voting on the merits of the bill, but rather of the merits of *debating* the bill.

I'd like to think that I left plenty of room for precisely the sorts of intrigues that make NS fun, primarily in Articles 2, 3, and 10. While this is an adaptation of a document from the RL UN, I tried very hard to leave it open-ended. The statements on War provide ample opportunity for role-play scenarios, and "The Role of the United Nations" section makes it quite clear that the rules of the UN do indeed apply to all members. This is nothing new - the NationStates UN has a mandatory effect on its member nations.

It's my opinion that this proposal isn't adding anything inhibiting to the world of NationStates. It is designed to state in clear and unambiguous language where the roles of the State and the Role of the UN intertwine. It's my hope that when passed it can be used as a cornerstone for other nations to build new proposals upon. It's also my hope that you'll help me in this quest.

Sincerely,
M.J. Donovan, CEO, Frisbeeteria

We support this and have recommended it to our regional delegate, Our Earth.

As we read this proposal it does allow leeway for many proposals, but within limits.

The Most Serene Republic of Lubria fully supports this proposal, and have asked our delegate to approve it. Our delegate has declined to approve the proposal, in the interests of remaining politically neutral, but will support the proposal if it comes to a vote.

Once again, we would like to congratulate Frisbeeteria on a most well drafted piece of legislation, and hope in the future that other Nation States will follow your example and bring their drafts before open debate before submitting them.

Peter Javanis
Special Envoy
Office of the Lubrian Prime Minister

The Most Serene Republic of Lubria fully supports this proposal, and have asked our delegate to approve it. Our delegate has declined to approve the proposal, in the interests of remaining politically neutral, but will support the proposal if it comes to a vote.

With all due respect to Lubria's Regional UN Delegate, we think he's got it a bit backward. The Delegate is willing to support the proposal if it comes to a vote, but in the interest of neutrality will not endorse it towards a quorum?

The Rogue Nation of Greenspoint thinks that neutrality would be better served by bringing the proposal to the floor for a vote of the entire U.N. body of members and abstaining at that time. To say you'd vote for a proposal if it reached the floor but won't help it get out onto that floor is contradictory.

James Moehlman
Asst. Manager ico U.N. Affairs

Lubria agrees in some respects, but understands that we are not the only nation within our region. Our delegate has always taken the time to respond to all our telegrams, in detail often, and we thank him for that. They are a very thoughtful people, who do not enter into anything too lightly.

We feel that the changes made since this proposal was last brought to our attention have made it a lot more acceptable, and we now agree with all of the stated articles as they stand. The proposal has our endorsement.

Yngwie Malmsteen,
Nibbleton UN Ambassador

:?: Yngwie Malmsteen, :?:
Nibbleton UN Ambassador
:P

This proposal excells any of the ones that have ever been writen for the UN, and all the ideas it proposes are very much of our people's liking. The government of Bariloche approves of this and I will ask for the UN Delegate to support it.

Pablo B.
President
Community of Bariloche

We of the Portectorate fo the Deathseekers wholeheartedly support this endeavor. WE hope this endeavor brings honor to all the nations of the UN. May honor guide us all.

-High Shogun Rayeth
Leader of the Protectorate of the Deathseekrs

The Government of Inner Qwghlm has instructed me to offer our fullest support to this exemplary proposal.

Sadly the Region in which Inner Qwghlm is currently located lacks a UN Delegate at present. If and when one is elected Inner Qwghlm will lobby strongly for support of this proposal.

Hon Ms. Sopia Pthgggrk
Inner Qwghlm Deputy-Ambassador to the UN

You already have my endorsement but I wanted this bump not to be obvious.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Back New World

I find it a bit disturbing that no one has posted anything negative about this proposal, yet the approvals are still hovering in the 30s.

Proposals are being blasted left and right for being poorly worded, vague, and impossible to implement. This proposal is none of those things. If you are serious about wanting qualtiy proposals, please approve this one.

I find it a bit disturbing that no one has posted anything negative about this proposal, yet the approvals are still hovering in the 30s.

Proposals are being blasted left and right for being poorly worded, vague, and impossible to implement. This proposal is none of those things. If you are serious about wanting qualtiy proposals, please approve this one.


Well you should send out telegrams to delegates who have supported other sensible resolutions and then...more votes, no resolutions ever got to quorum without some work by the person who made it. Except the first few.... :P

Well you should send out telegrams to delegates who have supported other sensible resolutions and then...more votes, no resolutions ever got to quorum without some work by the person who made it. Except the first few.... :P
Matthuis, I've been in the trenches already. I'm not just waiting for it to pass. Telegrams, yes, but I have been very careful with whom I sent telegrams to.

I started with Qaaolchoura's stickied list of who is willing to receive telegrams. That list is out of date - some of them no longer exist, others haven/t logged on in weeks. Some of these folks probably log on during the week, so having approvals end on Sunday was likely not the best strategy.

I wandered around the larger and better known regions, and read the World Factbook entries and regional message boards, looking only regions where both of them demonstrated an active interest in UN affairs. I was surprised by how high that number was. The delegates of those regions got a telegram.

I dug through the UN forum and found people who had complained about the quality of proposals, or who were interested in promoting issues of national sovereignty. They got a telegram asking for either approval or requesting a telegram be sent to their UNRD urging support.

I think I've beaten the bushes ethically, responsibly, and with a great deal of care. I had no desire to be one of those "pleeze endors my pruposl" spammers, so I'm not going to dig through the 12,500 regions and be a pest about it. This proposal stands on its own, and I just wish more Regional Delegates were online in time to make it fly.

We of the Grand Atoll will support your proposal, but we ask in the spirit of friendship that you make one small change. It is a change only in labelling, and does not affect the content of your proposal, which is otherwise very well designed.

Your proposal speaks of "The Art of War." This presupposes that war can be a work of art; however, war is killing people and destroying things. There is nothing artistic about killing people and destroying things. We of the Grand Atoll suggest "The Rules of War." This is also inelegant, because we are not a warlike people; but the intent is to remind our sister nations that even in something as horrific as war, no nation is above the law, no nation may violate the Rules, if you will.

Again, with this small change, we will happily support your proposal.

This presupposes that war can be a work of art; however, war is killing people and destroying things.
art 1. a fine skill that has resulted from natural ability, practice, or study.

Actually, Grand Atoll, the title The Art Of War was very deliberately chosen as a tribute to the Chinese philospher/general, Sun Tzu (http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm). He was not describing war as being artistic, but rather was defining the fact that the rules of war are not in fact strictly codified, but rather must be interpreted according to the situation. Thus, War is Art rather than Science. If you read the book carefully, you will see that the most effective Art of War is choosing when not to fight.

I highly encourage anyone contemplating war in the NationStates to seek out and read this small volume. There are numerous online copies available as hypertext, and inexpensive copies may be found at almost any bookstore. Look in the Philosophy section.

Given that the Art of War entirely applies to war as fought in the NationStates, I'm afraid I'll have to decline this change.

I would never sacrifice freedom for law and order!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pìg!ome, g||xòfùme.-I am a human, not a tool.
No Mods, No Masters!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

There are some resonable limits to freedom.

*One should not be able to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater.
*One should not have the freedom to kill anyone.

Just a few examples. I'm sure any resonable nationstate can agree there must be limits to freedom in order for any semblence of lawfulness to exist.

This presupposes that war can be a work of art; however, war is killing people and destroying things.
art 1. a fine skill that has resulted from natural ability, practice, or study.

Actually, Grand Atoll, the title The Art Of War was very deliberately chosen as a tribute to the Chinese philospher/general, Sun Tzu (http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm). He was not describing war as being artistic, but rather was defining the fact that the rules of war are not in fact strictly codified, but rather must be interpreted according to the situation. Thus, War is Art rather than Science. If you read the book carefully, you will see that the most effective Art of War is choosing when not to fight.

I highly encourage anyone contemplating war in the NationStates to seek out and read this small volume. There are numerous online copies available as hypertext, and inexpensive copies may be found at almost any bookstore. Look in the Philosophy section.

Given that the Art of War entirely applies to war as fought in the NationStates, I'm afraid I'll have to decline this change.

We of the Grand Atoll see nothing fine about being skilled in killing people and destroying things. We are, of course, aware of the writings of Sun Tzu. We are also aware of the millions of people in this world who, having lost spouses and children to war, would be saddened to find that the UN would call an art the activity which bereaved them of loved ones.

Perhaps the millions suffering as a result of the disasterous Hoobang-Deanery war, including the 1.5 to 1.8 million refugees the International Relief Agency estimates this war has caused, could provide input on whether our UN should call war an art, whether it is a fine skill to study and practice the radioactive burning of children.

*pauses to dry tears*

My most humble apologies. While we of the Grand Atoll are saddened that you would be unwilling to make a small change that alters none of the substance of your work, while enhancing the spirit with which the people of the world receive it, we do thank you for your consideration of our words.

I would never sacrifice freedom for law and order!
Had The Anarchist Communes of Letila had the courage of their convictions and stayed out of the UN, we might have applauded their strength.

However, since they are in fact a member of this august body and have delivered their citizenry over to the dictates of international law, we scoff at their hypocrisy.
*pauses to dry tears*
While we appreciate the sentiemt of the overly-emotional delegate from Grand Atoll over a minor matter of semantics, we would also point out that this late in the deliberations, there are no changes possible to the resolution. As this resolution was discussed in open committee for several weeks prior to its submission, we feel the time for changes have passed in any case.

MJ Donovan, CEO, Frisbeeteria

Rights and Duties of UN States, despite an excellent turnout and very few negative comments, nonetheless did not make it to quorum.

Frisbeeteria feels that this is important legislation, and once again puts out the call for comments and corrections. The proposal was designed collaboritively and we made a number of valuable changes, but obviously not everyone's thoughts could be included.

We request that any UN Regional Delegate who read this proposal, but chose not to approve it, take a moment to explain what they did not like about it. We value the critical process, and think that proposal was far superior for having been vetted in the UN forum prior to submission. Any additional comments AND criticisms would be considered and responded to.

Many thanks to the nations who were willing to stand up with us in the approval process. You names have been noted and recorded, and Frisbeeteria will call on your continuing support when this issue is re-submitted. It was a valiant effort. Thank you.

MJ Donovan, CEO, Frisbeeteria.
----------------------------------------

[OOC] While there may have been something in the content of this proposal that prevented approvals, I think that frustration with server lag kept most delegates from taking the time to sweep through the list. It didn't make the cut, not because it was bad, but because it wasn't seen.

It also never made it any further than page 4. If anyone has a suggestion of when to submit a proposal so that it eventually ends up on page 1, I would greatly appreciate a telegram.