NationStates Jolt Archive

While we realize that abortion is a very controversial topic, i would just like to get a preliminary feel for how the UN stands on it.
Thank You.

I wish you good luck on this because too many people will try and stand in your way. I already pushed this issue recently and only a mere 31 nations gave me approval for it. If you wish to, don't try and appease anyone, it won't work.

I believe in the right to abortion, however, you'll meet far too many ostacles because many people who are at the UN overlook most proposals, only opting for ones that are silly, while others will send you t-grams complaining about your proposal because it goes against their views.

Also, if you want to, I can give you my revised proposal to tinker with, since I'm leaving the UN if my 10th proposal flops. I'm tired of these ludicrous resolutions coming into power. Only the euthanasia one suits my nation's needs.



INTRODUCTION

Whereas many anti-abortionists preach the right to life for the unborn fetus, who, in the mother's womb may or may not pose a risk to her well being, in turn support the death penalty is a direct case of hypocrisy;

Whereas many pro-abortionists preach the right for the woman to choose whether or not they will keep the fetus based on mitigating and aggrevating circumstances, in turn rally in throes for the banning of the barbaric capital and corporal punishment;


SUMMARY

As a happy medium we hereby propose that, if a government is pro-life, then, they cannot have the death penalty if they don't allow abortion. Similarly, if you allow abortion, you can allow the death penalty.

Further, as an extension on this proposal, we hereby recommend that abortion not be outlawed, because it can affect a woman's health, if the existance of the unborn child in her womb will pose complication, leading and not limited to her death.

Also, in preventing further conflict, if the government should choose not to allow abortion, which includes not allowing the death penalty, an agency should be set up, to assist those women who need it. To judge their case for an abortion. Only if they receive a certificate of approval, shall they be permitted to abort the pregnancy.

If they are healthy and able to properly care for the child, or someone else is willing to, the women, unless her health is at severely at risk, shall be denied the right to abortion in the favour of life.


ARTILCES

1 - Under no circumstance, if abortion is legal, should it be done unless the woman's case passes the Analytical Process, a method of determination with the following items to be considered:
i) The nature of her health, whether threatened or not
ii) Her needs as a human; if she can care for herself or not. If she can't care for herself, how can she care for another?
iii) The cause of her pregnancy. If it was because of lack of awareness, then her case is denied, unless her life is endangered, as is stated in the first item. If she, however, was intoxicated (drunk or drugged), raped or the victim of incest.

2 - The exception to the above rule is as follows: if the girl is underage the universal age for the country, then the fate of the unborn child rests on the parents. They still take it before the Case Analysts in order to get a certificate of approval.

3 - In order to legally receive an abortion, a doctor's note, in order to get the morning after pill, must be issued, or a certificate to the doctor who will be performing the abortion, stating that the woman, or girl, has permission for the process.

4 - If, the case above is not legal, and the abortion is performed, the parties involved will be charged as follows: the woman, as she is consenting to this, will receive, depending on at what stage of her pregnancy, the abortion is performed at, anywhere from a hefty fine to a five year jail sentence in a minimum security prision at the state level. The doctor, for willfully breaking the law and having knowledge of it, will have his or her medical license revoked and receive a two year probation period before they can go back for retraining to get recertified.

5 - If, your government has chosen to forego abortion, then any death sentences are null and consideration a violation of the UN. Because both involve the removal of life, having a death sentence and banning abortion is a sign of hypocrisy, if you wish to keep your death sentence, then an abortion program must be set-up.

6 - If in your region, non-UN Members give the option, then, if these women wish for an abortion, they must seek out a doctor in that country that will. However, they will face a fine when they return home for the act of killing. There is only a fine, but hefty because the illegal abortion didn't occur on national soil. Further, the country that does allow it, must take responsibilty for this and provide documentation supporting the abortion, if she was found to be pregnant while out of the country. If the reasons for her abortion are legal under the articles of this resolution, then the fine shall be light. Inclusive in this; if in the future she seeks an abortion in her native country, she will be denied the treatment because she has violated the laws of her country, unless it poses a severe risk to her life; the risk in this case is death, and only if she can prove her case with signicant medical evidence.

7 - Abortion shall be issued in all countries, under only this circumstance, and that is, if the woman or girl has been in an accident and is pregnant, with her life at risk because of internal bleeding or other injuries that affect both hers and the unborn child's well-being. If she is unable to be saved without removing the child from her womb, the child shall be removed and put on life support in order to save both. This is the only time after the first two months of the pregnancy wherein, the child is removed from her womb before she goes into labour. The only other exception, is medical reasons, such as she develops a kind of cancer and the treatment would endanger the life of the child, and the child can survive outside of the mother's womb.

8 - If legalised in the country, or, the presence of the death penalty exists and abortion is merely there for those women who really need it as a last resort, then, the abortion, if it must be done, is to be done within the first two months. The third month is permitted under only severe circumstances.

9 - The so-called 'morning after pill' can only be taken within the first week and with doctor's permission. If a women has sexual intercourse and believes that the protection didn't work, as preventative medicine, she can seek out her doctor, get the prescription and take the pill. The doctor can only give her the prescription if:
i) she requests it
ii) passes a test that proves that the fetus hasn't had a chance to begin to develop
iii) it has been 7 days or less

10 - Miscarriages, as a cause of nature, shall not be considered a violation of any law. The women should receive medical care, of course, but, the miscarriage shall not be treated as a violation of any law because she had no physical control over it.

You left out a very important option "Do not legalize abortion". If you want to get a true feel for the UN community you must ask questions that are not loaded. For some of us you did not give an option that we can find suitable. I understand that you are probably just trying to find what will get the most votes, but you are not really asking about the UN's true opinion.

thank you, Kryozerkia. that's really too bad about all those resolutions that flopped. you might be right to leave the un though; so far a lot of the people here seem really conservative and dictatorial. also poor losers.

thank you, Kryozerkia. that's really too bad about all those resolutions that flopped. you might be right to leave the un though; so far a lot of the people here seem really conservative and dictatorial. also poor losers.

You say that opposing abortion but supporting the death penalty is hypocritical, but I say the opposite is true. Everyone that I know that is pro-choice, is against the death penalty.

I am against killing unborn babies, but am in favor of executing murderers. How is that hypocritical? The babies have done nothing and the criminals lost their right to life the moment they took someone else's life. However, most pro-choice people say we can kill innocent babies, but the violent criminals should live. How is that right???

I am against abortion.

You left out a very important option "Do not legalize abortion". If you want to get a true feel for the UN community you must ask questions that are not loaded. For some of us you did not give an option that we can find suitable. I understand that you are probably just trying to find what will get the most votes, but you are not really asking about the UN's true opinion.

actually, i was just trying to see how the resolution should be worded. i would only need to include the option of "none of the above" if i wanted to see of it would pass, which isn't important right now.

You left out a very important option "Do not legalize abortion". If you want to get a true feel for the UN community you must ask questions that are not loaded. For some of us you did not give an option that we can find suitable. I understand that you are probably just trying to find what will get the most votes, but you are not really asking about the UN's true opinion.

actually, i was just trying to see how the resolution should be worded. i would only need to include the option of "none of the above" if i wanted to see of it would pass, which isn't important right now.

I'd say legalize Abortion if the mothers life is in danger, or a pregnancy from rape.

Abortion should never be legal in any circumstance. Regardless of how the child was conceived, it is still a human being and a fellow man.

There are plenty of topics where the issue of abortion is discussed. It doesn't really matter HERE whether you agree or disagree with the concept of abortion. This is the UN Forum, and we vote here as to whether the UN should pass legislation concerning the issue.

My opinions on abortion are irrelevant. Your opinions on abortion are irrelevant. My country's opinion is that this issue is none of the business of the UN. No matter how the proposal is phrased, Frisbeeteria will vote AGAINST any proposal that seeks to regulate abortion on an international level.

Even if the Woman was raped and her life is in danger from the birth?

The central part of thsi contreversy in my view at which point can the fetus be considered to be developed enough to be human?

On rape...

If a someone left a baby on your doorstep, you wouldn't kill it just because you didn't ask for it, would you?

On the mother's safety...

We used to commend people who risked their own lives to save others. Same situation. And remember, legal abortion is the fifth leading cause of maternal death. And those women who have had abortions double their risk of getting almost all sexually related cancers and disorders.

On viable life...

We have another child with us as soon is the sperm and the egg come together. When I was only one cell I had all the information I need to grow to what I am now. I took time to grow to my current stature, and I'm still growing.

No, I would take it to an orphanage or something. That day. There is a difference between a drive to an orphanage, and nine months pregnancy + the actual birth.

Even if the Woman was raped and her life is in danger from the birth?

Yeah, how can you argue with those conditions. Generally Hoydonia takes a dim view on abortion however there are certain tragedies that go even beyond the pale of abortion.

wtf is a trimester? Well neway i think its a good idea to abort the child if : the mothers life is indanger, if the child would be born legally a jew, if the child would be born a crack baby, if it would be mentally retarded, and if the mother was raped or had sex to early.

with modern technology, at least in my nation, the "mother's-life-in-danger" scenario is small enough to hardly be worth of consideration, as opposed to the much higher rate of death due to botched abortions...

and i agree with whoever (frisbeeteria i think) said that this is not a UN issue...

does it occur to you that when you pass a resolution that was previously a nation-level decision, the only change that will take place will be in the nations that had outlawed it before. so those who like abortion (so to speak) already have it, and will therefore use the UN to force it on those who don't?

We here at the Holy Empire of The Rose Crown think that abortion should be legal on certain terms.

We believe that Abortion should be allowed when either the mother's life is in danger, the child will in herit an STD, the parents are unable to care for the child or if the pregnancy occured in result of a rape and the mother didn't want the child then she should have the right to terminate the pregnancy.

We believe that as soon as the feutus has developed enough that it can be called human the option of abortion should no longer be valid as it is no longer killing a feutus but a person, a life.

But despite my views on abortion or any-one elses views, I will not support a bill that wishes to force this issue, which has nothing to do with the UN, onto other countries.
If a bill like this is passed you'll have many more nations resiging from the UN just like they did after the Euthanasia bill was passed. These issues are not the UN's business or problem they are each and every nations. And it is the nations choice to decide whether or not they are to be legalized not the UNs.

The Rose Crown

I would simply prevent abortioon from being used as a form of birh control.

This would allow aborions for any other reasons, such as health, or in cases of rape and incest, because those would not be ordinary cases of birth control.

THis one simple measure would eliminate roughly 85% of abortions.

There is no relation between the Abortion and Death Penalty, and any attempt to mix the two in a resolution is doomed to fail.

The Death Penalty is a punishment a society decides (or not) to impose on those (CONSCIENT ADULTS) that inflict it a serious damage, by breaking it's most basic rules.
Jaua is not pro-Death Penalty, based on the assumption that at any time in any given judicial system there may be a mistake, and therefore we consider the risk of executing an innocent far more relevant than the cost of keepin alive (for instance, throuh Life Sentences) an irrecoverable monster.

The Abortion is something no one would choose to do, and less of all the women that do it.
But our view is that no one should be punished for doing it (based on scientifical opinions, a 3-4 month limit should be established).
A fetus is not a conscient, independent person (YET). A fetus is the result of a pregnancy, which may or not be decided by both parents, desired and with a prospect of a meaningful and happy life.
If you consider a 14-year old child with a mental handicap that gets raped by their colleagues in a school, and the result is a preagnency, I doubt there are many people alive and morally sound that wouldn't recognize this child the right to perform an abortion.

The idea that all life derives from God and therefore no abortion should be allowed also implies that every human action is inspired by God, and therefore there are no standards for moral behaviour, whish is contradictory in terms with the first assumption.

Therefore, I don't see how the complete forbidness of abortion can be sustained in any rational discussion.

[quote="The Great Norse Horse"]On rape...

If a someone left a baby on your doorstep, you wouldn't kill it just because you didn't ask for it, would you?

1 - Nobody is talking about a "baby", we are talking about a fetus, which has no chance of independent survival outside the mother's body.

2 - If you were a 14-year old girl, and you were brutally raped (is there any other way?) by an HIV-positive monster, resulting in an HIV-positive pregnancy, what would you feel about this matter?

As Catholic Europe has stated before, we will only allow abortion in two cases. In all other cases abortion is banned.

As Catholic Europe has stated before, we will only allow abortion in two cases. In all other cases abortion is banned.

Although we discourage abortion, we are careful to provide full information, counseling, and medical care.

We also facilitate adoption of hard-to-place children.

wtf is a trimester? Well neway i think its a good idea to abort the child if : the mothers life is indanger, if the child would be born legally a jew, if the child would be born a crack baby, if it would be mentally retarded, and if the mother was raped or had sex to early.

a trimester is three months.
what was that part about being born a jew supposed to mean? please don't get your anti-semitic views involved here.

Although we discourage abortion, we are careful to provide full information, counseling, and medical care.

We also facilitate adoption of hard-to-place children.

So, basically, you do allow abortion.

I voted other: I do not believe that abortion should be legal

DO NOT LEGALIZE ABORTION!!