NationStates Jolt Archive

this new proposal about helping those with mental illness is pure crap!
you humanitarians make me sick. the reason why they have those illnesses is because god wants them dead, so we shouldnt get in the way of god. things like this would have never happend back in the fuedal era. only the strong survive. you are wasting our hard earned money on something that has no real value. what can mentaly ill people do for us? they are a burden on our society and should be put out of their misery!

i'm sorry, could you be a little more obvious in your plea for attention via trolling? i don't think enough people will be able to tell that you're just doing this for a reaction.

OOC:
Come on, you can do better than that to attract attention, can't you? hehehe

IC:
Have some respect, this is the UN council... present your ideas in a correct way or you WILL be ignored.

Pablo B.
President
Community of Bariloche

its not for attention, idiots, i just think it is a stupid proposal and i think that everyone should vote "no"
thats all. if all i cared about was attention i think i would have posted more than 3 or 4 times in my years of being here.

Magical Mystery Island:

Just out of curiosity, do you have a white coned hat and a membership to the KKK?

Would you think this proposal is stupid if you were born with a genetic anomaly that made you inherently, fundamentally different than everyone else? If you were the one forced to clean up acid spills, or you were teased daily by almost every member of society you'd ever seen, or nobody would hire you because you couldn't perform the basic job functions you're applying for? If it were you in that position, I don't think you'd be saying this is 'idiotic' and 'stupid'. Your 'Only the strong survive' attitude is exactly the kind of thing you'd have heard from the americans 200 years ago. Social progress and technology can only come from an increase in intelligence. After all, I've never seen a moron build a spacecraft or a nation-wide high-speed network. And while I've never seen either of those built by someone with Trisomy-21 (Down's Syndrome) either, their lack of knowledge or intelligence is not something they did. It's not an attitude or a choice. They simply are retarded, and there's nothing they could have done to prevent it. If you were born different, you'd be begging for this proposal to be voted in.

Ohhh... The big veteran is pissed... :lol:

*click* taptaptap *click*

- Ignore cannon ready -

*whoooossshhhhh*

- Success: Magical mystery island ceased to exist to Bariloche -

I think we should punish the mentally ill, it is not worth it to keep them. With an evergrowing civilization aall slack must be cut. Forcing us to treat them specially would just be against freedom. If they are too uninteliigent to understand that acid will burn them, let them be. Us just treating them specially will just be bad for normal people. Suffocation of the nations people will result, destroying the baility to help other people.

How dare you insult my brother :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: *Punch Kick* grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr evil insinsitive subhuman scum. (The starter of this post)

I think we should punish the mentally ill, it is not worth it to keep them. With an evergrowing civilization aall slack must be cut. Forcing us to treat them specially would just be against freedom. If they are too uninteliigent to understand that acid will burn them, let them be. Us just treating them specially will just be bad for normal people. Suffocation of the nations people will result, destroying the baility to help other people.

I think our primary purpose here is to prevent the mistreatment of the mentally ill, not to create special treatment. Is it special treatment not to be eutanized because you aer a normal human being. Is it special treatment no to be subjected to medical experiments without your consent because you are normal? I think not. How about some serious debate on the issue and none of this trolling for argument garbage. How do you really stand. Do you feel we should be free to experiment on those mentally deficient just because they can't defend themselves? Come on...let's get some intellectual debate going, not this juvenile drivel.

Yeatrael:

If you don't like the UN, get out. Nobody is forcing you to stay.

But your post is exactly what I'm trying to show you....
You are letting your emotions rule your actions. If you weren't so angry when you typed that post, you'd have checked your spelling before you submitted it. I venture to guess that you and Magical Mystery Island come from regions that are still less than ideally developed, where people have not stood up and insisted that civilization be civilized. See where I'm coming from? My people and I, for one, will be supporting this resolution.

:evil: NOW THAT I AM CALMED DOWN I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT A FEW GREAT ACHEIVEMENTS HAVE BEEN DONE BY MENTALY CALLENGED (proper name not mentaly ill :evil: ) PEOPLE. :evil:

They need to add something about pysicly challanged people in the current one but that would be impossible to do, then the UN might be actully be good.


What is the avrage wait for the email to join the UN?

Magical Mystery Island:
[...]
Would you think this proposal is stupid if you were born with a genetic anomaly that made you inherently, fundamentally different than everyone else? If you were the one forced to clean up acid spills, or you were teased daily by almost every member of society you'd ever seen, or nobody would hire you because you couldn't perform the basic job functions you're applying for? If it were you in that position, I don't think you'd be saying this is 'idiotic' and 'stupid'.
[...]

What one would or would not say in an unverifiable, even impossible, hypothetical situation is hardly relevant. Since the resolution clearly states, and I quote: "Basic services should be offered to all citizens who are mentally-ill." the debate is clearly about allocating valuable resources to insure the upkeep of a population group based upon mental health.

Not only is it not fair toward mentally healthy people, this type of positive discrimation will have further reaching economic consequences. Now, in Fnoppix, we are able to make sure that even though those unfortunates are less able than others, they can enjoy the gratification of aiding our great nation.

This is an economic decission, not an emotional one.

There are certain points i want clearing up as I don't quite understand them. Firstly Magical Mystery Island maintains that "the reason why they[the mentally ill] have those illnesses is because god wants them dead," I can only say it is a very sadistic God that MM Island believes in, one that doesn't kill but leaves them in a state of pity for the rest (or sometimes whole) of their lives.

Yeatrael maintains that the mentally ill should be punished. This suggests that they have done something wrong, WHAT!!!, tell me I want to know. Also Yeatrael doesn't realise that ALL LAWS ARE AGAINST FREEDOM, so why is he in the UN, or for that matter in charge of a country. The arguement that because the mentally ill don't know that acid burns, we should let them spill up acid. You can extrapolate this and say that because children doen't know about the dangers of guns we should just let them play with them.

Also, just because some people in society aren't economically useful does not mean they should be cared for. Otherwise you could say that OAP's should be allowed to live, because they are not economically useful.

Hmm. You seem to be mentally ill in your "survival of the fittest post" I dont need psych classes to realize that you were, (or worse yet) are such a loser in high school that even the popularity status of the mentally ill is beyond you. Obvious jealousy. or maybe a slight superiority complex. Tell me, Do you have friends? Are they friends with an obvious loser? Why would you be against the mentally ill, when you in fact are mentally ill. Even if you do not have some kind of weird complex, The sadistic words that you speak would be declared an illness.

Okay, this is all pointless spam, it is okay to debate why you disagree with the resolution. But stop the flaming please, and simply if you disaprove of the U.N resolution quit the U.N, it's not hard. :D

:)

well since this thread has turned into a serious debate for, I should examine (logically) the cons.

first of all, rejecting this proposal does not automatically enforce its opposite. This is something that can be handled easily by each nation on a personal level

Secondly, as the wording in this proposal is vague, pretty much anyone could qualify for government funding, resulting in half of our workforce living off of the government.

I reccomend voting against until this resoloution is re-proposed with better wording.

The Mentally ill should be sterilzed or locked away as not to pollute our gene pool.. We already have enough damn genetic illnesses floating around our dirty gene pool. Pysc has taught me that alot of those mental illnesses are genetically transferred... Thus.. yeah I lost my point ... they shouldn't recieve special treatment...


(OOC: Don't bitch at me for my point of view, cuz that's what it is.. when I have power.. then you can bitch.. and I'll just.. dispose of you :twisted: )

The Mentally ill should be sterilzed or locked away as not to pollute our gene pool.. We already have enough damn genetic illnesses floating around our dirty gene pool. Pysc has taught me that alot of those mental illnesses are genetically transferred... Thus.. yeah I lost my point ... they shouldn't recieve special treatment...


(OOC: Don't bitch at me for my point of view, cuz that's what it is.. when I have power.. then you can bitch.. and I'll just.. dispose of you :twisted: )


Dispose of me...how with a "nukd id blo ya ead of" :lol: :roll:

Nah how I do that is not Proper to state in this forum... as the words I would use are foul. I am much more creative then 1) using that form of speech.. and 2) Letting you get off with a quick death.

Please be aware it would be as slow and painful as possible. :twisted:

I think everyone should vote against it. Not because I disagree with it (my state has large social welfare provisions), but because it is too frivilous. It forces nations who dislike it to leave, this would be okay if it was a nessary resolution. But it is a completely useless, partially from sloppy word (as has already been noted).


Point of information: One of the many mentally handicapped has been Newton, possibly the most influential scientist ever, had autism.

Sometimes, some mentally ill people are geniuses and contribute great ideas and useful inventions to society that cause great progress that would be impossible without them. Never judge an entire class of people based on a mere stereotype of mindlessness. Most mentally ill people are not mindless and many exist as normal citizens. Do not be so ignorant. bye.

this new proposal about helping those with mental illness is pure crap!
you humanitarians make me sick. the reason why they have those illnesses is because god wants them dead, so we shouldnt get in the way of god. things like this would have never happend back in the fuedal era. only the strong survive. you are wasting our hard earned money on something that has no real value. what can mentaly ill people do for us? they are a burden on our society and should be put out of their misery!

The only one who needs to be put out of his misery is you! All you are is just a heartless fiend that thinks "only the strong survive". Well let me tell you something brain over bron pal, BRAIN OVER BRON!!! Just becuase these people have mental health problems doesn't mean they need to be killed! Everyone has the right to live. A person having a mental illness doesn't mean that God wants them dead. Why would they even be born if God just wanted them dead? Now I would like you to explain that to me.

Well said, by many of you. (And some of you, not so well said, but point taken)

Which does everybody think this issue relates to: social, economical, or political?

The Rogue Nation of Greenspoint sees this as a social issue, which is already handled within our borders just fine, thank you. This is a national issue that the U.N. shouldn't even be addressing.

We have already cast our vote Against the resolution.

James Moehlman
Assistant Manager ico U.N. Affairs
Greenspoint

PRESS RELEASE -- Minister a Common Sense -- Republic a Even Greater Texas

As Texans we'd like y'all folks to consider votin' against this here UN proposal. Ain't so much that takin' care a folks that'r nuts is a bad idy, it's jes how far this kinda stuff might go. Imagine votin' fer this then findin' out they done went n' declared yer nuts n' ya end up in a padded cell sommers.

It's the official position a the government a the Republic a Even Greater Texas that it oughta be up to ever indpendent nation to set it's own standard a who's nuts n' who ain't. Therefore, we strongly recommend everbody vote against this n' remember, a lotta the folks commin' up with these idys a dang blasted Socialists!!!

Thankie :?

MMI, you are one of the saddest most sick-minded people! Holding on to the archaic belief that God wants the mentally ill-punished-its your kind that incites atheistic fanatics like-you know who-to write their hate-bile filled resolutions against religion! Your close-minded foolish response to this has prompted me to vote for the resolution, though before I was iffy, because I don't want to be leagued with the likes of you! God save us!
~Anithraldur

sorry

sorry

All you are is just a heartless fiend that thinks "only the strong survive". Well let me tell you something brain over bron pal, BRAIN OVER BRON!!!

If you meen BRAWN then you are not helping your case. Anyway anyone thinking of "quoting" Darwin with that survival of the fittest rubbish, should realise Darwin NEVER said that,but that mankind survived because of solidarity. It was Eugenicists and rascists and the aristocracies who came up with survival of the fittest so they could give some 'scientific' backing to their arguements.

lets gang up on him! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[...]
Which does everybody think this issue relates to: social, economical, or political?
All three, but I'll try to be brief.
Economic: Said this before, the resolution requires support for the mentally ill
Social: It (loosely) defines how a specific group of people should be treated.
Political: Several reasons:
Typical for topics that can easily be made emotional, e.g. to further one's carreer or avoid backlash (in democratic systems).
To structure a reform in the way one's population thinks and acts, in this case, there's a group of people one's subjects should pity and that group is allowed special treatment. (In Fnoppix' case, care needs to be taken in the education of the masses, a special program would need to be setup to make sure that allthough a certain class of people can enjoy benifits, the masses would still avidly believe that it is unacceptable not to contribute to society).
Opens the door, by way of precedent, for simiral 'inequality' laws (which could in the long run be benificial for Fnoppix, but is not in our current interests).

I have a large social welfare program in my nation. I fund mental health programs for depression, so less people will feel the need to commit suicide, for example. Anyone who is in need in my nation will find help somewhere. I have known many mentally ill people and they are some of the most gentle, kind, and compassionate people i have ever met. There are certain mental illnesses, like depression and schizophrenia, that can be treated, so why kill them, give them medication and therapy. Even the people with ones who can't be treated can live perfectly valid, fullfilling lives. I have seen more love in them than in many other people, and i don't think our world would be better off without them. My nation accepts refugees from all over, so if any mentally ill person in their own nation feels oppressed or judged, they can come to mine.

We of the Holy Empire of Henoria have voted in favor of this issue. Our nation already takes care of the Mentally Ill in our nation and have invested much in genetic research to find ways to cure such illnesses before birth. Until we find the way to end all mental illness we believe that these people should be well cared for.

Okay, this is all pointless spam, it is okay to debate why you disagree with the resolution. But stop the flaming please, and simply if you disaprove of the U.N resolution quit the U.N, it's not hard. :D

:)

I would have to agree... :)

Being a Nut about it won't help your view about it. :roll:

I have made a proposal that overturns this and the many other bad resolutions.

Please urge your delegate to support "United Nations Stabilization"!

Browse to the proposal list (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/34598/page=UN_proposal) and use the search box at the bottom of the page to find Stabilization .

MammonLord

One thing I don't understand about the proposal is why are we singleing out the mentally ill? Should we not treat everyone humanely, ill or not?

One thing I don't understand about the proposal is why are we singleing out the mentally ill? Should we not treat everyone humanely, ill or not?

It is not specified by the act therefore even if this act does pass it still remains up to the individual nation weather everyone else should be treated humanely or not.

I think it is because it is expected that normal citizens will be treated humanely. One would assume that they would also treat the mentally ill, but undercover reports in Britain have shown various homes are like "one flew over the cuckoos nest" but sometimes worse. I think it was MacIntyre Investigates.

well since this thread has turned into a serious debate for, I should examine (logically) the cons.

first of all, rejecting this proposal does not automatically enforce its opposite. This is something that can be handled easily by each nation on a personal level

Secondly, as the wording in this proposal is vague, pretty much anyone could qualify for government funding, resulting in half of our workforce living off of the government.

I reccomend voting against until this resoloution is re-proposed with better wording.

Fair point. This resolution seems a lot like one of the "noble" ones, but it can lead to murder,destruction of property, and beaurocratic complications. Firstly, the writer of the resolution made the criteria for mental illness too vague. What about the people who have the potential to lead almost normal lives if they take medication, but refuse to take it (or their parents don't want them to take it) for personal reasons? Even though a nation may have laws giving the people the right to choose whether or not to take such medication, but if he/she refuses to do so (or continue to do so unless it has severe side effects) then why should they have special rights under the law as opposed to any other person who chooses to become a danger to society of their own will.

You're right, the proposal wasn't clearly defined, so even though I agree that mentally ill people should not be punished or killed, I think we should demand clarification as to the specifics of this proposal.

Is it requiring SPECIAL treatment, or just medical aid and genetic research?

And what EXACTLY defines mental illnes in relation to this proposal?

You're right, the proposal wasn't clearly defined, so even though I agree that mentally ill people should not be punished or killed, I think we should demand clarification as to the specifics of this proposal.

Is it requiring SPECIAL treatment, or just medical aid and genetic research?

And what EXACTLY defines mental illnes in relation to this proposal?


I don't know, the proposal is brief and poorly written but i'm guessing he means all people who have brain damage or a permanant disaese that affects them.

the proposal

Fair Treatment of Mentally-Ill
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human Rights Strength: Strong Proposed by: Faybian
Description: Humane Treatment of the Mentally-Ill

Resolved, all countries that are members of UN be required to treat citizens who are mentally-ill humanely.

A mental illness is defined as a psychiatric disorder that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others.

This proposal would include a ban on physical abuse, forcing mentally-ill citizens to perform inhumane tasks, or forcing mentally-ill citizens to live and/or work in inhumane conditions.

Basic services should be offered to all citizens who are mentally-ill.

Votes For: 6472

Votes Against: 979

[Delegate Votes]

Voting Ends: Wed Jan 21 2004



This bit is the bit i feel is too brief

:)

I don't support it, as it is too brief and it does not define what mentally ill means, so no. :)

OOC :

This is my first post. And I have a personal link to this topic, so I decided to come out of lurking.

Now, I am not an expert with politics. But I can tell you that I am "mentally ill". I have panic-anxiety disorder, and depression. In the proposal (and in my real country, Malaysia) that qualifies enough as mentally ill - it has stopped me from attending school and other activities for a while.

Thankfully treatment has helped me a lot, and I am recovering now (I went off medication recently). But there is still stigma attached to it - I was looked down upon at school, and sometimes having a psychiatric illness can stop you from getting a job.

Malaysia enacted a proposal like this recently, and it seems to be doing well. Nothing untoward has happened. Besides, the governments can always define "basic services". So I support this proposal thoroughly.

B*B, Tiara
Wodongo

The Mentally ill should be sterilzed or locked away as not to pollute our gene pool.. We already have enough damn genetic illnesses floating around our dirty gene pool. Pysc has taught me that alot of those mental illnesses are genetically transferred... Thus.. yeah I lost my point ... they shouldn't recieve special treatment...


(OOC: Don't bitch at me for my point of view, cuz that's what it is.. when I have power.. then you can bitch.. and I'll just.. dispose of you :twisted: )

CAAP..they did that in the USA in the 30's and 40's....lost tons in lawsuits. It was inhumane.

You're right, the proposal wasn't clearly defined, so even though I agree that mentally ill people should not be punished or killed, I think we should demand clarification as to the specifics of this proposal.

Is it requiring SPECIAL treatment, or just medical aid and genetic research?

And what EXACTLY defines mental illnes in relation to this proposal?

If the proposal is rejected, it does not enforce it's opposite. If the proposal is rejected it merely means that the individual nations may enforce laws of their own.

If you need clarification, please reject this proposal so that it can be re-written and re-submitted.

i'm guessing he means all people who have brain damage or a permanant disaese that affects them.

What is meant by the law and what is worded in the law are two different things. When it comes down to actual execution of the law, the letter of the law is usually what gets implemented.

If a nation disallows people with only minor mental illness from recieving 'basic services' then they could be held in violation of UN treaty.

Thankfully treatment has helped me a lot, and I am recovering now (I went off medication recently). But there is still stigma attached to it - I was looked down upon at school, and sometimes having a psychiatric illness can stop you from getting a job.

I would support this legislation thouroughly if it said an illness that makes it close difficult or impossible to hold a job. The current legislature does not.

I get tired of the view that to ensure a minority gropu has the same rights the majority has,it's giving them "special" rights.

Almost Animal Farm-ish....

The Mentally ill should be sterilzed or locked away as not to pollute our gene pool.. We already have enough damn genetic illnesses floating around our dirty gene pool. Pysc has taught me that alot of those mental illnesses are genetically transferred... Thus.. yeah I lost my point ... they shouldn't recieve special treatment...

You obviously weren't paying attention in psychology class.

Certain mental disorders are transferred genetically to offspring genetically. The alleles do, indeed, have a chance to survive in the gene pool. However, not all mental illnesses have a genetic basis; indeed, many cases of paranoid schizophrenia, schizotypal personality disorder, chronic depression, bipolar disorder, and various other mental illnesses have no known or even likely genetic cause. Many of them are, according to psychological science, caused by environmental factors, including some that occurred in the womb. With many, many, many mental illness sufferers, medication successfully treats the disease, and offspring show no trace of the disorder. Yes, some mental illnesses apparently have a genetic basis- I myself once suffered from panic disorder, as did my mother. However, we are now healthy, productive members of society. Similarly, several friends of the family are diagnosed paranoid schizophrenics. With the aid of the Baker Act and various other government social services, these people are now healthy, productive members of society as well.

It's a true pity that your psychology classes did not teach you compassion... or, for that matter, much about psychiatric genetics.

this new proposal about helping those with mental illness is pure crap!
you humanitarians make me sick. the reason why they have those illnesses is because god wants them dead

Dont bring religion into this... Desra believes in freedom of religion and a separation of church and state.

Policies should be developed for the good of the people