NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello everyone. I wanted to tell you about a proposal I made, and mayeb we can get it passed. Now, I realize that it's a little bit extreme, but I thought I'd give it a chance. Here it is...

Where as: People are indiviguals, and responsible for themselves, and that all crimes must have a victim to be crimes.

Be it proposed that people have the right to choose:

1) Whether or not do do drugs in the privacy of their own homes.

2) Whether of not to marry a consenting adult of the same sex or not.

3) Whether or not to use their money for gambling purposes.

4) Whether or not to join the military or not.

5) If it is one their best interest to engage in pornography or prostitution.

6) What a their payment is, in agreement with the one whois paying (This would facilitate the abolishment of the minimum wage law)

7) What they would like to spend their money on.

The right to choose would put more power to people themselves, and would increase the need for the indivigual to take responsibility of their own lives.

We support this resolution, though we believe that marriage ought not to be a function of government at all.

1) Whether or not do do drugs in the privacy of their own homes.

I disagree. This can have ramifications that effect others, such as someone doing pot getting the munchies and heading over to the seven 11.

2) Whether of not to marry a consenting adult of the same sex or not.

agree

3) Whether or not to use their money for gambling purposes.

agree

4) Whether or not to join the military or not.

Disagree. In times of national emergency it may be neccesary to install a draft.

5) If it is one their best interest to engage in pornography or prostitution.

Agree, to an extent, as long as it is not Child Pornography.

6) What a their payment is, in agreement with the one whois paying (This would facilitate the abolishment of the minimum wage law)

Disagree. Corrupt business's could find some way of Forcing people to work for low wages though they might deserve more.

7) What they would like to spend their money on.

Reword it to "what Legal things they would like to their money on.

I think it's generally a good proposal but i disagree with some of it--as Scottorania said, drugs can affect and even kill other people, and i don't support gay marriage for moral reasons. I don't think legalizing prostitution is good for anybody, and I don't think it's a good enough reason to legalize it to say that people should be able to do whatever they want. I also think minimum wage laws are absolutely necessary, or else many poor would be forced to work at penny-paying jobs because they may not be able to find anything better. But the rest of the proposals sound like great ideas!

There is nothing wrong with being extreme. You are taking a stance, speaking your mind, and abiding by your principles. For that alone, your proposal is worth consideration.

My people are very libertarian. We have approved your resolution and will vote for it if it reaches the floor. If we had more time we would assist you in lobbying to have it reached to the floor and succeed.

This is a wonderful resolution! Best of luck passing it.

This resolution is a good start, but like one of the other governments posted, there could be too many potential ramifications that need to be fully addressed first. We would like to see this re-drafted, then submitted to the UN. That said, we applaud your efforts to proposing a good idea and draft to the UN for consideration.

His Royal Highness Bradley I of the States of Stephenson

Catholic Europe does not support this proposal. There are certian things in that proposal which are sinful and should not be allowed by law.

I do not support this proposal as it would allow disgraceful actions to occur in my nation and also some of these acts are covered in issues 8)

Thank you all for your approvals/suggestions. Assuming this itself won't pass, I will go through and made some revisions and re-propose it later.

I really liked most of the proposal. I agree that for the most part people need to have the right to choose things like prostitution and drugs. (For those against prostitution, I would like to point out that the places with legal prostitution tend to have better treated prostitutes, and less spread of various diseases. Legal prostitution generally means legal condom wearing... :wink: )

The only thing I disagree on is the last item. Not having minimum wage laws works well when workers are in short supply, but in times of recession, and when the economy is not doing well, then there needs to be something to stop employers from dropping wages down to nothing. (Supply and demand...)

There are too many issues addressed for a single proposal, while I agree with some of it, I would vote against this proposal due to a couple of things that I disagree with (minimum wage primarily)

Ministry of Internal Affairs
On behalf of the Holy Emperor of Dalradia
Robert IV

1) Whether or not do do drugs in the privacy of their own homes.

I disagree. This can have ramifications that effect others, such as someone doing pot getting the munchies and heading over to the seven 11.

Then abolish robbery, don't abolish drugs.

Either way, it's clear that the DEA is more criminal than any druggies are.

4) Whether or not to join the military or not.

Disagree. In times of national emergency it may be neccesary to install a draft.

That's called slavery. All conscripts ought to follow in the steps of Nicholas II's conscripts and turn their rifles on their own leaders.

That's like saying, in times of economic emergency, I have hte right to take a gun and force my neighbor to work for me.

5) If it is one their best interest to engage in pornography or prostitution.

Agree, to an extent, as long as it is not Child Pornography.

Why not?

6) What a their payment is, in agreement with the one whois paying (This would facilitate the abolishment of the minimum wage law)

Disagree. Corrupt business's could find some way of Forcing people to work for low wages though they might deserve more.

You obviously don't know anything about economics, do you? How does a business 'force' people to work for low wages? People still have ot agree to take the job.

7) What they would like to spend their money on.

Reword it to "what Legal things they would like to their money on.

That's fair.

There are too many issues addressed for a single proposal, while I agree with some of it, I would vote against this proposal due to a couple of things that I disagree with (minimum wage primarily)

Ministry of Internal Affairs
On behalf of the Holy Emperor of Dalradia
Robert IV
I agree. Its a little broad. I agree with most of the issues, but since i dont ageee with them all (minimum wage) i wouldnt vote for it. Try taking out some of the more contraversel ones and it has a good chance to pass.

Then abolish robbery, don't abolish drugs.

Either way, it's clear that the DEA is more criminal than any druggies are.

I was actually reffering to the fact that the person on drugs will not be completly in control of themselves when they leave the house, thus endangering others. I didn't think of theft/robbery as problem

However, I do see your point, I guess, to a degree. Pot will not likely harm people. But what about more dangerous drugs such as Crack/Heroine/LSD Etc?

that's called slavery. All conscripts ought to follow in the steps of Nicholas II's conscripts and turn their rifles on their own leaders.

That's like saying, in times of economic emergency, I have hte right to take a gun and force my neighbor to work for me.

Don't be absurd, thats not the same. One threatens the lifes of the citizens and very existance of a nation; Economics merely make the nation poorer, which it will recover from, in time.


Why not?

Children do not have the emotional Maturity to engage in sexual acts, and can be deeply scarred if they are forced to do so.


You obviously don't know anything about economics, do you? How does a business 'force' people to work for low wages? People still have ot agree to take the job.


A powerful corrupt business says "Work for us or we kill your mother". The Business is forcing you to work for dirt cheap.
Obviously, that is just a rough example, but it conveys the general idea.

7) What they would like to spend their money on.

Reword it to "what Legal things they would like to their money on.

That's fair.

Well, we agree on something atleast. :)

Don't be absurd, thats not the same. One threatens the lifes of the citizens and very existance of a nation; Economics merely make the nation poorer, which it will recover from, in time.



Well, here. Let's take a look at the word "slavery" I just looked it up in a Merriam-Webster Dictionary, and here's what it says...


1 : submission to a dominating influence
2 : the state of a person who is a chattel of another

Well, let's say the government is the dominating influence. The drafted people are effectilvely being forced to submit to them.

And for the second, let's say the government is that "other one" that the slave is a chattel to. It seems to add up to me. I think that since it's been going on for such a long time, we've gotten used to it.

Where as: People are indiviguals, and responsible for themselves, and that all crimes must have a victim to be crimes.

Be it proposed that people have the right to choose:

1) Whether or not do do drugs in the privacy of their own homes.

2) Whether of not to marry a consenting adult of the same sex or not.

3) Whether or not to use their money for gambling purposes.

4) Whether or not to join the military or not.

5) If it is one their best interest to engage in pornography or prostitution.

6) What a their payment is, in agreement with the one whois paying (This would facilitate the abolishment of the minimum wage law)

7) What they would like to spend their money on.

The right to choose would put more power to people themselves, and would increase the need for the indivigual to take responsibility of their own lives.

I agree with all but point 4 and point 6. As you can see, my nation is one of compolsory military service, and I find it necessary, especially for a small nation such as myself. Also, in the past unregulated industies have shown to become more oppressive than freeing. If allowed, than the rich would become too vastly elite not only in busting Unions and making workers have to work long hours for little, but also in the amount of power they would gain within their nation's government and possible those of others in the UN.

I agree with most of this.

I was actually reffering to the fact that the person on drugs will not be completly in control of themselves when they leave the house, thus endangering others. I didn't think of theft/robbery as problem

Then abolish endangering others, when you use drugs, you are only taking a direct harm to yourself.

However, I do see your point, I guess, to a degree. Pot will not likely harm people. But what about more dangerous drugs such as Crack/Heroine/LSD Etc?

Still less dangerous than civil forefeiture laws and the DEA.

Don't be absurd, thats not the same. One threatens the lifes of the citizens and very existance of a nation; Economics merely make the nation poorer, which it will recover from, in time.

Poor nations tend to have people starve to death and suffer instability. Doesn't that threaten the lives of the citizens and the existence of hte nation?

Children do not have the emotional Maturity to engage in sexual acts, and can be deeply scarred if they are forced to do so.

Are you God? If not, what makes you think you know how mature somebody else is?

A powerful corrupt business says "Work for us or we kill your mother". The Business is forcing you to work for dirt cheap.
Obviously, that is just a rough example, but it conveys the general idea.

That's called "coercion". Abolish that. Abolish the minimum wage too. Since that has nothing to do with each other.

I was actually reffering to the fact that the person on drugs will not be completly in control of themselves when they leave the house, thus endangering others. I didn't think of theft/robbery as problem

Then abolish endangering others, when you use drugs, you are only taking a direct harm to yourself.

However, I do see your point, I guess, to a degree. Pot will not likely harm people. But what about more dangerous drugs such as Crack/Heroine/LSD Etc?

Still less dangerous than civil forefeiture laws and the DEA.

Don't be absurd, thats not the same. One threatens the lifes of the citizens and very existance of a nation; Economics merely make the nation poorer, which it will recover from, in time.

Poor nations tend to have people starve to death and suffer instability. Doesn't that threaten the lives of the citizens and the existence of hte nation?

Children do not have the emotional Maturity to engage in sexual acts, and can be deeply scarred if they are forced to do so.

Are you God? If not, what makes you think you know how mature somebody else is?

A powerful corrupt business says "Work for us or we kill your mother". The Business is forcing you to work for dirt cheap.
Obviously, that is just a rough example, but it conveys the general idea.

That's called "coercion". Abolish that. Abolish the minimum wage too. Since that has nothing to do with each other.

I was actually reffering to the fact that the person on drugs will not be completly in control of themselves when they leave the house, thus endangering others. I didn't think of theft/robbery as problem

Then abolish endangering others, when you use drugs, you are only taking a direct harm to yourself.

However, I do see your point, I guess, to a degree. Pot will not likely harm people. But what about more dangerous drugs such as Crack/Heroine/LSD Etc?

Still less dangerous than civil forefeiture laws and the DEA.

Don't be absurd, thats not the same. One threatens the lifes of the citizens and very existance of a nation; Economics merely make the nation poorer, which it will recover from, in time.

Poor nations tend to have people starve to death and suffer instability. Doesn't that threaten the lives of the citizens and the existence of hte nation?

Children do not have the emotional Maturity to engage in sexual acts, and can be deeply scarred if they are forced to do so.

Are you God? If not, what makes you think you know how mature somebody else is?

A powerful corrupt business says "Work for us or we kill your mother". The Business is forcing you to work for dirt cheap.
Obviously, that is just a rough example, but it conveys the general idea.

That's called "coercion". Abolish that. Abolish the minimum wage too. Since that has nothing to do with each other.

Then abolish endangering others, when you use drugs, you are only taking a direct harm to yourself.

Honestly, that sounds ridicoulous. Abolish Endangering others? What happens, if for example, an airplane pilot has a heart attack while flying and the plane loses control for a while untill the copilot regains control. Would the pilot face charges for endangering others because he is not piloting the plane?

Still less dangerous than civil forefeiture laws and the DEA.

Perhaps you are right. Care to explain what the above are?


Poor nations tend to have people starve to death and suffer instability. Doesn't that threaten the lives of the citizens and the existence of hte nation?

To an extent, but not as many people starve to death as lose their lives to war.

Are you God? If not, what makes you think you know how mature somebody else is?

I think you are just being arguementitive on this. Do you honestly believe the normal Child of 7-11 years old has the maturity to deal with sexual relations, often very strange ones if it is for pornograpic purposes.


That's called "coercion". Abolish that. Abolish the minimum wage too. Since that has nothing to do with each other.

How will you know if someone is being coerced? It's a lot easier to regulate minium wage than Coercion.

And coercion is illeagel.

Then abolish endangering others, when you use drugs, you are only taking a direct harm to yourself.

Honestly, that sounds ridicoulous. Abolish Endangering others? What happens, if for example, an airplane pilot has a heart attack while flying and the plane loses control for a while untill the copilot regains control. Would the pilot face charges for endangering others because he is not piloting the plane?

Let me reprhase... Abolish taking positive action to purposely and intentionally endanger others.

Perhaps you are right. Care to explain what the above are?

Civil forefeiture laws are laws that allow the government to take your property without compensation without actually proving you're guilty.

Basically it kills the 4th and 5th amendments of hte bill of rights.

The DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) is a semi-constitutional government bureaucracy that is run by a drug czar--that's right, a government official named after the former dictator of Russia. He has a similiar job too.

To an extent, but not as many people starve to death as lose their lives to war.

Incorrect. About the same number of people starved to death in the 20th century than have been killed by war.

In a single famine alone, the China famine of 1958-61, 40 million people starved to death. Only 50 million were killed in all of World War II and that includes teh Holocaust.

I think you are just being arguementitive on this. Do you honestly believe the normal Child of 7-11 years old has the maturity to deal with sexual relations, often very strange ones if it is for pornograpic purposes.

No, but I'm sure many adults don't either. And I'm sure some children do.

How will you know if someone is being coerced? It's a lot easier to regulate minium wage than Coercion.

But that's not the same thing. The amount of pay you get has nothing to do with whether or not you are forced to work.

Besides, if somebody won't complain to the police that he's being coerced, what makes you think he will complain about his pay?

And coercion is illeagel.

Which is why we should abolish the minimum wage.

While we value freedom of conscience above everything else, and are in sympathy with your objectives, we feel this proposal is soo broad it will inevitably generate strong opposition.

It would be more time-comsuming, but you may achieve better results by enetering each section as a separate proposal. That way some parts at leaast may pass.