Feed The World
The Belmore Family
10-01-2004, 18:48
My Proposal currently reads
"Suggests that the United Nations Department for Eating And Diets (UNDEAD) be set up to enter nations to find people that are currently mal-nutritioned
Defines being mal-nutritioned as having 1 meal or less a day.
Calls for all nations that currently hold "food mountains" and "food lakes" to donate them to the UNDEAD for distribution in mal-nutritioned nations.
Calls for the UNDEAD to distrubute this food so that everyone can have at least 2 meals a day.
Asks for all nations to unite behind this resolution as to ensure an end to World Hunger."
Feedback & approvals wanted.
Please only put constructive critism, just putting something such as "no, that sux" will just be ignored.
The Republic of Ithuania will not participate in any form of forced/coerced wealth redistribution.
However, the undead may be interested in working night-shifts in The Kingdom of The Big Yellow Spot for subsistence wages.
King Flubbert III
Grand High Lord of the Evil Flea of Doom
The Belmore Family
10-01-2004, 18:54
The Republic of Ithuania will not participate in any form of forced/coerced wealth redistribution.
We note to Ithuanaia that Food Lake and Food Mountains are unwanted food.
OOC: By the way, this is called food dumping, and it makes poor nations poorer - food is dumped on local markets at zero value, and local producers can't compete. It's what America do to many countries.
We must first get rid of capitalism in those countries, then.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
We must first get rid of capitalism in those countries, then.
Deastroying their way of life is not always the answer.
No, it's called replacing, not destroying. Besides, why preserve capitalism? It's a scourge that is no better than racism.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
Not really, it's a pretty strong methjod not only for gaining wealth, but also portecting citizens rights, if properly regulated. Communism, on the other hand, would never work. Look at Castro, he was never given a fair chance, and his nation can't move into true communism. OR the USSR, somoene like Stalin went in and fucked up their chances of becoming truely communist, and replaced it with a depotism.
They were state socialist, not communist. They were essentially the "left wing" counterpart to fascism.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
And that'll happen to any nation attempting to become communist, human nature ensures that the powers to be will take advantage of their position in a post-communist revolution state. The only three people that didn't do that were Lenin, Trotsky, and Che, and look what happened to them.
Perhaps, I'm not a communist, though.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
Collaboration
10-01-2004, 21:27
In cases of crisis food donations may be helpful, but appropriately scaled technologies and training will produce better results for agriculture worldwide in the long term.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 00:27
My Proposal currently reads
"Suggests that the United Nations Department for Eating And Diets (UNDEAD) be set up to enter nations to find people that are currently mal-nutritioned
Defines being mal-nutritioned as having 1 meal or less a day.
Calls for all nations that currently hold "food mountains" and "food lakes" to donate them to the UNDEAD for distribution in mal-nutritioned nations.
Calls for the UNDEAD to distrubute this food so that everyone can have at least 2 meals a day.
Asks for all nations to unite behind this resolution as to ensure an end to World Hunger."
Feedback & approvals wanted.
Please only put constructive critism, just putting something such as "no, that sux" will just be ignored.
Mass starvation isn't caused by lack of food; it's caused by bad government. Amartya Sen proves this.
No mass starvation has EVER occured in a democratic country, no matter how poor.
No mass starvation has EVER occured in a country with a free press, no matter how poor.
No mass starvation has EVER occured in a country that protects private property rights, no matter how poor.
I'm tired of these property rights. They were made up by capitalists to make alternatives look bad, which obviously benefits themselves.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
Congratulations on learning how to make wild speculations with no basis in objective fact.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 00:43
I'm tired of these property rights. They were made up by capitalists to make alternatives look bad, which obviously benefits themselves.
History speaks for itself. No country that has had adequate respect for private property rights has ever experienced mass starvation. Even poor ones. In the 1990s, Mali suffered a 5% decline in food production, with the result being mass starvation. But Botswana and Zimbawbwe, countries that do respect property rights more or less, suffered 40 and 30% declines in food production, respectively, and did not experience mass starvation.
Right. I suppose Mali is state socialist.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 01:22
Right. I suppose Mali is state socialist.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
I don't think Mali has much of a state to begin with.
And how can they not respect property rights, then? Who taxed the rich and made child labor illegal?
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 01:46
And how can they not respect property rights, then? Who taxed the rich and made child labor illegal?
Um... property rights cannot exist without the rule of law, simply because no law = no rights.
Then they are simply social constructs. Believe it or not, many societies existed without capitalism.
Does the economic system used in ancient times count as capitalism?
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 01:59
Then they are simply social constructs. Believe it or not, many societies existed without capitalism.
Right. Property rights are social constructs. As is the right to life. But that doesn't mean that it would be morally correct for me to shoot you.
Is the economic system used by, say, Rome or Greece, which had rich people and such, capitalist?
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 02:12
Is the economic system used by, say, Rome or Greece, which had rich people and such, capitalist?
No. They were slave-based economies.
One can clearly see the beginnings of capitalism in Ancient Athens, but Athens used a more Keynesian and even populist (conquered states had their land redistrubuted among the poor) influences.
I would hesistate before classifying any pre-1750 country as capitalist.
And what requirement of capitalism did they not meet? As far as I know, capitalism is about gaining wealth and owning business. People did both back then. How is a slave all that different than a poor person working to stay alive in today's companies?
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 02:30
And what requirement of capitalism did they not meet? As far as I know, capitalism is about gaining wealth and owning business. People did both back then. How is a slave all that different than a poor person working to stay alive in today's companies?
Capitalism is a state of high economic freedom, achieved through:
- The protection of property rights through law
- Private ownership of the means of production
- The use of supply and demand to determine prices
- The abolition of the use of force and fraud against others
- The protection of property rights through law
There were no substantial provisions of property protection under the Roman Constitution, although Roman common law became the foundation of future property rights jurisprudence.
- Private ownership of the means of production
In Athens and possibly Rome, most of the means of production were publically controlled.
- The abolition of the use of force and fraud
Athens and Rome routinely invaded other countries and then split up their land and gave it to the poor back home.
Are we to believe that state socialism preceeded capitalism?
More importantly, is the privilege to be wealthly more important than the right to live?
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 02:48
Are we to believe that state socialism preceeded capitalism?
I wouldn't call it state socialism. Mercantilism, Imperialism maybe.
And the privilege to be wealthy IS the right to live. You do not have the right to life or property outside your own means. The right to property is inseparable from the right to life.
And the privilege to be wealthy IS the right to live. You do not have the right to life or property outside your own means. The right to property is inseparable from the right to life.
I'm afraid not. You can be given the privilege to be rich and not have the right to live and you can have the right to live without being given the privilege of wealth.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 03:02
And the privilege to be wealthy IS the right to live. You do not have the right to life or property outside your own means. The right to property is inseparable from the right to life.
I'm afraid not. You can be given the privilege to be rich and not have the right to live and you can have the right to live without being given the privilege of wealth.
Okay, not the privilege of wealth, but the right to life MEANS the right to property. Here's how:
PREMISE: You have the right to life (i.e. the right to your mind)
Therefore, you have the right to your body, the biological means by which you sustain your mind.
Therefore, you must also have the right to the products of your body and your mind, as per common law, thus the right to property.
If you are forced to put your property in the service of others, you are being forced to put your mind and body in the service of others. Hence, your right to life is violated.
Therefore, you must also have the right to the products of your body and your mind, as per common law, thus the right to property.
How? You don't need property to live, like your body.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
OK, try not eating, or sitting naked outdoors in a snowstorm, and tell me how long you wind up living.
What does that have to do with property? You don't make your own clothes or food, slaves in China do.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
1) Clothing and food belong to someone, don't they
2) Actually, the corn I had for lunch was grown in my backyard; I'm not wearing any shoes or shirt at the moment; my pants were sewn together by my mother as a gift
3) At any rate, these people in China you're referring to aren't slaves if there is no violence threatened against them if they choose to leave--and if there IS a threat of violence, then the system cannot be considered capitalism.
You can have personal possesions, but you really don't need 10 million dollars to live or even be happy.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
Spookistan and Jakalah
11-01-2004, 04:05
You can have personal possesions, but you really don't need 10 million dollars to live or even be happy.
I'd be happier with ten million dollars a year than I would be with other people having shoes.
But back to the original point of this thread, I disagree with the proposal because the size of the meal is undefined. I often have 1 meal a day; it's just very large. And the proposal could easily be fulfilled by halving the size of meals given to the starving masses.
You can have personal possesions, but you really don't need 10 million dollars to live or even be happy.
I'd be happier with ten million dollars a year than I would be with other people having shoes.
Beacause all in all, everybody want's everything. True Communism is a noble idea, but human's are evil by nature, ending hope for those in all but the smallest communites.
I'd be happier with ten million dollars a year than I would be with other people having shoes.
And therein lies the problem. You consider having stupid pieces of metal or green pieces of paper more important than others having a decent life. Ask yourself why you want money so bad.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 05:00
You can have personal possesions, but you really don't need 10 million dollars to live or even be happy.
Are you God? What makes you think that you know what will make someone else happy?
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 05:01
You can have personal possesions, but you really don't need 10 million dollars to live or even be happy.
Are you God? What makes you think that you know what will make someone else happy?
Are you God? What makes you think that you know what will make someone else happy?
You're right, but you have to wonder about yourself if your main source of happiness is little pieces of paper and metal.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
No, its not the pieces of paper and metal. Its in the goods and services we exchange them for.
I just love that acronym, your resolution is funny. I do not like the change in malnutrition however.... I will not approve this resolution and will vote against it if it reaches the floor.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 17:15
Are you God? What makes you think that you know what will make someone else happy?
You're right, but you have to wonder about yourself if your main source of happiness is little pieces of paper and metal.
It's not up to me to decide what makes other people happy. All I know is what makes myself happy. And all you know is what makes yourself happy.