Renewable Energy Proposal
The Glorious Nation of Bahgum suggests that the following proposal (uncannily sensible for us) is of the utmost improtance for the world. Please vote for it, and tell your friendly delegates, or if you haven't got one, then yell at em!
Renewable power
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.
Category: Environmental Industry Affected: Uranium Mining Proposed by: Bahgum
Description: It is proposed that, in order to slow down the number of third world nations bombed into oblivion for oil, that all industrially advanced nations *see note* shall endeavour to become fully reliant on renewable technology by 2014.
Technology in areas such as solar, wind and tidal has now advanced to the point at which the major barrier to widespread use is political will.
Adoption of this proposal will have the added benefit of creating a mass market for such technology, driving costs down and creating a labour market. Of course, governments will have to apply a subsidy in the first few years, but this could pale into insignificance compared to the costs of nuclear power and its waste storage.
*note* industrially advanced nations will be defined as those which show endless gardening and house makeover programmes on TV and suffer from a national obesity epidemic.
So you say that we should force everyone to spend tons on new energy?
Well, no, if it hurts industry I can't agree. I would agree to a UN organization, that uses UN money to think up these fuels, and then releases them to UN nations.
And that anti-commi clan is the problem of political will in a nutshell, we need some short term investment for a very large gain in the future, and looking at what we are doing to the planet is shameful.
Bahgum.
That's what I'm saying, the UN can put together an organization, and create this and sell it to countries. With the money they raise, they can do whatever they want.
The Republic of Ithuania will not tell its citizens what energy sources to use, nor would any other moral nation.
One would have to ask what a nation has a government for, if it doesn't give policy decisions to its nation??
Government serves to protect citizens from those who engage in coercive fraudulent or violent acts against the person or property of others, to mediate disputes and enforce contracts, and to protect its citizens from foreign invasion.
and also to improve the infrastructure and environment, education and wellbeing of the nation, which a little long term science and environment investment will help.
False. That is what private organizations are for--NOT government.
in which case I am glad I don't live in your country or have such a narrow view of government effectiveness and remit.
Will you get over the capitalism? It's getting old.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
There's nothing obsolete about freedom, liberty, and individualism--all of which exist under capitalism (and ONLY capitalism)
I suppose the !Kung and Inuit don't have individuality. They don't practice capitalism at all. They're closer to anarcho-communism.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
The Global Market
11-01-2004, 01:47
in which case I am glad I don't live in your country or have such a narrow view of government effectiveness and remit.
Yes... we should all adopt a loose-constructionist view of government as an all-benevolent and all-knowing entity... after all, two hundred million dead people can't be wrong... can they?
For the sake of the economies of myself and other hard working industrialized nations, I shall do everything in my power to make sure this never passes. My government shall swear to never interfere with the private sector and to safeguard the economic freedoms we hold so dear.
Theoretically speaking, what if Fusion became a feasible energy source? As I understand it now, the only barrier is the cost to contain the Energy and channel outweighs the energy made. If there were some type of energy effiect system made, would Fusion technology be appropriate as it does, to the best of my knowledge, create plenty of energy and has very little waste.
Theoretically speaking, what if Fusion became a feasible energy source? As I understand it now, the only barrier is the cost to contain the Energy and channel outweighs the energy made. If there were some type of energy effiect system made, would Fusion technology be appropriate as it does, to the best of my knowledge, create plenty of energy and has very little waste.
Regardless, the question must be asked " how much would the transition cost my nation?". Its a cost im not willing to pay, if the private sector of guntland chooses to pay for it then thats their choice. i choose not to intervien and i implore other like-minded capitalist nations to do the same.
I was addressing the creator of the proposal. I do agree with you, I just figured it would more effective if I brought up another point where the proposal could be argued over.
The Glorious Nation of Bahgum suggests that the following proposal (uncannily sensible for us) is of the utmost improtance for the world. Please vote for it, and tell your friendly delegates, or if you haven't got one, then yell at em!
Renewable power
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.
Category: Environmental Industry Affected: Uranium Mining Proposed by: Bahgum
Description: It is proposed that, in order to slow down the number of third world nations bombed into oblivion for oil, that all industrially advanced nations *see note* shall endeavour to become fully reliant on renewable technology by 2014.
Technology in areas such as solar, wind and tidal has now advanced to the point at which the major barrier to widespread use is political will.
Adoption of this proposal will have the added benefit of creating a mass market for such technology, driving costs down and creating a labour market. Of course, governments will have to apply a subsidy in the first few years, but this could pale into insignificance compared to the costs of nuclear power and its waste storage.
*note* industrially advanced nations will be defined as those which show endless gardening and house makeover programmes on TV and suffer from a national obesity epidemic.Are you a fool?
Alternate energy is great. We need an alternative to oil.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
Alternate energy is great.
Please explain why you came upon such an outrageous conclusion. For one yes it is a good idea, but it simply not cost effective or pratical.
It will kill capitalists who rely on fossil fuels for profit for one thing. It is also necessary.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
And you don't think they can be just as capitilistic without fossil fuels?
It will kill capitalists who rely on fossil fuels for profit for one thing. It is also necessary.
Yes, capitalist countries who use fossil fuels to power their thriving economies. Dont be mad because our economies are flourishing while your's has collapsed under socialism.
Our economy didn't collapse, it simply works differently from yours.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
But ours works better. Face that facts, our standard of living is higher.
The Great Democratic Republic of Saint Nelson Gouvernment informs that is fully agreeing with your proposal :)
But ours works better. Face that facts, our standard of living is higher.
Not for the poor, at least.
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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.
Yeah, but EVERYONE in your country is poor, as opposed to the small amount in ours.
I feel this quote by Winston Churchill fits perfectly with Letilas situation.
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Always amazed to see the directions a debate on a proposal can veer off on. Almost no debate on saving the environment or whether politicall will could make renewable energy a reality (which is what I was looking for). Nope, just the good old advanced nation view of screw the world as long as it's cheap.
Now as a RT government scientist, I can tell you with confidence, that any possibilities of practical power from fusion is at least 40 years away (we are still arguing about the siting of the latest world collaborative experimental ITER reactor). Reports from the UK DTI which are 5 years old stated that the covering of rooftops of all government owned buildings and a large fraction of industrial units with current (now 5 yrs old) solar panels would provide the UK with ALL its power needs. And that is a country not known for its sunny weather. The first country to grasp this big time, will have a world lead in reneable power and a potentially huge export market.
i suggest all those looking for alternative energy sources trade with Malichae, as we have a new bacterium that may be of use, for more information, see post http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2563686&highlight=#2563686
Always amazed to see the directions a debate on a proposal can veer off on. Almost no debate on saving the environment or whether politicall will could make renewable energy a reality (which is what I was looking for).
Because that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not it's government's place to make such mandates on its citizens (correct answer: it's not).
No, thats YOUR issue. You are going to disagree anyway, so lets call it even. I feel you've missed most of the point and sidetracked it with a wrong view of what governments are for, but there you go.
Collaboration
12-01-2004, 15:34
We use methane derived from mastodon dung.
Nuclear is an option, with current improved safeguards.
Send the waste by rocket into the sun.
And how much pollution does the rocket cause?
Anyway, I can't support this proposal - by taxing excessively, I can generate enough capital to create a carefully controlled environment in which I can live, with my closest family, friends and advisors. I should no longer have need for the evils of television, as I could now simply gaze out of the window at my pitiful subjects, for entertainment instead.
King Flubbert III
I can live, with my closest family, friends and advisors.
...and many concubines
Catholic Europe
12-01-2004, 16:12
Whilst Catholic Europe supports the 'idea' of the proposal we feel that the time length which is given for the world to become totally dependant on renewable energy is too soon. 30 years would be a much better and attainable target/time limit.
Reports from the UK DTI which are 5 years old stated that the covering of rooftops of all government owned buildings and a large fraction of industrial units with current (now 5 yrs old) solar panels would provide the UK with ALL its power needs. And that is a country not known for its sunny weather. The first country to grasp this big time, will have a world lead in reneable power and a potentially huge export market.[/quote]
This is simply not true. At best current technology, at peak operating conditions, solar panels produce about 19 watts per square meter. At that rate, if the entire property my factory sits on, 20000 square meters, were completely covered with solar panels, it would barely run the lights in the factory. That does not include computers, machine tools, and the like. We would also need more lights, because there would be no natural light in the building.
If all of the buildings in the UK were completely covered with solar panels, excluding the windows, it might provide enough power to power the lights and televisons for the country.