NationStates Jolt Archive

The Capital Flogging Act
A resolution to restrict civil freedoms in the interest of moral decency.

Description: People who are caught committing needless and utterly stupid acts of law breaking (such as robbery) should grant the government the right to choose to publicly flog the lawbreaker. The floggings can be allowed to take place immediately without trial if the person is caught in the act.

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On a personal note:
I am fed up with people who vandalize, steel, abuse, threaten, rob, defame others, etc.

After I learned that someone dropped a huge rock on the windshield of my parent's van as they were moving along the highway, I realized that these people (probably were kids or teens) need a harsh lesson. They need to be flogged. A friend of mine had his $10 hubcaps stolen from his car twice in his driveway. Sorry but I am fed up. People caught doing these things need a harsh flogging along with what ever punishments they get like community service or jail time, etc.

Anyone who commits terrible crimes that causes pain or misfortune to others need to be flogged as one of their punishments.
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HOW TO PROPERLY ADMINISTER FLOGGINGS:

All floggings must be approved by two law enforcement officers who do not know each other.

A flogging can be warranted immediately without trial only if it can be proven that the person committed a serious crime. An officer who arrests a person after they are seen in the act of a reckless crime has the authority to recommend a flogging to be approved by another officer.

Floggings may be done in public or in a police station.

The number of lashes can vary on the severity of the crime, but should never exceed 50 lashes.

Floggings may be made to those who are between the ages of 9 and 70 years of age.

Floggings may be administered by a law enforcement officer
using only a belt like flog, which may have strands. The flog may contain only leather and wooden beads. Leather alone is also acceptable.

Flogs must be sterilized before every use.

When the flogging is taking place, the floggings must be monitored by an unrelated Law Enforcement officer who does not know the officer that is administering the floggings.

The monitoring officer must evaluate the administering officer's care, and ensure that the criminal is not being over punished or receives any fatal blows.
The monitoring officer may choose to stop any floggings if he feels necessary.

Any person arrested in a crime that cannot be immediately proven, must have a trial to prove their guilt and warrant a flogging.

The Capital Flogging Act
A resolution to restrict civil freedoms in the interest of moral decency.

Description: People who are caught committing needless and utterly stupid acts of law breaking (such as robbery) should grant the government the right to choose to publicly flog the lawbreaker. The floggings can be allowed to take place immediately without trial if the person is caught in the act.


How do you diffrentiate between "needless and utterly stupid" acts and "needful and utterly clever" acts ? is there ever such a thing as a "needful act of law breaking ?"

true true, but is that all you can say about this?
Do you generally agree with the concept of floggings?

How do you diffrentiate between "needless and utterly stupid" acts and "needful and utterly clever" acts ? is there ever such a thing as a "needful act of law breaking ?"
The Enodian delegate applauds this rare example of sharp-tongued wit on the UN floor, but would also contend that the Calumnian delegate has omitted to consider the concept of Civil Disobedience - which, while irrelevant to the matter at hand, might fall under the category of a "needful act of lawbreaking".

This is totally wrong and unacceptable. Yes, they have commited a crime, but to humiliate people is totally wrong. Yes they should be punished, but it should be done in privacy and they should not be made to experience something like that - which is totally unacceptable.

Just flog them. They break they law, then they deserve it. This is my oppinion from the trinity seas.

Just flog them. They break they law, then they deserve it. This is my oppinion from the trinity seas.

That is wrong. You need to show all people, whether they have commited a crime or not, forgiveness and humility. By flogging them you are showing neither.

While punishment is necessary for crimes (this is obvious to a good leader), it is The Principality of Joshu's opinion that public humiliation is not neccesary on a personal level. As for Civil Disobedience, it is not only tolerated, but encouraged as a way to get one's point across, so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others. However, this is not the point at hand. Thus, The Principality of Joshu does not support public flogging.

The Republic of Hazak supports this act. Our nation is very well disciplined because of flogging, we have a very small crime rate, all nations should be as well behaved.

How do you diffrentiate between "needless and utterly stupid" acts and "needful and utterly clever" acts ? is there ever such a thing as a "needful act of law breaking ?"
The Enodian delegate applauds this rare example of sharp-tongued wit on the UN floor, but would also contend that the Calumnian delegate has omitted to consider the concept of Civil Disobedience - which, while irrelevant to the matter at hand, might fall under the category of a "needful act of lawbreaking".

Okay.. this is great.. I spend two hours writing a long and erudite reply to this, reasoning that there's really no such thing as a "needful act of law breaking", hit the submit button, and get "invalid session." Just great. :)

I'm not going to do all that stuff again... I'll just summarize it here : even in the most despotic governments, there's always an avenue of appeal. So there's no such thing as a "needful act of law-breaking" -- all acts of lawbreaking are willful by nature.

The fact that you would delve that deeply into a rhetorical error baffles me!

What I was trying to say is people who do stupid things like break laws causeing pain to others need to be flogged.
Note I further state what I mean further down the paragraph
Anyone who commits terrible crimes that causes pain or misfortune to others need to be flogged as one of their punishments.
btw, so that you dont delve into what "terrible" is, I will say that all crimes are terrible.

The fact that you would delve that deeply into a rhetorical error baffles me!

What I was trying to say is people who do stupid things like break laws causeing pain to others need to be flogged.
Note I further state what I mean further down the paragraph
Anyone who commits terrible crimes that causes pain or misfortune to others need to be flogged as one of their punishments.
btw, so that you dont delve into what "terrible" is, I will say that all crimes are terrible.

I'll spare you and not go into why I think breaking a law isn't necessarily a stupid thing :)

This is another one of those proposals that would be better off as an Issue for each nation to decide on.

Proposals like this will not be supported by the more liberal nations and are a waste of time. Durtistan is more than happy for Cosmo Kramerica to engage in whatever it feels appropriate, whether that is stamp collecting or being flogged by leather uniformed authority figures, as long as it restricts these practices to within it's own borders.

Public flogging! We of Letila can't allow it. The state must not be allowed to gain more power.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

I'll spare you and not go into why I think breaking a law isn't necessarily a stupid thing
:evil:

Well in the act, when I refer to "Terrible" I mean it to be interpreted as crimes that all of society would generaly consider appauling..like throwing a rock at a moving cars window while traveling down the highway.

But for you I just simplified it so you wouldnt argue the definition of "terrible", but I guess that attempt backfired

Public flogging! We of Letila can't allow it. The state must not be allowed to gain more power.

And how will you prevent public floggings? Will you give the state the power to intervene, and prevent them by force?

Jig-roh applauds and readily accepts this proposal. Youth today are getting out of control. Gambling, stealing, and vandalizing. Petty fines and jail time is not enough for these young 'rebels'. Flogging is the only true way to bring about discipline.

And how will you prevent public floggings? Will you give the state the power to intervene, and prevent them by force?

If we oppose them, then why would we be doing them?

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

Public flogging! We of Letila can't allow it. The state must not be allowed to gain more power.

Why do you exist in the first place then?

Why do you exist in the first place then?

What do you mean? What does that have to do with opposing flogging.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

Why do you exist in the first place then?

What do you mean? What does that have to do with opposing flogging.

Well, you were saying about not giving the government more power. I know that you are an anarchist and so, I was wondering, why does you nation exist in the first place. Surely, if you an anarchist, there would be no need for a nation.

Nationstates is based on statist assumptions, hence the name. Letila is really a confederation of communities.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

u cant take away freedoms likethat

[quote]And how will you prevent public floggings? Will you give the state the power to intervene, and prevent them by force?

If we oppose them, then why would we be doing them?

I do belive he was refering to non-governmental public floggings, such as those performed by parental units, or possibly by the BDSM community.

As long as both sides concent, it wouldn't be a problem.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

I do not support this. While it may be a non-issue for my state, which has virtually no crime, I think that punishment of any sort, especially public humiliation, is only good as a last resort or quick fix. More resources should be put into creating an environment for the population in which people will not even think about committing crimes. Whether this be strict moral indoctrination or ever-present "big brother" policing, I don't care, as long as it gets the job done. (For the record, neither of these practices are used in P4lladia. P4lladia is like Vulcan - Logic is the law of the land.)

I'm going to state my point shor tand sweet because I got to go.

Public flogging is the only way to show this criminals that crime doesn't pay.

"Leaning comes through pain and suffering."

If a parent tell their kid to be quiet and the child doesn't listen after 2 or 3 times. The parent should spank the child. Now, whenever the child thinks about making noise, he or she will remember the spanking and never do that again.

Now, the extent on flogging. In my opinion, breaking a law, even it is a small law, such as not paying enough at a parking meter, the person should be flogged with a whip. In public. And fined. Why?
1. Teach the person a lesson.
2. The fine can be used for better whips or loans or the military.
3. Teach the public something to be scared about.
4. Amount of whipping should either be decided on the person who caught the criminal or by the importance of the law that was broken.

This is my idea. Argue it if you would like to. Aruging if fun because one can always learn more and more from it. Take a look at different perpectives.

The Capital Flogging Act
A resolution to restrict civil freedoms in the interest of moral decency.

Description: People who are caught committing needless and utterly stupid acts of law breaking (such as robbery) should grant the government the right to choose to publicly flog the lawbreaker. The floggings can be allowed to take place immediately without trial if the person is caught in the act.

------------------------
On a personal note:
I am fed up with people who vandalize, steel, abuse, threaten, rob, defame others, etc.

After I learned that someone dropped a huge rock on the windshield of my parent's van as they were moving along the highway, I realized that these people (probably were kids or teens) need a harsh lesson. They need to be flogged. A friend of mine had his $10 hubcaps stolen from his car twice in his driveway. Sorry but I am fed up. People caught doing these things need a harsh flogging along with what ever punishments they get like community service or jail time, etc.

Anyone who commits terrible crimes that causes pain or misfortune to others need to be flogged as one of their punishments.
----------------------

HOW TO PROPERLY ADMINISTER FLOGGINGS:

All floggings must be approved by two law enforcement officers who do not know each other.

A flogging can be warranted immediately without trial only if it can be proven that the person committed a serious crime. An officer who arrests a person after they are seen in the act of a reckless crime has the authority to recommend a flogging to be approved by another officer.

Floggings may be done in public or in a police station.

The number of lashes can vary on the severity of the crime, but should never exceed 50 lashes.

Floggings may be made to those who are between the ages of 9 and 70 years of age.

Floggings may be administered by a law enforcement officer
using only a belt like flog, which may have strands. The flog may contain only leather and wooden beads. Leather alone is also acceptable.

Flogs must be sterilized before every use.

When the flogging is taking place, the floggings must be monitored by an unrelated Law Enforcement officer who does not know the officer that is administering the floggings.

The monitoring officer must evaluate the administering officer's care, and ensure that the criminal is not being over punished or receives any fatal blows.
The monitoring officer may choose to stop any floggings if he feels necessary.

Any person arrested in a crime that cannot be immediately proven, must have a trial to prove their guilt and warrant a flogging.

Nicely written, although I do have a few points to adress to improve it. Firstly, the proposal appears to require that nations make flogging an option, which infringes on popular sovereignty and deters of more liberal nations (although I do not advocate refraining from making a law just because left-wing nations will oppose it). Consider instead giving a nation the right to use that means of punishment without the threat of international intervention, providing the nation follows the guidelines stated in the proposal.
Secondly, the proposal (wisely) mentions that the officials approving the flogging must not know each other. However, specifiy the definition of "knowing one another" (can they live in the same city, etc.). Also, more importantly, the officials approving the flogging and the (possible) third party administering the punishment must not know the lawbreaker in question, to prevent the possible (and probable) abuse of administrative power. Similarily, neither of the above mentioned parties (excluding the law breakers) cannot have any association with the victim or accusing party.
Lastly, not all "stupid" crimes merit a flogging, therefore each nation implementing, or planning to implement the stated means of law enforcement should establish a committee to decide the crimes for which the government will allow flogging as a sentence. For example, the leader of Dark Cow suggested not paying at parking meters as a crime "worthy" of such extreme punishment. However, please note that this petty crime usually results from negligence, whereas the crimes used as an example- throwing rocks at cars, much more clearly define deliberate sabotage.

While punishment is necessary for crimes (this is obvious to a good leader), it is The Principality of Joshu's opinion that public humiliation is not neccesary on a personal level. As for Civil Disobedience, it is not only tolerated, but encouraged as a way to get one's point across, so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others. However, this is not the point at hand. Thus, The Principality of Joshu does not support public flogging.

Public humiliation most certainly is a reasonable and very viable form of punishment. I dare say it will have more of an impact than a little slap of the hand in private. Punishment on a personal level is more influencial than otherwise. The Oppressed People of Maclund support public flogging.

Flogging is torture plain and simple. I refuse to subjigate my people to torture in any form whatsoever. Jailtime will be sufficent for criminals within the boarders of The Eternal Overmind. As a dictator I do not allow people to vote on thier leaders I choose those who I beleive best suited, but that does not mean I don't take my people's civil rights seriously. They have a right not to be tortured, and you can be assured I will vote against this purposal for the sake of my people.

I'll spare you and not go into why I think breaking a law isn't necessarily a stupid thing
:evil:

Well in the act, when I refer to "Terrible" I mean it to be interpreted as crimes that all of society would generaly consider appauling..like throwing a rock at a moving cars window while traveling down the highway.

But for you I just simplified it so you wouldnt argue the definition of "terrible", but I guess that attempt backfired

I don't think, in a free society, all of society would agree on any one thing. But we digress. I think this would increase crime rather than decrease it. Some people like to be exhibitionists. They would commit crimes just so people could see them get flogged.

We find that stocks and pillories are great public amusements and cut down on jail overcrowding. They also give our grocers a market for overripe tomatoes and cabbages which people love to purchase and toss at the miscreants.

Doesn't "Capital" mean something more serious though? Could you omit that word?

What if you gave a felon the option of a caning or 2 to 5 years in jail? I'll bet many would take the beating. That way they wouldn't lose their jobs, apartments or girlfriends.

on a personal note: a friend studied the arrests made in cases of dropping rocks from overpasses onto cars, and almost all the bad guys were drunken unemployed twenty-something age guys.

I decided to be against it based on your motivation :P

It is exactly your kind of people that made flogging outlawed ;)

The Kuni will shortly be instituing public floggings to assist in controling some of our more pervasive crimes that plague my nation, such as being late for work, having a dissenting opinion of our Great Leader, speeding, and underage drinking. Though we will maintain Death by hanging for Many of our more severe crimes. We shall let you know if it has the desired effect of reducing crime.

Actually we suggest that if that doesn't work , you increase the number of floggings. And if that doesn't work use spikes on the flogs. And ah hell if all else fails I would just suggest capital punishment. One sure way they won't do it again ;).

I know you already have it for the more serious crimes. But I think a line must be drawn and if it works...err well at least feels good to the boss that gets annoyed from the person arriving late, it should count for all crimes, don't you think so too?

But the good thing is......should allowed. I don't mind a bit of freedom in other countries. Who am I to dictate there ways. Is this as counter to a resolution that forbids it however? Does such a resolution exists? Or does it fall under the human rights act?