NationStates Jolt Archive

Fact-Capitalism is the use, and sometimes exploitation of the many to the benefit of the few. (opinion-it's evil)

Fact-TRUE communism, where the government eventually fades out and the PEOPLE rule, seems to be the only type of true freedom.

My idea is, we go from the use of capitalism, which with very few exceptions is used in all states, to communes, with laws regulating what you can do to others but not to yourself. Just an idea, absolutely no thought about implemenation, but hey. Tell me what you think.

Letila, i've seen you rant. Be nice to the capitalists. They're still blinded by cash.

It's Capitalizm, fool! So sayeth Max Barry at the urging of Charles Thiesen. Anyway, in theory, Communism works. So sayeth Homer Simpson. Show me when in history anyone has ever been able to achieve and sustain true Communism. Capitalizm works. Anyway, anyone with a good idea can easily become one of the "few" you refer to, and any one of the "few" could easily be reduced to the level of the so-called "many" in a very short amount of time.

Fact-Capitalism is the use, and sometimes exploitation of the many to the benefit of the few. (opinion-it's evil)

not entirely true, many people have "rags to riches" stories. It is entirely possible to go from on the street to upper class. If this was true, wouldn't there have been some kind of revolution against it? Capitalist countries have large middle classes, and small lower and upper classes. I hardly see that as exploitation.


Fact-TRUE communism, where the government eventually fades out and the PEOPLE rule, seems to be the only type of true freedom.


I believe that you are mistaking "Freedom" with "Equality." Communism, which must be formed through dictatorship (i.e. Socialism [part of Marx's doctrines]) in a real world could never exist (Power struggles and the inherent nature of man will never let it happen). But in the hypothetical system, Communism would bring about a great amount of equality... just not freedom. For example, if my job in the community is worth more than someone elses, i am unable to go "I want more, because i deserve more."


My idea is, we go from the use of capitalism, which with very few exceptions is used in all states, to communes, with laws regulating what you can do to others but not to yourself. Just an idea, absolutely no thought about implemenation, but hey. Tell me what you think.

Letila, i've seen you rant. Be nice to the capitalists. They're still blinded by cash.

Communes... the only way communism would work. But by disbanding one large nation such as the US into small communes, who's to say some of those will become more feudal in nature, and become hostile towards other communes? it'd be liek the middle ages all over again.

I believe that communism is a great system, a utopia, even. But the fact of the matter is that its impossible, because human nature is against it. Capitalism works well because it works around greed, which happens to be a very strong human inherency.

We must also remember that capitalism is in its own right a decently fair system... a person works, and the harder they work, the better a chance for a better life.

I believe that communism is a great system, a utopia, even. But the fact of the matter is that its impossible, because human nature is against it. Capitalism works well because it works around greed, which happens to be a very strong human inherency.

Many, if not most hunter gatherer societies lack capitalism. Greed isn't inherently human. Laziness is the real problem, really.

Capitalist countries have large middle classes, and small lower and upper classes.

The upper class typically has $20,000,000. The middle class typically has $500,000 at most. The lower class typically has $0. $500,000 is closer to $0 than $20,000,000. The middle class is just the part of the lower class that can survive. The US is really 1% upper class and 99% lower class.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.
The state only exists to serve itself.
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and really big butts!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic
of attractive women.

[quote]I believe that communism is a great system, a utopia, even. But the fact of the matter is that its impossible, because human nature is against it. Capitalism works well because it works around greed, which happens to be a very strong human inherency.

Many, if not most hunter gatherer societies lack capitalism. Greed isn't inherently human. Laziness is the real problem, really.


I already said it would work in communes and similar village systems.

Capitalist countries have large middle classes, and small lower and upper classes.

The upper class typically has $20,000,000. The middle class typically has $500,000 at most. The lower class typically has $0. $500,000 is closer to $0 than $20,000,000. The middle class is just the part of the lower class that can survive. The US is really 1% upper class and 99% lower class.



Yeah, this is probably true, but i'll still deny it for no apparent reason^_^.

Yeah, this is probably true, but i'll still deny it for no apparent reason^_^.

Accept the truth. It may hurt, but denying it won't help.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

The upper class typically has $20,000,000. The middle class typically has $500,000 at most. The lower class typically has $0. $500,000 is closer to $0 than $20,000,000. The middle class is just the part of the lower class that can survive. The US is really 1% upper class and 99% lower class.

Okay, yeah, if you redefine "middle class" to mean "lower class," you get a very large lower class. What's your point?

While your numbers strike me as arbitrary, I don't have any of my own to counter them with.

Fact-Capitalism is the use, and sometimes exploitation of the many to the benefit of the few. (opinion-it's evil)

Please. I could make the same argument about communism, or any other government or economic system that's ever existed. The simple fact is that no system is perfect.

Fact-TRUE communism, where the government eventually fades out and the PEOPLE rule, seems to be the only type of true freedom.

Communism, the only system in the world where the government is phased out by taking complete control of every person's entire life. Righto.

Okay, yeah, if you redefine "middle class" to mean "lower class," you get a very large lower class. What's your point?

While your numbers strike me as arbitrary, I don't have any of my own to counter them with.

They're based on common sense. You're going to tell me that the average middle class family has $10,000,000?

Please. I could make the same argument about communism, or any other government or economic system that's ever existed. The simple fact is that no system is perfect.

And the simple fact is that some are better than others.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

They're based on common sense. You're going to tell me that the average middle class family has $10,000,000?

Of all the definitions of "common sense," I never thought I'd see "Knowledge of how much money the richest people in America earn on an annual basis." At least you admitted that your numbers are made up.

And the simple fact is that some are better than others.

Oh, major burn, there. I guess I should admit I'm wrong now.

Fact-Capitalism is the use, and sometimes exploitation of the many to the benefit of the few. (opinion-it's evil)

Fact-TRUE communism, where the government eventually fades out and the PEOPLE rule, seems to be the only type of true freedom.

My idea is, we go from the use of capitalism, which with very few exceptions is used in all states, to communes, with laws regulating what you can do to others but not to yourself. Just an idea, absolutely no thought about implemenation, but hey. Tell me what you think.

Letila, i've seen you rant. Be nice to the capitalists. They're still blinded by cash.
Um, ever heard of Russia or China.
"Fact-TRUE communism, where the government eventually fades out and the PEOPLE rule, seems to be the only type of true freedom." This is basically anarchy. People cannot run thesmselves without any sort of organized system. All communist societies have failed because it will inevitably turn out that there is a rule by the few rulers. Look at Castro. He is not 'equal' to his country. It is impossible to even come close to equality in a communist society.

Didn't you read my post on hunter gatherer societies, LS? The state doesn't really develop until agriculture is used and now that we know that, it's possible to get rid of it.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

Didn't you read my post on hunter gatherer societies, LS? The state doesn't really develop until agriculture is used and now that we know that, it's possible to get rid of it.


Those Hunter Gatherer societies actually use a form of capitolism, not communism. They made trades, and in a way, that's capitolism. Since it's exchanged like currency.

The Fact is this. Socialism failed. It's just one of the world's failures. An Experiment gone bad. Meanwhile, Capitolism has been around for awhile, and is still going strong.

Those Hunter Gatherer societies actually use a form of capitolism, not communism. They made trades, and in a way, that's capitolism. Since it's exchanged like currency.

They hunted and gathered their stuff. They weren't capitalist.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

Do you morons have any idea of what capitalism is?

Capitalism is simply the absence of governmental coercive force except against individuals who initiate coercive force or fraud against other individuals.

Didn't you read my post on hunter gatherer societies, LS? The state doesn't really develop until agriculture is used and now that we know that, it's possible to get rid of it.


Those Hunter Gatherer societies actually use a form of capitolism, not communism. They made trades, and in a way, that's capitolism. Since it's exchanged like currency.

trade is not capitalism. that's silly. capitalism is based on private ownership of the means of production and distribution and wage labor. under capitalism the capitalists are the politically and socially powerful class entirely because they own the means of production and distribution and the fact that wage labor allows them to exploit workers and create an unjust distribution of wealth that favors themselves. hunter/gatherers had none of this. nor did any of the various other social and economic systems people have lived under.

Do you morons have any idea of what capitalism is?

Capitalism is simply the absence of governmental coercive force except against individuals who initiate coercive force or fraud against other individuals.

only to crazy ahistorical libertarians.

It's Capitalizm, fool! So sayeth Max Barry at the urging of Charles Thiesen. Anyway, in theory, Communism works. So sayeth Homer Simpson. Show me when in history anyone has ever been able to achieve and sustain true Communism. Capitalizm works. Anyway, anyone with a good idea can easily become one of the "few" you refer to, and any one of the "few" could easily be reduced to the level of the so-called "many" in a very short amount of time.

Communism only works if you eliminate the human. We are too greedy and too ambitious to stay in our little place in society and make the same amount everyone else does.

It is the belief of our Queen that as long as a system is in place there will be someone who can exploit it, therefore we would not be willing to force any system of government (or absence there of) on any other country.

Desdemona,
UN representative,
The Back New World