NationStates Jolt Archive

There is a proposal on the table poised to enter the queue. "Condemn Racist Nations" will probably pass tonight, unless delegates take a moment to consider the folly of approving it. It's yet another poorly worded, poorly thought out proposal that will most likely be passed by Fuzzy Bunny kind-hearted polically correct sheep.

It's another game mechanics issue that will just screw with national soverignty but have no possible effect on the actual source of the problem. Frisbeeteria has telegrammed the author with the suggestion that anyone voting for this proposal is effectively becoming a racist nation.

Bigotry cannot be banned without destroying free speech, which is an intolerable trade-off. Racists and bigots can be ignored or shunned, but once we start legislating what can and can't be used for " name, motto, national animal, or currency that ridicules a race, religion, or ethnic group", Pandora's Box flies wide open. Who will be the judge? Are Frisbeeterians a recognized religion, and could someone arbitrarily decide to ban us?

Ideally, mods will step in and remove this game mechanics proposal. Failing that, please rally your region to vote AGAINST this pointless proposal.

It is only a game!! Let me have my glory, and I'll let you have yours. I meant government removal. If my proposal does not make it to the general forum...... then i'll reword it, and i hope i'll have your support. Thank you. Peace.

In the last 10 minutes, Al-Muslimeen has started at least five copies of the same topic supporting their proposal. Their position seems to be, "If we can't deal with opposition rationally, attempt to swamp them with multiple new topics."

Frisbeeteria hopes that moderators will remove the redundant duplicates, but failing that advises all delegates and UN members to actually READ this proposal. None of you will see any benefit from the passage of this proposal.

::Edit:: Yes, Al-Muslimeen, it's a game. You should make an effort to learn the rules before you start swamping the UN and the forums with new proposals and topics. This is not your moment of glory. You're just showing your a$$.

Have a Merry Christmas.... and a happy New Year. I support your opposition. It is totally democratic. But why don't you support mine?

You shouldn't be so violent and name calling, and calling me bad things. I am a relgious person. I am tolerant. I have not cursed at you... so please, do not say anything to ridicule me...because then you will cross the line.

I support your opposition. It is totally democratic. But why don't you support mine? Because you're abusing the forums with multiple identical topics.
Because you didn't read the rules and put in a UN proposal that attempts to alter game mechanics.
Because you're promoting politically correct behavior that I abhor. I don't support moronic behavior, I oppose it whenever possible. Seems to me that's my right as a UN Delegate and NationState player. I don't oppose your right to behave in a moronic fashion. I'm just going to devote some of my time and effort to pointing it out to the other players. That's also part of the democratic process. That doesn't cross MY line, your politically correct opinion nonwithstanding.

Happy New Year to you, too.

i support it, but i wish they wouldnt flood forums about it -_-

Condemn Racist Nations

Category: Social Justice; A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.
Strength: Significant

Proposed by: Al-Muslimeen


Description: Fellow members of the United Nations. I ask you all to look at this crucial issue. There are a few nations who wish to cause hatred and injustice toward people of certain races, relgions, or ethnic groups.

I propose that any nation that is found to have a name, motto, national animal, or currency that ridicules a race, religion, or ethnic group, that nation be erased. It is a serious issue. Many of you may think that this goes too far. However, small things lead to big things, and we don't want to see any more hatred in this troubled world. So please support my proposal, for the good of the world.


Approvals: 135 (Al-Muslimeen, Shasta Mountain, 1 Infinite Loop, Shna_wa, Spurland, Aamerricaaa, Scyphia, New Ithilien, Alalalalalah, A Marshall, Heian-Edo, Markodonia, BakerBrown, Rushan, Christopher IV, Cazaran, Spaz Land, Freschzierra, Agnostic Jew Punks, Stefopoly, Corinos, Sulon, Graphdom, Battsylvania, Crossman, Hilligrad, SalLis, Celestial Sprout, Scheelia, Taraguy, Cockey, Qurufin, Gnuistan, Abadan, Jameland, Sukhavati, The Maple Leaf, Monstranian, Pictor Ignotus, Architeuthis, Soltak, Smytheland, Ninjasama, The Basilicus, The Fenix Ouroboros, Ducks in Heat, Vilius, The Infinite Tempest, King Bender, Tekcutnan, Kossaka, Medavia, Doellsylvania, Benlandia, Marijuana Hemp, Intellitech, Schizophonica, The WhiteRose, Darweners, Flea Markets, Xianoshi, Mikes Hope, Hattia, Endolantron, Borogravia Moldavi, Dionalka, Discotequia, Cottonisking, White Lotus Eaters, FireClan, Cherry Cola, Tathan-Otho, Picklerville, HameIin, Greater Canadiana, Pentastar, Kochistan, Footsteps, Tossed Salazad, Felnost, Fig, Delore, NouvelleTerre, Severance, Jontes, Babyxeupho, Squatia, Compaqistan, Benjamin Franklin, Rights and Liberty, Independent Hitmen, CPE1704TKS, The Discordia, Kandi Kids, Xikuang, Pisceslandia, Broughdom, Gregadamous, Abrizza, Feudal Nippon, Deepingdale, Nickalonia, Final Fantasy Addicts, Holy Man, Madrigals, Nazi Fox, Fruitful Stability, Lisalia, Bensum2, Nepherious, Mother Prussia, The Bulgarite, Cresha, Deer, Forkissa, Chronopolis FD, Secluded Sanctuary, His Majesty, Jewy, Hukbalahap, St Anselms land, O Macalroy, Perseity, RussianMafia, St OttO von Habusburg, Westleigh, Aneatha, Auji-Poco, Lord Sky_Elf, The TechnoGeeks, Traegonia, Lolakins, Zen, Nihlopolis II, Tylerville)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 2 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Tue Dec 23 2003

First major problem: This is not a Social Justice proposal. Social Justice increases taxes on the wealthy in establishes social programs to attempt to bridge the gap between the wealthy and the poor. Does this proposal aim to do that? No. This proposal should be filed under Moral Decency.

Second major problem that Frisbeeteria already pointed out: I don't believe the UN has the authority to erase nations.

Third major problem: There is no way to enforce this proposal without forcing some poor soul to go through every motto, checking for violations of those quite vague rules.

Fourth major problem: This is obviously a game mechanics proposal, and the UN doesn't handle those. Unless, of course, you meant that the (nonexistant) UN military should actually go in exterminate a few million people every time their leader makes a slightly racist animal... however one goes about making an animal racist.

Fifth major problem: Redundancy. Refer to the NationStates FAQ (http://www.nationstates.net/pages/faq.html), under Etiquette.

Santin is quite right in the majority of cases - although "some poor soul" already sweeps the UN proposals, so I suppose I could try a motto-sweep sometime. Maybe Salusa could write a script to look for certain words...

But I digress. It was certainly a game mechanics proposal, in that it told the mods how to do their job. Even without that, there was also the "Social Justice VS Moral Decency" issue, so there is no more proposal.

Noble cause, however, and in a slightly different form it might be an interesting one to consider.

Catholic Europe fully supports any proposal that seeks to outcast racist nations.

Racism is a terrible evil and one which we are vehemently opposed to. We welcome this proposal and will therefore not be supporting your opposition to it.

Can we find a constructive way to work with these nations toward common goals? We may be able to develop educational prgrams, student exchanges, cross-cultural events that will help ope the eyes of their citizenry.

After all they must have some concerns for issues of the common good or they would not be in the UN in the first place.

It was certainly a game mechanics proposal, in that it told the mods how to do their job. Even without that, there was also the "Social Justice VS Moral Decency" issue, so there is no more proposal.
Monstranian (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_nation/nation=monstranian) reposted it under a slightly different name:
Condemn All Racist Nations
Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Monstranian

Description: Fellow members of the United Nations. I ask you all to look at this crucial issue. There are a few nations who wish to cause hatred and injustice toward people of certain races, relgions, or ethnic groups.

I propose that any nation that is found to have a name, motto, national animal, or currency that ridicules a race, religion, or ethnic group, that nation be erased. It is a serious issue. Many of you may think that this goes too far. However, small things lead to big things, and we don't want to see any more hatred in this troubled world. So please support my proposal, for the good of the world.

Approvals: 4 (Somoteitbe, Free Minds Enslaved, Kahta, Sulon)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 132 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sat Dec 27 2003
It's exactly the same proposal put forth by Al-Muslimeen (mulitple times), with all the same flaws.

Enodia, would you consign this one to the dustbin of history as well?

Just checking in while I wait on the Christmas pudding.

I'll do a big sweep tomorrow through the entire proposal list. With any luck, I'll have over-indulged today and be in a particularly wounding frame of mind.

We need to attack racism itself.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.
The state only exists to serve itself.
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and really big butts!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic
of attractive women.

No.

The Allied States of Saeder Krupp recognize that racism is an ugly thing. They also recognize the right to express said ugly belief, so long as it does not degrade into violence or other reprehensible acts. The right to free speech is sacred, and Saeder Krupp is completely opposed to any proposal that violates said right.

This proposal will do a poor job against racism. We need to target the problem itself.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.
The state only exists to serve itself.
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and really big butts!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic
of attractive women.

This proposal will do a poor job against racism. We need to target the problem itself.
Many of us agreed with that sentiment, Letila, but is this truly something that can be legislated? Racism is a mindset that is passed from generation to generation, laregely outside the education and political system. How would you go about eradicating it?

[OOC] I'm not trying to flame-bait here - I'm genuinely wondering if there is any way to phrase this to the NationStates UN that could have real consequences, without bringing in irrelevancies to economies or other civil rights. Al-Muslimeen had the right idea, but he blew it in the section I marked below in bold. Does anyone have any suggestions for a way to fix this proposal?
I propose that any nation that is found to have a name, motto, national animal, or currency that ridicules a race, religion, or ethnic group, that nation be erased
How does the UN attack racism without destroying free speech in the process? Or, making the assumption that destruction of free speech is a necessary component of eradicating racism, how do we create a proposal that incorporates those elements accurately into NS game mechanics? I'm new enough here that the arcana of the mechanics still evades me. Assistance would be welcome.

We need to show people the fallacy of racism with better education on the matter.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.
The state only exists to serve itself.
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and really big butts!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic
of attractive women.

The UN could condemn or even sanction a racist regime in its resolutions. The same would obviously go for the general class of "nations with racist currencies/mottos.
The one thing that no resolution can ever do, though, would be to require nation names/currencies/mottos etc to be changed. We as mods do change currencies and mottos where the situation mandates it - and we also delete nations where the name mandates it - but to require it to be done everywhere a problem exists is the source of the game mechanics problem.