NationStates Jolt Archive

the 24th amendment states that "the right of the citizens of the United States to vote in any primary election or other election shall not be abridged" AND AT NO TIME MENTIONS AGE.



AMENDMENT 9



"the enumeration in the constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained bye the people."



this means that the citizens of the united states will not be denied their givin rights. this does not AT ANY TIME mention age



AMENDMENT 14 SECTION 1



"no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privilages or immunities of the citizens of the united states"



this means that none of the states can pass a law that deprives US citizens of their rights and/or privileges. AT NO TIME IS AGE MENTIONED.



CONSTITUTION: ARCTICLE 1 SECTION 2



" The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states"



This means that the citizens of the US have the right to vote on the new members of the House of Representatives. Age is not stated at any time

I have done a great deal of research and, I have come to the conclusion that it would be unconstitutional to deny children the right to vote and participate in the political system of the United States of America. My research has also rendered that almost all children of the age of 12 years or older have the intelligence of comprehending a large amount or all of politics and political views and their opinions are not necessarily based on those of their parents'. In order to maintain the strength of the political system of the united states all children from the age of 12 to 18 shall take an aptitude test to ensure that they have the necessary intelligence to make an educated decision. Just because one has reached the age of 18 years does not, or should not make them more intelligent than one who is of the age of 12 years.

Childern aren't citizens, so their "right to vote" isn't being violated.

And anyway, judging from the people I was stuck with in Junior High, the LAST people I want dabbling in politics are kids. Exactly contrary to your ending statement, they know NOTHING of politics. Or maybe idiots, then kids. Both are roughly as intelligent, one is simply by ignorance.

We of Letila are phasing out our government. In our view, if a child is old enough to take an interest in politics and have political views, they should have a say.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.
The state only exists to serve itself.
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and really big butts!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic
of attractive women.

The argument itself is a valid one, although the references to the US Constitution are moot since the US does not actually exist here. Nevertheless, to answer the substantive question of "should 12-year-olds be allowed to vote?":

The world is an odd place, and nowhere more so when it comes to the law. Most sovereign nations have the concept of the "age of majority" and (in other cases) the age at which you are legally enabled to do things. To take the Enodian example, voting is a right conferred upon the citizen at the age of 18 years, that same citizen is entitled to enter a licensed premises at the same age, while they have legally been allowed to apply for a driver's licence from the age of 17 years.
Now, it is perfectly within the realms of possibility that our hypothetical 18-year-old Enodian may be completely apathetic about politics. In that case, conferring upon them the right to vote on who should be elevated to the Staatsrat and their local Regional- or Gebietsraeter seems ludicrous in the extreme. Likewise, there may be many 18-year-old Enodians who, for religious or health reasons, choose not to take advantage of the legal drinking age. There may also be many 17-year-olds who are manifestly unsafe to drive cars.

The flip side here is that there could well be a highly motivated 12-year-old with strong political views, a great sense of spatial perception and the ability to put away heroic amounts of alcohol at one sitting. While it seems unfair to say "sorry, you can't do any of these things for a few years yet", it stands to reason that the strength of the political views (if not the views themselves) will remain for the 6 years that the child must wait to be able to vote. After all, one's political views are not changed as regularly as one's clothes.

The Enodian education system is also designed to educate the soon-to-graduate student about the political world in preparation for their exercise of the right to vote.
Democracy is best served via an informed electorate, an electorate aware of economic problems or those of foreign policy - or whatever other issues an election is fought on. While there may be 12-year-olds who have read Smith's Wealth of Nations and understand the politics of the United Nations, they would be a considerable minority. To extend the franchise this far to benefit such a minority is a dangerous risk, as the newly-enfranchised group will (in the main) be unaware of the issues in the election.

The argument itself is a valid one, although the references to the US Constitution are moot since the US does not actually exist here. Nevertheless, to answer the substantive question of "should 12-year-olds be allowed to vote?":

The world is an odd place, and nowhere more so when it comes to the law. Most sovereign nations have the concept of the "age of majority" and (in other cases) the age at which you are legally enabled to do things. To take the Enodian example, voting is a right conferred upon the citizen at the age of 18 years, that same citizen is entitled to enter a licensed premises at the same age, while they have legally been allowed to apply for a driver's licence from the age of 17 years.
Now, it is perfectly within the realms of possibility that our hypothetical 18-year-old Enodian may be completely apathetic about politics. In that case, conferring upon them the right to vote on who should be elevated to the Staatsrat and their local Regional- or Gebietsraeter seems ludicrous in the extreme. Likewise, there may be many 18-year-old Enodians who, for religious or health reasons, choose not to take advantage of the legal drinking age. There may also be many 17-year-olds who are manifestly unsafe to drive cars.

The flip side here is that there could well be a highly motivated 12-year-old with strong political views, a great sense of spatial perception and the ability to put away heroic amounts of alcohol at one sitting. While it seems unfair to say "sorry, you can't do any of these things for a few years yet", it stands to reason that the strength of the political views (if not the views themselves) will remain for the 6 years that the child must wait to be able to vote. After all, one's political views are not changed as regularly as one's clothes.

The Enodian education system is also designed to educate the soon-to-graduate student about the political world in preparation for their exercise of the right to vote.
Democracy is best served via an informed electorate, an electorate aware of economic problems or those of foreign policy - or whatever other issues an election is fought on. While there may be 12-year-olds who have read Smith's Wealth of Nations and understand the politics of the United Nations, they would be a considerable minority. To extend the franchise this far to benefit such a minority is a dangerous risk, as the newly-enfranchised group will (in the main) be unaware of the issues in the election.

This is true.. age is the fastest and easiest way to determine maturity. Not foolproof, but what other easier, faster, and cheaper ways are there ?

The Great Nation of Putergeeks believes that only 18 year olds and older should vote.

age is the fastest and easiest way to determine maturity
Of course, at some ages it's also the fastest and easiest way to determine immaturity. :wink:

I don´t think people under the age of 35 should be able to vote...

35 is pushing it...

You know, sit down and look back at your life, you realize that every single year that passed, the way that you think and react and even act changes slightly. Is this maturity? I dunno, but it happens. Do I really want 12 year olds deciding who the leader of my country is? No. Is there an objective standard by which to grade this? No. Are humans inherently objective? No.

So it is very difficult to create a system that will work objectively; in this case, it would be best to work on experience, and experience shows that 12 year old... heck even 14 year olds are not mature enough to vote. Damn it, some 17 year olds aren't mature enough to vote... *shrug*

Therefore.... no. No matter how much I think children should have more say in politics and what happens to them, the right to vote is pushing it.

On a side, some countries have created special considerations in criminal court because they feel that children under the age of 18 are incapable of understanding the full consequences of their actions. So if we pass this right to vote, then the governments would be contradiciting themselves. (Not that I agree with these Youth Criminal Justice Act type laws...)

The Goobergunchian age of suffrage, driving, and entering the military is 16.

Lord Evif, Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder of the DU Region

Yes I agree whit the research that no were the law states and voting age but like many other thinks it is an adult decision and by adult I don’t mean 18 years and older I have the pleasure of working whit people that don’t have a voting age and are berry measure and have other older people that are like kids. Well this takes us no were this is my point it only depends on the person and not the age, I will vote for a resolution the gives this power to the younger group but whit the restriction of having to take a test before bean aloud to vote.

R\ President of the Teracknor Federation

For those of us who have navigated those dangerous shoals, recollection of early teen years calls to mind passion, obsession, grief, rage, exhiliration, all blurred by a surging sea of hormones.

Exciting? Yes.

Reasonable and reliable? Hardly.

For those of us who have navigated those dangerous shoals, recollection of early teen years calls to mind passion, obsession, grief, rage, exhiliration, all blurred by a surging sea of hormones.

Exciting? Yes.

Reasonable and reliable? Hardly.

Exactly.

Children of the world, unite!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.
The state only exists to serve itself.
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and really big butts!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic
of attractive women.

Although many twelve year olds do have the same maturity level as eighteen year olds, allowing teen-aged citizens to vote still undermines the voting system; the probability of student votes influenced heavily by the parents/community either positively or negatively (i.e. teen-agers voting for a political view just to oppose the parent) outweigh the inconvinience of waiting four or six years (some countries consider 16 year olds as legal adults) to vote.

Sorry, repeat (due to server problems). Please disregard.

I'm less than 18 but have a better view of politics than alot of collage students, or at lest what polatics tell us. I think if a 12 yr old shows an understanding of polatics they should vote because we are affected by the desions.

I don´t think people under the age of 35 should be able to vote...

WHY THE HECK NOT, :shock: GEEZE :shock: , 18 YEAR OLDS CAN SMOKE, BUY PORN, GO CLUBBING, OR JOIN THE ARMY, WHY SHOULDN'T THEY BE ABLE TO VOTE!!! I'M COMPLETELY FOR PEOPLE THE AGE OF 12 VOTING!!!

many arguement consist of "well kids don't care about politics" if they don't care then they can simply not vote like many other people do on election day.

many arguement consist of "well kids don't care about politics" if they don't care then they can simply not vote like many other people do on election day.
Which assumes that voting is optional in the nation in question.

Before I (personally, not IC) hit 18, I cared passionately about politics. Had done for several years and still do. I know, however, that I was in a minority being a 12-year-old who actually followed political debate. It's part of the respect for a democratic institution that you leave off trying to enter into it until you can.

(and that makes absolutely no sense)

The Constitution of the United States has no bearing on the operation of the NationStates United Nations. But I'll debate anyway.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

The 24th Amendment does not ensure voting rights for all people -- you missed the end of the clause -- but rather only states that no person shall be denied suffrage because they have not paid their taxes or because they cannot pay a poll tax. You have also misquoted the Amendment in that it only specifies that no person will be denied this vote in elections for federal positions

And you are also mistaken in thinking that voting qualifications are set at the federal level -- each state determines how its own elections are run. There are only a few federal mandates, and among them is the 26th Amendment.

The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.

That and the qualifications to run for federal office are the only times, I believe, that age are mentioned in the Constitution. So, contrary to common belief, voting age in the United States is not set federally -- the only federal requirement is that no state may set its voting age higher than 18. This of course implies strongly that states may set the minimum voting age at 18 if they so choose.

That said, Santin has set the minimum voting age at 16. If someone has the presence of mind to be trusted to operate a piece of heavy machinery such as a car, they can probably be presumed to have the presence of mind to be trusted to vote. Our nation recognizes, however, that not all nations wish to have such a low voting age, and respects the right of all nations to determine their voting procedures -- so long as they have them.

Well, with the argument about 16 year olds being allowed to operate a car, certain nations utilize the graduated licensing system whereby the 16 year old has severe limitations to when and how they can drive.

However, those that say that many 12 year olds have more presence of mind then 18 year olds; you have not yet reasonably responded to the argument that younger teens are not the most responsible or mature people in the world. The bunch that really care about politics is far too much in the vast majority that voting rights should be considered for the vast majority that might somewhat care.

Of course, you always have those that would fudge the vote as well... how many of you have tried to play Broken Telephone with average 13 year olds? It doesn't work because they purposely mess up the message. It would be the same with voting. I'm willing to wait so that those idiots can be kept out of the ballot box.

You have a good point, but being the hard headed idiot i am im still not going to change my ideals. :D

We of insanica have no voting age due to its unenforciblity. Of course our elections barley matter anyway as our canidates do not determine nearly as much as others do.