NationStates Jolt Archive

I have submitted this proposal for consideration by the U.N. Delegation. It is sound and I would appreciate any and all comments upon it.

:P Arm All Airplane Passengers

Category: International Security
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: Danakar

Description: Whereas terrorism and even more so the fear of it have crippled the peace of mind in our communities and nations around the globe, I submit a proposal that will end the need for that fear and the billions of dollars invested in overpriced technology to thwart said fears.

Very simply, all airline passengers over the age of 21 shall be issued a 1-shot, low velocity, .32 caliber derringer upon boarding their plane. No training is needed, for derringers in and of themselves cannot be fired until the hammer is pulled back, and the trigger pulled. This cannot be done accidentally.

Anyone using their derringer for any other reason than stopping a hostile takeover of a plane, shall be considered a terrorist in their own right and will be arrested upon landing and subject to the courts of the land they enter. All derringers will be relinquished upon landing in lieu of attempted terrorism also.

Furthermore, a passenger can refuse to carry their issued derringer, but do so at their own peril. It goes without saying that racial profiling will be necessary. There will be no issuance of derringers to anyone of Arabic, Persian, Afghan, Pakistani, Colombian, Basque, Cuban, North Korean, or Northern Irish origin and citizenship. As much of an infringement as this may be on civil liberties and race relations, the last time I checked, there weren’t any Canadians, Japanese, Tanzanian, Icelandic, Ukrainian, or Costa Rican hijackings! This has been brought upon the restricted groups solely by themselves.

Also, concerns over depressurization are over dramatized. It is rather amazing the amount of a beating a 747 can take and still remain aloft. Do not believe the scenes from the Goldfinger movie of 1964! Ask any pilot. Of course, putting an airtight seal on the cabin door would be one solution, but the cost may be prohibitive to some airlines.

This resolution will immediately put an end to hijackings and the fear of terrorist takeovers of jets worldwide.

If agreed upon, the manufacturing contracts of these derringers of which millions would be needed, shall be given solely to countries whose economies are in shambles. Liberia, Sierra Leone, etc.

If this resolution shall pass, another shall be submitted urging the complete eradication of rape in the modern age. All countries will be encouraged to apply a similiar standard to women who leave their homes. If all females carried a gun by law, rape would be diminished by 95% in the first 6 months alone...... This is not a joke! The gun is not the problem, human nature is. An armed society is a polite society. I urge the passage of this resolution. 9/11 would not have happened had this resolution been in place.

That is one og the silliest ideas i have ever heard. A bullet can go thru the fusalage and decompress the cabin. Also any person could be a terrorist.(terrorist are not just muslims or northern irish you know!!!!)

Bad idea!!!!!

yeah give the terriost a weopen they can bring legally on a plane good idea :wink: . This one do nothing if the terriost find out the just can shot some one they will do sucide bombings.

I was gonna say homie. If you give all the passengers weapons, terrorism is even more likely to happen. Unless it is a Military craft, then the plane is very likely to lose pressure if a bullet happens to go through it. And if you didnt notice, Terrorists assumably have some type of combat training, so they will probably know how to use their weapons much better than some cracker-jack civvie.

This is an absolutely absurd proposal and is definetly not one which Catholic Europe will support.

I hate to be controversial but in such a violent and hostile atmosphere between nations it is vital we make any form of travel safer and better for our citizens i will bebringing this resolution to the attention of Englands U.N delegate. However you have my full support for this notion.
H.M,
Wilhelm the Third
"Für das gute vom Reich"

I have submitted this proposal for consideration by the U.N. Delegation. It is sound and I would appreciate any and all comments upon it.

:P Arm All Airplane Passengers

Category: International Security
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: Danakar

Description: Whereas terrorism and even more so the fear of it have crippled the peace of mind in our communities and nations around the globe, I submit a proposal that will end the need for that fear and the billions of dollars invested in overpriced technology to thwart said fears.



Very simply, all airline passengers over the age of 21 shall be issued a 1-shot, low velocity, .32 caliber derringer upon boarding their plane. No training is needed, for derringers in and of themselves cannot be fired until the hammer is pulled back, and the trigger pulled. This cannot be done accidentally.



Also, concerns over depressurization are over dramatized. It is rather amazing the amount of a beating a 747 can take and still remain aloft. Do not believe the scenes from the Goldfinger movie of 1964! Ask any pilot. Of course, putting an airtight seal on the cabin door would be one solution, but the cost may be prohibitive to some airlines.


(1) No studies ? I think a .32 can probably crack an an airplane window. All there needs to be is one very small hole.

(2) Most people really have not shot anyone. Not as easy as you think. Plus elderly people would never be able to handle it.

(3) A large group takes up most of the plane seats, and you've got a easy hijack.

(4) One drunk passenger, and you're going to have issues. A simple takedown (where there would not have been casualties) would turn into a bloodbath.

You should have strategically placed military individuals sat on the plane carring knives. 10% percent of the passengers should be these military people.

My country fully supports the idea of weapons onboard air craft. It is know that in Rajibiztan we have 50% of internal flight passengers flying armed.

Although our passenger are required only to load their arms with collapseble 9mm ammuntion.

The Empire would like to say that if an airline pilot was armed, it is very possible to miss and break the fuselage and then crash the plane anyways, however, there may be other weapons that would be a better useage in an airliner. Prehaps the new taser weapons or some of the other less-than-deadly weapons could be used abord the aircraft. However, the real problem isn't arming the pilots, it's keeping the pilots and the rest of the passangers safe and not allowing the terrorists to get the weapons on the plane in the first place. This is what the Empire is trying to do currently.

Erm.. A little over the top i think. okay so i get a gun myself. Great. Now who do i shoot? Okay its a good idea for at least a marshal to be armed, with at least a stun gun, or those new electric guns that shoot with wires to the victim, but a gun and bullests at 20 thousand 10 thousand, what ever feet. No. :?

You should have strategically placed military individuals sat on the plane carring knives. 10% percent of the passengers should be these military people.

Knives would do squat against a group of gunmen. And that'd be expensive.

The Empire would like to say that if an airline pilot was armed, it is very possible to miss and break the fuselage and then crash the plane anyways, however, there may be other weapons that would be a better useage in an airliner. Prehaps the new taser weapons or some of the other less-than-deadly weapons could be used abord the aircraft. However, the real problem isn't arming the pilots, it's keeping the pilots and the rest of the passangers safe and not allowing the terrorists to get the weapons on the plane in the first place. This is what the Empire is trying to do currently.

I didn't mention the obvious (that two people could just walk up, open the door and shoot the pilot and co-pilot) cos I assumed the doors to be barred or something.

Amazing. Not only colossally dumb, but racist, too. Well done. :roll:

Oh jeez.

Here we go,

A proposal that promotes racial ignorance

Subtitles: (Wake up, all nations and races contain to an extent at least one extremist group more then capable of using what ever tactics deemed needed to propomote itself and its opinions on the world stage through the use of terror, murder or general anarchy)

A proposal that is just plain stupid, why? Because:

Its easy to say, "oh, that single, little, 32. bullet won't get through the body of the plane, oh, heck no..."

But exactly what aircraft are you thinking of? MAYBE, and *that* is a big maybe, it won't penetrate a 747 body, but what about the smaller 30-50 seater commercial air-traffic? Hmmm, and so what if a terrorist only has one gun on the plane? Who's to say his buddy next to him does not have another, so what are the chances of TWO, or hell, maybe even THREE point blank firings of .32 bullet NOT cracking open a window or slipping a hole into the plane body and sucking dry the cabin of air?

Oh yeah, and lets not forget that your proposing to provide fire-arms to almost anybody, (Temporarily ignoring your racist propoganda) who gets on a flight, so you really want to flood the world with single shot fire-arms, aware that it is almost cerain that at some time any number may be removed through means unauthorised, extreme, deadly? Lovely little assassin tools...

Oh, yeah, what happens when an air marshal is shot and the terrorist gets their gun? Whats that, 16, 17, or more maybe, extra bullets to hoick into screaming passengers or pilot/staff?

And finally, your ignoring that by providing weapons on planes to potential terrorists, your helping them get their way, if the terrorists go postal on a flight,

THEN THEY WIN, THEY CREATE TERROR, RUIN LIVES, KILL, ALL IN THE FECKING NAME OF WHAT-EVER RELIGIOUS/IDEOLOGICAL/POLITICAL POLICY THEY ARE TRYING TO PROPOGATE. AND YOUR THE PERSON PROVIDING THEM WITH THE TOOLS OF THEIR TRADE!

And HOW DARE YOU, claim that 9/11 would not have happened, before that day there was never any true cause for concern in this field of thought, as there was no "major" precedent.

YOU, you cold, immoral sicko, are just trying use the day the western worlds last shreds of true innocence and feelings of safety died, simply to propogate your own racially ignorant, misuided opinion.

For that, we spit on you.

May the worldlet of the U.N. reject you and your ignorance.

A Rep of Komokom On Behalf Of The Komokom Parliment and Ruling Body.

Oh yes, and may I add we will fight this proposal, better to leave the U.N. then suffer any further under the votes and submitions of the ignorant.

No words will truly demonstrate our disgust for your proposal, in that due to the ideas and opinions it embodies.

Depressurization of the cabin would take some time, it would by no means be instant. Anyway, you could just use some highly frangible ammunition which would not go through the attacker, but would mess him up good. I personally think that arming passengers is a great idea because depressurization of the cabin is much better than having a frickin plane crash into a frickin building killing thousands. If a terrorist has a firearm that he has brought on the plane himself, he is sure to shoot the pilots anyway, so arming the pilots would just give them a chance in hell to keep control of the plane. In the unlikely and horrific event that someone gets hit by a bullet going through a terrorist, it would still be better to have one innocent person die than to have everyone on the plane die when the sick terrorist sob's ram it into a government building. In this time of uncertainty, arming citizens is the best thing that we can do. Think about it, if every citizen on an air-craft had a gun, then two terrrorist assholes with box cutters would have to think twice about trying to take down the plane.

P.S. If the terrorist didn't have a gun in the first place, then I can assure youthat a trained pilot with a gun would have a VERY slim chance of losing his gun to a box cutter welding lunatic. Also, reinforced doors are standard on many aircraft, so the pilots would notice the terrorists bashing into it or otherwise trying to compromise it, so they would be ready with firearms pointed at the terrorists when and if they got through the door.

Lte's not forget all the free liquor to go along eith those guns.

That should prove an interesting combination.

Ahh....the power of sarcasm.

Firstly, to those of u with the brain power to actually consider the scientific and sociological ramifications of this proposal rationally (whether you agree or not) - I thank u. As for the remainder, quit freaking out about depressurization. You all watch too many hollywood movies! Geeesh!

And as for the charges of racism, I urge you all to watch "Victory Begins at Home", Bill Maher's HBO special that comes out in January on DVD. Did I say anything about profiling by skin color, nose length, clothing type, food preference, etc?? No! The profiling was national in character. Most people couldn't tell and Indian from a Pakistani, an Uzbek from and Afghan, a Turk from a Syrian, etc. The only meaningful difference as far as this legislation is concerned is that Indians, Turks, and Uzbeks haven't been hijacking planes or supporting international terrorist groups as of late. I misspoke when I said "racial profiling" I admit. I should have said "national" or "common freaking sense" profiling. Those of u with knee jerk reactions and charges of racism need to wake up! Last time I checked, there weren't any Black or Jewish members of the KKK. They were all inbred, ignorant, southern rednecks! Whether you want to admit it or not, race is always an issue, your tree hugger approach"COMICor" accomplishes nothing!

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


I'M SURE YOU HAVE ALLL HEARD THIS BEFORE - "AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY." WELL I CAN THINK OF NO BETTER PLACE I WOULD WANT PEOPLE TO BE POLITE THAN ON A PLANE! CAN U IMAGINE HOW UPTIGHT EVERYONE WOULD BE?? PEOPLE WOULD BE GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO BE NICE TO EACH OTHER. REMEMBER RICHARD REID? REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT MAGGOT?? HE GOT POUNCED ON AND BEAT INTO A BLOODY PULP! HOW'S THIS FOR AN ADDENDUM "comicON"? AFTER WE BLAST SAID RAT BASTARD TERRORIST, WHETHER HE BE SEMITIC, ARABIC, CAUCASIAN, AFRICAN, INNUIT, PAPUA NEW GUINEAN, ASIAN, POLYNESIAN, HISPANIC, OR A MEMBER OF WHATEVER SCREWED UP ARMPIT NATION, ETC............WE THEN COMMENCE TO TOSS HIM OUT OF THE CARGO HOLD OUT INTO THE OCEAN OR FOREST OF THE COUNTRY OF HIS OR HER ORIGINATION - JUST TO MAKE A POINT?? I PROMISE WE WON'T HURT ANY OF YOUR PRECIOUS TREES---------------HIPPIE!! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!!!!!!! MMMMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!!

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


I'M SURE YOU HAVE ALLL HEARD THIS BEFORE - "AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY." WELL I CAN THINK OF NO BETTER PLACE I WOULD WANT PEOPLE TO BE POLITE THAN ON A PLANE! CAN U IMAGINE HOW UPTIGHT EVERYONE WOULD BE?? PEOPLE WOULD BE GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO BE NICE TO EACH OTHER. REMEMBER RICHARD REID? REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT MAGGOT?? HE GOT POUNCED ON AND BEAT INTO A BLOODY PULP! HOW'S THIS FOR AN ADDENDUM "comicON"? AFTER WE BLAST SAID RAT BASTARD TERRORIST, WHETHER HE BE SEMITIC, ARABIC, CAUCASIAN, AFRICAN, INNUIT, PAPUA NEW GUINEAN, ASIAN, POLYNESIAN, HISPANIC, OR A MEMBER OF WHATEVER SCREWED UP ARMPIT NATION, ETC............WE THEN COMMENCE TO TOSS HIM OUT OF THE CARGO HOLD OUT INTO THE OCEAN OR FOREST OF THE COUNTRY OF HIS OR HER ORIGINATION - JUST TO MAKE A POINT?? I PROMISE WE WON'T HURT ANY OF YOUR PRECIOUS TREES---------------HIPPIE!! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!!!!!!! MMMMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Wow.. imagine him saying this with a gun in his hand.. scary. :shock:

Have you not seen Bowling for Columbine?

If I was a terrorist I'd get all my mates and jump on the next plane and hijack it with the guns kindly provided by the airline.

As I'm not a terrorist I wouldn't though.

When I become enlightened dictator of the world, I will set the standard for who is a waste of oxygen or not! A person must be active in enriching their mind through reading, discussion, etc., must be open minded, tolerant, able to self deprecate, agree that all religions are absolute horseshit, understand the role of sarcasm in our universe, understand and appreciate the role of the gun and the right of self defense in society, respect the natural world and his/her place in it, and not be an idiotic piece of goat shit monomaniac terrorist!

Those who are deemed to be in error of any of the aforementioned will be liquidated by me personally and en masse! This will free up resources and rid the world of unnecessary maggotry! I figure that at least 75% of the world will have to be put to the sword........................... Then will you agree that arming all airplane passengers is a good idea?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Depressurization is a serious problem. Even a pinhole leak at high-altitudes would turn into a giant hole.


So the inherent problems

One disgruntled passanger = everyone dead
One Terrorist = everyone dead

Now consider this from the airlines view, every time some one gets the slightly bit angry they lose the investment of an airplane, face lawsuits, and no one will be willing to fly due to the incredible risk.

You want a safe plane? Knock everyone out once they get on the plane. But giving out derringers...

AFTER WE BLAST SAID RAT BASTARD TERRORIST, WHETHER HE BE SEMITIC, ARABIC, CAUCASIAN, AFRICAN, INNUIT, PAPUA NEW GUINEAN, ASIAN, POLYNESIAN, HISPANIC, OR A MEMBER OF WHATEVER SCREWED UP ARMPIT NATION, ETC............
I quite honestly cannot imagine a Papua New Guinean hijacking an airplane. Once they got control, they wouldn't know what to do with it, and the government wouldn't have the funds to get them what they want anyway. It would be a bad idea to just blow his head off because his family would demand loads of compensation, which would last for years and would give you all sorts of headaches.

BTW: Since you singled out Papua New Guinea, have you been there or something?

Yeah, back before World War I, when the Dutch were still hanging around there, I had my head shrunk by an awfully nice guy with an Iron Bar stuck through his septum!

When I become enlightened dictator of the world, I will set the standard for who is a waste of oxygen or not! A person must be active in enriching their mind through reading, discussion, etc., must be open minded, tolerant, able to self deprecate, agree that all religions are absolute horseshit, understand the role of sarcasm in our universe, understand and appreciate the role of the gun and the right of self defense in society, respect the natural world and his/her place in it, and not be an idiotic piece of goat shit monomaniac terrorist!

Those who are deemed to be in error of any of the aforementioned will be liquidated by me personally and en masse! This will free up resources and rid the world of unnecessary maggotry! I figure that at least 75% of the world will have to be put to the sword........................... Then will you agree that arming all airplane passengers is a good idea?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Heh, just try it. :) It's not as if we don't have defenses. While it's true that we are dedicated to pacifism (always have been) you'll still end up wasting your time and money. :)

The Great Nation of Putergeeks does not support this proposal.

:shock: :shock:
Anyone seen the last alien film.
Sucked out of little holes..
Okay so a film, and would never happen? But now theres a hole in the plane, and oh has the terrorist been hit by this bullet or is he still out to get control of the plane?
For argument sake he has been shot. Wippie all ends well???

:shock: :shock:
Anyone seen the last alien film.
Sucked out of little holes..
Okay so a film, and would never happen? But now theres a hole in the plane, and oh has the terrorist been hit by this bullet or is he still out to get control of the plane?
For argument sake he has been shot. Wippie all ends well???

He'd still have less holes than this proposal :)

Why just one shot? How about a whole magazine of ammunition? Better still, how about arming everyone with a Tazer?? Its less lethal.

Why just one shot? How about a whole magazine of ammunition? Better still, how about arming everyone with a Tazer?? Its less lethal.

Whee now that would be fun. Someone write a book about it, maybe some director will buy the rights :) Hey, it happens, ask Max :)

Why just one shot? How about a whole magazine of ammunition? Better still, how about arming everyone with a Tazer?? Its less lethal.
See someone who can see a little sense.. But not everyone.... Just security of some sort.

HOMELAND INSECURITY
Can a bullet bring down an airliner?
Chances of gunfire decompressing cabin 'virtually nil'

Posted: February 15, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

Hollywood has conditioned many Americans to believe that even at extreme altitudes, one bullet hole through the skin of a commercial airplane is enough to cause a massive pressurized explosion with enough force to suck passengers and debris into the cold air outside.

But as the debate continues over whether to allow commercial airline pilots, crew and perhaps even passengers carry firearms during flights, aeronautical engineers and other aircraft experts are working hard to educate the public about the realities of cabin pressure, bullets and aircraft vulnerabilities.

In short, they say, don't believe everything you see on TV.

As Dave Kopel, research director of the Independence Institute, said in a National Review column just days following the Sept. 11 attacks, Hollywood usually fails to "teach real-life lessons about physics."

"There is only one known instance in which a bullet hole in an aircraft frame yanked objects across the plane, expanded and sucked a person out into the sky. That was the James Bond movie 'Goldfinger,'" he said.

In a follow-up story, Kopel said, "The risk of a stray bullet creating a decompression that could cause a crash, which I'd reported to be virtually nil, is apparently even less than that."

Quoting retired Air Force Gen. James Chambers, Kopel points out that the Air Force has plenty of pressurized planes, such as AWACS, which are able to sustain penetration or damage from bullets from enemy fighter-jet machine guns.

"The general said that the worst case would simply require a plane flying at an altitude of about 30,000 feet to hurry down to lower altitudes. If the plane were above 30,000 feet, there would probably be enough breathable air for the pilots to maintain consciousness, even without the air masks," which fall from overhead compartments in the event of a sudden decompression in the cabin, Kopel said.

Aircraft engineers agree the risk of catastrophe caused by a bullet hole at altitude is low.

"First of all, there already is a 'hole' in the aircraft, for regulating the cabin pressure," says 20-year aircraft engineer Dan Todd. "It's called the outflow valve. It modulates to maintain desired cabin pressure in response to signals from a cabin pressure controller, which responds to inputs from a selector panel in the cockpit ? all automatic when it's all working normally."

He added that there is always pressurized leaking past door seals and a few other compartments.

"Remember, the airplane is pressurized by a constant flow of compressed air into the cabin from the engines ? via the pneumatic systems and the air conditioning systems," he said. "If one round, or two or three for that matter pierce the skin, it's not necessarily catastrophic; air will go whistling out the hole, and the outflow valve will close a little further to maintain the desired cabin pressure."

Historians also point out what B-17 pilots and aircrews during World War II knew all too well ? that even at altitude and full of bullet and flak holes, those planes were legendary for staying aloft.

Besides the realities of pressurized commercial air carriers and the physics involved, firearm technology also can play a part in reducing unintended consequences of firing a shot in-flight.

Armed air marshals, since the 1970s, carried Glaser Safety Slug ammunition, which is high-velocity handgun ammunition containing birdshot or "dust shot." It fragments when fired and has extremely low penetrability.

Debate over whether to allow pilots to carry guns comes as the Federal Aviation Administration closed its public comment period on the issue.

I think this is a very good Idea. . . you have my support. . .

HOMELAND INSECURITY
Can a bullet bring down an airliner?
Chances of gunfire decompressing cabin 'virtually nil'

Posted: February 15, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

Hollywood has conditioned many Americans to believe that even at extreme altitudes, one bullet hole through the skin of a commercial airplane is enough to cause a massive pressurized explosion with enough force to suck passengers and debris into the cold air outside.

But as the debate continues over whether to allow commercial airline pilots, crew and perhaps even passengers carry firearms during flights, aeronautical engineers and other aircraft experts are working hard to educate the public about the realities of cabin pressure, bullets and aircraft vulnerabilities.

In short, they say, don't believe everything you see on TV.

As Dave Kopel, research director of the Independence Institute, said in a National Review column just days following the Sept. 11 attacks, Hollywood usually fails to "teach real-life lessons about physics."

"There is only one known instance in which a bullet hole in an aircraft frame yanked objects across the plane, expanded and sucked a person out into the sky. That was the James Bond movie 'Goldfinger,'" he said.

In a follow-up story, Kopel said, "The risk of a stray bullet creating a decompression that could cause a crash, which I'd reported to be virtually nil, is apparently even less than that."

Quoting retired Air Force Gen. James Chambers, Kopel points out that the Air Force has plenty of pressurized planes, such as AWACS, which are able to sustain penetration or damage from bullets from enemy fighter-jet machine guns.

"The general said that the worst case would simply require a plane flying at an altitude of about 30,000 feet to hurry down to lower altitudes. If the plane were above 30,000 feet, there would probably be enough breathable air for the pilots to maintain consciousness, even without the air masks," which fall from overhead compartments in the event of a sudden decompression in the cabin, Kopel said.

Aircraft engineers agree the risk of catastrophe caused by a bullet hole at altitude is low.

"First of all, there already is a 'hole' in the aircraft, for regulating the cabin pressure," says 20-year aircraft engineer Dan Todd. "It's called the outflow valve. It modulates to maintain desired cabin pressure in response to signals from a cabin pressure controller, which responds to inputs from a selector panel in the cockpit ? all automatic when it's all working normally."

He added that there is always pressurized leaking past door seals and a few other compartments.

"Remember, the airplane is pressurized by a constant flow of compressed air into the cabin from the engines ? via the pneumatic systems and the air conditioning systems," he said. "If one round, or two or three for that matter pierce the skin, it's not necessarily catastrophic; air will go whistling out the hole, and the outflow valve will close a little further to maintain the desired cabin pressure."

Historians also point out what B-17 pilots and aircrews during World War II knew all too well ? that even at altitude and full of bullet and flak holes, those planes were legendary for staying aloft.

Besides the realities of pressurized commercial air carriers and the physics involved, firearm technology also can play a part in reducing unintended consequences of firing a shot in-flight.

Armed air marshals, since the 1970s, carried Glaser Safety Slug ammunition, which is high-velocity handgun ammunition containing birdshot or "dust shot." It fragments when fired and has extremely low penetrability.

Debate over whether to allow pilots to carry guns comes as the Federal Aviation Administration closed its public comment period on the issue.

This would be great if we all used Air force planes :) And still there'd be the issue of a group hijack, or a seriously drunk passenger causing a bloodbath. Just because you know how to use a gun doesn't mean everyone does.

from http://www.aircraftbuyer.com/learn/train10.htm :

"If you were to lose pressurization suddenly, your priorities would be clear. In a business aircraft, you have a small fraction of the time to respond to the incident compared to pilots of an airliner, because of the relatively small cabin air volume escaping from the pressure vessel, according to data compiled by the FAA's Civil Aeromedical Institute (CAMI). Moreover, you're probably cruising at a considerably higher flight level than most airliners, increasing the severity of the problem."

Explosive decompression suspected in some crashes :

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/Geek/geek991101.html

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/stewart_cabinpressure991026.html

http://www.brantacan.co.uk/cracks.htm

Maybe the plane won't blow up, but the captain will pass out. Then what ? :)

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3039583.stm :

"A slug from a .45 might well pass through a human body and the metal airframe "like a blowtorch through butter", but the small hole in the fuselage would only slowly leak air from the high pressure environment inside the cabin into the lower pressure atmosphere outside.

But even this kind of decompression could rob passengers and crew of oxygen. In 1998, an undramatic loss of cabin pressure through a cracked door caused the captain of a UK-based airliner to pass out when he failed to fit his emergency oxygen mask in time."

Use frangible ammunition, and your problems are solved. Enough said.

Gee...let's see.....the minute chance of depressurization of the plane....or the highly probable chance that some crazy terrorist mofo is going to crash the plane into an important building slaughtering thousands of innocent Americans....l

And as for the charges of racism, I urge you all to watch "Victory Begins at Home", Bill Maher's HBO special that comes out in January on DVD. Did I say anything about profiling by skin color, nose length, clothing type, food preference, etc?? No! The profiling was national in character. Most people couldn't tell and Indian from a Pakistani, an Uzbek from and Afghan, a Turk from a Syrian, etc. The only meaningful difference as far as this legislation is concerned is that Indians, Turks, and Uzbeks haven't been hijacking planes or supporting international terrorist groups as of late. I misspoke when I said "racial profiling" I admit. I should have said "national" or "common freaking sense" profiling. Those of u with knee jerk reactions and charges of racism need to wake up! Last time I checked, there weren't any Black or Jewish members of the KKK. They were all inbred, ignorant, southern rednecks! Whether you want to admit it or not, race is always an issue, your tree hugger approach"COMICor" accomplishes nothing!

:shock: Oh, look mommy, a hipocritty, or is it a "just plain liar"?

Ah, right... so "nation" profiling is like... not some kind of discrimination? So saying, "Your from this other country and as such don't have the same rights", Isn't that racist?

Buddy, if there was "common sense profiling" you would not be going anywhere near a gun...

A Rep of Komokom

Use frangible ammunition, and your problems are solved. Enough said.

:shock: Oh, look mommy, a gun-nut! Can we keep him?

My preferance being locked up?

A Rep of komokom

When I become enlightened dictator of the world, I will set the standard for who is a waste of oxygen or not! A person must be active in enriching their mind through reading, discussion, etc., must be open minded, tolerant, able to self deprecate, agree that all religions are absolute horseshit, understand the role of sarcasm in our universe, understand and appreciate the role of the gun and the right of self defense in society, respect the natural world and his/her place in it, and not be an idiotic piece of goat shit monomaniac terrorist!

Those who are deemed to be in error of any of the aforementioned will be liquidated by me personally and en masse! This will free up resources and rid the world of unnecessary maggotry! I figure that at least 75% of the world will have to be put to the sword........................... Then will you agree that arming all airplane passengers is a good idea?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Oh goody, and this guy runs a nation, albeit a simulated one? Double power to my common sense comment.

A Rep of Komokom.

Yeah, back before World War I, when the Dutch were still hanging around there, I had my head shrunk by an awfully nice guy with an Iron Bar stuck through his septum!

:shock: Oooo, wow, sarcasm, albeit poor!

A Rep of Komokom, fighting this ding, dong, DUMB proposal through my own almost limitless Big Bag of Nasty Comments and Pointed Remarks (Extra Pointy Variety)

In case I don't get back online soon, I would just like to say Happy - Christmas, and any other religious/non-religeos holiday to you all, except the gun-nut behind yonder proposal.